Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk X

[Spiryt]

Here is a slow example to show what it looked like.

Here is another.

First example is some warming up drill, exercise, show off, and general 'side' activity, obviously no one would seriously attempt anything like that in fight.

The guy from that group says so in the comments too.

The second one is slow-motion of some plausible situations, we can only guess.

[Knaight]

Oh the spear is the number one weapon, but what I was saying is that both the Saxons and the Vikings HAD troops that fought with two-handed axes in formation. In both cases it also often were the houscarls, the "elite bodyguards".

I was mostly clarifying for the lurkers. As for those videos, the first is a general weapon balance practice and warmup, and the second looks questionably plausible (The guy with the longer axe never took advantage of his reach, his upper hand barely moved on the shaft, and there were a few other flaws that make me doubt the authenticity).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Quick question: Would studded leather armor be the statistical equivalent of brigandine armor? Also, what would be the statistical equivalent of a pavise? A heavy wooden shield? A tower shield?

I basically want to play this, but don't know how to outfit the guy.

[NineThePuma]

Quick question: Would studded leather armor be the statistical equivalent of brigandine armor? Also, what would be the statistical equivalent of a pavise? A heavy wooden shield? A tower shield?

I basically want to play this, but don't know how to outfit the guy.

Brigandine armor was included in AD&D 2nd Ed; it offered identical protection to scale mail, so I would say that you use that and fluff it appropriately.

The pavise is clearly a tower shield.

[eulmanis12]

Quick question: Would studded leather armor be the statistical equivalent of brigandine armor? Also, what would be the statistical equivalent of a pavise? A heavy wooden shield? A tower shield?

I basically want to play this, but don't know how to outfit the guy.

brigandine armor would be closer to chain I think. As for the shield a tower shield should would be a close approximation.

[Matthew]

Quick question: Would studded leather armor be the statistical equivalent of brigandine armor? Also, what would be the statistical equivalent of a pavise? A heavy wooden shield? A tower shield?

I basically want to play this, but don't know how to outfit the guy.

As NineThePuma suggests, though studded armour would be fine.

[NineThePuma]

(Oh, and a random additional note; if anyone in here has an alternate suggestion, they are totally more likely to be right than me, as I didn't even look up what Brigandine is beyond grabbing my 2nd ED AD&D PHB.

Additionally, Hide offered the same benefits as Scale/Brigandine, so make of that what you will.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hmmm...according to what I'm reading, Pathfinder's "Armored Coat" armor may be the best approximation...

EDIT: Actually, it seems with Ultimate Combat they included "Brigandine" in a sense, with the kikko armor. So I can just use the stats for those. Incidentally, would the crossbow held by that guy in the picture I linked be a heavy or light crossbow?

[NineThePuma]

Probably a light crossbow.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Excellent! Thanks guys!

[Chromascope3D]

Does anyone know what armor Filipino warriors used? Google has images of plated chainmail, but I was wondering if there were any other types. Also, what that armor was called.

Pathfinder has choices for Eastern weapons and armors, but it's all practically Chinese and Japanese, which is sad, because the Philippines had some really cool looking weapons.

[Yora]

In Denmark, an excarvation has discovered the remains of 200 warriors who had been dumped into a bog, including weapons, which are estimated to be about 2000 years old. The bogs in Jutland and southern Sweden have some of the best conditions anywhere in the world to preserve organic remains, so this should be really quite interesting. I think this could be quite exiting when they release the first detailed reports.

[Spiryt]

Brigadine should be probably closest to scale or one of 'banded' "splint" shenanigans, but really, breastplate stats would be alright as well.

And if the rest of a body is armored as well - full plate. Seeing that this was pretty much as brigandine was often used in late 15th century....

For the record though, there's absolutely no point or need of equipping "Genoese crossbowmen" necessary with brigandine, the description is pretty much standard MTW crap, made up out whole cloth.

The biggest problem is obviously a crossbow - they're such a poor weapon in 3.5 D&D at least, that it's hard to build solid character using it.

[Matthew]

Right, looking more closely at the link, banded armour would probably be the better fit for what is being presented. It is hard to tell because they have "mail armour" (5) and "heavy mail armour" (7) and seem fairly indiscriminate about how they assign them, with Saxon Huscarls having the former and Norman Knights the latter.

[Galloglaich]

In Denmark, an excarvation has discovered the remains of 200 warriors who had been dumped into a bog, including weapons, which are estimated to be about 2000 years old. The bogs in Jutland and southern Sweden have some of the best conditions anywhere in the world to preserve organic remains, so this should be really quite interesting. I think this could be quite exiting when they release the first detailed reports.

Cool!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...anish-bog.html

http://news.discovery.com/history/ar...og-120816.html

G

[Yora]

Why do all the sites copy-past the whole content, including the image caption "caused by a spear or an arrow"?
What kind of arrow punches a 5cm hole through a cranium?

[Conners]

Well, I guess you could suppose that the arrow made a smaller hole, but the hole got bigger due to deterioration...? Not sure.

