League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!

[Chumbaniya]

To be honest, I'm not surprised. You said you just hit level 30, right? At that stage, most people are still just learning how to play the game individually, never even mind teamplay. I commend you for doing premade Ranked, though, and hope you do more of it. I don't play as much as I would like, due mostly (I now realize) to unrealistic concerns about getting the team just right before we start ranking. Which doesn't make sense at all.

It just makes a lot more sense to me have a premade group for doing ranked games - if I'm going to play competitively, I'd rather do it with team mates that I know, so we can coordinate properly, improve together, and accept and move on from mistakes. I'll probably do some ranked solo queue, but I'm not going to stress about my ELO.

I did get a first ranked victory though - a little later, 3 of decided to do a TT match and just stomped it hilariously. WW (me)/Cho/Fiora vs Shaco/Sejuani/Jax. I'm not sure if they had no experience or were just messing around, but it wasn't really a competition.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Soraka definitely needs a rework from the ground up no matter what. All she is right now is a walking health/mana vending machine, which means she can't ever be good the way she is since she promotes ultra-passive play. She needs a new niche. Sona is mostly ok aside from her ult which somewhat restricts the rest of her kit. Taric seems like he's fine as is and just needs some love. Nunu and Blitz both seem fine. They're both rather specialized, but good at what they do. Am I missing anyone? That doesn't seem like that huge a load.

Yeah, calling for complete reworks on all of 'em was slightly hyperbolic.

Sona has that ult, yeah. 'Nuff said. Nunu has a completely useless skill, which is bad on principle. Blitz... Support Blitz is weird because he's ridiculous if he lands grab-initiates, but otherwise fairly weak in fights.

I guess Taric is workable? I really dislike his stat-dispenser nature, but I'm not sure if it's something that's actually bad or just me not liking it. I don't much like a bunch of Sona's non-ult stuff for the same reason. Her passive is awesome, though.

[Qwertystop]

Pix is a butterfly, with powers that make no sense, from a [place that shouldn't exist.

WE FOUND KOG'MAW's DADDY!

[Dogmantra]

I did get a first ranked victory though - a little later, 3 of decided to do a TT match and just stomped it hilariously. WW (me)/Cho/Fiora vs Shaco/Sejuani/Jax. I'm not sure if they had no experience or were just messing around, but it wasn't really a competition.

Fun fact: no one knows how to play TT.

[Eurus]

Fun fact: no one knows how to play TT.

Do you have advice? On both:

1) How to try to not fail in TT when doing pre-made with friends,

and

2) How to fail slightly less in TT with pubbies who presumably also don't know how to play?

[Stone Heart]

Fun fact: no one knows how to play TT.

I resent that, seeing as I often do better there. However, maybe thats just because I am ridiculously lucky.

[Dogmantra]

I sorta include myself in not knowing how to play TT, but my tips are basically:

1. Blind Pick is horrible and it's such a shame that it's the only available normal TT mode because it is horrible and awful, try to play Draft because it's better.

2. Save your last pick for counterpicks always.
2b. Pick your most generic champion first. For example, Warwick would be good since he can fit into a variety of team styles

3. There are like four different team comps:
Burst & Snowball (a team based on picking one enemy then using 3v2 power to force the enemy to retreat, Morde, Blitzcrank, Warwick, Malzahar, that sort of thing)
Tanky DPS (three tanky dps champions you know the drill)
Teamfight (carry, soak, burst and babysitter, obvs you need to put the soak on either the burst or the babysitter, you don't get four guys, example would be Morgana/Corki/Wolft, if you choose like Galio or something then mage and babysitter often overlap)
Kitey (sorta like Burst & Snowball, but based on never properly fighting the enemy, you skirmish with them, harrass them, never get caught and only engage when you have to, example here is Teemo)

4. Most of all make sure you have synergy. Don't pick like, Gragas and Morgana, but equally don't pick Teemo, Brand and Tryndamere. What does that team do?

5. Everyone should have Flash, exception exists for champions who can go over walls with another skill that they're not going to want to use straight away in teamfights. In addition you need to tailor Ignites and Exhausts to your opponents, in Blind Pick I suggest one Smite one Ignite and one Exhaust.

6. Try to solo bottom if you can get away with it.

7. Despite what I seem to be suggesting here, the map is a lot less formulaic than Rift. Be adaptable and be spontaneous!

That's basically all I got.

[Neoseanster]

Control dragon. Ward it and around it, kill it as soon as you can safely get away with it, make sure not to let the other team get it uncontested. Dragon in Twisted Treeline is everything. +280 gold to the entire team, a nice buff, and it's weak enough to be easily soloed fairly early on by some champions.

[Mutant Bunny]

Yeah, calling for complete reworks on all of 'em was slightly hyperbolic.

