LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

[bluewind95]

Kender:

I've actually seen people fill out form such that it reads
Sex? : Yes, please. Lots.

So, yeah, I daresay leaving it open does indeed cause problems.

Wormwood:

Welcome! I'm sure you'll like this thread. It's nice and cozy and friendly!

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Hi Wormwood,

Welcome to the thread! Help yourself to anything in the kitchen. Ignore the giant rampaging llamazilla!

Good luck with the surgery!

[KenderWizard]

Oh my gosh a llamazilla!

Kender:

I've actually seen people fill out form such that it reads
Sex? : Yes, please. Lots.

So, yeah, I daresay leaving it open does indeed cause problems.

I always hope I'm being too pessimistic! ... Does that mean I'm being too optimistic regarding my pessimism?

[Asta Kask]

I asked over on Queer Feminism - Avory Faucette is gender queer - what ze would prefer. Ze said Male/Female/Other (please specify) was fine and understood that leaving a blank space would mean trouble when time came to put together the data...

[Lea Plath]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.

Welcome, welcome!

Let me just go catch a couple of cockney orphans to sing "Consider Yourself"

[Mina Kobold]

I think it would actually be a good idea to file any strange answers you get on those forms, it could show patterns in human behaviour that might key us in to how to make people take forms seriously.

That's just my two Kobold copper pieces, though. I am far from a scientist. ^_^'

Do think that someone who would answer like that is unrealiable to answer truly on anything else either way, though. :3

But on to the important stuff!

*Hugs Triscuitable and anyone else needing a hug*

Sorry to hear that, but I hope you get better. Whichever way you end up doing it through.

[Asta Kask]

Asking for gender is a minor thing that really only happens because the journals demand it. At least in my field. So I'd rather keep it as simple as possible.

[pffh]

Asking for gender is a minor thing that really only happens because the journals demand it. At least in my field. So I'd rather keep it as simple as possible.

We are in the same/similar field (pharmacology/pharmacy) and it's not only because the journal demands it. It's also because many drugs need different doses or don't work as well for females and males. Although most of my experience is in stability studies I know people working in the clinical side (and I hope to end up there too) and there testing the difference in males and females is huge.

[Serpentine]

I think with these job applications it has something to do with equality stuff - it's always somewhere near the "this business is an equal opportunity employer" statement thingy.

[H Birchgrove]

Replies to posts from the previous thread:

I think the official name is Oppression Olympics.

Reminds me of that Bellman joke* in which Bellman and two other guys tell about how horrible their childhoods were.

*Swedish humour. In this case built around the bard and poet Carl Michael Bellman from 18th century Stockholm.

@ Arachu

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I had... A really bad day yesterday. Pretty much the worst day to be reliving the worst days of my life on. I'm a little better now, but I still need to vent so I'm posting the rant I was too sleepy to double-check.

Definite trigger warning... :/

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I just had... A terrible day. I went walking at the lake (which, honestly, is more of a swamp) with my sister and cousin. And that was great... Until we turned to go back.

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First, I asked them to start calling me Bianca (and therefore stop calling me Scott)... Only to hear that they were still calling me Aislin, but only when talking about me doing girly things when near certain people. So, they've been using it as an alias instead of as my name.

... Then they didn't. They kept using "he" and "Scott".

... Then I asked to take a break for a bit because my pants were making me itchy. They asked why, I said that they're really baggy. They told me to wear tighter clothes, I responded that it's really unpleasant to go clothes-shopping with my parents. Then my sis said to get a license, and I noted that my parents are just not willing to do that (for some reason that is most often cited as having to do with money (somehow)) and that I can't just get one where I am.

Somehow the argument reached the subject of my obesity, and she told me that I would be in better shape if I exercised more as a child.

You don't go there. I. Exercised. Constantly. With no visible results to speak of aside from good lungs and a morbid phobia of treadmills. I ended up cussing her out in all of three sentences.

... And then my flashbacks got more vivid. They depressed me, and the depression made me not care about discomfort. I walked so hard on the way back to the car it bruised both of my feet (and temporarily numbed two of my toes).

... It only got worse from there. And it seems they have me confused for a drag queen, or I've somehow failed to communicate how much it hurts to be called by that name. And my nails have to go without polish, and I cried for quite a while (which ironically would've been less unpleasant if I hadn't trimmed my nostrils this morning ).

And I feel terrible. Just, terrible.

Sorry about all of that, I just really needed to vent.

I should feel better tomorrow...

*Hugs* Reminds me of my thing with heights. Or, high areas that don't feel perfectly solid, as it were. Not one for escalators... >.>

'Course, now that I think of it I'm not too fond of roller coasters and whatnot either (probably for the above reason)...



Gah, I forgot to look up dress references! D:



First place, you mean?

I'll get the apron...



When in doubt, take a third option.



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()



First things first - *hugs*. I can tell you right now that you're not a freak. You're a wonderful person who happens to have complicated problems, and I'm sure things'll get better eventually.

