League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I have/play/am decent with TF, but I welcome a Paintguide.

[LordShotGun]

Huh. I just noticed. Mundo doesn't have a shortcut on the league of legend wiki. The hero list goes from morganna straight to nasus. Mundo's entry is still there but you have to search for it.

[fred dref]

Maybe it's because he's under D?

[PersonMan]

Maybe it's because he's under D?

THE NAME IS DOCTOR MOON DOE. DOCTOR IS NOT A TITLE.

FULL TITLE DOCTOR DOCTOR MOON DOE.

[LordShotGun]

THE NAME IS DOCTOR MOON DOE. DOCTOR IS NOT A TITLE.

FULL TITLE DOCTOR DOCTOR MOON DOE.

Ok, I was going to argue that doctor is a title not a name but this is too funny!

[fred dref]

Regarding titles being part of the name, do you look for Miss Fortune under F or S? Do you look for Master Yi under Y?

[LordShotGun]

Regarding titles being part of the name, do you look for Miss Fortune under F or S? Do you look for Master Yi under Y?

Do either of those constantly reaffirm that their name is Fortune or Yi? Well mundo does. Constantly. And with great empasise that if he doesn't keep saying his name (just mundo, NOT dr.mundo) he will forget it?

I am not arguing that his name is NOT Dr.Mundo but that in both common usage and in game (and heck he even loses the Dr. part with corporate mundo) his name is just mundo.

Thus when I went onto the wiki, I looked under M and not D. Thus leading to this enjoyable internet argument (which sadly, no matter who wins we all are retarded silly).

[fred dref]

I know of very, very instances where anyone has called Master Yi by his full title.

[LordShotGun]

I know of very, very Few? Many? instances where anyone has called Master Yi by his full title.

Uh. What? If I think what you mean is what you mean then sure, master yi is often called with his full title, same as miss fortune. Dr.Mundo is not. Thus my confusion on the alphabetical ordering on the wiki.

[Nadevoc]

Do either of those constantly reaffirm that their name is Fortune or Yi? Well mundo does. Constantly. And with great empasise that if he doesn't keep saying his name (just mundo, NOT dr.mundo) he will forget it?

I am not arguing that his name is NOT Dr.Mundo but that in both common usage and in game (and heck he even loses the Dr. part with corporate mundo) his name is just mundo.

Thus when I went onto the wiki, I looked under M and not D. Thus leading to this enjoyable internet argument (which sadly, no matter who wins we all are retarded silly).

Mundo is actually moved around on the list every once in a while because Mundo goes where he pleases. Sort of an inside joke the Wiki people have.

[endoperez]

Uh. What? If I think what you mean is what you mean then sure, master yi is often called with his full title, same as miss fortune. Dr.Mundo is not. Thus my confusion on the alphabetical ordering on the wiki.

Yi ss. Mundo ss.

That's where I usually see the names typed out. I agree that Mundo's name causes more confusion, but having him be the only champion who isn't listed by his full name would be silly. Then again... "Mundo categorizes where he pleases."

[fred dref]

Uh. What? If I think what you mean is what you mean then sure, master yi is often called with his full title, same as miss fortune. Dr.Mundo is not. Thus my confusion on the alphabetical ordering on the wiki.

I am awesome at words.

I meant that I almost never see anyone call Yi by the full name, Master Yi, in either written or spoken conversation. Similar to how I rarely hear people say Miss Fortune, but rather just MF.

[LordShotGun]

Mundo is actually moved around on the list every once in a while because Mundo goes where he pleases. Sort of an inside joke the Wiki people have.

That actually makes way more sense then it should.

[Silverraptor]

beep boop I'm a robot

I think you should probably know that he's not Twisted Fate and therefore I'm not obsessed with him right now.
(but yeah you should also know that maxing Death Ray and getting Augment Death does seem to be sort of legit, not as legit as getting Augment Power though because I'm always right or whatever)

Dear God, Dog. Why are you always so awesome? How do you manage it?

[toasty]

So .... only Gangplank then?

Edit: Oh, right, nevermind. Gragas, Olaf, Zilean, Udyr, plus some weaker beards.

Ryze has a beard...