Sona has that ult, yeah. 'Nuff said. Nunu has a completely useless skill, which is bad on principle. Blitz... Support Blitz is weird because he's ridiculous if he lands grab-initiates, but otherwise fairly weak in fights.

I guess Taric is workable? I really dislike his stat-dispenser nature, but I'm not sure if it's something that's actually bad or just me not liking it. I don't much like a bunch of Sona's non-ult stuff for the same reason. Her passive is awesome, though.

Support blitz can still be useful if you miss the grab. All he has to do is run around and power fist everything until he's in a good position to trigger his ult's active as an AoE interrupt. As long as you have enough mana to let your passive make you sufficiently tanky, you're golden.

Besides, in ideal conditions, you won't have to use rocket grab to initiate: you can use overdrive+reverie to land a power fist as initiation, then use grab to stop escapes or to peel the enemy off your carry.

Blitzcrank is just too good.

[Drascin]

Yeah, calling for complete reworks on all of 'em was slightly hyperbolic.

Sona has that ult, yeah. 'Nuff said. Nunu has a completely useless skill, which is bad on principle. Blitz... Support Blitz is weird because he's ridiculous if he lands grab-initiates, but otherwise fairly weak in fights.

I guess Taric is workable? I really dislike his stat-dispenser nature, but I'm not sure if it's something that's actually bad or just me not liking it. I don't much like a bunch of Sona's non-ult stuff for the same reason. Her passive is awesome, though.

Personally, I like the "passive" support role. If I'm playing a support I want to be buffing and healing and shielding and otherwise helping my lane partner. Janna and Sona are the kind of thing I think when I think support, while Blitzcrank... honestly, isn't .

Lulu looks interesting. I've never bought a champion day one, but tomorrow morning when she hits here I might actually get her. And if I do, I'm going to yell this every time I use her ult.

[Dogmantra]

Control dragon. Ward it and around it, kill it as soon as you can safely get away with it, make sure not to let the other team get it uncontested. Dragon in Twisted Treeline is everything. +280 gold to the entire team, a nice buff, and it's weak enough to be easily soloed fairly early on by some champions.

I swear I meant to write something about Dragon.
But yeah it's pretty amazing. I don't think it's unfair to say that the entire midgame revolves around getting more dragons than your opponents.

[Suedars]

Personally, I like the "passive" support role. If I'm playing a support I want to be buffing and healing and shielding and otherwise helping my lane partner. Janna and Sona are the kind of thing I think when I think support, while Blitzcrank... honestly, isn't .

Lulu looks interesting. I've never bought a champion day one, but tomorrow morning when she hits here I might actually get her. And if I do, I'm going to yell this every time I use her ult.

Passive supports like Janna and Sona are fine. Both have plenty to do beyond healing/shielding, whether it's Sona throwing out tons of poke, or Janna having ridiculous amounts of CC. Soraka is not ok as a passive support since outside her ultimate she's basically nothing more than a walking fountain with an MR/MR shred aura tacked on.

[Lix Lorn]

I take offence from that. Soraka is fun! Constant Q and then E when their MR is down...

[Eldariel]

Re@3v3: Either you should run a jungler and a solo top and a solo bot, or a roamer and two solos. Either way, the lane distance is short and the lanes are long and gankable so aggressively generating opportunities and controlling the jungle is key.

It's worth noting that an extremely significant portion of the gold of the map is in the jungle; therefore, jungle control is absolutely crucial. Top jungle in particular is worth tons and has two buffs, one of which is incredibly strong (the Wraith buff); middle has the redbuff but it of course pales in comparison to Dragon (which is quite weak to boot).


Since the jungle is shared, fighting over the jungle should be an extreme priority and consequentially, when picking junglers you should focus on their dueling ability quite a bit since you need to be able to engage enemy jungler. Mobility is another key attribute; I really love Lee Sin, Shyvana and Shaco as junglers on the map since they have very strong dueling, low to no mana reliance (Shaco has some, but it's not a problem) and they all have ways to gank across the wall while carrying a combat summoner like Heal or Exhaust alongside the Smite (I really hate running flash on junglers since that puts you in a tight spot far as fitting all the combat summoners you want on your team goes). And they all make good use of the redbuff; every team should have at least one redbuff champ since it presents a considerable opportunity when you can secure it and indeed, it should be considered about comparable to the Dragon of Summoner's Rift (Dragon on TT is about what Baron is on SR, except of course somewhat less dramatic as the buff is a simple damage aura rather than a Ton Of Everything-aura).

Other than that, as Dog said, build synergistic teams. I wouldn't go for a crude classification; there's just a bunch of themes you can build around. Kiting is very strong; that's why Anivia is IMHO one of the strongest champs for the map. Narrow passages are ideal for wall-effects; Trundle is fairly good though of course, the fact that he doesn't start off all that tanky compared to most tanky DPS and that he doesn't blink or have hard CC are downsides.

