This comic is barely D&D related anymore

[ti'esar]

Hey now. We don't need to get into bashing other strips to answer the basic questions here:

Has OOTS become less focused on gaming jokes? Demonstrably, yes.

Has it dropped those jokes entirely? No.

Has this made it worse? That's up to the individual, but from the looks of this thread, the answer is a resounding "no".

[ORione]

I just wanted to share this bit of information on the front of my salt dispenser:



its just as relevant as your quote... probably more since this is written 2 years ago and thus more recent then the FAQ

What language is that? What does it say?

[Tanuki Tales]

If that's what you want, try Nodwick. Try 8 bit theater. There are countless comics that have random gaming related jokes. Thankfully, OotS is not one of them (anymore).

Eh, only on page 1 and while I don't agree at all with the OP, I don't really agree with your opinion there and find it a wee bit offensive. Especially since I'm just as much a fan of Nodwick as Order of the Stick and I almost as big a fan of 8 Bit Theatre.

I mean, they're not the same kind of webcomic but that doesn't mean you can use that kind of insulting tone when comparing them. They're different and have a different intended reader base.

Edit:

[quote]

Hey now. We don't need to get into bashing other strips to answer the basic questions here:

Fully up to date on the thread...so..yeah...this please.

Just because you think the OP and his supporters are wrong doesn't mean you need to act Elitist over OotS.

And yes, I say Elitist. I've seen bashing of four different comics/webcomics over the course of this thread that wasn't necessary or called for at all.

[FatJose]

I don't think we've had a single D&D related joke since the cat killed a commoner about 50 strips ago.

The Commoner vs. Cat Joke was in#780.
D&D jokes/references from #781-831

• - Reference to Elves' spot check
• - Bugsby's Cat Retrieving Hand
• - Alignment joke about Belkar and the Cat evening out to Neutral together.
• - Enor throws a spear and it's cost is factored in the profits. (Matching the price of a SRD shortpear. Not exactly what made the joke funny but a nice attention to detail)
• - "Biggest Dump since Elan's Intelligence Score"
• - Thog is pretty much a Perpetual Running Half-Orc Joke
• - Good old fashioned D&D wizard brawl.
• - Thog mocks Roy's high Int and makes a case for Putting all points into Strength
• - Epic Battle is Epic of THog apparently raging for the first time.
• - Wizard Brawl continues with ZZ'dtri (a parody of a famous D&D character) continuously countering V with a list of his items and feat selections.
• - Plane Shift used to take V to the elemental plane of Ranch Dressing.
• - Surprise Cat with Giant's Belt Attack
• - Unorthodox Celestial Creature Summoning Action.
• - Copyright+Rules Lawyers/Flumphs callback
• - Animal Empathy joke with Belkar and Scruffy
• - Knowlege (Architecture and Engineering)
  
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  Completely unrelated. I've played NWN with a fighter with 18 Natural Int. The build works surprisingly well.
• - Durkon unsuccesfully calls for Thor's aid.
• - Whispering the use of Sense Motive
• - Goblin Adventuring Party
• - Joke about the humor of Paladins
• - RedCloak and his running gag of using elementals made of actual elements.
• - Redcloak's increased power shown through his use of higher level spells.

I left out a lot of stuff. Mostly the shout outs to spells, magic item use and whatnot. Though, I put down multipage sections as single examples. Mostly these were the serious battles where references to spells or special abilities were called out by name or used more for utility to get a laugh.

Hey now. We don't need to get into bashing other strips to answer the basic questions here

Yeah, I know. >.>

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I have nothing against D&D or Dm of the Rings or..whatever that other one is called. I notice people like referencing it and that's fine. It justhas never been my cup of tea any time that I've come across it. What I really don't like is the comparison that someone who is making an effort to have a funny and creative story with original art should "try better" and be "more like" a webcomic who's set up is a series of screen caps of established and beloved franchises with jokes about an established and beloved P&P gaming ruleset.

Doesn't help that the first time in a long time I check on that comic again that joke that immediately jumped at me wasn't funny and a Lethal Weapon reference that Family Guy did 3-5 years ago and it wasn't funny then either. And the re-rolling joke isn't funny. It's just pointing out that "Yes, people re-roll when their character dies." The part where he "didn't" squeal on the Republic was funny though.

[MoonCat]

What language is that? What does it say?

Dutch! "Purely natural Mediterranean sea salt, with mill" literally.

(I don't actually speak enough Dutch to know that. My dad and I are Dutch though, and I recognized it and asked him to translate. (Because I'm silly like that. And he's fluent.))

[Flame of Anor]

• - Epic Battle is Epic of THog apparently raging for the first time.

Actually, he raged in the Cliffport prison.