[Lix Lorn]

Forget Mundo. SINGED goes where he pleases. ._.
I played him yesterday. Ran past two towers, then stood under the second one, got a double kill, and happily ran off.

[Bunny of Faith]

So I played two games as jungle lux and won them both. This makes it totally viable, right guys? (I got bored of jungling Mundo because it's too easy, can anyone suggest more interesting people to jungle with?)

[Draken]

There is one critical error in dogmantra's Viktor guide.

Death augment gives a 30% dot on Death Ray. Not 20%!

That said I am mostly using Augment Power these days.

And that ult. It is a 1v3 triple kill just waiting to happen that one.~

[Dogmantra]

So I played two games as jungle lux and won them both. This makes it totally viable, right guys? (I got bored of jungling Mundo because it's too easy, can anyone suggest more interesting people to jungle with?)

Ones I have done personally and can vouch for since the jungle changes:
Pantheon
Talon
Singed

Ones I have done before the jungle changes:
Morgana

Ones I hear you can do but still haven't tried yet:
Graves
Ezreal

Ones that don't work:
Garen

There is one critical error in dogmantra's Viktor guide.

Death augment gives a 30% dot on Death Ray. Not 20%!

Rounding error. boop beep

[Eldariel]

So... got a question for you guys, since I figure most of you are more familiar with all the champs than I am. What are some good mage/AP-based champs that can fare well in the endgame? I've had good fun playing as Lux and getting massively satisfying laser kills in the earlier stages of the game, but I find her ability to contribute really drops off once everyone's health bars get too big for her to bring down. Then I tried Ahri a few days ago and got that satisfying feeling that I was getting increasingly deadly as the game went on instead of increasingly reliant on my teammates. Who else is more along those lines?

Ok, so more detail:

Spoiler

Show

Ahri: Ahri has a strong lategame. Her composite AP scalings are fairly strong, she's hard to catch and notably, the true damage on her Q and the fact that she can full proc Rylai off her W are both incredibly potent increases to her overall power.

This combined with the mobility Spirit Rush offers and the hard CC/peel on her E makes her quite scary in lategame. The fact that part of her damage is AOE true damage is quite big tho; while it's not that massive a part, it penetrates all resistances dealing significant amounts of damage. Her Q and W cooldowns are also quite reasonable; not AP carry territory but definitely quite spammable.

Akali: Akali's lategame is rather weak in the sense that her damage is quite good but she's melee and gets focused down especially once Twilight Shroud gets nullified. Lategame she has to play the role of an assassin and try to bide her time and nuke the carries; she has no business going for the tanks.

Anivia: Anivia's lategame is extremely strong. Wall is the only form of CC that can never get mitigated by any itemization, she has very high AP ratios and ulti as a constant AOE damage effect. Indeed, she approaches AP carry territory on that alone but her Q and E cooldowns are a bit higher (though still reasonably low).

She has very good AOE damage, lots of AOE CC (relevantly, all her CC is AOE) and while not mobile, she's hard to burst down for enemy assassins due to egg; unless she gets caught she tends to be fine.

Annie: Annie's lategame is moderate. She has some of the scariest burst in the game and good initiation but after that, only her Q cooldown is truly low. She's quite tanky late and she can output constant damage with her Q but her nature as a burst caster tends to make her somewhat weaker late when resistances and anti-CC items have come into play en masse.

Tibbers is a boss though and does give her some more constant damage but the scaling isn't very scary after the initial hit; lategame Tibbers is considerably less impressive than midgame Tibbers.

Brand: Brand has decent lategame as a burst caster. His 4-damage spell setup gives him decent damage and he has good AOE but his cooldowns are annoyingly high (outside Sear) later on and his individual scalings are relatively poor so he remains a burst caster who seeks to AOE nuke the entire enemy team for tons and then sit around waiting for things to come off CD for a while.

His range keeps him relatively safe and his AOE damage is undeniably scary especially in conjunction with his passive that has a fairly decent scaling as people build more health, but overall he's more of a midgame than a lategame monster.

Cassiopeia: Cassiopeia's lategame is downright brutal. If she's not dealt with immediately, she will chew through entire teams. Her E's lack of cooldown, Q and W both being massive AOEs with Q on a ridiculously low cooldown and her ultimate being a massive AOE damage and stun just gives her obscene amounts of everything.

