Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Deviston]

Unfortunately, beside the Pathfinder converting, a but ton of new mechanics, the entire list is composed of unoriginal symbionts. Well, names and what they DO are all the same. In the end however, it's not original I don't think.

The game? Ahaa, a wonderful JRPG from PS1. Legend of Legaia

Edit: I actually didn't catch it sad to say. I was so excited about it I didn't even think about the possible breaking of rules haha, Milo caught it for me thankfully :)

[Tanuki Tales]

And I didn't even get a chance to take a look at any of it.

Ah well, I guess I'll just enjoy them when I get a chance to peruse their personal thread. Hopefully you'll still be able to submit something for this month, especially since we're so woefully short on entries.


In other news, the voting for last month's contest is closed and congratulations to the winners! I'll be doing the trophies when I get a chance, which with my birthday lunch/dinner tomorrow and some other things coming up this weekend may require me to take care of that on Memorial Day.

[Deviston]

Yeah I'm in the middle of cranking out another 14 seru, fully original and will be ready by close date of the contest.

[Milo v3]

It's really disappointing too, because I prefer the versions you posted to the originals.

Also, I'll probably be stealing them myself for my own setting.

EDIT: Wait, more Seru... Yay!

[zhdarkstar]

Just finished putting together my Warforged Gunslinger archetype that's based on the Blue Bomber.

Feel free to comment and critique

[Deviston]

It's really disappointing too, because I prefer the versions you posted to the originals.

Also, I'll probably be stealing them myself for my own setting.

EDIT: Wait, more Seru... Yay!

Ain't nothin to steal! I make this stuff for others to use :) Too much good material lost to copyrights and can't be taken by Pathfinder guys. SOMEONE has to do the converting :)

[gr8artist]

Is it possible to extend the deadline a little, or allow multiple entries, since there are so few this month?
I considered doing an "Angry Marine" fighter template or a "Corsair" inquisitor archtype, but I think I'll just stick with my Final Fantasy derived Biskmatar for now. Reviews/critiques of the biskmatar would be greatly appreciate it. Specifically, I worry that "spell siphon" and "ravager's rush" might be too OP for actual use, and I need a good idea for a lvl 19 ability, since that's pretty much a dead level.

My Reviews

Cursed Knight
Specialization: I love the idea of specialization, but many of the abilities need to be filled out evenly. The 25 gold cost to retrain in Azeroth is pointless when in homebrew campaign settings. I would suggest letting the knight choose a sacred or special location, such as the place of his death/grave, or the citadel at which he receives training, and allowing him to retrain there for half price/half time. (although I think this may have been a joke)
Runic Blade: Currently, there's only 3 options for the runes that can be engraved onto your weapon, correct? I would like to see more. And move the info about channeling through your weapon into the runic powers ability descrip, to avoid confusion. Also, can you use a different runic weapon effect than your specialization? They seem to change independently of one another. If that's the case, I would recommend taking the frost/blood/unholy tag away from the runic weapon abilities.
Presence: The blood effect proc's weird against attacks that don't damage, such as ray spells that drain stats or cause conditions. It should specify more clearly when it activates.
Runic Powers: How many points do they receive, max? You also use the word "rune" or "runic" too much. Consider using something like "mote" or "mark" or "charge" for some abilities to avoid confusion. "Etched weapon", "Runic Powers", and "rune charges (charges)". Powers and cruelties will have to have save/resistance information.
Death and Decay: Standard action? Save? And I assume it functions as "heart strike/frost strike/scourge strike"? Because the phrase "runic strike" appears only once in your document.

Super fighting robot
Emergency subtank: Hypothetically, if you were at 15/60 HP and took 15 damage, and activated this ability, would you then have 30/60 HP? Because as it's worded now, it says "reduced to half HP" but if you're already almost down, it would be "raised to half HP"... I recommend using "gain half of your maximum hp" instead
Buster combat programming: I think you made a typo on the last sentence. "Busters with the scatter property may switch between bullets and pellets as a swift action once per round"

[zhdarkstar]

Super fighting robot
Emergency subtank: Hypothetically, if you were at 15/60 HP and took 15 damage, and activated this ability, would you then have 30/60 HP? Because as it's worded now, it says "reduced to half HP" but if you're already almost down, it would be "raised to half HP"... I recommend using "gain half of your maximum hp" instead
Buster combat programming: I think you made a typo on the last sentence. "Busters with the scatter property may switch between bullets and pellets as a swift action once per round"

Thanks for catching those! Unlike the Mecha Sentai I made for the Hybrid Theory IV PrC Contest, I didn't have the +5 enhancement bonus to Concentration from my adderall when making SFR.

I changed it to "...instead have her current hit points set to half of her maximum hit points..." for situations where you are currently above 50% HP and get dropped in a single blow.

[gr8artist]

NP. Feel free to comment and critique on mine as well. I'm interested to see what Sam does.

Edit: Updated the class, cleaned it up, and clarified a few things. Added some new feats too. Most of them are usable normally, but obviously designed with the Biskmatar in mind.