I like to count for as long as I can or listen to running water (the shower is an excellent place for the latter). I've always heard that you start by focusing so hard on what you're concentrating on that you aren't really thinking of anything else, then relaxing until thoughts 'drift' into perspective.

Counting breaths works really well, in my experience. It's like the normal counting method, but with something 'real' to focus on. Don't do it unless you have a lot of time, though - with enough practice, you can really slow your breathing rate. I took a good seven minutes to count to ten once (other people were playing Guitar Hero, and I opened my eyes right before they finished the song).

I also used the conditioning to hold my breath for... Three minutes, was it? I would've gotten like 5 in, but people thought I was drowning the first time and they interrupted me. >.<



I like that phrase. I may or may not sig it as I wake up.



That's a good point... Getting rid of the hair she won't miss when masculine might help her be more comfortable when androgynous/feminine. And masculine, for that matter. Having shaved arms all the time would be awesome!



I'm Bianca, and I approve of this message. T.T

Hoo, but would it suck to hold your arms at your arms at that angle for so long.


EDIT: I think my hair growth slowed down somehow. I didn't get to shave yesterday, and it's only grown to what used to be the 12-hour mark...

*hugs*

Wish I could say something helpful...

... but instead I'm being a bad ally and babble about my own issues.

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I have several issues with my parents, right now AND in the past. I've already spoken to some members about it over at private chat... I may post about it over at the Personal Woes thread.

Will post more later.

[Arachu]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.

*Glomps* Hi there!

I always hope I'm being too pessimistic! ... Does that mean I'm being too optimistic regarding my pessimism?

No, it means you're pessimistically hoping you're wrong about pessimistically expecting to be wrong. They negate to optimism, though.

'Course, you also seem to be pessimistically tired of pessimistically hoping that your pessimistic expectations are incorrect - it's a bit confusing at that stage.

[Asta Kask]

We are in the same/similar field (pharmacology/pharmacy) and it's not only because the journal demands it. It's also because many drugs need different doses or don't work as well for females and males. Although most of my experience is in stability studies I know people working in the clinical side (and I hope to end up there too) and there testing the difference in males and females is huge.

I'm more in neurology. Yeah, there might be differences and we always glance at the data to make sure but it's not a big deal.

[Mono Vertigo]

Welcome here, Wormwood!

[Serpentine]

Reminds me of that Bellman joke* in which Bellman and two other guys tell about how horrible their childhoods were.

So like the Four Yorkshiremen Sketch?
(don't have a link to yours in English, do you?)

[Asta Kask]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time after that.

We also have a very nice picture thread. *hint, hint*

Welcome! Enter in peace and leave some of the wellbeing you bring.

[Serpentine]

Pretty much pure selfish curiosity, but I'd be really interested to see before and after shots of that. I've been really impressed with some trans transformations* recently, and I'd be curious to know what direct surgery can accomplish.


*mostly worded for the alliteration...

[noparlpf]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.

Welcome! There is coffee somewhere. Somebody has cookies. I really should find these rumored-of refreshments. I missed breakfast.

We also have a very nice picture thread. *hint, hint*

Welcome! Enter in peace and leave some of the wellbeing you bring.

We do indeed! You should post pictures. Though possibly not immediately after surgery because most people don't look their best right after surgery.

[Serpentine]

No indeed. As an example, I really wish they'd show some face transplant pictures from well after the healing's all done...

[Astrella]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.

Hi.

Good luck with the surgery and everything!

Pretty much pure selfish curiosity, but I'd be really interested to see before and after shots of that. I've been really impressed with some trans transformations* recently, and I'd be curious to know what direct surgery can accomplish.


*mostly worded for the alliteration...

You can probably find quite a few online, considering the large number of transition timelines that drift out there.

Also asking for before / after pictures might be a teensy bit insensitive...

@Kender: Natalie reposted an article she wrote a while back on gendering certain products and activities which I think you might find interesting if you haven't read it yet.

[KenderWizard]

I asked over on Queer Feminism - Avory Faucette is gender queer - what ze would prefer. Ze said Male/Female/Other (please specify) was fine and understood that leaving a blank space would mean trouble when time came to put together the data...

That's true, if it's something simple (loads of forms can't possibly need it that badly - like surveys, they just want it for statistics) they can just lump all the "other"s into a group on the pie chart. Or if, say, half of all people who ticked "other" wrote "genderqueer" they could make it a group.

I think it would actually be a good idea to file any strange answers you get on those forms, it could show patterns in human behaviour that might key us in to how to make people take forms seriously.

That's just my two Kobold copper pieces, though. I am far from a scientist. ^_^'

Do think that someone who would answer like that is unrealiable to answer truly on anything else either way, though. :3

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what people wrote down, but if they said their gender was toast, they're probably not putting (the right kind of) thought into their other answers either!

I think with these job applications it has something to do with equality stuff - it's always somewhere near the "this business is an equal opportunity employer" statement thingy.

