LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!

[Asta Kask]

Trans people have certain needs that other groups don't. Unisex bathrooms, for instance, is not a major concern for most people.

[noparlpf]

Trans people have certain needs that other groups don't. Unisex bathrooms, for instance, is not a major concern for most people.

I personally don't understand the need for sex-segregated restrooms. (At my school dorm bathrooms are considered unisex, and the only gendered restrooms on campus are in the Student Union building. I've used the women's restroom there as often as I have the men's.) Is it more of that fear that men will peep on or sexually assault women the moment they take their pants down?

[Asta Kask]

Seems that way. Silly, but that's human nature for you.

Edit: Seems my meds are kicking in. Maybe I won't kill myself after all!

[Mono Vertigo]

I know some people have expressed the opinion that LGB people would be better off in terms of rights if they weren't associated with T people, and that we're "****ing them over" by being included in the same bills that protect their rights. For example, IIRC, the Human Rights Campaign was very hesitant to advocate a trans-inclusive ENDA out of fear that it wouldn't pass.

What the hell.

[Asta Kask]

People are people, even if they are LGB. And the temptation to gain a small advantage by ditching a small, exposed group is always there.

[Arachu]

On math: Not very many people in my school claimed to be good at math, but the only non-teachers that were seemed to be boys. Of course, most of the other boys were terrible at it... :shrug:

I was bad at math, but that was because I didn't figure out the logic behind it until Senior year. Still got a "D" for not showing my work, of course. (I told them that I make more errors when I show work, but they were convinced that I just wasn't listening to them )

I know some people have expressed the opinion that LGB people would be better off in terms of rights if they weren't associated with T people, and that we're "****ing them over" by being included in the same bills that protect their rights. For example, IIRC, the Human Rights Campaign was very hesitant to advocate a trans-inclusive ENDA out of fear that it wouldn't pass.

Reminds me of "camp" hate, really. Even if every homosexual in the world were iron-chewing truck-drivers, there's no reason to believe that people would be any more accepting.

Trans people have certain needs that other groups don't. Unisex bathrooms, for instance, is not a major concern for most people.

Frankly, I consider gender-segregation to be detrimental anyway. I've seen some nasty men's restrooms in my time.

Edit: Seems my meds are kicking in. Maybe I won't kill myself after all!

*Hugs!*Good, because if you do I'll kick your ass.

[KenderWizard]

So much to talk about! Must resist urge to essay it up. Seriously, that Andes essay is NOT writing itself, despite my best efforts to ignore it.

While I am biased by my complete agreement to everything you have said as well, I concur to the notion that you write very well and it would be missed should you stop.

The Andes are quite groovy, although far from as neat as the Alpes. [/VeryMuchNotBiasedBySkiingExperiences-Nope!]

I'm very glad you like my essays.

I have actually been deprived of any Real Mountain Real Life experience. I hope to go skiing on the Alps someday! And I hope to visit mountains all over the world, and climb some. I have no desire to do hard-core 1-in-ten-never-come-back mountain climbing, but I hope to be well enough to manage some little mountains someday!

I guess they actually thought it was a great way of describing it. Many, many people think asexuality doesn't exist, after all. It was a really... jarring depiction, though.

I saw a lot of early seasons of House, but I haven't seen this episode, and I have no desire to, since people find it such a bad portrayal of asexual people. But if someone who has seen it wouldn't mind, could they give a quick description of what you're talking about? Maybe in spoiler, so people can avoid reading about stupid ideas of what asexual means if they want to? I'd like to understand more about asexual things, and I'd like to understand what went wrong here.

I could see the Kyriarch using the royal "we" as if to imply that they speak for everyone.

I didn't get any implication of 'ditch the T' out of your essay - in fact, *hugs* for mentioning so many groups.
[/COLOR]

Yeah, I bet They would. But we (actually multiple people) can call Them "They" in a dark and contemptuous tone of voice.

Well, because her essay was about how excluding other oppressed groups is silly, and we should all band together because we all face some kind of lack of privilege somehow! Instead of being all "YEAH WELL MY LIFE IS WORSE" we should be more empathetic and stuff.
This is why I let Kender write our thoughts. She's more eloquent.

