Personal Woes and Advice 2

[Coidzor]

After a few hair-raising days worrying, my aunt is back at the group home, no worse for wear. It turns out her fall was CAUSED by the bleed in her brainstem, not THE CAUSE of it, and thanks to some very great doctors and nurses, that bleed's dissolved and her blood pressure's back to normal. And more recently she was back on solid meals and sat in her wheelchair for over 3 hours. This is a great relief for us, and once again she's proven the odds mean nothing to her. I'm so glad she's okay!

That's wonderful news.

[rogueboy]

Rant/vent...

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I've been feeling fairly depressed (not clinically) recently. I left the graduate program I was in in early May (ironically, because I had been depressed then, too*), moved across the country (back to where I grew up) in early June, and have been without a job since. I am currently looking at possibly going back to school for pharmacy (I have a few info sessions to go to, along with a career adviser at the local community college, but those aren't until next week or the week after). Basically, because I don't have a job right now, I have no money for anything. I'm surviving on the leftover bits and pieces of my the savings I managed in grad school (I was able to save somewhere between $-200 and $150 a month, roughly, from a not-so-massive base), and free food/lodging (well, just about everything except miscellaneous stuff and gas, really) from my parents (until I figure out something that will let me pay for things). Which would be fine, except that when my friends and I hang out, it tends to be a 20 mile drive each way to join them... so I go through gas at a ridiculous rate, which I can't afford.

Pile that onto the rest of the whole "I moved across the country and have completely changed course career-wise", and I don't quite know what I'm asking for... ideas are nice, but I know the basics: find a job, once I know more about the pharmacy programs I'll be better able to figure things out, etc. Commiseration is nice, but not entirely productive. Maybe I'm just venting? I don't know. I'm tired right now, so that doesn't help, of course.

* I was seeing a counselor there, for other reasons, although we decided that clinical depression or similar wasn't the case (I'm not sad in general, just not happy with where I am right now); hypothyroidism was the only medical possibility that made sense, but blood test ruled that out, so I really do believe this is just a situational thing, not more.

[dehro]

as you checked your thyroid..did you check for Addisons disease too?

[rogueboy]

I don't believe I was, but my brief look at the symptoms don't seem to apply - I actually have elevated blood pressure, and no other physical symptoms aside from feeling blue. Which I can distract myself from when I hang out with people (not just pretending, I don't actually feel down or even remember that I was beforehand when I'm with people), I just go back to it afterwards.

[dehro]

yeah..that doesn't sound like it then. addisons comes with moodswings but more importantly, there are a bunch of other physical symptoms that come with..so, no, not it.

[Trekkin]

For once, my problem isn't that I'm sad about things:

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It's that I'm mad about things. Or, more specifically, people.

I really don't like the type of people I'm shortly expected to work with. By that I mean the thought of walking into a conference hall full of them has made me literally punch through a wall while screaming, and I'm not nearly this violently angry normally.

Part of it, I know, is envy. Despite years of diligent lab work, I didn't get into grad school during the 2012/2013 cycle; grad students and professors, by definition, did. I know a financial hangup spoiled my paperwork and so forth, but apparently that doesn't matter to the metaphorical green haze over my eyes. They think they're better than me--and they are, from one standpoint at least, right.

More than that, though, I don't get along well with "good students". I don't run marathons and I don't drink and I'm bad at witty banter and I'm ugly; I don't belong in a bioinformatics lab. I can feel my colleagues judging me and my superiors not bothering. Everywhere I'm the lowest class of barely-sapient scum they see fit to let slither through the doors of their fine institutions full of real scientists, and I should be grateful for whatever opportunity to gluteally osculate my betters they see fit to give me.

I would gladly, but I'm bad at it. I see nothing but problems and insufficiencies and opportunities and impending crises; I frankly suck at cheerleading and ego stroking. "Networking" makes my skin crawl. The thought that this, this is how such brilliant intellects interact, this is what they waste their time with... I keep waking up from nightmares from my grad school interviews screaming in wordless rage, and everyone in the house is terrified of me.

