OOTS #830 - The Discussion Thread

[Tobimaro]

Now that is how a villain should act. My hat's off to Redcloak. Now, if only he can keep up the deception and control Xykon for a little bit more.

There were a few crack theories about how she was alive.

Nope. She's lunch.

[CN the Logos]

So what is going to happen to the rest of her wights, then? Certainly there were more then just the four we saw here.

There is actually an amusingly easy to set up scenario in D&D 3.5 called the wightocalypse that might happen in situations such as these. See, most members of the PC races only have one level, and if you ever have negative levels equal or greater than your number of levels you die and become a wight. If a wight killed you this way, you return to unlife as a wight much faster (within six to twenty-four seconds). A single wight can deal one negative level to a target per round. Assuming a couple of wights find themselves in the middle of a crowded city with no adventurer types around to stop them, things get ugly fast.

In practice, high level clerics can command or destroy wights with nearly no effort, and that undead-centric sourcebook I mentioned before add rules for them starving if they don't find someone new to drain on a regular basis, but it's still something that needs dealing with. I can't recall if intelligent undead continue to fulfill the last wishes of the being that created them after that being is destroyed, but I don't think they're compelled to.

...If that's right, it means Redcloak's got some cleaning up to do.

[xyzchyx]

In pen and paper games, the person playing the caster is expected to formulate his or her wish, and the DM is expected to wring and twist the wording of the wish to its fullest potential while staying technically within the limits.

Not at all. Wishes are only twisted in that way when they are being granted by a malicious entity (devils are particularly notorious for this), or sometimes if they are being granted by someone who is only granting them out of obligated servitude.

A wish spell, being 9th level, and among the most powerful magic that ordinary spellcasters can summmon, quite literally warps reality around the caster's desires, and accomplishes whatever effect desired, to the extent that a DM feels that a 9th level spell could accomplish the effect. The caster himself is shaping the effect of the spell, so it would stand to reason that under ordinary circumstances, there would be no twisting of the wording of any wish. Certainly going by the rules, there is absolutely no obligation on the part of a DM to twist the wish in such cases. The only time it should ever be an issue is when the DM feels that the wish is particularly selfish, excessive, or potentially unbalancing.

[The MunchKING]

Except he's not even really clever in that regard. His go to ninth-level spell is Meteor Swarm, which is a bit of an inside joke among D&D players on account of it appearing really flashy while actually being one of the worst spells of its level. It screams, "I like blowing things up and setting them on fire, but have little patience for tactics beyond shooting things until they die."

I though his go-to spell for LIVING things was energy Drain. It was just Undead (like his Dragon) and Force constructs (Like V's Bigsby's Hands) that he blew up with Meteor Swarm.

[skaddix]

I guess it'll depend on how curious Xykon is about the ritual, and how paranoid he is. He obviously has doubts about it, and Tsukiko is the only caster he can trust to analyze it. Not to mention, unless Redcloak creates a perfect cover-up, he's going to be suspicious that she disappeared a few days after he got her to look at the spell.

So... can anyone estimate how badly a Wish scroll (at least 28,825GP) would hurt an epic mage's purse strings? Also, am I correct in assuming that casting Wish from a scroll won't cost the mage any XP?

Even if it hurt his purse I am pretty sure Azure City had to have at least one vault filled with gold that could be used.

[homeslice]

I didn't have much connection to Tuskiko. Sad way to go, though.

On the other hand,

once again Rich shows how good he is at making believeable characters and making emotional scenes just with 2D stick figures.

Bravo

[skaddix]

I didn't have much connection to Tuskiko. Sad way to go, though.

On the other hand,

once again Rich shows how good he is at making believeable characters and making emotional scenes just with 2D stick figures.

Bravo

True he gets a lot of depth with those faces.

[thubby]

from the rule books

Any humanoid slain by a wight becomes a wight in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the wight that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life.

assuming it takes more than 4 rounds to masticate a corpse beyond functioning, tsukiko is still potentially in this.

provided the giant cares to stick the rules here.

[CN the Logos]

I though his go-to spell for LIVING things was energy Drain. It was just Undead (like his Dragon) and Force constructs (Like V's Bigsby's Hands) that he blew up with Meteor Swarm.

Ah, you're right, he uses that one a lot too. I will say that his uses of Meteor Swarm stuck out more to me because he's always seemed to really enjoy it, as far as I can tell. Regardless, my main point was that he's a classical blaster mage, and doesn't seem to have nearly as much capability with regards to utility outside that context. Seriously, thirty years and he's only just now thinking, "Hey, I made my second-in-command kill his brother, maybe he's got a plan to screw me over at the end of all this?" Either he's incredibly arrogant, foolish, or both.

from the rule books


assuming it takes more than 4 rounds to masticate a corpse beyond functioning, tsukiko is still potentially in this.

provided the giant cares to stick the rules here.