Thanks, Nope! To confirm, Arachu, Nope is right. I (hopefully!) didn't ditch trans people from my essay, but the kind of attitude that group has is an example of part of what I was talking about. After all, it's fun to say we fight against an actual Kyriarch, who can be exposed and thrown down, but actually we're fighting against nebulous parts of our own culture, perpetrated by bigots, yes, but sometimes by people who should be our friends and allies, and sometimes who are! Like feminists or LGBs who dismiss trans rights, or activists against racism who use ablist or sexist language, or even people who try to work on behalf of people with mental illnesses but perpetuate negative stereotypes (like a "them" and "us" mentality, or an idea that people with mental illness are broken and dependent on the support of good hardworking "normal" people).

Shouldn't "Human Rights" laws be very general and just say "treat people well"?

In an ideal world, yes. And then they'd just be statements about who we are and the world we live in. But as long as there are people who determinedly take rights away from other people, we need to be explicit about the rights that are due to each and every one of us, so that we don't have the excuse of ignorance or choosing to ignore.

I personally don't understand the need for sex-segregated restrooms. (At my school dorm bathrooms are considered unisex, and the only gendered restrooms on campus are in the Student Union building. I've used the women's restroom there as often as I have the men's.) Is it more of that fear that men will peep on or sexually assault women the moment they take their pants down?

Ugh, don't get me started! Yes, as far as I can tell, it is exactly that the delicate wimmins need to be protected from the lustful beastly mens who won't be able to help themselves but to violate women's privacy and probably bodily integrity if they're, like, taking their pants down near women who are possibly not-quite-"decently clothed".

I cannot say this strongly enough: a triangle with a circle on top and some lines coming out, forming a stereotype of a deviation from the "norm" of male*, DOES NOT, CANNOT, and WILL NOT stop a sexual predator. Because it's not even as strong as a law, and violating someone's body is against actual laws. Rapists who are not scared of laws are certainly not scared of going into the sacred womanly space.

Okay, so, you got me started! Point is, separate bathrooms are silly. Boys don't actually have cooties. Cubicles are standard. Women are capable of spying on other women. I think we should collectively get over it.


* I'm talking about the "bathroom" symbol for "women's bathroom", the little stick person

Edit: Seems my meds are kicking in. Maybe I won't kill myself after all!

Well... that's disturbingly put, but very good news...! I'm really glad you're feeling better!

[Mono Vertigo]

Rubs me the wrong way. Several wrong ways at once.
I'm of Jewish descent (though atheist myself), and, huh, saw or heard about Jewish groups being ditched the same way for convenience. Not counting the situation directly reference by Niemöller quoted several posts ago.

Spoiler

Show

Beside Jews are damn annoying with the whole WWII thing, y'know. Haven't we done enough for them? Can't they just shut up and stop looking for reasons to be harassed or offended, right? There are many other groups who have it much worse than they do! They should just forget it and move on and stop acting like they own the place by the way did I tell you how funny it is that the people who actually manage the world ARE Jews can't be a coincidence and bluh bluh BLUH
*washes hands and tongue with soap*

*cough*
Sorry for the digression. I think re-reading the quote put me in a bad mood.
What I mean is that it is quite despicable, but that is nothing new, so I'm not contributing much to the conversation and I should take another dose of painkillers instead of rambling angrily.

[Asta Kask]

Well... that's disturbingly put, but very good news...! I'm really glad you're feeling better!

The disturbing formulation is a sign that my morbid sense of humor is reasserting itself.

[Arachu]

Rubs me the wrong way. Several wrong ways at once.
I'm of Jewish descent (though atheist myself), and, huh, saw or heard about Jewish groups being ditched the same way for convenience. Not counting the situation directly reference by Niemöller quoted several posts ago.

Spoiler

Show

Beside Jews are damn annoying with the whole WWII thing, y'know. Haven't we done enough for them? Can't they just shut up and stop looking for reasons to be harassed or offended, right? There are many other groups who have it much worse than they do! They should just forget it and move on and stop acting like they own the place by the way did I tell you how funny it is that the people who actually manage the world ARE Jews can't be a coincidence and bluh bluh BLUH
*washes hands and tongue with soap*

*cough*
Sorry for the digression. I think re-reading the quote put me in a bad mood.
What I mean is that it is quite despicable, but that is nothing new, so I'm not contributing much to the conversation and I should take another dose of painkillers instead of rambling angrily.

*Hugs* You aren't alone in being rubbed the wrong way by bull like that. I'm (probably) not Jewish myself, but there is literally nothing I hate more than bigotry like that.

[noparlpf]

Frankly, I consider gender-segregation to be detrimental anyway. I've seen some nasty men's restrooms in my time.

I've seen some pretty nasty women's and unisex bathrooms in my day. The faculty women's bathroom in the science wing back in high school was really nice, though.

