Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[ArlEammon]

This is RWA. General life stuff is a separate thread. I mean, you're welcome to vent here, but we'll think it's about the guy/girl of your dreams.

As for your issue, it sounds like you need professional help. Quite possibly meds. We're not allowed to give advice on this scale here beyond "go see a professional", and even if we were, I wouldn't know where to start.

Serp: Mutual friends are magical. Have a few go to pick up your stuff before you get back, under the excuse that it'll let you feel all comfy and settled in when you actually do get home.

If the two of you lack mutual friends, have some neutral friends try the same trick. The key point here is that, if it seems like feelings are bristly, keeping distance is good.

Which thread is it? It looks like the Depression Thread has gone the way of the Dodo. I can't find it.

[Serpentine]

It's called Personal Woes and Advice now.

Heh... Keep my distance. Good one Eh, it shouldn't be too hard to get my stuff without him having to see me, if need be. It's mostly furniture and kitchen stuff, which he and my former housemate are still using, which is something they'll need forewarning about to make sure they get replacements. It's just disappointing.

[The Succubus]

I'm currently having the opposite problem to Serpy (amongst a few other things which I'm not ready to talk about yet).

When I split up with my gf two months ago, one of the reasons I wasn't completely devestated was because she said that we would still remain friends afterwards. Although of course I would miss the romantic aspects of our relationship, losing her as a friend as well would be a real kick in the balls.

It's two months later and I've barely said two words to her. I've tried sending a few text messages (about 3 or 4 - I *haven't* been bombarding her or anything of that nature) to her but I've barely had a peep out of her. I know that she's busy with moving to a new town and job but it just feels like I've been excised as neatly from her life as if I had never existed.

Being my first gf, I don't know if it's standard procedure or something to completely cut ties with an ex. But I still care for her (as a friend, nothing more) and I can't help but worry.

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, Succubus, if my exes had kept their distance, let me say my life would have been a lot easier.
Relationships end and sometimes it's better to move on. Maybe she is just busy, maybe not. All you can do is wait and try not to bother too much about it, because if she doesn't want to be friends with you, well, you can't do anything about it, can you?

[snoopy13a]

When I split up with my gf two months ago, one of the reasons I wasn't completely devestated was because she said that we would still remain friends afterwards. Although of course I would miss the romantic aspects of our relationship, losing her as a friend as well would be a real kick in the balls.

It's two months later and I've barely said two words to her. I've tried sending a few text messages (about 3 or 4 - I *haven't* been bombarding her or anything of that nature) to her but I've barely had a peep out of her. I know that she's busy with moving to a new town and job but it just feels like I've been excised as neatly from her life as if I had never existed.

Being my first gf, I don't know if it's standard procedure or something to completely cut ties with an ex. But I still care for her (as a friend, nothing more) and I can't help but worry.

Often, the promise that you'll still be friends is a white lie designed to make the actual break-up less confrontational.

[rogueboy]

This is as much me trying to get my thoughts sorted out as anything. Feedback appreciated, but not necessary, as always.

Brief recap (some of my recent posts have more details): Met a girl through OKC about a month ago, but due to various scheduling issues, haven't met her in person. Between the online messages and the text messages since, we seem to get along well and are both interested (possibly even excited, though I can't say for certain based on her texts, obviously) to meet each other. This past week she was out of town (got back Thursday), had an interview Friday (also my birthday, so I wasn't free either), bachelorette party that she was in charge of on Saturday, and the possibility of having to drive down (on Sunday) to DC for an interview tomorrow. This was all based on a text exchange on Saturday (yesterday); she was going to text me this afternoon whether she would be free tonight, but I haven't heard from her. And because one month isn't long enough for scheduling conflicts, I'm going to be out of town for a little over a week, leaving Thursday afternoon.

I see a few approaches:
1. Try to reschedule something for this week before I leave (Wednesday or earlier).
2. Wait until after I get back (2 weeks from today) to try to schedule something.
3. Let it go.