Then again, they might just keep eating anyway.

[Ash_Gazn]

I think this makes Redcloak the Dragon-in-Chief

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../DragonInChief

[Wanderer]

That was... wow. I expected him to kill her, but I thought he'd use something more direct. I almost feel bad for her. Almost.

On the plus side she's dead, so now everyone can move on. Folks have wasted enough time in that city as it is.

[skaddix]

Ah, you're right, he uses that one a lot too. I will say that his uses of Meteor Swarm stuck out more to me because he's always seemed to really enjoy it, as far as I can tell. Regardless, my main point was that he's a classical blaster mage, and doesn't seem to have nearly as much capability with regards to utility outside that context. Seriously, thirty years and he's only just now thinking, "Hey, I made my second-in-command kill his brother, maybe he's got a plan to screw me over at the end of all this?" Either he's incredibly arrogant, foolish, or both.



Then again, they might just keep eating anyway.

I don't think sorcerers are known for their vast utility but no Xykon is not just thinking RC will backstab him. Its to be expected. In fact as the endgame approaches chance of backstab increases exponentially. As Xykon said don't confuse not caring with not knowing.

As for Redcloak as Dragon-in-Chief. Well he is not scarier or more powerful whether he is smarter we will see. Besides the IFCC are the true puppet masters of this story and the best part no one else playing the game knows they are actually in it except 2 agents. RC is the quintessential Starscream though.

[PallElendro]

These unexpected circumstances just pop out everywhere, don't they?

[Mars]

I officially love Red Cloak

[i6uuaq]

Then again, they might just keep eating anyway.

I believe RC's last order would be in effect, which was "Consume each other in the order you were created." This would continue to apply to the wight eating Tsukiko, who presumably would not resist due to being under said-Wight's command.

[dmorenus]

I've been rereading this all day.
Wow.
Tsukiko's death and dying words were powerful, though I have little sympathy for her. Redcloak had a great monologue.
Wow.

[Tannhaeuser]

I know it would be a wild stretch indeed, but I do have this bizarre little hope that, somehow,

Spoiler

Show

the fact that Thanh’s shoes might be found without a wight in them will be a clue that will lead Xykon to discover that Redcloak killed Tsukiko and (more importantly) is deceiving him — and ultimately lead Xykon to lichquidate him.

[thubby]

Then again, they might just keep eating anyway.

depends on if an undead counts as a corpse. given that wights are intelligent, and intelligent undead are capable of literal geni-ing orders, they may well say that, no, they aren't.

[OPM]

I'll confirm it with my friend who's learning Japanese, but I think it's pronounced like Sue(but with a slight "t" sound)-kee-koh.

If anyone's able to tell me I'm wrong, please do so; I probably am.

You are correct.

The tsu part is pronounced a lot like the ts at the end of "rats." (Whether or not the u in tsu is voiced depends on the speaker and the word.) My best guess for the way it's written is 月子 (月 = moon; 子 = child / common suffix for female names) which would imply that it means something like "moon child." That's only a guess, but it appears to fit her personality rather well. There are other ways to write 'tsuki' but I don't know of any that make sense. But 'ko' at the end of a woman's name? That's almost guaranteed to be written as 子.

[Cizak]

I think the "punch line" was that the wights took RC's last, pretty absurd, command and just went "Sure, no problem" with it. But it's definitely a more plot heavy than joke heavy strip.

[ti'esar]

Incidentally, at 12 strips, I believe this is now officially the longest time we have gone without seeing any members of the Order.

[OPM]

Of course, Giant putting that mirror RIGHT THERE is probably a Chekov's Gun. Someone saw what happened, someone knows The Plan. It might not be Xy, he was in the process of teleporting after all, but someone out there has that info now.

Suppose Xykon knows, what then? RC just helpfully explained that Xykon can't control the gates without him, because he has the one and only copy of the divine half of the ritual.

Maybe the whole reason RC gave that totally unnecessary explanation is because he *expects* Xykon to spy on him and wants X to know that he still needs RC? It's not like Xykon would believe him if he told him that directly, after all, and Tsukiko hadn't been able to figure it out on her own.

I mean, they were already both planning to betray each other in the end, so this doesn't really change much of anything. If either of them has an intelligence score worth mentioning, they both expect each other to betray them as well.