Seems that way. Silly, but that's human nature for you.

Edit: Seems my meds are kicking in. Maybe I won't kill myself after all!

Silly humans. I never did understand them.

Welp. That's an oddly worrisome reassurance.
I'm glad you're feeling better. n.n

So much to talk about! Must resist urge to essay it up. Seriously, that Andes essay is NOT writing itself, despite my best efforts to ignore it.

I'm very glad you like my essays.

I have actually been deprived of any Real Mountain Real Life experience. I hope to go skiing on the Alps someday! And I hope to visit mountains all over the world, and climb some. I have no desire to do hard-core 1-in-ten-never-come-back mountain climbing, but I hope to be well enough to manage some little mountains someday!

A couple of friends keep saying I should try skiing or snowboarding. I mean, I go to school in the Berkshires. There are three different ski places within half an hour of the school.
Hardcore one-in-ten-never-come-back mountain climbing sounds fun, though. I would be that one, but only because I built a cabin halfway up the mountain and spent the rest of my life there living with the bears.

I saw a lot of early seasons of House, but I haven't seen this episode, and I have no desire to, since people find it such a bad portrayal of asexual people. But if someone who has seen it wouldn't mind, could they give a quick description of what you're talking about? Maybe in spoiler, so people can avoid reading about stupid ideas of what asexual means if they want to? I'd like to understand more about asexual things, and I'd like to understand what went wrong here.

Based on this episode, I don't like House, and not even because of their portrayal of asexuality.

Spoiler

Show

Basically House and some other doctor make a bet because House thinks the other dude's patient and her husband, who claim to be asexual, are either lying or have some medical cause for it. The main plot of the episode was about some dude with Alzheimer's, but this little side-plot ended with the dude having prostate cancer and the chick having been lying because she was so in love with this dude that she was cool pretending to be asexual for ten years of marriage and however long of dating before that.
Oh yeah and the way the woman described asexuality at the beginning of the episode felt kind of forced to me. Doc says "hey we should run a pregnancy test" (maybe it was STDs?) and lady says "nah, I'm not pregnant". Doc says "but birth control can fail" and she's like "not mine we don't have sex". I can't remember the exact phrasing of the next couple of lines, but the next few lines were the bit that felt forced to me.

Thanks, Nope! To confirm, Arachu, Nope is right. I (hopefully!) didn't ditch trans people from my essay, but the kind of attitude that group has is an example of part of what I was talking about. After all, it's fun to say we fight against an actual Kyriarch, who can be exposed and thrown down, but actually we're fighting against nebulous parts of our own culture, perpetrated by bigots, yes, but sometimes by people who should be our friends and allies, and sometimes who are! Like feminists or LGBs who dismiss trans rights, or activists against racism who use ablist or sexist language, or even people who try to work on behalf of people with mental illnesses but perpetuate negative stereotypes (like a "them" and "us" mentality, or an idea that people with mental illness are broken and dependent on the support of good hardworking "normal" people).

You're like the eloquent half of me. I wish I had that ability.

In an ideal world, yes. And then they'd just be statements about who we are and the world we live in. But as long as there are people who determinedly take rights away from other people, we need to be explicit about the rights that are due to each and every one of us, so that we don't have the excuse of ignorance or choosing to ignore.

Oh reality, why do you not work the way I think you should? ('Cause obviously my way is the right way.)
I don't get why people can't just be nice to each other, but I do realise the necessity for explicit laws. And at least that means they might eventually become general moral laws and then we won't need government laws.

Ugh, don't get me started! Yes, as far as I can tell, it is exactly that the delicate wimmins need to be protected from the lustful beastly mens who won't be able to help themselves but to violate women's privacy and probably bodily integrity if they're, like, taking their pants down near women who are possibly not-quite-"decently clothed".

I cannot say this strongly enough: a triangle with a circle on top and some lines coming out, forming a stereotype of a deviation from the "norm" of male*, DOES NOT, CANNOT, and WILL NOT stop a sexual predator. Because it's not even as strong as a law, and violating someone's body is against actual laws. Rapists who are not scared of laws are certainly not scared of going into the sacred womanly space.

Okay, so, you got me started! Point is, separate bathrooms are silly. Boys don't actually have cooties. Cubicles are standard. Women are capable of spying on other women. I think we should collectively get over it.

