LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!

[The Succubus]

Promise us you'll look after yourself while you're not online.

Promise.

[blackfox]

I think in New York *snip*

16 to own knives here. Not quite sure about buying one? Bought mine in Virginia, where the laws probably 'over 8,' when I was 17.

Also Asta (and everyone, really)--I saw Natalie Reed's most recent blog post (about us!) and is awesome.

[Kindablue]

Keveak

That always confused me as well. Why is dude masculine? Doesn't dude mean, literally, an infected hair on an elephant's arse? Hm. I suspect not, cursory look shows it comes from German for fool. Fool is pretty gender neutral isn't it?

*snip*

Dunno. Man originally was used in the same way as human, wasn't it? You could just use man as acknowledgement that the person is considered a person, and on equal footing with you.

I meant to say this when Keveak brought it up, but something happened and I got distracted; then it got brought up again and just as I was about to hit send, the nigh hurricane force winds outside knocked my electricity out. Wah-wah-wah. Anyway, what a word used to mean or what a word "actually" means don't matter in a modern context. Turnip could have meant "a genitial wart" 300 years ago, and using that definition today would be a misuse of the word. The question that should get raised isn't what it ought to mean, but rather how people use it. Is a commonly accepted definition of dude and man "a human the speaker is on even footing with"? Where I'm from it can be used like that without raising any eyebrows, but it's also commonly used with tongue in cheek when it's clearly not addressing a man.

[noparlpf]

16 to own knives here. Not quite sure about buying one? Bought mine in Virginia, where the laws probably 'over 8,' when I was 17.

Also Asta (and everyone, really)--I saw Natalie Reed's most recent blog post (about us!) and is awesome.

Huh. Well, we have some silly law about needing to be eighteen to buy box cutters because we're scared of terrorism or something. I might be mixing NY and MA up for the pocket-knives things because I go to school in MA and I know you need to be eighteen to buy a knife in MA. (Last year I had to buy a knife for my roommate because he wasn't eighteen. He's older than I am.)

[KenderWizard]

On a completely random note, hey, KenderWizard, I just remembered that I made friends with a 3.2 billion year old rock a while back. Isn't that neat? :D

OHMYGOSH THAT'S SO COOL! Where? Was it in Canada? They've got some sweet cratonic continental shield crust up there. Was it a gneiss? Was it a nice gneiss? I bet it was super-metamorphosed!

*snip*
Anyway, what a word used to mean or what a word "actually" means don't matter in a modern context. Turnip could have meant "a genitial wart" 300 years ago, and using that definition today would be a misuse of the word. The question that should get raised isn't what it ought to mean, but rather how people use it. Is a commonly accepted definition of dude and man "a human the speaker is on even footing with"? Where I'm from it can be used like that without raising any eyebrows, but it's also commonly used with tongue in cheek when it's clearly not addressing a man.

I was about to say the same thing, in reply to SiuiS. Language is made by people, and constantly changed by people, and that's what it's for. We use it for what we need words for right now, and words drop out and come in and change meaning, sometimes over and over again. Since "dude", "guy" and especially "man" are primarily used to mean "male (likely teen or older) human", that's what they mean now. It doesn't matter if (hypothetically) "man" originally meant "the girliest female girl-woman you ever saw doing womanly girl things" and was applied ironically, or spread out and got applied elsewhere. It means what it means now.

I would be happy if "man" and "men" became gender neutral and people used "were" and "wif" or "wer" and "wo" or whatever prefixes or suffixes they liked. But unless almost everyone uses "man" to mean "person" and almost everyone uses the other markers, until then it's gendered male as default. And it's the same, except less hypothetical, with "dude" (and "guys"). Since most people use and understand it to mean "male person", that's what it means. You can't fully use it in a gender-neutral way, since your audience is quite likely to be interpreting it as meaning a male person. I mean, you can use it any way you like, but unless you make it clear, other people aren't going to assume the less prevalent meaning.

Broken record - I'm feeling worse and won't be posting much over the next week or so.

Asta, don't you dare make me have to make you another card!





*hugs* Feel better and look after yourself.

[bluewind95]

Broken record - I'm feeling worse and won't be posting much over the next week or so.

Asta, please feel better. We're all rooting for you, we really are.

[Caustic Soda]

*Hugs Asta*

Feel better soon, and may the card KenderWizard made help you smile.

edit: that's good to hear, Asta. But even if you only have slight troubles, we can still offer you digital hugs if you'd like some

[Asta Kask]

I'm nowhere near as bad as I was last time. I just need some time to recover from a few things that happened.