All of those, obviously, ignore the possibility of her trying to reschedule, but that's obviously something that's not in my control.

Right now, I'm debating between options 1 and 2 (I just don't see a big draw in #3, since there has been 1 night that wasn't work-related, and that was when she didn't get a second interview that she really wanted).

[WarKitty]

This is as much me trying to get my thoughts sorted out as anything. Feedback appreciated, but not necessary, as always.

Brief recap (some of my recent posts have more details): Met a girl through OKC about a month ago, but due to various scheduling issues, haven't met her in person. Between the online messages and the text messages since, we seem to get along well and are both interested (possibly even excited, though I can't say for certain based on her texts, obviously) to meet each other. This past week she was out of town (got back Thursday), had an interview Friday (also my birthday, so I wasn't free either), bachelorette party that she was in charge of on Saturday, and the possibility of having to drive down (on Sunday) to DC for an interview tomorrow. This was all based on a text exchange on Saturday (yesterday); she was going to text me this afternoon whether she would be free tonight, but I haven't heard from her. And because one month isn't long enough for scheduling conflicts, I'm going to be out of town for a little over a week, leaving Thursday afternoon.

I see a few approaches:
1. Try to reschedule something for this week before I leave (Wednesday or earlier).
2. Wait until after I get back (2 weeks from today) to try to schedule something.
3. Let it go.

All of those, obviously, ignore the possibility of her trying to reschedule, but that's obviously something that's not in my control.

Right now, I'm debating between options 1 and 2 (I just don't see a big draw in #3, since there has been 1 night that wasn't work-related, and that was when she didn't get a second interview that she really wanted).

I'd try for #1. Something short and light might be best, to avoid extra scheduling issues. Maybe coffee?

[Castaras]

Often, the promise that you'll still be friends is a white lie designed to make the actual break-up less confrontational.

I'll just add to this... the two relationships I've been in, the first I broke up, and we pretty much never spoke again. I managed to recover reasonably quickly and get on with my life.

The second, we broke up, stayed chatting regularly and talking to each other, and it just drew out the depression and problems for both of us (especially him).

I've heard of a few people where they could stay friends afterwards. I've heard of people who broke up, didn't talk for months, and were able to be friends after the time away. But most end up with the friendship broken, I find.

[The Succubus]

I've heard of a few people where they could stay friends afterwards. I've heard of people who broke up, didn't talk for months, and were able to be friends after the time away. But most end up with the friendship broken, I find.

/sadpanda

Well, she seemed relatively happy the last time I spoke with her. Maybe I should just leave it at that. I did manage to catch up with a long lost friend today, so at least my day finishes on a high note.

[sktarq]

Well, The ex gf I mentioned a couple pages back and how to deal with her and her alcoholism etc. The situation has changed and I need some different advice on how to deal with it. In short she threw herself in front of a train this weekend and died at the scene. Not okay at the moment and . . . well in a bit of an emotional storm and need . . . something.
Not the first suicide of somebody I've known but the first of someone I've loved.

[Serpentine]

Oh geeze Sktarq, that's terrible I can't think of anything to say that wouldn't be trite and cliched... but I'm willing to listen if you need it?

[Reluctance]

Rogueboy: Given her history of canceling, at the very least, you're not a priority. At worst, I've known girls who strung guys along with reason after reason, just to see how long they could.

Continue to talk to her, but it's now on her if she wants to make actual plans. And do get some more irons in the fire. This kinda-sorta-maybe thing should not be your big and newsworthy.

Exes: IME, you only have a shot at friendship if you have a friendship infrastructure in place. I'd stay friends with a girl if we both had mutual friends, say, or if we were both active Playgrounders. Smart people will try doing things like commingling friend circles during the relationship. It's not perfect, but something that forces both partners to moderate themselves helps a lot.

Sktarq: Remember when I said that you couldn't magic someone better by loving them hard enough? She had issues way above your pay grade.