She has quite possibly the highest single-target magic damage in the game and that's while she's also dealing stupid amounts of AOE damage and CC. She itemizes well and her AP scaling is insane considering her cooldowns. She might not quite do AD carry single-target damage but accounting for all the AOE she has she might very well surpass them, and she brings an AOE stun on the table too. You might have to build her somewhat tanky but her damage is high enough to make that feasible.

Fiddlesticks: Fiddle's lategame is obviously about one thing exactly; dat Crowstorm. If he lands a good Crowstorm, he can still demolish teams, doubly so with Zhonya. If his Crowstorm gets interrupted or countered, he's kinda meh.

Yeah, Dark Wind does some damage and Terrify is great CC but Drain will be hard to keep up (cast range 475 is a real PiTA) and Terrify does no damage so his damage contributions outside Crowstorm are rather minor; outside Crowstorm he's mostly a CC bot and his strengths definitely lie in the midgame. But still, even late, one Crowstorm can win the game straight out; .45 DoT scaling and all that.

Fizz: Fizz has a moderate lategame. Fizz is again a lategame assassin very capable of taking down a single target but usually has a hard time after that; trollpole is a good survivability ability and has no counterbuilds unlike Twilight Shroud so he has Akali beat on that note, and he also comes with built-in CC in his ultimate.

Fizz's lategame isn't terrible as he has CC and is still elusive while hitting like a truck, but he still has some inherent limitations due to being a melee assassin.

Galio: Galio has a decent lategame. His damage isn't amazing and his ulti, while strong, gets some counters later on but regardless of the phase of the game he remains a very tanky mage with fairly good scaling and his ultimate is still ace in the hole.

His damage isn't competitive with most mages' late, of course, but the utility he brings to the table combined with his bruiser role makes him fairly reasonable even late.

Heimerdinger: This fella is weird lategame. Well, he's weird throughout the game. He's kinda down to whether or not he can force people into his gun nests. His turrets themselves are ridiculously easy to take down late but if his team can engage a fight around his turrets, their defense shred and damage will add up real quick. He himself provides decent AOE damage on relatively reasonable cooldowns but that alone is nothing to write home about especially since he lacks ultimate for burst.

The fact that lategame his turrets are eminently boom-uppable makes his lategame a tad worse than his midgame but due to his weirdness, it's hard to really accurately gauge him against the auxillary picks.

Janna: Janna has a decent lategame. Obviously she's not doing as much as other mages offensively but her offensive scaling isn't bad. And her shield can be cast on anybody, including towers, and it gives a free BFS for your carry combined with 900+ strength worth of health.

She also has her fight reset which is obviously ridiculously good lategame especially since it's also a full heal, more or less. She carries a lot of CC and her passive is as good as ever. Suffice to say, she only has Sion-like damage but she brings more utility than just about anyone else late.

Karma: Karma's lategame is decent. Her lack of offensive scaling begins to hurt but she does have the shield and the heal to make up for it. She can't sustain constant castings of Mantra'd Shields though and her slow/speed-buff just doesn't do all that much unless you can nuke the entire enemy team with it (generally as a speedbuff on a tanky type, in that case).

However she is extremely hard to kill and extrapolates that on her team too, especially when her passive is multiplied by all the AP items you build. She's a very, very good sustainer in long fights keeping the whole team alive while dishing out respectable damage.

Karthus: Karthus has an insane lategame. He has a global omni-hitting damage ability, stupid-high damage aura on his E, infinitely spammable Q, strong peel/MR reduction in his Wall and then his passive which means he can't actually be countered except by dislocation champions. Even if focused down, he's still going to kill your team.

He has stupid single-target and AOE damage and his ultimate is impossible to escape from. He's basically the ultimate lategame mage, whether played as Zombie Kart or the more traditional AP Kart.

Kassadin: Unlike most Assassins, Kassadin enjoys a strong lategame. The fact that he'll have finished his mana building to enable him to riftwalk stack nuke people, the fact that he's the most elusive champion in the game and the fact that his E has very low cooldown if the stacks are filled by auxillary champs makes him capable of damaging even tanky people while still having enough firepower and mobility to rain death on squishies.