Anyway, I'd also like to second the "don't bash other webcomics" sentiment. It's not helpful, and it just irritates people who like them.

[ti'esar]

long list of D&D references in the last 30 strips

I should note that one of the points people are making is that the comic is still plenty related to D&D - I'm not sure even Ancano disputes that anymore. The question is whether there's far less D&D jokes.

[FatJose]

I should note that one of the points people are making is that the comic is still plenty related to D&D - I'm not sure even Ancano disputes that anymore. The question is whether there's far less D&D jokes.

Almost the entire list can be considered jokes. As I said under the list. I guess it is a bit redundant to say "D&D jokes/references" since "D&D jokes" already tell you that they reference D&D. I left out a lot of stuff because they couldn't at all be seen as jokes by themselves. Nale using an Enervation wand for instance. Though...maybe the one where Tarquin sees Nale with the Trueseeing ring can be considered a joke. I know I laughed at that.

[Flame of Anor]

Almost the entire list can be considered jokes. As I said under the list. I guess it is a bit redundant to say "D&D jokes/references" since "D&D jokes" already tell you that they reference D&D. I left out a lot of stuff because they couldn't at all be seen as jokes by themselves. Nale using an Enervation wand for instance. Though...maybe the one where Tarquin sees Nale with the Trueseeing ring can be considered a joke. I know I laughed at that.

Ah, but the thing is that mostly what we have in the list is jokes involving D&D rules, not jokes at the expense of D&D rules. I'm totally cool with that, but that seems to be what ancano's missing.

[FatJose]

Ah, but the thing is that mostly what we have in the list is jokes involving D&D rules, not jokes at the expense of D&D rules. I'm totally cool with that, but that seems to be what ancano's missing.

So you mean...
What's the deal with Goblins? The manual says they're small but they can move around like they were medium. Make up your mind! Goblins must be ridiculously lanky. Maybe goblin legs "literally" go all the way up. During playtesting the Goblin Favored Class used to be Rockette.

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Boo!

Thank you! I'm here all week.

[Porthos]

Ah, but the thing is that mostly what we have in the list is jokes involving D&D rules, not jokes at the expense of D&D rules.

In that case, we have the Osmium Elementals, just a couple of strips ago.

It may be a running gag, but it's still a gag at the expense of D&D rules (the definition of elemental).

ETA: And if you don't like that, I give you the:

Easy as taking Apocalypse Candy from a doombaby, which is mocking, yet again, the uptight reputation of Paladins in D&D. OK, that's a running gag as well. But at least it was a fresh take on it.

[TriForce]

Dutch! "Purely natural Mediterranean sea salt, with mill" literally.

(I don't actually speak enough Dutch to know that. My dad and I are Dutch though, and I recognized it and asked him to translate. (Because I'm silly like that. And he's fluent.))

exactly ^^ hey i already said it came from my salt dispencer, i hope you didnt expect some high literature :P

[Cizak]

There are countless strips that don't really further the story or could have been combined with others to a single strip. Often after reading the newest strip I'm like "Well, that wasn't really satisfying, maybe the next strip gets better." And the fact that we have to wait days, if not weeks, for a new strip just emphasizes this feeling.

Maybe you should try waiting for the books to be released instead of reading it as it updates?

There are other comics out there that achieve both telling an ongoing story and still being funny nearly every single strip, while being updated on a regular (if not daily!) basis (right now I'm thinking of Darths and Droids, perfect example IMO).

A very poor example. The plot in that comic isn't made up by the guy making the comic.

But it could have been told in a lot less strips and since the strips are not that funny most of the time (mind you, funny's always subjective!) the long waiting-time isn't really justified any more.

Although of course every author wants to keep his/her story going longer.

[Thidrek]

Maybe you should try waiting for the books to be released instead of reading it as it updates?

That wouldn't work either. I don't own any of the books but I had the chance to read SoD and wasn't overly impressed, at least not that much that I'd spend so much money to get a copy shipped over here. The delay in updating isn't really the problem but it makes it worse.

A very poor example. The plot in that comic isn't made up by the guy making the comic.

In fact the plot IS made up by the author and one could argue that it's even harder to write a plot that has nothing to do with the movie itself. But we don't have to nitpick here. There are countless other strips out there, let it be LfG or QC (which is in fact being updated 5 times/week).

Although of course every author wants to keep his/her story going longer.

Which doesn't mean that he "should" do so. I read many a book that could have been half as thick as it was and it would have been better.

Be it as it may, everybody is entitled to have his own opinion wheter he likes the change or not. I don't like it and I've got my reasons for it which I stated above. No one has to agree with me and I in no way think that I am "right" about this (one can't be!). But I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that way. In fact most of the people I recommended OotS to stopped reading after a while or just check back occasionally. And they all told me that the reason for this is that it gets boring after a while.