Do spend time with friends, and do force yourself to go out and do things you like doing. The important thing for you now is not to let yourself become directionless.

[WarKitty]

sktarq...there's really nothing magic to say here. That sucks. I wish I could say something profound. We're here to listen to you though, and provide all the virtual hugs and cuddles you want.

Edit: Please remember. This isn't your fault. It doesn't mean you weren't good enough. It doesn't even mean she didn't love you. It means things were messed up.

[urkthegurk]

I get FB is different to RL, but yeah not expecting much romantically from this now. I didn't come out straight and say "Wanna go on a date" I kinda thought that was implied and there was me thinking I was being all confident and direction

Dates aren't implied. Although she might be more inclined to go on a date with you if you hang out casually first. Get to know each other, she can see you aren't a troll...

[Castaras]

Sktarq, have some hugs. It's not much, but it's all I can give.

I am so sorry. It wasn't your fault.

[arguskos]

Well, The ex gf I mentioned a couple pages back and how to deal with her and her alcoholism etc. The situation has changed and I need some different advice on how to deal with it. In short she threw herself in front of a train this weekend and died at the scene. Not okay at the moment and . . . well in a bit of an emotional storm and need . . . something.
Not the first suicide of somebody I've known but the first of someone I've loved.

"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known." Rest well, oh restless soul. May you find the peace you searched for so stridently.

You're in my thoughts, sktarq. Go well, my friend.

[Fragenstein]

Rogueboy: Given her history of canceling, at the very least, you're not a priority. At worst, I've known girls who strung guys along with reason after reason, just to see how long they could.

It sounds like she's keeping our Rogue as a 'Plan B'. That's where a girl maintains a fallback date just in case her real plans don't work out.

I've been 'Plan B' many, many times. It's a degrading position to be in. My advice? Tell her you don't have time to anything until you get back. Make her wait. Schedule something definite (put some plans into motion, something enticing), but schedule it at your convenience rather than hers at this point.

If she has a genuine interest then she'll show up once she knows you've stopped letting her pull all the strings.


And skatrq? One piece of advice that, possibly, nobody has given you yet... it's okay to be angry. This is a person you cared about who decided on their own to leave in the worst way possible. It was ultimately a selfish act. They left and in no way are required to face the consequences, but everyone else who were part of the life they threw away are.

I know there's going to be guilt. You can't stop that. You can't know how you could have been there and prevented this. Ultimately, you will never know. But there's also guilt over being angry because how can you be angry at something so tragic?

Well, you can be angry because they didn't consider it important enough to reach out to you for help.

You can be sad because they're gone. You can be hurt because they're gone. But just remember that you can also be angry because they left, and it's not your fault that you feel that way.

[rogueboy]

Rogueboy: Given her history of canceling, at the very least, you're not a priority. At worst, I've known girls who strung guys along with reason after reason, just to see how long they could.

Continue to talk to her, but it's now on her if she wants to make actual plans. And do get some more irons in the fire. This kinda-sorta-maybe thing should not be your big and newsworthy.

It sounds like she's keeping our Rogue as a 'Plan B'. That's where a girl maintains a fallback date just in case her real plans don't work out.

I've been 'Plan B' many, many times. It's a degrading position to be in. My advice? Tell her you don't have time to anything until you get back. Make her wait. Schedule something definite (put some plans into motion, something enticing), but schedule it at your convenience rather than hers at this point.

If she has a genuine interest then she'll show up once she knows you've stopped letting her pull all the strings.

Honestly, I've kind of known that I'm not the #1 priority from pretty early on; she's trying to get a job as a teacher, and the end of the month is more or less the deadline for making that happen. So the question ends up being where I end up in her priorities after that deadline passes.

As to putting things off until after my vacation, that won't be hard at all. Between the gym, softball, and racquetball, I won't be getting home until 7-730 any day (so 830-9 before I'd be able to do anything, realistically), and still have to pack for my trip anyway.

edit: Sent her a text asking about how her plans from Saturday went. We'll see what happens.