His damage isn't nearly as high as true AP carries' but the fact that he's literally impossible to catch without instant CC or running him out of mana (which, let's face it, takes a long while in lategame with him on blue on a Manadin build) makes him a true terror. Again, his single target burst isn't really anything to write home about outside stacked Riftwalk but his ability to deal sustained damage pretty much indefinitely, while staying safe, is pretty brutal and those Riftwalk stacks do happen late too.

Katarina: Like the whole champion, it's just a question of Death Lotus. If she can channel full Death Lotuses, she can destroy teams single-handedly but if she's interrupted she does precious little. As such, it's mostly a factor of the enemy team though the player's ability for engaging at the right time also matters.

Still, it's hard to estimate such a bipolar champion. Generally her lategame is worse than her mid or early game though as it's easier for enemies to survive her burst and to pin her down; she needs people to die to get her cooldowns back up.

Kennen: Kennen is a decent lategame champion. His damage is nothing to write home about but he still has good initiation and passable CC. He can make great use of few specific items which definitely is a boon for him late; Hourglass and Rylai make a Kennen very happy indeed.

His damage, while not immense, is not bad either but when he rushes in for his Hourglass ultimate he has a hard time doing much else which does reduce his overall damage output considerably. And his scaling is decent, but not in the top tier of the game. His cooldown on Q particularly is fairly low though allowing him to do decent constant damage.

Kog'Maw: Kog'Maw's lategame is decent. He has terrible scaling on his primary damage ability but the base damage is obscene to compensate. And he has some scaling. Lategame is definitely not his strength and he's easy to burst down for some assassins but his lategame isn't bad, 'cause it's so hard to deal with his constant Living Artillery spam and his base damage is high enough that it remains scary as long as Rylai and penetration are in.

LeBlanc: LeBlanc is a decent lategame champion. Her cooldowns are a tad prohibitive but notably her ulti cooldown is actually really low and she's extremely mobile. She's best suited for assassin-style "nuke the carry"-play. She also really hates Banshee's Veil so there's that.

Still, as long as a good player is playing LB she can do a rather decent job at kiting the fight and destroying the carry.

Lux: Lux's lategame is mediocre. She has good range and decent damage but her AP scaling is poor, her cooldowns are long and she has a non-damaging ability. With shorter cooldowns and slightly better ratios she could be competitive but as it stands, other mages just hurt more.

Malzahar: Malzahar has a decent lategame. The paradigm shift after enemies build QSS is significant, though. You go from picking the first target you find and comboing them to 0, to poking with QWE + Voidlings until you can either catch an opponent without QSS or with QSS down while at a relatively safe position and then try to ulti, even without W if you have to.

His AP scaling is still scary and his damage is insanely high even without his ultimate so his lategame isn't bad but still, the fact that he generally wants a Banshee to make landing his ulti more possible, and the fact that QSS hard counters his primary means of utterly destroying a single target means he's way weaker late than midgame.

Mordekaiser: Morde has a decent lategame. Basically, if he can kill a carry with his ultimate it's an autowin, and he's very hard to kill as he becomes ridiculously tanky naturally (his W + his passive shield gives him the highest actual base stats in the game and his base MR is 53).

The principal issue Morde faces lategame is that as the game goes on, carries get harder to just burst down as they get their defensive item up. His tankiness also might be impressive, but even Morde doesn't hold up to an IE/PD/LW/BT carry for more than few seconds.

His AP scaling isn't that good either so his damage outside his ultimate doesn't really keep up with the defensive scaling of his opponents, but on the flipside he does get even more spellvamp and survivability so he becomes a scary bruiser late.

Morgana: Morgana has a decent lategame. Like Galio, Morgana ultimate remains relevant. Also, catching someone in QW is almost an instant kill and the shield remains ridiculous. Still, her cooldowns are long and her ultimate falls off a bit in the very late game since it has counterbuilds. She remains a force to be reckoned with especially since her shield is rather ridiculous, but her ace weapon drops off a bit late.

Nidalee: Nidalee has a great lategame in the right teamcomp. To be clear, she is only viable in a poke composition. However, she's more or less the reason a poke comp wins. Her spears have stupid scaling, her heal is still decent for keeping people going and she is almost impossible to catch.