* I'm talking about the "bathroom" symbol for "women's bathroom", the little stick person

Not to mention that most rapes take place in the rapist's or victim's home, most rapists are acquaintances or friends anyway, and that lesbians are allowed in women's bathrooms. (And straight transwomen aren't.)
Another factor might be that men tend to use urinals for quick pees, and remember, we can't have those delicate ladyfolks anywhere near an exposed penis.
The whole thing seems kind of silly and based on the collective immaturity of our culture.
I had some other thought but it got mislaid when my glasses lens popped out and I had to stick it back in before I could finish typing 'cause I can't see the screen without it.

Edit: Oh yeah. Kender, you're adorable when you go on feminist rants.

[Glass Mouse]

The only good argument for seperate bathrooms would be from the men's side, and it would be about queue length

Edit: Seems my meds are kicking in. Maybe I won't kill myself after all!

Yay :3

[Arachu]

I've seen some pretty nasty women's and unisex bathrooms in my day. The faculty women's bathroom in the science wing back in high school was really nice, though.

When I was a kid, I entered a bathroom so rank I ended up having to use the women's one... The smell would've been remotely tolerable, if not for the illustration. :/

Gah, now that I think of it that might've been another factor behind that phobia...

Not to mention that most rapes take place in the rapist's or victim's home, most rapists are acquaintances or friends anyway, and that lesbians are allowed in women's bathrooms. (And straight transwomen aren't.)
Another factor might be that men tend to use urinals for quick pees, and remember, we can't have those delicate ladyfolks anywhere near an exposed penis.
The whole thing seems kind of silly and based on the collective immaturity of our culture.
I had some other thought but it got mislaid when my glasses lens popped out and I had to stick it back in before I could finish typing 'cause I can't see the screen without it.

I think it's partially just conditioning at this point - there's 'nothing wrong' with gender-segregated bathrooms because they're normal. Nobody really thinks about whether they make any sense, or whether they can qualify as discriminative. :shrug:

The only good argument for seperate bathrooms would be from the men's side, and it would be about queue length

Oh, and just imagine the chaos that would ensue when the most stubborn people of both genders are racing to the same place.

It occurs to me that a unisex bathroom would actually cost less than two individual ones (even if it had just as many stalls, sinks and lights, it'd have less walls)... :chin-scratch:

[noparlpf]

When I was a kid, I entered a bathroom so rank I ended up having to use the women's one... The smell would've been remotely tolerable, if not for the illustration. :/

Gah, now that I think of it that might've been another factor behind that phobia...

Been there. Both men's, women's, and unisex bathrooms like that.

I think it's partially just conditioning at this point - there's 'nothing wrong' with gender-segregated bathrooms because they're normal. Nobody really thinks about whether they make any sense, or whether they can qualify as discriminative. :shrug:

It occurs to me that a unisex bathroom would actually cost less than two individual ones (even if it had just as many stalls, sinks and lights, it'd have less walls)... :chin-scratch:

My issue is partially whether they're discriminative, though I'm not trans and can't fully empathise with that feeling of exclusion, and partially that it seems to be based on some silly and even harmful ideas.
Also that it's cheaper. If they use one men's room and one women's room to avoid the cost of many single-person unisex restrooms, then one large unisex restroom would be cheaper than two gendered restrooms.

[Copper]

Based on this episode, I don't like House, and not even because of their portrayal of asexuality.

Spoiler

Show

Basically House and some other doctor make a bet because House thinks the other dude's patient and her husband, who claim to be asexual, are either lying or have some medical cause for it. The main plot of the episode was about some dude with Alzheimer's, but this little side-plot ended with the dude having prostate cancer and the chick having been lying because she was so in love with this dude that she was cool pretending to be asexual for ten years of marriage and however long of dating before that.
Oh yeah and the way the woman described asexuality at the beginning of the episode felt kind of forced to me. Doc says "hey we should run a pregnancy test" (maybe it was STDs?) and lady says "nah, I'm not pregnant". Doc says "but birth control can fail" and she's like "not mine we don't have sex". I can't remember the exact phrasing of the next couple of lines, but the next few lines were the bit that felt forced to me.

Ugh. Asexuality does not work this way. I hate when the media takes a premise that could be used to teach tolerance and acceptance and just ruins it. Stupid media.

RE: Bathrooms. I was at an LGBTQ dance which had Unisex bathrooms for convience. I remember going out just as a male-bodied person walked in and that making me feel really, really happy. I didn't even think about it before but for some reason the fact that there was no gender segregation at all there just made me so excited. Why can't the rest of the world be like that?

[KenderWizard]

Natalie Reed: Good things about being trans.

It's not all doom and gloom. And it's important to say that from time to time.