[H Birchgrove]

Yea, well that film certainly couldn't have helped.

Found it.

Broken record - I'm feeling worse and won't be posting much over the next week or so.

*hugs* Get well soon.

[Kindablue]

*snip*

Right. I'm going to keep misusing it, though.

I'm nowhere near as bad as I was last time. I just need some time to recover from a few things that happened.

Good luck.

[THAC0]

Dare I ask? What exactly is a penguin pebble?

Ooo ooo something I know the answer to! ...I think.

Did you see Happy Feet? Anyway, some kinds of penguins give pebbles to their sweehearts.

[Arachu]

I'm nowhere near as bad as I was last time. I just need some time to recover from a few things that happened.

*Hugs* We're here for you, man.

[Coidzor]

Good luck, Asta.

Ooo ooo something I know the answer to! ...I think.

Did you see Happy Feet? Anyway, some kinds of penguins give pebbles to their sweehearts.

As long as we don't go into an in-depth discussion of the Don Bluth Movie.

[KenderWizard]

Ooo ooo something I know the answer to! ...I think.

Did you see Happy Feet? Anyway, some kinds of penguins give pebbles to their sweehearts.

Oh wow, that is so adorable! I gave a pebble to my sweetheart once... #geologistsrock

In other news, apparently some rich poopy heads in my university want to set up a circle jerk frat house. This makes me sad.

[turkishproverb]

Found it.



*hugs* Get well soon.

...Yea, that'd do it. That film had a few problems.

*Hugs Asta* Take care of yourself.

[Astrella]

I just resonated with the roof of my mouth. That's halfway to the feminine range!

*Hugsplosion*

Oh yeah, missed this. Yes, I think I will. I've been wearing blouses and women's jeans in public for a while, and I've now started shaving and applying foundation every day. From there, well, all that's needed to project "girl" is breasts and a high ponytail. It's surprised me how little I need to change to swap between female and feminine. I suppose my day to day presentation has been reasonably androgynous for a while, I just haven't noticed as I tend to see a guy in the mirror unless the female presentation is quite overt.

I have an MtF friend who doesn't use her chesticles any more, so I'm hoping to borrow them soon.

That's cool.

So... I have a few things that I would like to get off my chest, so I'll put them in a spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Since I was about... 13, I've always been a little odd about my gender, having occasional bouts of SUDDENLY WRONG BODY, and would randomly go back and forth between cis and trans, ie gender fluidity. Lately, I've been 'settling out' so to speak, on a female gender identity. Sexuality-wise, I'm primarily asexual, but I will have random bouts of bisexuality some days. Anyways, onto the issue. One of my female friends has a huge thing for me (and has for a while), and we were sort of a 'thing'. I do like her quite a bit, but I don't have quite the level of feelings for her as she does for me. I do want to pursue a relationship with her, but I know for a fact that she's straight, and her family is highly religious. So I'm really worried about this, and don't have an idea on how to work with this... My sexuality/gender-identity has never really come up between us, though half the people I know think that I'm gay, or at least bi (which, really, is a perfectly acceptable assessment, considering the frequency that I hit on guys, and not all that untruthful ), including her for a while, and I'm very reluctant to bring it up, as I don't really know how she'll react...

Gender woes suck. :s
Sexuality is fluid though, so, you never know, you know?

Re: Dude
I feel it depends on the context; but the common use of it is still gendered, so I wouldn't use it in a gender-neutral context myself unless under friends / people who are aware of that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So, therapist meeting went well. Got quite emotional, but I think it was a productive talk. Now I have time to finally go clothes shopping before my next meeting. >.>

[Coidzor]

I'll just lea-

In other news, apparently some rich poopy heads in my university want to set up a circle jerk frat house. This makes me sad.

-wait, what the hell?

[turkishproverb]

Thanks for the link coidzor.

[Coidzor]

Well, you know, above my paygrade and all that jazz.

[noparlpf]

OHMYGOSH THAT'S SO COOL! Where? Was it in Canada? They've got some sweet cratonic continental shield crust up there. Was it a gneiss? Was it a nice gneiss? I bet it was super-metamorphosed!

Uhh. I can't remember where it was from; my Bio prof passed it around in class last semester, and because I sat way up at the back, I was the last one to get it and I held onto it for the period. But yeah, it was really neat. Kind of awe-inspiring to think that things can last that long and be real and tangible.

I'm nowhere near as bad as I was last time. I just need some time to recover from a few things that happened.

*hugs*
Want to talk about it? Would that help?