The biggest question in my mind is what Xykon will do as a countermeasure? (SOD spoiler follows)

Spoiler

Show

I know that Xykon ordered MitD to eat RC if he betrayed him. But that just doesn't seem like a credible threat at this point.

That said, Xykon has had a long time to craft magic items and even mentioned that he was doing exactly that for 8 hours out of every day. I wonder what he'll make?

[Garwain]

My first thought?

Poor Elan, now he can't make out with Tsukiko as female recurring villain.

Or will she return as undead? Would suit her...

[Karoug]

Poor Elan, now he can't make out with Tsukiko as female recurring villain.

I think it was Haley who was supposed to make out with her....

Anyway, great comic, RC is on an awesomeness spree.

Am I the only one who was kind of disappointed that we didn't actually see the Xs in her eyes? And maybe some more?

[JoseB]

Japanese is a syllabic language, and the syllable "tsu" doesn't exist, so it can't be pronounced in japanese without using the katakana or romaaji alphabet.

So, it could be [TU-SUE-KEE-KOH], with a very fast "U", or more probably [SUE-KEE-KOH], as I think most people on the boards pronounce.

EDIT: although I don't understand why you want to pronounce it in japanese...

You are wrong / Te equivocas :)

"TSU" is a perfectly standard syllable in Japanese. It belongs in the "T" row of hiragana and katakana ("TA", "CHI", "TSU", "TE", "TO").

"TSU" in hiragana is "つ". In katakana, it is "ツ".

Tsukiko is also a perfectly standard Japanese name for a woman. The kanji most commonly used to write it are "月子", and they mean "Moon Child".

Darn, she had a nice name.

[Kuroimaken]

You are wrong / Te equivocas :)

"TSU" is a perfectly standard syllable in Japanese. It belongs in the "T" row of hiragana and katakana ("TA", "CHI", "TSU", "TE", "TO").

"TSU" in hiragana is "つ". In katakana, it is "ツ".

Tsukiko is also a perfectly standard Japanese name for a woman. The kanji most commonly used to write it are "月子", and they mean "Moon Child".

Darn, she had a nice name.

JoseB, thanks for ninja'ing me to this explanation.

Anyway, as for the whole "what about Tsukiko's other undead" thing... I fully expect Redcloak to have either set up a contingency plan for his minions to kick their collective rears in the event they run amok (remember: V has used scry-and-die tactics before. It wouldn't be such a stretch to consider a contingency plan if such happened again, except targetting Tsukiko or RC himself) OR he could actually use the confusion to point fingers at Tsukiko for rebelling. The girl is (was?) notoriously unstable personality-wise.

In any case, I think she's gone for good. But her final lines are incredibly saddening...

I would've also asked why the hell she didn't even try Dimension Door. She could also cast it while grappled, the dimensional lock wouldn't have affected it (she could've just teleported to the door), and it's a personal spell, so RC wouldn't have been able to counterspell it. For a Wizard, that was a majorly stupid act on Tsukiko's part.

[The Succubus]

Undeadtris? There are some really fantastic game ideas in this thread!

[thubby]

I would've also asked why the hell she didn't even try Dimension Door. She could also cast it while grappled, the dimensional lock wouldn't have affected it (she could've just teleported to the door), and it's a personal spell, so RC wouldn't have been able to counterspell it. For a Wizard, that was a majorly stupid act on Tsukiko's part.

dimension door is a teleportation spell. by definition, it goes through the astral plane.

[deuterio12]

I would've also asked why the hell she didn't even try Dimension Door. She could also cast it while grappled, the dimensional lock wouldn't have affected it (she could've just teleported to the door), and it's a personal spell, so RC wouldn't have been able to counterspell it. For a Wizard, that was a majorly stupid act on Tsukiko's part.

I simply ask why didn't she have a Freedom of Movement up. That's kinda half the reason of going Mysthic Theurge so you can grab those nice divine buffs.

Or any other kind of buffs for the matter. Do you seriously walk into the room of the high level evil cleric if you're not oozing buffs out of your ears?

On the other hand, redcloak extra being extra ruthless kinda makes up for that. He's taking no chances now, just mercylessly crushing whatever gets in his way and making sure Xykon keeps pointed in the right direction.

And again, seriously, did Tsukiko really think Redcloak rose to Xykon's most trusted mate just by being a spineless coward? The lich doesn't keep weaklings around him for long. Redcloak has endured decades.

The big question now is if Xykon will be willing to cast an advanced ritual which he doesn't know what it does.

[Kuroimaken]

RC could just tell him "I found her notes though. Apparently the ritual does exactly what you think it does."