[zhdarkstar]

For the Biskmatar, I like what you did with it. The only thing that bothers me are the two dead levels, considering this is Pathfinder. Maybe use 16th and 19th levels to enhance Elemental Blade's damage and Spell Siphon's range, respectively?

[gr8artist]

Thanks. I added a Limit Break to level 19. Considering it's high-end play at that point, I don't know if it's overpowered or not. I'll take your advice for level 16, though.

[zhdarkstar]

I like the changes made to Elemental Blade and Spell Siphon. Although one more possible suggestion for EB would be adding Int mod to EB damage as most of this class' abilities rely on other party members.

As for Limit Break, I like that the duration is tied to hit die and not levels as it gives it some use in Epic play and for NPCs with racial hit die. Demonic Knight would make for a mean BBEG Biskmatar and be able to set itself off for cold damage. Rather than granting the immunities, perhaps a +1/4 HD trance bonus to all saves would be the better bonus? It would be +4 when you get it and then become +5 at the next level, staying linked to the HD like the duration.

[gr8artist]

The main reason I added the immunities was I needed to be able to ignore stagger since this only triggered at low/negative health. If others agree with you, I'll change it though, and I want a spell effect other than haste. With ravager's rush limited in its uses, it won't give the biskmatar too many extra turns. The spellcraft check for siphoning touch was necessary, I agree, especially since it allows casting out to close range. (though the biskmatar shouldn't be more than 25 feet away from the caster anyway.)
And although he's best when supported by a wizard, he's still pretty good in a tactics/leadership role if he's buffing himself with wands/scrolls.

[zhdarkstar]

How about a trance bonus to all stats instead of haste? It would give the Biskmatar a more reliable increase in accuracy/damage output than haste, move their turn higher up the initiative count, gain a couple temporary HP, and generally perform better at anything involving their mental scores.

Keeping the stagger immunity is totally reasonable when you think about it. Perhaps keep that immunity but gain the bonus to saves against everything else. Plus when I think of a trance, I picture added physical and mental faculties due to mind over matter, which the current limit break doesn't really provide.

UPDATE: Added new Grit feats for Super Fighting Robot and lowered level requirement for Mega Buster.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just stopping in real quick because I need to reply to my bard class since it's important for a quickly approaching Pathfinder game I'm running:

Zhdarkstar, Warforged were never part of the OGL, so I believe the thread you linked to could be doing copyright infringement. Regardless, Warforged were never made as part of Paizo's material.

They did introduce an Android race in the Inner Circle Sea setting if memory serves though, so you could re-do your archetype for that.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Just stopping in real quick because I need to reply to my bard class since it's important for a quickly approaching Pathfinder game I'm running.

I look forward to this!

[Tanuki Tales]

I look forward to this!

Hehe.


Also, everyone, just as a friendly reminder:

You need the express written consent of an artist to use an image they created unless they specifically designate their art as being for fair use. Giving credit is not, I repeat, not sufficient enough. And if the image is a fan art or similar of copyrighted/product identity material you need both the written consent of the artist and the holder of the legal ownership of the concept. The only exception to this is if it is a photograph of actual merchandise, in which case you only need the photographer's written permission.

Roland is taking this gravely serious and I don't want this contest shut down or any one getting in trouble over an image they misused to give their entry more flair.

[SamBurke]

I just double checked, and the stuff I'm using is all supposed to be "Fair Use", from what I understand.

Still, I'm a little scared...

[zhdarkstar]

I just double checked, and the stuff I'm using is all supposed to be "Fair Use", from what I understand.

Still, I'm a little scared...

I think there's suspense all around wondering what's going to be in those two posts...

[SamBurke]

I think there's suspense all around wondering what's going to be in those two posts...

I'm actually going to delete those two... I think I may need three.

[zhdarkstar]

I'm actually going to delete those two... I think I may need three.

What a twist! Better get a move on as we're coming down to the wire.

[gr8artist]

Picture removed. Should I take down the quote as well?

[SamBurke]

Biskamatar:

Crunch:
I like the idea of the abilities here. Giving a bonus when you get one, extending spell durations, taking a spell's damage and adding it to yours... But I have two problems.

1. Not many options. This class doesn't get many cool things to do in combat, and only one to do out of combat. I see that the bolded entries are the new abilities... look at how few there are after the first couple of levels. Filling the dead levels was a good touch, but I'm alllllllways weary of Bonus Feats being used to do that.

2. Underpowered. What with the bonus feats and all, the class doesn't seem to *do* a lot. Some levels (9, 12, 15, 18, etc, etc) you only get a 5' extension of your Arcane Aegis. While that's a cool feature, +5 feet is hardly a level's worth of advancement... Plus, it doesn't quite live up to the fluff: the idea is to enhance magic, and there are a lot of ways you *could* do it, but don't. Perhaps a pool of points that allows him to temporarily increase the caster level, or remove the damage cap on a spell, or increase the number of targets, or shape it, or allow it to also hit someone they're melee-ing with, or any number of other cool (and crunchy!) abilities.

I lied about only two.