Oh wow, that is so adorable! I gave a pebble to my sweetheart once... #geologistsrock

That's kind of adorable.
I used to carry a broken-off piece of the big rock on the corner where I confessed to my ex.

In other news, apparently some rich poopy heads in my university want to set up a circle jerk frat house. This makes me sad.

Ew. I'll sign the petition against this.

[Arachu]

So, therapist meeting went well. Got quite emotional, but I think it was a productive talk. Now I have time to finally go clothes shopping before my next meeting. >.>

*Hugs*

I'll just lea-

It is so hard not to (vicariously) cuss those girls out... So. ******. Hard.

I'm not sure if I' be able to contribute anything other than *hugs* and quite a bit of sympathy... I hope things turn out okay. :/

[H Birchgrove]

...Yea, that'd do it. That film had a few problems.

You've seen it?

Spoiler

Show

When I saw it, I didn't think so much about the "gunsel", apart from "well, this wasn't a positive portrayal of gays", though I later reflected more on it. The Asian-Americans seemed to there to give an exotic ambiance like the pulp novels of that period, though the Asian woman who was involved in the case had a genuinely tragic background, IIRC. Then again, I feel I know too little about the Tongs and Chinatowns IRL to give a fair assessment.

I just realised how little I remember of the plot.

In other news, apparently some rich poopy heads in my university want to set up a circle jerk frat house. This makes me sad.

Are *all* university fraternities (in UK and USA) like those in films and popular culture? (We don't really have those here; our student associations generally have both male and female members.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So, therapist meeting went well. Got quite emotional, but I think it was a productive talk. Now I have time to finally go clothes shopping before my next meeting. >.>

Yay! Glad to hear it finally went all right for you (more or less).

[Coidzor]

Are *all* university fraternities (in UK and USA) like those in films and popular culture?

Very few fraternities, even the ones that party, really approach the depths of pop cultural frattishness. Then there's the fraternities which don't party, the academic fraternities which are completely different animals to the Old Boys' club, the female fraternities that we call sororities except for the one or two that do call themselves female fraternities, and the campuses where the percentage of people on campus involved in so-called "Greek Life" exceeds 50% without the demographics of the university being any different from any other university aside from the proportion of "greek" to non-greek.

So, no, *all* fraternities are not media exaggerations of the worst of the bunch.

Not all women think the same, either, and that tired old lie comes up a heck of a whole lot more often than pop cultural frattishness.

Hence my question with its implied desire for illumination, elucidation, or even just some more details for clarity's sake.

[turkishproverb]

on frats: I'll just say that the ones near my school were called "Rapehouse" for a reason, and that no, the university didn't really step in to do anything.

Because evidently frats are sacrosanct there.

You've seen it?

Spoiler

Show

When I saw it, I didn't think so much about the "gunsel", apart from "well, this wasn't a positive portrayal of gays", though I later reflected more on it. The Asian-Americans seemed to there to give an exotic ambiance like the pulp novels of that period, though the Asian woman who was involved in the case had a genuinely tragic background, IIRC. Then again, I feel I know too little about the Tongs and Chinatowns IRL to give a fair assessment.

I just realised how little I remember of the plot.

Once. A while back.

More than that would take much longer to discuss.

[Arachu]

Aaaand depressed again. I hoped I'd at least see it coming this time, but in all fairness I probably should have.

What's more, dysphoria's changed up a bit... There are no words to describe the itching. >:/

[KenderWizard]

I'm going to spoiler (I KEEP TYING "SPOILDER" THAT'S NOT A WORD!) the frat house discussion, because it's fairly off topic and also, ugh.

Spoiler

Show

I don't know all the details or how exaggerated the story I heard was, but the gist seems to be that a group of rich guys who are all friends and who "share common interests, such as fine dining, horseracing and automobiles" (who says "automobiles" in Ireland?) have decided they should make a frat house, with a link to a snooty US frat house. The aim of this house will be for upper-class rich white young men to meet other upper-class rich white young men, and older men, without the terrible impositions of poor people and/or women, except maybe some pretty girls as quote "arm candy". It will function as a networking thing so that poor people and women don't get the same opportunities as the clearly more deserving rich white men when it comes to making contacts with people in business. Sorry, men in business. Who are rich, and white.