Her Cougar-form abilities also hurt like hell and with Lichbane, she's one of the best pushers, so her 1v1 ability is extremely high. Overall, she only fits one type of a team composition but she's ridiculous there.

Orianna: Orianna has a decent lategame. She does a ton and she has a ton of numbers scaling off her AP so the more AP, the better. She also does only AOE damage which obviously helps and her R is one of the more difficult CC effects to build against (only Banshee's really helps).

Her autoattacks add up to a lot and she has speedbuff/slow, shield, armor/MR buff and AOE pull so her general utility is ridiculous if you can land her abilities. Of course, that's always the hard part with her and that damned ball.

Rumble: Rumble has a great lategame. Rumble could frankly be classified as an AP carry. He doesn't cast constantly but he does tons upon tons of constant damage. His Q has the highest non-ultimate scaling for a per-second ability and his E hits twice. They also have an inherent damage amplifier in the Danger Zone and his ultimate hits like a truck and acts as massive CC.

He's also incredibly tanky by default. And his damage is all AOE. He doesn't have hard CC but other than that, he's ridiculous on all accounts and his ult slow is stupid-good too.

Ryze: Ryze's lategame is great. He's the very definition of a lategame mage; as he scales by mana he can afford to basically only build tanky items while getting stupid amounts of damage. His cooldowns are low and only made better by his passive.

He's a veritable machine gun with no blue dependency and he has instant CC and he's tanky. He's kind of like a mage bruiser with great constant damage (not AD carry level but definitely higher than most full build AD bruisers).

Sion: Sion is weird to pin down lategame. On one hand his damage really peters off with only two scaling abilities. On the other hand, he gains Health and becomes almost unkillable with his shield. The important part is of course detonating the shield; if the detonation fails, his contributions are cut down to nothing.

Properly played lategame Sion falls in the "decent"-category probably but only as a bruiser, not as a strict caster; he doesn't really have that much burst anymore but he's again a champ that's actually hard to take out.

Swain: Swain is a decent lategame champ. He walks the tightrope of just barely surviving but his damage is actually very decent and very late, he might actually be able to afford some plain damage items. As long as he survives, he has good burst, some CC and decent constant AOE damage with them crows.

His only problem is really that he is kind of a frontliner and thus he has a harder time getting as much damage as he'd really want to heal off of.

Twisted Fate: Twisted Fate has a decent lategame. His damage is nothing to write home about and his stun is only single-target but the range on wildcards is obscene. He won't burst people down that hard but his cooldowns are low so he'll keep bursting and his ultimate is obviously insanely good for splitpushing or backdooring.

As such, his direct impact in fights isn't that high (though it's still significant) but his overall utility (especially the Destiny-part of Gate) remains immensely high so as long as your team has sufficient auxillary sources of damage, he'll be fine (and his damage isn't bad, it's just not quite as high as many other mages').

Veigar: Veigar's lategame is great. Well, what would you expect from a champ with infinite AP scaling (by farming his Q), really? His ult is great for nuking down enemy AP carries and good for nuking down everyone else but just the fact that he can easily get 1000+ AP makes him a terror; his AP ratios are actually quite good objectively so he's a true monster with his limitless AP scaling.

Event Horizon is also a good non-ultimate version of Morg/Kennen ults which does have counterplay but is still incredibly powerful and yeah. Obviously his biggest selling point is that he'll have enough AP to actually nuke down tanks, and he'll hurt even without his ultimate. His cooldowns aren't all that long either.

Viktor: Viktor has a decent lategame. He has solid area control CC, good damage, slightly longish cooldowns. Literally his only problem is that extra item slot; it's just far and away less powerful than any lategame item in that slot would be. So you're basically ½ an item behind everybody else.

He's also more of a burst caster than a sustained caster so he has that going on against him but given his damage, he's quite alright in that role.

Vladimir: Vladimir has a good lategame. His nerfs have taken their toll but he still gets to a bit over 2 second cooldowns on both of his spammable abilities, Tides of Blood and his passive mean he gets ridiculous amounts of extra health and effective health in fights for free, and his W is still a silly-good escape on a relatively low cooldown.