CC is, obviously, at a premium and absolutely crucial against certain champs not to mention more powerful comparatively than in 5v5 since CCing one champ is a third of the team's output, not a fifth.

Similarly, sustain is much stronger; the reason for example Karma is so good in 3v3 is that a sustain team with Karma can be pretty much unkillable. This is also why e.g. Singed and Mundo are ridiculous and used to be autobans in Ranked (now there's just so much to ban).

If you don't have a sustain line-up, you need to ensure you have some serious damage to take down sustain champs; Anivia, Vayne, Corki, DPS champs of that caliber (preferably synergistic with the bruisers, and obviously need damage of both types). This is why our team used to have issues when Anivia was banned for instance; we built our comps around her damage and there simply is no other mage with similar utility and damage - you gotta pick one or the other.

We ran Kennen and Kassadin quite often but did significantly worse with those comps simply because we tended to have 2 bruisers with them and if we were up against a sustain comp, we just couldn't output enough damage to kill anybody.

[Qwertystop]

Pix is a butterfly, with powers that make no sense, from a place that shouldn't exist.

Kog'Maw! Daddy's here!

Really? No reaction?

[fred dref]

Phreak be amusing.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I laughed.

[Forum Explorer]

Hi I just started playing League of Legends on the NA server (ForumExplorer is my account name as well) Anyways I was hoping for some advice about the items. I noticed that lots of the suggested items had a really high cost so I was wondering if buying cheaper items and then selling those later to buy more expensive items would work?

[Eldariel]

Hi I just started playing League of Legends on the NA server (ForumExplorer is my account name as well) Anyways I was hoping for some advice about the items. I noticed that lots of the suggested items had a really high cost so I was wondering if buying cheaper items and then selling those later to buy more expensive items would work?

It all depends on the champion but basically, the recommended items tend to be Legendary Tier items. Basically, the way items work in LoL is that if you buy a component to a Legendary Tier item and get more gold, you can then upgrade the components for a combination cost. Take, for instance, Mercury's Treads (Boots that give Magic Resist and Tenacity).

You can buy Boots of Swiftness for 350 gold. These give you Movement Speed 1. Then you can buy Null Magic Mantle once you have 400 gold to get you +20 Magic Resist. Then you can finally, with both in your inventory, pay the 450 combination cost to lose both and instead gain Mercury's Treads.


As such, selling items isn't necessarily very efficient (outside few specific cases). Instead, you buy pieces for the big item and then combine them. Note that some items do require a lot of gold at once; Needlessly Large Rod is 1600, BF Sword is 1650 and Giant's Belt is 1110. You simply need to farm that much gold to get them (you do know that getting the last hit on a minion gives you bounty gold for that minion, right? That's the usual way of generating gold in the game, aside from actual Champion kills).

That said, what you do suggest does indeed work for a small subset of items: Doran's Sword and Doran's Ring (and to lesser extent, Doran's Shield) are very efficient early items but they don't build into anything. It's common to buy two-three of these early game to make your early game that much stronger and then, when you begin to fill out your inventory, sell them and replace them.

The other big category where selling is occasionally an option are gold/10 items like Philosopher's Stone, Heart of Gold, Avarice Blade and Kage's Lucky Pick. They give you some stats and then they generate gold when they are in your inventory. This can be used, when bought early, to generate significant amounts of gold and then sell them for some item once you've had them for ~20 minutes or so (so that they've paid back their value and then some). This is only useful on champions that are strong enough to lane without maximizing the immediate benefits of their buys, mind.

[ex cathedra]

One of these is not like the others
Mage-Soraka is totally a thing :P

Yup, mid Soraka is Karthus' hard-counter.

I swear I meant to write something about Dragon.
But yeah it's pretty amazing. I don't think it's unfair to say that the entire midgame revolves around getting more dragons than your opponents.

I actually dislike how snowbally Dragon seems to make TT. It's just such a massive advantage.

You can buy Boots of Swiftness Speed for 350 gold.

FTFY.

[Zen Master]

Ok - how did we win this one?!

Spoiler

Show

Down 15 kills and piles of gold. Frankly, I have no idea =)

[Talesin]

Do you have advice? On both:

1) How to try to not fail in TT when doing pre-made with friends,

and

2) How to fail slightly less in TT with pubbies who presumably also don't know how to play?

Singed Singed Singed Singed.

He is just so so strong in 3s. There's been some really good advice here so I won't reiterate what has been said but some extra tips I found really really helped.