There are a few points to make here.
1) People are allowed to do what they like, but they are not allowed to use the name of the college or have a college-affiliated group without following rules and coming under the remit of one of the capitated bodies. The capitated bodies don't allow groups who put restrictions on entry. For example, the Muslim Student Society is not exclusive to students who are Muslim.
2) I would still have a problem with the rich-people club if it wasn't explicitly sexist.
3) I would still have a problem with an explicitly sexist club (obviously!) if it wasn't implicitly classist. (You need to contribute money to join and the idea is to have meetings in fancy restaurants and at the races and stuff.)
4) From what I can tell, the idea of Greek Houses (which I don't have an inherent problem with, I've just heard so so many rape stories from them, and also, why are they still so much gender segregated?) is instead of student societies. If you want to be a rich douche, just join the Buisness Society (or whatever) and go to fancy restaurants with your rich friends. Don't push it in everyone's face.
5) Seriously, WTF?!

Uhh. I can't remember where it was from; my Bio prof passed it around in class last semester, and because I sat way up at the back, I was the last one to get it and I held onto it for the period. But yeah, it was really neat. Kind of awe-inspiring to think that things can last that long and be real and tangible.

That's kind of adorable.
I used to carry a broken-off piece of the big rock on the corner where I confessed to my ex.

That's so cool! I've met meteorites, similarly old rocks, and thin sections of moon rocks!

Aw, that's adorable too!

[Copper]

on frats: I'll just say that the ones near my school were called "Rapehouse" for a reason, and that no, the university didn't really step in to do anything.

Because evidently frats are sacrosanct there.

And this is how frats get a bad name.
Ugh I hatte it when unversities don't prevent things like this. Rape culture makes me angry.

[Mono Vertigo]

on frats: I'll just say that the ones near my school were called "Rapehouse" for a reason, and that no, the university didn't really step in to do anything.

Sorry, but I don't think I'll ever get closer than a handful kilometers interval near that place.
WHAT THE FRAG IS WRONG WITH THEM

[noparlpf]

I'm going to spoiler (I KEEP TYPING "SPOILDER" THAT'S NOT A WORD!) the frat house discussion, because it's fairly off topic and also, ugh.

Spoiler

Show

I don't know all the details or how exaggerated the story I heard was, but the gist seems to be that a group of rich guys who are all friends and who "share common interests, such as fine dining, horseracing and automobiles" (who says "automobiles" in Ireland?) have decided they should make a frat house, with a link to a snooty US frat house. The aim of this house will be for upper-class rich white young men to meet other upper-class rich white young men, and older men, without the terrible impositions of poor people and/or women, except maybe some pretty girls as quote "arm candy". It will function as a networking thing so that poor people and women don't get the same opportunities as the clearly more deserving rich white men when it comes to making contacts with people in business. Sorry, men in business. Who are rich, and white.

There are a few points to make here.
1) People are allowed to do what they like, but they are not allowed to use the name of the college or have a college-affiliated group without following rules and coming under the remit of one of the capitated bodies. The capitated bodies don't allow groups who put restrictions on entry. For example, the Muslim Student Society is not exclusive to students who are Muslim.
2) I would still have a problem with the rich-people club if it wasn't explicitly sexist.
3) I would still have a problem with an explicitly sexist club (obviously!) if it wasn't implicitly classist. (You need to contribute money to join and the idea is to have meetings in fancy restaurants and at the races and stuff.)
4) From what I can tell, the idea of Greek Houses (which I don't have an inherent problem with, I've just heard so so many rape stories from them, and also, why are they still so much gender segregated?) is instead of student societies. If you want to be a rich douche, just join the Business Society (or whatever) and go to fancy restaurants with your rich friends. Don't push it in everyone's face.
5) Seriously, WTF?!

That's so cool! I've met meteorites, similarly old rocks, and thin sections of moon rocks!

Aw, that's adorable too!

Yeah, I definitely disapprove of this frat. But seeing as they're rich they'll probably get around that first rule you mentioned, where college-affiliated groups can't be exclusive. So is it, like, 1950 over there? Or maybe the early 1800s? There is so much wrong with that kind of world view in this day and age.
I am slightly tempted to look in on some frats when I transfer next semester, just to see what they're like firsthand. I've heard too many rape/hazing/accidental murder stories about frats. (But really I just want to get in a fight with at least a dozen guys at once in my first week of school. Why else would I do something like go to a frat house?)

Rocks are pretty neat. Geology seems like a good field for meeting a lot of different rocks.

[Qaera]

Aaaand depressed again. I hoped I'd at least see it coming this time, but in all fairness I probably should have.

What's more, dysphoria's changed up a bit... There are no words to describe the itching. >:/

I know that feel bro sis. Don't really know how to fix it though.

~ ♅