Having now read this link (which was very interesting, and good to hear about the positive side of things!) I'm going to point out an example from Natalie that continues my theme. I'm going to spoiler because I want to be careful and abortion comes into it. Please, if you disagree with me about abortion, can you just take the broader point of empathy and ignore the specifics. This is most certainly not the thread, nor even the forum, to have that debate.

Spoiler

Show

Natalie says (I'm paraphrasing) that abortion rights are a part of feminism that she could easily ignore, being a trans woman. But she doesn't say "Well, I can't even get pregnant even if I wanted to." or "Why should I care?". She says (paraphrasing!) "I have had people think they should be allowed to control my body, and that's awful. I don't know what it's like to need an abortion, but I do know what it's like to have people try to deny me a choice about my own body, so I can stand with you.". And in return, I'm going to try to remember this, and to think about how I would be forced to travel, maybe alone, dependent on a charity to take care of my medical records, with no follow-up care, and still bleeding on the return flight, if I were to need an abortion, even if the pregnancy wasn't viable or it posed a danger to my life. I'll think about that when I think about trans people who have to put up with similar or worse to get the surgery they might need to live in their own body.

By the way, forgot to hit the multiquote on this one in my last reply!

While I won't talk you into missing deadlines for your day job, I love your feminist "essays" here. They're thought provoking!

Thank you very much!

The disturbing formulation is a sign that my morbid sense of humor is reasserting itself.

Well, that's good!

Based on this episode, I don't like House, and not even because of their portrayal of asexuality.

Spoiler

Show

Basically House and some other doctor make a bet because House thinks the other dude's patient and her husband, who claim to be asexual, are either lying or have some medical cause for it. The main plot of the episode was about some dude with Alzheimer's, but this little side-plot ended with the dude having prostate cancer and the chick having been lying because she was so in love with this dude that she was cool pretending to be asexual for ten years of marriage and however long of dating before that.
Oh yeah and the way the woman described asexuality at the beginning of the episode felt kind of forced to me. Doc says "hey we should run a pregnancy test" (maybe it was STDs?) and lady says "nah, I'm not pregnant". Doc says "but birth control can fail" and she's like "not mine we don't have sex". I can't remember the exact phrasing of the next couple of lines, but the next few lines were the bit that felt forced to me.

Thanks for sharing it, anyway! I read a similar conversation the other day, actually:
Dr: So, are you sexually active?
Woman: Yes.
Dr: What birth control are you using?
Woman: Oh, none.
Dr: What?
Woman: None, I won't get pregnant.
Dr: Do you have an infertility condition?
Woman: Not that I know of!
Dr: But don't you realise that if you're having sex, and you're fertile, you could get pregnant?
Woman: Only if I'm having sex with a man.

You're like the eloquent half of me. I wish I had that ability.

Eh, I'm very rambly. If you say all possible things, some of them will sound good!

Not to mention that most rapes take place in the rapist's or victim's home, most rapists are acquaintances or friends anyway, and that lesbians are allowed in women's bathrooms. (And straight transwomen aren't.)
Another factor might be that men tend to use urinals for quick pees, and remember, we can't have those delicate ladyfolks anywhere near an exposed penis.
The whole thing seems kind of silly and based on the collective immaturity of our culture.

I, unsurprisingly, agree.

Edit: Oh yeah. Kender, you're adorable when you go on feminist rants.

That's, uh, not quite what I'm going for, but I'll take a win!

[noparlpf]

Ugh. Asexuality does not work this way. I hate when the media takes a premise that could be used to teach tolerance and acceptance and just ruins it. Stupid media.

RE: Bathrooms. I was at an LGBTQ dance which had Unisex bathrooms for convience. I remember going out just as a male-bodied person walked in and that making me feel really, really happy. I didn't even think about it before but for some reason the fact that there was no gender segregation at all there just made me so excited. Why can't the rest of the world be like that?

Oh yeah, there was that one time early freshman year when I was on the way out of the unisex multiple-person bathroom in the classroom building, and a girl opened the door just as I finished washing my hands. It startled both of us a little; me because holy crap sudden noise and movement just behind me, and her because holy crap there's a boy in the bathroom.

[Arachu]

Been there. Both men's, women's, and unisex bathrooms like that.

Oh. Well, I choose to believe that we were arguing and that I won.