[Xuc Xac]

Why do all the sites copy-past the whole content, including the image caption "caused by a spear or an arrow"?
What kind of arrow punches a 5cm hole through a cranium?

Any kind that's traveling fast enough to be lethal but not fast enough to poke a precise hole the exact size of the arrowhead and shaft.

[Spiryt]

That looks like some heavy arrow head could indeed mainly crumble the skull, and then loose parts fell apart getting lost and not preserved...

But some other source is probably more likely.

[a_humble_lich]

That looks like some heavy arrow head could indeed mainly crumble the skull, and then loose parts fell apart getting lost and not preserved...

Alternately, they were fighting a previously unknown race of giants who had 5cm thick arrows. But I guess your solution is more likely.

[Xuc Xac]

Or they used broadheads. You guys know that the hole is made by the head of the arrow and not the shaft, right? The head can be bigger than the shaft.

[Ashtagon]

Can someone chime in on this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...php?p=13757190

[Yora]

Regarding the original question: I think the reason to give bastard sword stats to the katana was "It's larger than a one handed sword, but smaller than the two-handed swords usually seen in western fantasy." That's probably all there is to it.
Also, while the katana is a two-handed sword, it is possible to use it with only one hand. There were even a few swordsmen said to fight with one in each hand. And it is a common misconception that "one and a half sword" means a sword that can be used with either one or two hands, resulting in the term bastard sword.

Another question: Is there any military use of the trident? I only know it from roman gladiators and they were using equipment puposly designed to be impractical to keep things interesting.
Also poseidon had a trident, but there's lots of gods who are actually holding tools rather than weapons.

[Galloglaich]

See military fork.


G

[Ashtagon]

Regarding the original question: I think the reason to give bastard sword stats to the katana was "It's larger than a one handed sword, but smaller than the two-handed swords usually seen in western fantasy." That's probably all there is to it.
Also, while the katana is a two-handed sword, it is possible to use it with only one hand. There were even a few swordsmen said to fight with one in each hand. ...

My point that was lost in the initial debate over how "longsword" was misused in the earliest D&D editions and that the misuse got carried forwards.

A katana blade is comparable to, and in fact slightly shorter than, the true medieval one-handed blade weapons (the arming sword).

I'm not aware of any historical warrior who dual-wielded katana. Katana and wakizashi together, yes. But not two katana.

[Yora]

Long sword can be pretty much anything. It just needs to be a sword that is rather on the long side of what people in a given time and place are thinking of as "normal sword size".

[Ashtagon]

Long sword can be pretty much anything. It just needs to be a sword that is rather on the long side of what people in a given time and place are thinking of as "normal sword size".

What about comparing katana to arming swords?

[Chromascope3D]

Pathfinder uses a different set of stats

It's given a 1d8 of damage, 18-20/x2, and has a +4 to coup de gras.

I, personally, prefer these stats. The Katana was a weapon meant for slicing flesh. A longsword is different, being straight and double edged, thus it would have a different set of stats. You can easily force a European sword through plate armor (If the armor in question is prostrate or otherwise not moving). A katana, not so much. Because it's so good at cutting flesh, though, of course it should have a higher crit range. The coup de gras bonus also makes sense because it was so good at executing kneeling peasants. Also ne'er-do-wells, I guess.

You could apply bastard sword stats to a katana, but I personally wouldn't because they're two completely different types of sword with different strengths and weaknesses.

[Conners]

Even prostate plate which is stuck down... I really question how easy it'd be to shove something through it. Maybe a pike, but I doubt a sword.

Methinks the differences between European and Japanese swords are exaggerated.

[Dead_Jester]

The coup de gras bonus also makes sense because it was so good at executing kneeling peasants. Also ne'er-do-wells, I guess.

This makes little sense; any weapon, hell almost anything works surprisingly well to kill a helpless opponent, and small, thin weapons tend to work better unless you are trying to go for spectacular results (cutting off or severely crushing parts of the body); daggers have through history been the favored weapon for such acts (notably the misericorde) because they make it easier to bypass the armor and get to the fleshy bits, as well as being easier to use in extremely close quarters. A full length sword, especially a slashing sword like a katana, is not good at avoiding armor, and although it can be quite sharp, you don't need it to be when you are hitting an immobile, helpless and unarmored target, as your weapon will, in most probability, go straight through if it is at least the size of a large knife. Furthermore, a katana is extremely difficult to use effectively (to make a cutting motion) against a target who isn't upright or at least raised from the ground (you'll end up hitting the object through the target, and probably end up with a chopping, rather than cutting motion, for which you want a weapon balanced further towards the blade). As such, it makes little sense for katanas to get bonuses on coup de grace attempts, especially if other, more suitable weapons, don't.

On the subject of stabbing through and immobile, supported breastplate, I am fairly confident any decent spearhead should be up to the task; half-swording was a credible threat, and the impact area of the average spear is only slightly bigger, especially in the case of top or back spikes for polearms.