I need to get over myself. I know that. I also need to do it fast so I can properly suck up to people at the upcoming grad fair and do it right, according to the mountains of unsolicited advice my grad student friends have given me.

I just don't know how.

[Crow]

For once, my problem isn't that I'm sad about things:

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It's that I'm mad about things. Or, more specifically, people.

I really don't like the type of people I'm shortly expected to work with. By that I mean the thought of walking into a conference hall full of them has made me literally punch through a wall while screaming, and I'm not nearly this violently angry normally.

Part of it, I know, is envy. Despite years of diligent lab work, I didn't get into grad school during the 2012/2013 cycle; grad students and professors, by definition, did. I know a financial hangup spoiled my paperwork and so forth, but apparently that doesn't matter to the metaphorical green haze over my eyes. They think they're better than me--and they are, from one standpoint at least, right.

More than that, though, I don't get along well with "good students". I don't run marathons and I don't drink and I'm bad at witty banter and I'm ugly; I don't belong in a bioinformatics lab. I can feel my colleagues judging me and my superiors not bothering. Everywhere I'm the lowest class of barely-sapient scum they see fit to let slither through the doors of their fine institutions full of real scientists, and I should be grateful for whatever opportunity to gluteally osculate my betters they see fit to give me.

I would gladly, but I'm bad at it. I see nothing but problems and insufficiencies and opportunities and impending crises; I frankly suck at cheerleading and ego stroking. "Networking" makes my skin crawl. The thought that this, this is how such brilliant intellects interact, this is what they waste their time with... I keep waking up from nightmares from my grad school interviews screaming in wordless rage, and everyone in the house is terrified of me.

I need to get over myself. I know that. I also need to do it fast so I can properly suck up to people at the upcoming grad fair and do it right, according to the mountains of unsolicited advice my grad student friends have given me.

I just don't know how.

You and I are a lot alike.

Turn it around. Show that you are better than them, and that you don't need to "network" to get ahead. Be excellent in your work, and let your results speak for themselves. I learned early though, that everything I do, I need to make my mark on it. Not for my ego mind you (ok, maybe a little bit for my ego), but because the slobbering sycophants (some call them "networkers") at my place of business will do their best to take credit for my work otherwise. Be the best, and do it in a way that nobody can deny it was you.

As your successes build, nobody will be able to express "superiority" over you without looking like a complete jackass to their more well-informed peers.

I hate to sound like a Sith Lord or something, but that anger you feel gives you strength. While I never advocate holding on to anger, I do believe it is important to understand why it is there, and use /that/ to drive yourself to excel.

[GM.Casper]

I went to a therapist. It was all empty platitudes, like 'I cant solve your problems for you', 'you don't actually want to be healed' and 'that will be [huge amount of money], please'.

[dehro]

I went to a therapist. It was all empty platitudes, like 'I cant solve your problems for you', 'you don't actually want to be healed' and 'that will be [huge amount of money], please'.

wait..isn't that the norm?

[The Succubus]

wait..isn't that the norm?

No. A good therapist, whatever their specialization, is worth their weight in gold. Finding one with good medical qualifications can be tricky and finding one you can open up to is even harder. Therapy is an active process, meaning you have to be willing to talk with them about the stuff that's bugging you. A therapist is not a psychiatrist and its important to realize the difference between the two.

Don't write all therapists off as junk just because of a singular bad experience.

[WarKitty]

So the recent thread about bullying made me think: What do you do if there's no authorities to go to? Or worse, if the authorities think you're the one provoking it? Especially for those of us who aren't kids in school anymore? I've been in the situation before, and what struck me was my own utter helplessness to do anything but run as far away as I could. Thankfully at that time that coincided with my plans...but what if I hadn't? What do you do when someone's using the authorities to help them bully?