Yep, it's often used to make sure the interview process isn't biased one way or another. Like if you had 60% men and 40% women apply for a job, but 90% of jobs went to women, there's something weird happening along the way.

For pharmacy and stuff, it is important to have that kind of data. For example, some drugs are dangerous to people who might become pregnant, which includes no biological males. But it still doesn't work because then trans people have to either put the wrong thing on the form (ie their biological sex when it asks for gender) or, depending on where they are in a transition process, might end up with the wrong dose, or counted in the wrong survey group.

So, maybe for surveys and such it should be
( ) Male
( ) Female
( ) Other _____________

and for medical things, or things that are for studies involving chromosomes, hormones, etc, it should be
( ) Biologically Male
( ) Bioogically Female
( ) Transsexual Male to Female
( ) Transsexual Female to Male
or some variant? Then genderqueer etc people would answer on their biological sex and trans people would be included correctly. (Not perfectly, since everyone's different and particularly since people would be at different stages in transition, or choosing different paths for transition, etc, but at least they could be accounted for. And if it's for giving them a drug or something the doctor would know to check.)

No, it means you're pessimistically hoping you're wrong about pessimistically expecting to be wrong. They negate to optimism, though.

'Course, you also seem to be pessimistically tired of pessimistically hoping that your pessimistic expectations are incorrect - it's a bit confusing at that stage.

[Coidzor]

Related: Do you think forms would be better if people were more trustworthy when they fill them out? For example, I can imagine if the gender options were
( ) Male
( ) Female
( ) Other: ___________________
that you would get people going "hur hur, I'll put other and say my gender is gay/Jedi/toast/f**k off!". Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic about it. And to be clear, I don't think that's a good reason not to put "other" there, just that people making the forms might not want to put in "niche" options that are likely to attract joke answers. I would put in other and if someone wrote "toast", their form would go in the bin! Hopefully no one legitimately identifies as a toast gender.

I think the issue here is that there's no established other options to necessitate the blank, and if there were, they'd just necessitate their own line. That, and equal opportunity laws would have to be updated massively with their current focus on physical sex if instead it's being asked about gender identity. Being genderqueer does not change one's physical sex, and stuff like that would necessitate an overhaul of most things in general. What people usually think of when Transsexuals are brought up are basically kludged into the system depending upon where they are in the transition process and how nice of an area they're in, after all.

I very much doubt that someone seriously looking to get a job would put something vulgar on a job application though. Generally a good way to get it tossed, I'd imagine. Which would leave people who identify as gender**** in a bit of a lurch, but frankly I hate that term anyway and it'd need to be changed to a new one to get official-like anyway.

[Serpentine]

You can probably find quite a few online, considering the large number of transition timelines that drift out there.

Also asking for before / after pictures might be a teensy bit insensitive...

Expressing interest, nothing more. And there's the double interest in seeing what another Playgrounder looks like, which I have for everybody.

[Arachu]

@ Arachu

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*hugs*

Wish I could say something helpful...

... but instead I'm being a bad ally and babble about my own issues.

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I have several issues with my parents, right now AND in the past. I've already spoken to some members about it over at private chat... I may post about it over at the Personal Woes thread.

Will post more later.

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*Hugs!* Never feel bad about talking about what you have to.

Besides, it actually comforts me when someone cares enough to say they want to help... *More hugs*

[Lix Lorn]

Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.

Hi, welcome, and good luck!

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what people wrote down, but if they said their gender was toast, they're probably not putting (the right kind of) thought into their other answers either!

I don't believe this Kender. I'm honestly ashamed. I know the toastuals are less mainstream, but they have as much right to exist as the rest of us.

I... I don't think I can even look at you guys right now.

[Asta Kask]

KenderWizard, are there any pictures of you floating around? Or do cameras don't capture half-Sidhe?

[Astrella]

So Re: Voice group, do those interested want to do it at a fixed time or go with more of a "oh, we have several people online, let's go."?

[Coidzor]

So Re: Voice group, do those interested want to do it at a fixed time or go with more of a "oh, we have several people online, let's go."?

Working out a time in advance would probably be the way to go, so that other interested parties have some idea and all.

[Asta Kask]

Transphobic game: Cistem Shock
Transaction (n): Action movie with a trans hero
Tranaphylactic shock (n) – the reaction of a transphobe after ze finds out ze has had sex with a trans person.
Transmission (n): Important job to do for the trans movement

[Lix Lorn]

So Re: Voice group, do those interested want to do it at a fixed time or go with more of a "oh, we have several people online, let's go."?

Either?

Transphobic game: Cistem Shock
Transaction (n): Action movie with a trans hero
Tranaphylactic shock (n) – the reaction of a transphobe after ze finds out ze has had sex with a trans person.
Transmission (n): Important job to do for the trans movement

oh god those are bad xD

[Serpentine]

Transformers: A kinda of mecha-transexual who can turn into a vehicle, or sometimes a dinosaur :B

edit: Translocation: where a trans person is.