3. No Choice. Now, a lot of 3.5 classes didn't give a choice, but the one thing I keep harping about in Pathfinder is choice. Every base class has a choice pretty much every other level, if not more often, of things they can do. Each character is distinctly individual. This class, however, has very little customization, or option to choose. That's fine, but it's got SO MUCH potential, I can barely stand it.

Seriously. This class has a great theme, with some great abilities as the groundwork. I'd love to see this thing pick up and take the win. Perhaps you could look back at the cool abilities the Biskamatar got in the FF games, try 'n steal some more of that awesome?

Fluff:
Whilst I've never played the Final Fantasy games, the purpose and use of this class comes through loud and clear. I'm the guy who loves playing Buffs'n'Heals, and this class talks about how great it is at buffing. Pray, tell me more!

The real thing is: does that fluff line up with that crunch?


Overall/Balance/Suggestions
Balance doesn't seem like a problem. Everything looks good.

But please, please, please, unleash the full potential here! I know there isn't a ton of time, but do.

[SamBurke]

AND, WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, I PRESENT... THE FALSE PROPHET!

The fluff is, IMO, sub-par, and hard to connect. But hey. It's Bioshock Infinite, plus a chunk ton of new Vigor Boosts. I'm still working to make it look pretty, but it's about there.

EDIT: If anybody can think of a better name than The False Prophet, please tell me... it was all I could get.

[zhdarkstar]

AND, WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, I PRESENT... THE FALSE PROPHET!

The fluff is, IMO, sub-par, and hard to connect. But hey. It's Bioshock Infinite, plus a chunk ton of new Vigor Boosts. I'm still working to make it look pretty, but it's about there.

EDIT: If anybody can think of a better name than The False Prophet, please tell me... it was all I could get.

SWEET MOTHER OF CHRIST!

I'm going to have to brew a fresh pot just to get through this...

[zhdarkstar]

Zhdarkstar, Warforged were never part of the OGL, so I believe the thread you linked to could be doing copyright infringement. Regardless, Warforged were never made as part of Paizo's material.

They did introduce an Android race in the Inner Circle Sea setting if memory serves though, so you could re-do your archetype for that.

If you look at the home page for Eberron Pathfinder, it lists that the work created there is under the Community Use Open Game License for Pathfinder. However, if it's still in violation, I will change it to Android (even though that race doesn't hold a candle to the Warforged ) to be within compliance. Although the Android doesn't really fit as well thematically as they are pure technology as opposed to the magic involved in creating Warforged. Please let me know as soon as possible, as I will have to rewrite all of the fluff (and possibly some features) because of this.

[Tanuki Tales]

Picture removed. Should I take down the quote as well?

The copyright rule only covers photos.

And aw....I can't critique Sam's entry since I haven't gotten Infinite yet.

Edit:

@Zhdarkstar:

Based on the original DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® rules created by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson and the new
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game designed by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Richard Baker, and
Peter Adkison.
This WIZARDS OF THE COAST® game product contains no Open Game Content. No portion of this work may
be reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Gaming License and
the d20 System License, please visit www.wizards.com/d20.
This product uses updated material from the v.3.5 revision.

Emphasis on bolded selection. That's straight from the Eberron campaign setting book. I'll have to check if Races of Eberron has the same text.

[zhdarkstar]

Now before I sit down for the overhaul, there's one thing I have to know. Is the Warforged issue applicable just to this contest or is it site-wide?

If it's the former, I may just pull it from the contest and give it its own thread. If the latter, I may just have to find a different site to post it on if I can't make the fluff fit the mechanics.

The big problem I have with using the Android race is that they are emotionless, which is the complete opposite of the robots in Mega Man. X was created with free will. This is what makes the class more in line thematically with Warforged and not Androids.

EDIT: If I were to replicate the Warforged conversion but with a different name as part of the entry that exists only as reference material (not to be judged for the contest), would the issue go away?

[Tanuki Tales]

Now before I sit down for the overhaul, there's one thing I have to know. Is the Warforged issue applicable just to this contest or is it site-wide?

If it's the former, I may just pull it from the contest and give it its own thread. If the latter, I may just have to find a different site to post it on if I can't make the fluff fit the mechanics.

The big problem I have with using the Android race is that they are emotionless, which is the complete opposite of the robots in Mega Man. X was created with free will. This is what makes the class more in line thematically with Warforged and not Androids.

EDIT: If I were to replicate the Warforged conversion but with a different name as part of the entry that exists only as reference material (not to be judged for the contest), would the issue go away?

It'd be site wide and you'd probably find folks taking issue with it on any other site except the DnDwiki.

If you want to create a race AND a racial archetype to go with it, I'm fine with that being your entry as long as everyone else is fine with that.

[zhdarkstar]

This close to the deadline, it's not worth it to try and make a race just like the Warforged simply to fit an archetype. I guess I'll start trying to find a way to make Android fit...

Stupid f#$%ing robots...


Although I do find it slightly amusing that a site with a big homebrew section is more of a stickler for copyright than Paizo.com. Their Conversions forum is filled to the brim with copyright violations of this nature, especially Warforged conversions.

EDIT: If I simply remove the link to the conversion, would it still be a copyright issue for posting on its own? As I have seen countless PF homebrew on this site have warforged archetypes or favored class options.