[sktarq]

Thank you to those who replied.
Honestly Things are still bouncing around in my head like flubber. I'm still pretty damn early in the grief cycle at this point. It's so unexpected that I can't quite get my hands around it. For those who gave advice about staying busy and being with people etc thanx. I know that's good advice but my brain hadn't gotten around to thinking it yet.
Anger? I can't be angry at her. While this isn't a popular idea I've never felt suicide is really that selfish for some people, and you can't live because your death is too much of an inconvienience to those around you. . . really could you even live that way? Would I want her to live for that? Possibly as a bridge to something more stable but I don't feel I have the right to make that kind of demand on the pain and despair she was living with.

The not my fault thing is going to be complicated for months I know. I was too big an influence for too many years for that too be easy to deal with. Including the time since we broke up with programs, job references and all.

And as for Cas and Warkitty *hugs* thanx . . . I needed those. .

This has been more helpful than I expected to have you bunch respond. Thank you

[Sturmcrow]

Well, The ex gf I mentioned a couple pages back and how to deal with her and her alcoholism etc. The situation has changed and I need some different advice on how to deal with it. In short she threw herself in front of a train this weekend and died at the scene. Not okay at the moment and . . . well in a bit of an emotional storm and need . . . something.
Not the first suicide of somebody I've known but the first of someone I've loved.

Go speak to a grief counselor

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, The ex gf I mentioned a couple pages back and how to deal with her and her alcoholism etc. The situation has changed and I need some different advice on how to deal with it. In short she threw herself in front of a train this weekend and died at the scene. Not okay at the moment and . . . well in a bit of an emotional storm and need . . . something.
Not the first suicide of somebody I've known but the first of someone I've loved.

My condolences, buddy. Hang in there. If you need anything, you can PM me. I've lost loved ones in similar situations and I know how much it hurts.

[dehro]

Go speak to a grief counselor

or.. you know.. a friend, or a family member..yours or hers, as suits you best.

[noparlpf]

Well, The ex gf I mentioned a couple pages back and how to deal with her and her alcoholism etc. The situation has changed and I need some different advice on how to deal with it. In short she threw herself in front of a train this weekend and died at the scene. Not okay at the moment and . . . well in a bit of an emotional storm and need . . . something.
Not the first suicide of somebody I've known but the first of someone I've loved.

I don't even know what to say. I'm really sorry this happened. Try talking to people (family, friends, a counselor/therapist), keeping a journal or something, don't be afraid to cry if you need to.

[Eadin]

Ranting >_<:

Spoiler

Show

So...
I met a guy. Sweet, cute, my type, lots of common interests and we get along great. We met at a festival where we were part of a group of volunteers and ended up hanging out for 95% of the time. The whole time he was always nice and fun to be around.Sounds good, right?

Now my mind has gone into panic mode because I have a sort of going for drinks date with him in 2 weeks (yay for planning ahead).
My past dating experiences were mostly big fails and I'm starting to fear for a repeat.
Of course, the usual "what if he doesn't like me" is in there too.
He's shy and I'm worried that I'll have to be the one taking all the initiative, that he'll be clingy and other stuff like that ( I have no proof he'll be that way).
In short, I'm looking for reasons to cancel the date. I don't know why, because I really like him.I don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of this.
*headdesks*

[ThiagoMartell]

Ranting >_<:

Spoiler

Show

So
I met a guy. Sweet, cute, my type, lots of common interests and we get along great. Sounds good, right?
Now my mind has gone into panic mode because I have a sort of going for drinks date with him in 2 weeks (yay for planning ahead).
My past dating experiences were mostly big fails and I'm starting to fear for a repeat.
Of course, the usual "what if he doesn't like me" is in there too.
He's shy and I'm worried that I'll have to be the "dominant" (that sounds so wrong) one in the relationship, that he'll be clingy and other stuff like that ( I have no proof he'll be that way).
In short, I'm looking for reasons to cancel the date. I don't know why, because I really like him. We met at a festival where we were part of a group of volunteers and ended up hanging out for 95% of the time. The whole time he was always nice and fun to be around. I don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of this.
*headdesks*

Try to calm down and let the ball roll. I know it's easier said than done, but I think that's what you should do. Overthinking is probably only going to hurt you.