I should probably keep a wider eye out for childhood memory bias, actually... ^_^'

My issue is partially whether they're discriminative, though I'm not trans and can't fully empathise with that feeling of exclusion, and partially that it seems to be based on some silly and even harmful ideas.
Also that it's cheaper. If they use one men's room and one women's room to avoid the cost of many single-person unisex restrooms, then one large unisex restroom would be cheaper than two gendered restrooms.

I actually can't quite empathize with the exclusion myself (I've never presented as female in public), but the segregation implies quite a bit of sexism. :/

Ugh. Asexuality does not work this way. I hate when the media takes a premise that could be used to teach tolerance and acceptance and just ruins it. Stupid media.

RE: Bathrooms. I was at an LGBTQ dance which had Unisex bathrooms for convience. I remember going out just as a male-bodied person walked in and that making me feel really, really happy. I didn't even think about it before but for some reason the fact that there was no gender segregation at all there just made me so excited. Why can't the rest of the world be like that?

*Hugs* Hopefully, everyone will ask that some day.

Having now read this link (which was very interesting, and good to hear about the positive side of things!) I'm going to point out an example from Natalie that continues my theme. I'm going to spoiler because I want to be careful and abortion comes into it. Please, if you disagree with me about abortion, can you just take the broader point of empathy and ignore the specifics. This is most certainly not the thread, nor even the forum, to have that debate.

Spoiler

Show

Natalie says (I'm paraphrasing) that abortion rights are a part of feminism that she could easily ignore, being a trans woman. But she doesn't say "Well, I can't even get pregnant even if I wanted to." or "Why should I care?". She says (paraphrasing!) "I have had people think they should be allowed to control my body, and that's awful. I don't know what it's like to need an abortion, but I do know what it's like to have people try to deny me a choice about my own body, so I can stand with you.". And in return, I'm going to try to remember this, and to think about how I would be forced to travel, maybe alone, dependent on a charity to take care of my medical records, with no follow-up care, and still bleeding on the return flight, if I were to need an abortion, even if the pregnancy wasn't viable or it posed a danger to my life. I'll think about that when I think about trans people who have to put up with similar or worse to get the surgery they might need to live in their own body.

*Fist-bump* I'll defend you if you defend me. Or even if you don't, actually - the only person that should decide who you are is you.

Thanks for sharing it, anyway! I read a similar conversation the other day, actually:
Dr: So, are you sexually active?
Woman: Yes.
Dr: What birth control are you using?
Woman: Oh, none.
Dr: What?
Woman: None, I won't get pregnant.
Dr: Do you have an infertility condition?
Woman: Not that I know of!
Dr: But don't you realise that if you're having sex, and you're fertile, you could get pregnant?
Woman: Only if I'm having sex with a man.

I'd find that funnier if not for another episode...

Spoiler

Show

So, House has some patient that happens to be a teenage boy. He puts this guy off for long enough to notice that he isn't sitting down, and he determines that dude has something stuck in a rather unpleasant place.

He walks in, bluntly asks him what it is, and as soon as he determines that it's an MP3 player he asks if it's "the shape, or the throbbing base-line" (assuming, of course, that there's no other way that such a thing could get in such a place and implying that it matters in the first place).

He proceeds to blow the patient off and dump him on another (female) doctor. Subtle, but no less discriminative against homosexuals or teenagers. Or women, or doctors, or patients...

[noparlpf]

Having now read this link (which was very interesting, and good to hear about the positive side of things!) I'm going to point out an example from Natalie that continues my theme. I'm going to spoiler because I want to be careful and abortion comes into it. Please, if you disagree with me about abortion, can you just take the broader point of empathy and ignore the specifics. This is most certainly not the thread, nor even the forum, to have that debate.

Spoiler

Show

Natalie says (I'm paraphrasing) that abortion rights are a part of feminism that she could easily ignore, being a trans woman. But she doesn't say "Well, I can't even get pregnant even if I wanted to." or "Why should I care?". She says (paraphrasing!) "I have had people think they should be allowed to control my body, and that's awful. I don't know what it's like to need an abortion, but I do know what it's like to have people try to deny me a choice about my own body, so I can stand with you.". And in return, I'm going to try to remember this, and to think about how I would be forced to travel, maybe alone, dependent on a charity to take care of my medical records, with no follow-up care, and still bleeding on the return flight, if I were to need an abortion, even if the pregnancy wasn't viable or it posed a danger to my life. I'll think about that when I think about trans people who have to put up with similar or worse to get the surgery they might need to live in their own body.