If Rich is happy with the way his comic evolves and if he can make a good living out of it, then my best wishes to him. It's just not working for me and that's kind of sad, but you can't make it right for everyone.

[Cestrian]

I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that way. In fact most of the people I recommended OotS to stopped reading after a while or just check back occasionally. And they all told me that the reason for this is that it gets boring after a while.

If Rich is happy with the way his comic evolves and if he can make a good living out of it, then my best wishes to him. It's just not working for me and that's kind of sad, but you can't make it right for everyone.

Rich has just had nearly $200,000 dollars promised to him to buy books. Suffice to say he's kept enough people on board for it not to hurt him.

[Ninja Dragon]

I started reading this back in 2004 (comic 113), and back then, the only way you found out about the comic was through D&D. I don't think it was odd to assume that a large number of readers started reading this comic because of D&D (Rich himself admitted he broke out of the pack because of it).

But I guess most of the other oldschool readers stopped reading/posting because of the new direction Rich took OotS in. Ah well, times change I guess. We orthodox OotS fans are clearly in the minority compared to the reformists.

I have been reading this comic since it was on strip 720 or so. It made me get interested in D&D enough to start reading Darths and Droids, and Goblins. And I'm looking for a group to play tabletop RPGs, since I've never played them before and these comics made me want to.

I don't know what an orthodox OotS fan is, but it sounds very boring. How fun can be a story/game without plot?

[Kish]

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I have nothing against D&D or Dm of the Rings or..whatever that other one is called. I notice people like referencing it and that's fine. It justhas never been my cup of tea any time that I've come across it. What I really don't like is the comparison that someone who is making an effort to have a funny and creative story with original art should "try better" and be "more like" a webcomic who's set up is a series of screen caps of established and beloved franchises with jokes about an established and beloved P&P gaming ruleset.

Doesn't help that the first time in a long time I check on that comic again that joke that immediately jumped at me wasn't funny and a Lethal Weapon reference that Family Guy did 3-5 years ago and it wasn't funny then either. And the re-rolling joke isn't funny. It's just pointing out that "Yes, people re-roll when their character dies." The part where he "didn't" squeal on the Republic was funny though.

This is particularly ironic since the jokes you refer to as not being funny when you just drop in hinge on familiarity with the character involved.

[ti'esar]

But I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that way. In fact most of the people I recommended OotS to stopped reading after a while or just check back occasionally. And they all told me that the reason for this is that it gets boring after a while.

Ah, ye olde "there are lots of people who agree with me and just can't say so for themselves" ploy - common to all forms of internet argument.

Now, I have no way of knowing with absolute certainty how true this is, and it's quite possible that vast droves of readers have drifted away as the comic slowly changed focus. But until some more of them speak up, all I have to go on is the evidence I can see with my own eyes - such as the fact that the ongoing Kickstarter drive has just met five goals in as many days. This is not something you see with a comic which has alienated its readers. And then, of course, there's this thread and the picture it presents of people's opinions - not one of a dissatisfied fanbase.

I'm sure there are people you know, and others you don't, that don't like the direction OOTS has gone in. But I am skeptical in the extreme that they are anywhere near a majority of the readers this comic has or has ever had.

[FatJose]

This is particularly ironic since the jokes you refer to as not being funny when you just drop in hinge on familiarity with the character involved.

Not seeing how that's ironic. Could you explain?

Anyway, the thread title itself states the comic is not D&D related anymore. There is absolutely no truth to that. Sure, it can be nitpicked whether we're talking about referenced or jokes specifically but the thread title is just wrong as is. Also, we're at 830 strips. Why would you be commenting on this now? This might have been an observation to make way back in the 200's but now that the comic's already been plot driven for several years?

[Gullintanni]

I'm sure there are people you know, and others you don't, that don't like the direction OOTS has gone in. But I am skeptical in the extreme that they are anywhere near a majority of the readers this comic has or has ever had.

I would assume it more likely that most readers who are familiar enough with OotS to make the judgement that it has moved away from jokes based around D&D rules minutiae are readers who are generally satisfied with the way the comic has evolved.

The rest of those who casually glanced at OotS and moved on were not dissuaded from reading by the comics' evolution, but by the fact that they just never enjoyed the comic that much in the first place. Which is fine, really. No comic//story//film//music//media will appeal to everyone.

But judging by the fact that the forum is consistently at the point of saturation with regular traffic, the Kickstarter drive, and the fact that Rich is still here 800+ comics later, even despite an irregular update schedule suggests to me that people are, generally speaking, sticking around.

