OOTS #830 - The Discussion Thread

[Kurald Galain]

My point was that Redcloak has not read the D&D rulebook and therefore can not know for sure what undead can or cannot feel or do.

Actually, he has. (edit) Also, here. Redcloak seems to make a point out of reading as many rulebooks as possible.

Actually, so did Kubota, except that he was reading the wrong edition.

[Aenghus]

Ugh. What a way to go.

But I'm not surprised. In most versions of D&D clerics are better fighting or using undead than wizards, even necromancers, precisely because of Turn/rebuke powers and anti-undead spells.

[Shale]

What makes you think he hasn't read the core rules? He's explicitly read the splatbooks. Remember the Xykon triplets?

[Kojiro]

I honestly don't really see why Xykon would care about Tsukiko.

(Not the only person who's said this, but the most recent one.) As I and numerous other people have stated, in this thread and the last one, Tsukiko was working on direct orders from Xykon on the ritual, i.e. the most important thing short of his phylactery and an absolutely essential part of his plan. Ignoring her uses as a minion and pretty much everything else, that alone is why he would care about where she is and what she's doing. Personal Redcloak love/Tsukiko hate (on the part of the people who refuse to see this, not Xykon, obviously) does not change that.

[Gift Jeraff]

Does the fact that the boot-shod wight says they're sorry prove that Tsukiko was a smidgen right about the undead, or just that they still have a necromantic link to her (but Redcloak's Command Undead overpowers it)? Or am I reading too much into it?

[xyzchyx]

I think true resurrection wouldn't work, since she'd just die immediately again, from lack of levels, and since she is dead, restoration won't work to put those levels back. Tsukiko is beyond resurrection.

Using in-game rules, a single properly worded wish spell could bring her back.

[el-pietro]

"Subtly controlling Xykon"? Oh, Redcloak. Your skills at self-deception are even greater than Miko's.

what self deception - Xykon thinks hes in control, but if their plan is sucessful then Xykon will have gained nothing while Redcloak will have given his people a city to call home and will have given control of the snarl to the Dark One

that sounds ideal for red Cloak even if he has to suffer years of humiliation to achieve it

[t209]

So the black squadron ate her or snap her neck to 360 degree.
P.S- Nice cover on O Chul's origin.
P.P.S- I hope they like dried up human!

[Ingus]

I like last strips very much. Puns aside, there's serious storytelling here.
Redcloack is now a respectable evil character, with a personal agenda and the ruthless power and the the sublery to really achieve it.

But, as I see it, this is the second idiot ball I see him doing here (first one is in Start of Darkness). He definitely needs the counseling of Tarquin

[Dark Elf Bard]

Not only is Redcloak right about the nature of the undead, but also the fact that he had the final word with her, the fact that he used her creations against her, the fact that she was proven wrong in this act, and that she deserved what happened to her, makes this the greatest strip in a long history of great comic strips.

Redcloak may have upgraded himself to the position of BBEG, with Xykon as his dragon.
Now who's the bitch?

Also, the last panel is missing something. It starts with "S" and ends with "oul Bind."

[GameSpawn]

This strip was fantastic. Redcloak is much more effective than I gave him credit for.

[sims796]

This was suprisingly gruesome. I'm not mad that this happend, and unlike the Resistance, I'm not feeling sad about it, either. I'm ever so glad that (can we say the b-word here) brat is dead.

I'm just glad I wasn't eating when I read this.

For extra humiliation, he should have raised her. As a zombie.

[CarinTrenos]

Damn, I hate my weakness for helpless female villains and destroyed hopes/dreams.

A really strong chapter, in terms of plot AND emotion....epic :D

But I see a problem....now that most readers KNOW that RC's goal is different from Xykon's - it would be boring if Xykon would just "swallow" RC's explanation.

Maybe Xykon is going to find a real way to control the Snarl or discovers why V's imaginary bird () couldn't find the godkilling creature ^^

[The Succubus]

Sorry, I can't give you a logical reason for that because I have mental image of 4 wights in a sort of cross-shape gobbling up Tsukiko heads.

Someone should bring this idea to the Giant's attention. It'll make a killing on Ookoodook.

[AutomatedTeller]

My thoughts on Xykon not caring about Tsukiko has nothing to do with me liking or disliking her.

I just don't think Tsukiko was all that important to his plans. Redcloak is critical - Tsukiko was just a minion.

[suszterpatt]

Oh, and btw, re: Xykon finding out about Tsukiko. I'm pretty sure Redcloak has a pretty good cover story for that: Tsukiko found the resistance, besieged their HQ, and the mountain collapsed in the battle, killing everyone on both sides.


It may not be a perfect cover, but it's good enough for Xykon.

[sims796]

As always, Redcloak is hypocritical even when there's a glimmer of truth in what he's saying. He started with Tsukiko's delusion that her wights were capable of caring about her, and segued seamlessly into one of the excuses he tells himself to avoid admitting he's Xykon's slave.

The sooner he gets over this fact, the better.

[Lvl45DM!]