That's my philosophy for a lot of things. Who am I to decide what's right for another person? I know I'm not God, and who else has the right to decide what's right? I may preach my morals, but I won't inflict them on another person. And I'll fight for your right to be wrong.
[insert comic from broken site here]

Thanks for sharing it, anyway! I read a similar conversation the other day, actually:
Dr: So, are you sexually active?
Woman: Yes.
Dr: What birth control are you using?
Woman: Oh, none.
Dr: What?
Woman: None, I won't get pregnant.
Dr: Do you have an infertility condition?
Woman: Not that I know of!
Dr: But don't you realise that if you're having sex, and you're fertile, you could get pregnant?
Woman: Only if I'm having sex with a man.

Heh, I like it. Well, now-embarrassed doctor, that's what you get for assuming that everyone is straight.

Eh, I'm very rambly. If you say all possible things, some of them will sound good!

Hmm...maybe that's why my papers score better when I write while on a crazy caffeine high. I ramble a lot more.

That's, uh, not quite what I'm going for, but I'll take a win!

I'm not sure if my normal use of "adorable" is how the word is supposed to be used, but it's the word that comes to mind.

...
Also rargh this messed-up internet connection is making things lag so much. Even just the text in this box is lagging while the browser tries to connect to another page in another tab. I can't post this until the other page loads so I can find the right comic to link to!
...
Or maybe at this point it's that that site is down. Huh. Well, this lagging on my end is still bloody annoying. It's 2012, gosh darn it! I should have lag-free internet!)
...
I've even gone through the page's source code in hopes of finding the image source. But it's hosted by the site, like I thought. Oh well. I'm going to go get a burger. 'Cause I can chew again! (Sort of.) If the site comes up later I'll post the comic I was thinking of if it does actually apply like I think it does.

Edit: Oh but before the burger--Kender, what's the distinction between a hill and a mountain?

[Astrella]

Yay for Asta coming back! *hugs*

In other news... I just watched the House episode where they had these... "asexuals". I am sad. That was a horrible depiction of asexuality.

House tends to be pretty iffy. :<

*snip*

Some tangents: I think a big problem with society / subgroups is as well that they tend to present only one narrative as valid. The whole study - get a job - marry & and settle down is pretty prevalent, but it shows up in a lot of places. I can think of gatekeeping in relation to trans* people and medical care. (The whole, having to be straight, presenting very feminine etc. to be able to transition.) Other things I can think of is femme erasure in lesbian circles, gold star lesbians (aka lesbians who haven't been in contact with the vile male member), feminism being a mainly cis, white, upperclass women thing (more in the early days then now) leading to womanist segregation and such. Which is a shame, because more narratives just give you more angles to look at issues. (Which is also why it annoys me so much when people's stories / experiences aren't seen as valid; the whole "queerer / more trans than thou" thing; it's basically people telling other people that their theories are more important than people's experiences.)

With the risk of exposing my moral myopia, I was reading a Men's Rights blog (in Swedish) not long ago, regarding the rights of fathers. (Linked from another Men's Rights blog I find myself in at least partial agreement with, though it seem to attract stupid readers/posters.) It seemed to make perfect sense to me at the beginning, but as soon as the blog's introduction started to rant about single mothers and "the gay agenda" and how they work to destroy families (with both fathers and mothers), I closed the browser tab.

That's the really unfortunate part about most MRA's; there are specific issues regarding men that need to be adressed but a lot of them get very knee-jerky and are dealing with a whole load of other -isms themselves.

Ugh, don't get me started! Yes, as far as I can tell, it is exactly that the delicate wimmins need to be protected from the lustful beastly mens who won't be able to help themselves but to violate women's privacy and probably bodily integrity if they're, like, taking their pants down near women who are possibly not-quite-"decently clothed".

I cannot say this strongly enough: a triangle with a circle on top and some lines coming out, forming a stereotype of a deviation from the "norm" of male*, DOES NOT, CANNOT, and WILL NOT stop a sexual predator. Because it's not even as strong as a law, and violating someone's body is against actual laws. Rapists who are not scared of laws are certainly not scared of going into the sacred womanly space.

Okay, so, you got me started! Point is, separate bathrooms are silly. Boys don't actually have cooties. Cubicles are standard. Women are capable of spying on other women. I think we should collectively get over it.


* I'm talking about the "bathroom" symbol for "women's bathroom", the little stick person:

Exactly, that's why the whole argument annoys me so much when it's brought up in "bathroom bills"; if someone is out to cause harm, they won't let a symbol stop them. And off course the hurtful side-effect of painting trans* people as sexual predators. :s

Dysphoria:

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Having a really bad bout of it again, skipped out on class today cause I felt really bad; been really nervous and panicky. I even cut myself in my arm earlier. Nothing severe, but still, it scares me. D: I'm feeling pretty okay right now though.