Wards. You need them and you need pink ones to stop your enemies using them. Having dragon warded and Red warded is almost essential, as it stops the 2 quickest ganks from lane to lane. Warding the top buffs can be useful if you're in a position to jump their jungler/roamer while he's taking the buffs.

Most teams run 2 bot and then a solo top. If you can run 1 person bottom you'll be so much stronger as you can control the top jungle. We found great solo bots are Panth, GP and Singed but these are far from the extensive list and i'm sure there are more.

Further to Eld's comment of wall jumping, and the 3 characters he listed. Being able to enter lanes not through the traditional lane entrances is really strong in TT, I would say even more so than SR. Lee's ability to W to a ward in the top lane brush makes him an outstanding ganker and he's a good TT jungler to boot.

I would advise grabbing at least 1 Wriggles on your team. It's far from essential but it allows you to bring Dragon down quickly and that can be incredibly important in TT. If we ran Panth/Lee/Cass my team would grab 2 wriggles so the opposing team would have to come protect dragon as we could drop it so quickly. Again not essential but dragon really helps you snowball.

As for playing with pubbies, I really don't know what to suggest. Some people won't listen to you whatever happens so I would just try and fill in with whatever champion they need or pick your strongest champion and outline what you're going to do in the match. Having a strong leader in 3s can help you beat opponents who are more skilled but not as co-ordinated.

[Dogmantra]

Other than that, as Dog said, build synergistic teams. I wouldn't go for a crude classification; there's just a bunch of themes you can build around.

I dunno if you noticed yet Eld, but basically my entire life is dedicated to crudely classifying things ;)

Phreak be amusing.

I gotta say normally I find Phreak's brand of humour to be rather forced (well okay I find him constantly repeating catchphrases to pander to the fans rather forced) but this was wonderful.

[Winthur]

Ok - how did we win this one?!

Spoiler

Show

Down 15 kills and piles of gold. Frankly, I have no idea =)

Enemy Nasus is an argument for euthanasia (stacking Triforces?!). He probably could do no damage at all. Granted, your Nocturne and Fiora are glass cannons and wtf 2 Infinity Edges on Nocturne, but three Triforces...

What I assume happened was that Veigar got a double kill with a single Dark Matter - because those people are squishy as hell - and you won teamfights this way.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zen Master]

Enemy Nasus is an argument for euthanasia (stacking Triforces?!). He probably could do no damage at all. Granted, your Nocturne and Fiora are glass cannons and wtf 2 Infinity Edges on Nocturne, but three Triforces...

What I assume happened was that Veigar got a double kill with a single Dark Matter - because those people are squishy as hell - and you won teamfights this way.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yea, the triforces thing struck me as pretty silly too - but he farmed his q alright, and did more than adequate damage. Despite the silly build.

I'm thinking we won simply because whenever Veigar was actually there for teamfights, we had hard cc and they didn't. But still - they were massively better farmed. Hm =)

[Winthur]

Yea, the triforces thing struck me as pretty silly too - but he farmed his q alright, and did more than adequate damage. Despite the silly build.

I'm thinking we won simply because whenever Veigar was actually there for teamfights, we had hard cc and they didn't. But still - they were massively better farmed. Hm =)

Think of it this way - what good is gold if you can't use it? If you have a top lane champion who was never budged from that top lane and just free farmed, he's still only strong the moment he recalls back to base and spends his 3500 gold on something. If you force a dragon while he still has only boots or a cloth armor or whatever he started with, he won't be able to react to it with what he has.

In this case, I think that the enemies were just murdered before their ill-spent gold could be usable. That Triforce - or three of them - doesn't matter if you melt down in fights.

Then again both teams are composed out of squishies. Somehow this guy managed to make Nasus a kamikaze. I kind of imagine teamfights to have looked like the X-Men intro.

[PersonMan]

Ok - how did we win this one?!

Spoiler

Show

Down 15 kills and piles of gold. Frankly, I have no idea =)

I don't know why the two people who've responded so far haven't mentioned the whole 'Cait apparently AFK' thing. Being 1 champ down at the end of a game can be the difference between destroying and being destroyed.

[Zen Master]

I don't know why the two people who've responded so far haven't mentioned the whole 'Cait apparently AFK' thing. Being 1 champ down at the end of a game can be the difference between destroying and being destroyed.

Ah. Worth mentioning. She wasn't afk to my knowledge. She did dc briefly, twice. Not something that should have affected the outcome.

[Science Officer]

hey guys you want some cool pro tips well I got 'em pro tips straight from the pros try it out now you can thank me later

[PersonMan]

Ah. Worth mentioning. She wasn't afk to my knowledge. She did dc briefly, twice. Not something that should have affected the outcome.

If someone says 'report X for AFK' in postgame chat, it normally means that that person was gone for a long time or at a crucial moment (i.e. any really late game teamfight).