Also, his ultimate gets better the longer the game goes, like all damage amplifiers. And this is an AOE. He doesn't do quite as much damage as other AP carries (anymore) but he's still up there, he has good AOE and he's very, very hard to pin down and kill.

Xerath: Xerath lategame is decent. His biggest thing going on for him is his ridiculous range and ultimate. He also gets stupid amounts of armor. But he has the burst caster issue of "k, used ulti, guess I sit around now". His Q and E don't do all that much though they're far from irrelevant obviously, and his passive and W both scale incredibly well to lategame (he can reach like 70% MPen) which keeps him strong. And yeah, his ultimate makes up for his lack of damage elsewhere; it's a massive, massive nuke.

Ziggs: Ziggs's lategame is decent. Poke, poke, poke. His range is stupid much like Xerath's, he's hard to catch and his damage is good with annoying amounts of slows. He also gets to reasonably low Q cooldown eventually so he has rather spammable abilities and that goes well with the passive and Lichbane. His damage isn't all that high but the minefield and the AOEs do add up, especially if he's able to get in range for his passive.

Zilean: Zilean's lategame is decent. His damage is not much more than Sions, to be sure, and he's not nearly as tanky. However, his ultimate becomes ridiculously powerful as your carry gets farmed. It becomes near impossible to kill people on Zile's team at that point and with full CDR + blue, the cooldown is cut to a fraction.

He can also constantly Time Warp people for the speed-up/slowdown and the Bombs do add up as AOEs with decent AP scaling when cast almost constantly.

[Anonomuss]

Ones that work that Dog should try: Jungle Twisted Fate

[Dogmantra]

Ones that work that Dog should try: Jungle Twisted Fate

Oh man, I missed him out, but yeah. 100% win rate baby.
allinthecardsface.jpg

[9mm]

What are people's opinions on Fiddlesticks? He's one of my favorite champions, but I'm not the greatest with him.

underrated jungler, people hilariously still think he's blue reliant. Has weak matchups against head-hunter invaders, but otherwise decent. Horrible, horrible laner.

[fred dref]

Eldariel, Pillar and Jarvan ult also cannot reduced by itemization. Well, Pillar can if your running from it, but if you need to be in the area it occupies, the slow will be instantly reapplied and the terrain itself remains.

EDIT: Oh, and Drain has better scaling than Flamespitter. In fact, Drain has the exact same scaling as Crowstorm.

[Eldariel]

Eldariel, Pillar and Jarvan ult also cannot reduced by itemization. Well, Pillar can if your running from it, but if you need to be in the area it occupies, the slow will be instantly reapplied and the terrain itself remains.

Yeah, I was talking about mages there.

Oh, and Drain has better scaling than Flamespitter. In fact, Drain has the exact same scaling as Crowstorm.

True. Yeah, I know this, so I guess it should technically be "second highest" or something. He matches non-Danger Zone Spitter but loses to Danger Zone Spitter (.585). My only problem with Drain is that it's a short-range single-target interruptable ability that requires you to stand still on a generally squishy champion.

[fred dref]

Yeah, I was talking about mages there.



True. Yeah, I know this, so I guess it should technically be "second highest" or something. He matches non-Danger Zone Spitter but loses to Danger Zone Spitter (.585). My only problem with Drain is that it's a short-range single-target interruptable ability that requires you to stand still on a generally squishy champion.

Flamespitter does last a significantly shorter length of time, though. Total ratio is ~.5 lower on Danger Zone 'Spitter.

Though yeah, Drain is significantly riskier and more difficult to use well.

[Makensha]

underrated jungler, people hilariously still think he's blue reliant. Has weak matchups against head-hunter invaders, but otherwise decent. Horrible, horrible laner.

He works fairly well against a lot of normal tops, especially those who can't interrupt him. After level five, a lot of melee can't deal with being drained.

[fred dref]

I remember one time a Fiddlesticks went up against my Warwick. He would Drain me and I would just W+autoattack him. Due to my MR runes and masteries, we pretty much traded completely even. It was silly.

[Zen Master]

Ryze has a beard...

Yea, but it's weak-ish, isn't it? Like, he really has a fishermans beard - only below the jawline.

[Temotei]

Alistar's beard is great.