I think Tsukiko has high Wis and Int...and is insane. She has a necrophilia insanity, its not just a sexuality its a compulsion, same with Durkon's arboreaphobia (thats probably not that word i just like how it sounds).
She was smart enough to keep Haley on the back foot, remember it was their "Round 4". She figured out the intricacies of the ritual and even came to the correct conclusion that RC was hiding something instead of him being unaware. But when it comes to getting some bone she can't help herself, nothing to do with stats.
I once played a halfling with a fear of flying. He had high Wis and Int, also a high Dex so low chance of ever falling and it wasn't a 'flaw' or anything. He just was pants wettingly afraid of flying. I get the geek in all of us tries to define it in stats but some things don't have stats. V obviously got a mate despite an atrocious Cha, Belkar's intelligence flies all over the place, and Durkon has the tree-phobia. Tsukiko is a wizard and a cleric so at least 15-16 Int and Wis with the spells she casts. She is just also very crazy

[Skeletoff]

Also, the last panel is missing something. It starts with "S" and ends with "oul Bind."

The last panel lacks something. It begins with "s" and ends in "oul bind".

Belkar sure influenced a lot of people.

[WickedWizard17]

Oh . . . my . . . gods.

Well, well, well. It finally comes out. What those of us who read Start of Darkness have known for awhile, actually. Nice one, Redcloak! Maybe you got hit with another piece of spine?

Also, the last panel is missing something. It starts with "S" and ends with "oul Bind."

Now THAT would really put ol' Reddie up there as evil!

[Edhelras]

Does the fact that the boot-shod wight says they're sorry prove that Tsukiko was a smidgen right about the undead, or just that they still have a necromantic link to her (but Redcloak's Command Undead overpowers it)? Or am I reading too much into it?

Ha-ha, the boots! I totally over-looked those.

This is the strip where that wight got his boots (Thanh's, originally).
That Wight must surely be one of Tsukiko's favorites, and oldest children.

BTW this strip shows that Tsukiko isn't too bright, despite the INT and WIS needed to qualify as a Mystic Theurge. It's quite easy to surprise her.

EDIT: And, I definitely believe that Rich must have children, seeing how the boots-thing with the wight ended in the next panel: "No, you can't. Dearie, please be quiet, Daddy's driving. No you can't. No, you can't. Because I say so. Your sister didn't get one either, there's only one pair of them. No you can't. No you can't. ALL RIGHT, take those boots, then!"

[Zombieboots]

Both intelligent and wise is the Cloak of Red.
Killing off his rivals- The Mystic Theurge: dead!
Will Xykon become aware of his subtle rise?
Or will his blindness be the lich's demise?

Never liked Tsukiko, this comic made me smile.
Behold! Red Clock's cunning and guile!

[Conuly]

Poor, poor deluded, demented Tsukiio.

Not that she didn't deserve it, or wasn't a horrible person (though marginally less horrible than the rest of Team Evil (due to being insane), and I'm one of those who thinks RC has a serious point!), but... what an awful way to die, eaten up by your own babies!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

In NetHack, wight corpses are insubstantial. Eating them grants no nutrition (or negative nutrition by causing vomiting). So you can eat an infinite number of wights*.

*(As long as you aren't at max satiation where you have a chance of choking to death by eating anything regardless)

[Particle_Man]

In addition wights have theorically an INT score and therefore wouldn't obey suicidal orders such as "kill each other and the last of you, throw yourself in the fireplace" but we'll let that pass because it was a very very fast triple-length strip.

I think this might be a souped up private research version of the spell (silent super duper command undead?). RC had it already memorized (being a cleric). I think he intends to use the souped up version on Xykon on day.

[bobthe6th]

The entire charicter of Tsukiko I thought "the lengths people will go for the lich loved feat"...

also, take that thurge, those three lost caster levels hurt don't they?

[CarinTrenos]

My thoughts on Xykon not caring about Tsukiko has nothing to do with me liking or disliking her.

I just don't think Tsukiko was all that important to his plans. Redcloak is critical - Tsukiko was just a minion.

Sure but at the moment he distrusts RC's capacity and there must have been a reason, why he gave Tsukiko his part of the spell. Now she is dead and with her X's only possibility for a second opinion.

RC isn't critical either...the Crimson Mantle is the real deal and a few hundred strips ago, X has suggested to give it to Jirix. RC's only real worth for X has been his brothercide, which worked as a symbol of trust, and, maybe, their common "adventures".

[Kobold-Bard]

Regarding Tsukiko's Wis score, you can have high stats and just not apply them. I'm fairly intelligent, but also fairly lazy so don't use that intelligence. Tsukiko knows that squaring up to Redcloak is dangerous, but she's an arrogant lunatic, so ignores those concerns in favour of her love for Xykon.

[Icedaemon]

You know what would have made this even more awesome, in a brutally chilling way? If it was revealed Redcloak had regenerated his Eye and was hiding it.

So, now two questions remain, given we now know Xykon is on the way:

1. How will Redcloak explain Tsukiko's disappearence to Xykon? Xykon will definitely ask, since he left her that task, so Redcloak may have to bluff about that.
2. What will Redcloak do with the Phylactery? Will he just present it to Xykon, or will he attempt to conceal it in some manner?

In any case, I think we're going to see a relocation to the Western Continent in the next few strips.

1: Partial honesty would work best. She broke into his room and got on his nerves. Xykon is evil enough to assume that anyone reasonable would reply to that with manslaughter.
2: In case the above does not work, the phylactery could work as a nice distraction.

[Umberhulk]

The hottest thing Tsukiko ever did was die.