[Ancalagon]

I have a quick question: Is the initial post bitching the comic will lose the "majority of readership" about the comic that just raised 200.000$ in five days?

I know the thread was opened before the kickstarter went online but I think the number over here pretty much puts a gun on this discussion's head and pulls the trigger.

Whatever has happened to the direction of the comic since the start and whether if someone personally thinks that is good or bad, I doubt the problem that some sort of "majority" does not like it has been proven to be a complete non-issue.

It is interesting my gaming has went the same direction. I do not bother about the rules. If they help, fine. But let's not let them stand in the way of the actual game. It's the same here. You see where it's based on but what it is based on is not the actual thing it is about.

Your life is based on breathing but it really is not about that. It's the same with how I think D&D should be played or how this comic here is handling it.

[Flame of Anor]

In that case, we have the Osmium Elementals, just a couple of strips ago.

It may be a running gag, but it's still a gag at the expense of D&D rules (the definition of elemental).

ETA: And if you don't like that, I give you the:

Easy as taking Apocalypse Candy from a doombaby, which is mocking, yet again, the uptight reputation of Paladins in D&D. OK, that's a running gag as well. But at least it was a fresh take on it.

Hey, I'm not saying that there aren't any jokes at the expense of the D&D rules, nor that I'm unsatisfied with however many there are.

[leakingpen]

The FAQ hasn't been updated since 2005. The comic evolved. Kindly get over it?

Also, there are still plenty of gaming jokes.

as the two of you have the same avatar, for a moment I thought you were arguing with yourself.

[Smolder]

Okay, so we've reduced Arcano's argument to "there aren't enough jokes at the expense of the D&D 3.5e rule set"

As the Giant has pointed out numerous times, it makes less and less sense to base a comic on that premise when 4e and 5e are the rule sets people are using anyway (or 1e if you're hardcore like that).

It's like complaining that 8-bit Theatre doesn't make enough jokes about the low resolution monsters in Final Fantasy (1) on the NES.

They can't, there isn't enough space between all the Fighter-is-Dumb and Black-Mage-is-Annoyed-By-Fighter jokes and Abbott and Costello style misunderstandings.

[Smolder]

How about this:

From now on, all characters in the comic must shout out their die rolls in combat like first-time roleplayers!

"9."
"14!"
"3."
"18! Hah! I killed you!"
"Crap, I'm dead! Hrk!"

[Cizak]

In fact the plot IS made up by the author and one could argue that it's even harder to write a plot that has nothing to do with the movie itself. But we don't have to nitpick here. There are countless other strips out there, let it be LfG or QC (which is in fact being updated 5 times/week).

What? How? Granted I only read half of it, but I'm pretty sure at least the first half's plot was made by George Lucas, not the author of Darths & Droids.

Be it as it may, everybody is entitled to have his own opinion wheter he likes the change or not.

Never said you weren't. (Not trying to to sound grumpy.)

[ThePhantasm]

What? How? Granted I only read half of it, but I'm pretty sure at least the first half's plot was made by George Lucas, not the author of Darths & Droids.

The Darths & Droids strip loosely uses the characters, places, and events of the movies. There are some similarities but largely there is an entirely different in-game plot that is in fact quite radically different from that of the movies.

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One example: in Darths and Droids the Sith are just a myth and never really existed. Palpatine is a goodly character and not a corrupt schemer.

One of the reasons I still enjoy Darths and Droids is because it doesn't just make D&D jokes but also has crafted an intricate plot that uses the imagery of the movies to craft an entirely new story. It is really quite cleverly written and well planned out in advance.

[ferrodoxin]

There are only so many adventuring cliches, so many dice-based illogical conclusions, so many puns with gaming related terms that can be done.

831 strips focused on jokes about gaming rules....
I'm sure that would not be nauseatingly repetitive at all

[Ancalagon]

One of the reasons I still enjoy Darths and Droids is because it doesn't just make D&D jokes but also has crafted an intricate plot that uses the imagery of the movies to craft an entirely new story. It is really quite cleverly written and well planned out in advance.

One of the reasons I *really* enjoy it is how they even made a very good story from Episode I - III. Ok, it has not much common with the movies anymore but I guess that is what you have to do if you want to turn that pain into something good. They succeeded.

[Flame of Anor]

One of the reasons I still enjoy Darths and Droids is because it doesn't just make D&D jokes but also has crafted an intricate plot that uses the imagery of the movies to craft an entirely new story. It is really quite cleverly written and well planned out in advance.

Exactly. The strip could be the poster child for Alternative Character Interpretation.

I mean,

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Dooku hopelessly standing alone against all of the evil machinations (plus being French)? General Grievous being the insane, cyborgified Chancellor Valorum? Anakin being a complete evil mastermind? Brilliant!