So, since I'm still too nervous to go to stores alone, I was poking online to order clothes; was thinking of getting a skirt and leggings / kneesocks and a matching top, but I don't know much about fashion. :< Any thoughts?

[noparlpf]

Dysphoria:

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Having a really bad bout of it again, skipped out on class today cause I felt really bad; been really nervous and panicky. I even cut myself in my arm earlier. Nothing severe, but still, it scares me. D: I'm feeling pretty okay right now though.

So, since I'm still too nervous to go to stores alone, I was poking online to order clothes; was thinking of getting a skirt and leggings / kneesocks and a matching top, but I don't know much about fashion. :< Any thoughts?

Ooh. Feel better! *hugs*

And get kneesocks! I like kneesocks with skirts much better than skirts and bare legs or skirts and leggings/tights.

[Arachu]

Dysphoria:

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Having a really bad bout of it again, skipped out on class today cause I felt really bad; been really nervous and panicky. I even cut myself in my arm earlier. Nothing severe, but still, it scares me. D: I'm feeling pretty okay right now though.

*Hugs!* :<

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I've been meaning to say... I think you're beautiful. Gah, I'm still afraid to say that sort of thing after last year...

So, since I'm still too nervous to go to stores alone, I was poking online to order clothes; was thinking of getting a skirt and leggings / kneesocks and a matching top, but I don't know much about fashion. :< Any thoughts?

Gah, I knew I'd regret not looking into fashion earlier. :O

I've always thought that kneesocks looked better than stockings for some reason. Arm-warmers are neat, too.

[Serpentine]

On bathrooms: my residential college at uni had all unisex bathrooms, including showers (and a bath). I don't recall anyone having any problems with it at all - least of all sexual assault. If anything, I think girls tended to use it as an opportunity to tease the boys by going from the bathroom to the bedroom in ought but a towel.

[golentan]

Random question: Do you guys think that anime (in america) has a higher proportion of LGBT fans than general media?

[noparlpf]

Random question: Do you guys think that anime (in america) has a higher proportion of LGBT fans than general media?

I read a lot of manga, but haven't watched all that many anime. Among anime/manga fans and other weeaboos back in high school and here, I'd say no, not really.

[supernerd]

Random question: Do you guys think that anime (in america) has a higher proportion of LGBT fans than general media?

It's just that they usually don't make that big a deal about it, "oh, him? Yeah he's physically a girl, but whatev's." "Oh her, yeah she's a lesbian, but she is really cool."

Yeah, and there are usually so many other things more plot essential than what letter they are.

[supernerd]

Random question: Do you guys think that anime (in america) has a higher proportion of LGBT fans than general media?

It's just that they usually don't make that big a deal about it, "oh, him? Yeah he's physically a girl, but whatev's." "Oh her, yeah she's a lesbian, but she is really cool."

Yeah, and there are usually so many other things more plot essential than what letter they are.

[Asta Kask]

KenderWizard: It's a matter of empathy. I know that when I say I'm interested in trans rights (almost wrote trans tights...) a certain amount of people will draw the conclusion that I'm secretly transsexual. That's the attitude we need to change; the casual assumption that one needs something other than common decency to worry about people being killed and persecuted.

[turkishproverb]

Random question: Do you guys think that anime (in america) has a higher proportion of LGBT fans than general media?

Yes. I was working on a paper a while back on why there are more LGBT than the standard population in many niche interstate groups like scifi, anime, fantasy, roleplaying, etc. The central theory I have is that when only a few other people like the same thing, other differences start to seem less important, combined with the general nature of these groups themselves being marginalized in their own small way.

[Triscuitable]

I've returned from my time off to put two-and-two together. (FOUR!)

It took from last week to today for me to realize I'm in love. Yeah, that's what was eating at me. I've found I really like someone.

But there's another thing: I'm still completely in the dark about my own gender. I have no issues deeming myself male or female, but it's something that's constantly tugging me back and forth, back and forth. It's hard to go from bouncing my hips while I walk (which I still do, it's fun!), to acting like a supreme gentleman. It's a funny world, isn't it?

I personally don't understand the need for sex-segregated restrooms.

I've read about schools that had unisex bathrooms. The idea was abandoned when sexual harassment, and even rape complaints came through. It's a shame that we've come so far as to not even respect the sanctity of the bathroom.