[Reluctance]

He's shy and I'm worried that I'll have to be the one taking all the initiative, that he'll be clingy and other stuff like that ( I have no proof he'll be that way).
In short, I'm looking for reasons to cancel the date. I don't know why, because I really like him.I don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of this.

You're skittish because you've been burned before. We've all been there. The trick is to know that you can always give him a "you're great, but I'm not in the right place for this" speech if things end up not working out. And blocking his number if that fails to take.

If you're worried about the past repeating itself, it doesn't hurt to write out what attracted you to past exes in the beginning, what made things fall apart, and what early tells there were of the later traits. It's helpful to know if you're sabotaging yourself somehow. That's more of a learning thing, though.

[rogueboy]

He's shy and I'm worried that I'll have to be the one taking all the initiative, that he'll be clingy and other stuff like that ( I have no proof he'll be that way).

You said that you hung out a lot while you were volunteering... Did that leave you with any expectation that you'll have to drive the conversation, or that he's clingy? I know that I'd usually describe myself as being shy, particularly when first meeting someone, but if there are a lot of shared interests I can draw myself out a lot more, and (I don't think) I force anyone else to 'run' the conversation. This is more from self-observation in the non-dating world, but it's worth considering.


Update on my adventure (girl who kept cancelling on me, scroll up for more details): I still haven't heard from her since our brief discussion last Saturday of her bachelorette party and potential interview on Monday. I asked her on Monday how the bachelorette party went, but haven't sent her anything else since. I may ask (probably tomorrow) what happened with that interview (she didn't know if she'd get it last time we talked), but at least for the next week or so (while I'm out of town), I'm going to leave it largely on her to make contact. Also, I'll be largely incommunicado for a little over a week, and am not taking my laptop with me, though I'll try to check in at least on occasion.

[Sturmcrow]

or.. you know.. a friend, or a family member..yours or hers, as suits you best.

True, talk to someone. I just think that someone who is trained how to handle the grieving process would be best. From the posts he obviously has a lot of emotions and involvement here.

[arguskos]

Well, I asked someone out. Now, we'll see how it goes. Wish me luck, ladies and gents! Hopefully, she is interested. If not, I made it clear that I'd still like to be friends (true statement, she's fun to spend time with), and I am confident that she takes me at my word on this one.

Overthinking, overthinking. Gotta just let it go, be relaxed, and trust to the flows of fate on this one. *breathes deep, gets ready for sleep, plans on relaxing*

Update for those who cared.

Didn't go as planned. Was informed she isn't looking to date right now. I understood and it didn't really affect or ruin our evening (we have a casual Monday soiree thing). Perhaps, in the future, things may change. Otherwise, looks like I got shot down in flames. Again. *shrug* Oh well. Back on the horse and all that.

[INoKnowNames]

Rather than making a new thread for my situation (and placing a -stupid- piece of filler conversation that ended up derailing the thread and painting me in a light I did not mean to be under), I should have just posted here....

Learning from that past mistake, I'll just skip right to my point: I am going on my first date ever tomorrow.

On the outside, I am calm and quiet, slightly proud of myself, and overall happy about this.

On the inside, I'm ready to vomit, scared out of my mind that I might mess up, horrified of any of the bad possibilities of things happening, and overall ready to freak the freak out.

Thank goodness she likes some of the same things that I do; once stuff starts happening, the shell of nervousness and sweat usually gets shed rather quickly.

My biggest fear (this is the part that's worth reading if you want to respond) is that I'm not interesting enough to keep a conversation going, nor that I'd be able to hold up my own end, and to that end I'm trying to think of different things to ask her when we go out to eat after hanging out. Any suggestions?