[Hazyshade]

*offers hugs to anyone and everyone*

Work stress has developed into Generalised Heebie Jeebies. This is causing odd phenomena like being ravenously hungry then full after three mouthfuls, crushing on my ex-flatmate, trying to pick political fights on twitter, waking up at 4am feeling completely refreshed, and buying a Raspberry Pi that I have no idea what to do with or how. I'm hoping that confessing this strange behaviour will make it stop! Love you all x

[Coidzor]

So the recent thread about bullying made me think: What do you do if there's no authorities to go to? Or worse, if the authorities think you're the one provoking it? Especially for those of us who aren't kids in school anymore? I've been in the situation before, and what struck me was my own utter helplessness to do anything but run as far away as I could. Thankfully at that time that coincided with my plans...but what if I hadn't? What do you do when someone's using the authorities to help them bully?

Or when the authorities themselves are bullies.

A good question, and one I wish that we had answered as a society or I at least had an answer for.

[Trekkin]

You and I are a lot alike.

Turn it around. Show that you are better than them, and that you don't need to "network" to get ahead. Be excellent in your work, and let your results speak for themselves.

I wish that were possible.

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Realistically, I know that some of the things I know are not true. My bosses, even the ex-bosses I can no longer work directly for by dint of graduation (and subsequent move across the country), do not despise me as a useless, foolish waste of air. I have had too many girlfriends to honestly believe I'm completely unattractive. I'm not significantly better or worse than many other people, despite what the voices in my head say.

Unfortunately, I can't stop knowing them now, and I can't stop that being foremost in my mind. All the things I hate, really hate about myself, have all got mixed up with everything I've come to hate about everything else, and the litany never stops. I can't hear about anyone without finding a reason to utterly despise them. I can't even look at a list of prices without literally vomiting over my feelings about the economy--and the less I say about salaries the better.

When people speak, I don't hear the words. I hear the mockery, judgment, and dark writhing evil behind them -- regardless of whether or not they are rationally there. I can't talk to anyone without watching for that lip twitch or eyebrow flicker that screams "you are nothing, you will always be nothing, because you are not us. don't call us, we'll call you." There's always subtext to everything, and I miss the text for it sometimes.

I can't think well of anyone anymore. I can't remember the last time I respected anyone; I see success and wonder what happened behind closed doors and whether they smiled as widely when they were crushing other people's dreams. I see kindness and wonder where this is going to sit on their resume. Thankfully, people have finally gone along with my urgent requests to ignore my birthday and pretend I don't exist at Christmastime; I can give gifts robotically (and then tear myself up mentally over getting them the wrong thing) but I can't accept them without feeling utterly rotten over not expressing enough gratitude.

I can't think well of anything anymore, come to that. Every system built by people looks designed specifically to put a boot in other people's faces and make them glad of it; everything in which people have never been complicit just seems completely mad and utterly heartless, which is a great improvement over being actively cruel. That's why I'm a scientist. I can lose myself in the mathematics of it all and forget that on the other end are a lot of egocentric, preening, unctuous people with agendas.

My dad used to want me to get into business. Ideally with him, managing the finances of country clubs. I've tried to get it across to him that I've been around too many rich people to want a lot of money--and that, functionally, while I'm more than capable of crunching those numbers, I can't talk to "businessmen" without very rapidly degrading into a cackling madman. I hear them with their sports metaphors and their suits and their good hair, and I just see the spoiled trust funders I went to school with. It would help if they said different things, actually.

It sounds ludicrously hippieish, I know, but...I can't see why anyone needs to spend fifty years trying to become a millionaire, let alone everyone. All it gets you is the ability to start over again, trying to become a billionaire. It's the same way with everything else: success gets you the "privilege" of trying again, until finally you fail, and then you get quietly and happily set aside. There's always someone higher up than you, and that's all that's expected to matter: how gilded is the boot in your face, and who's the biggest nob you can put your boot in, and how snidely can you laugh about it over drinks later.

And I can't get away from it. I can't hear anything all day but the constant screaming that this can't be real, this can't be right, everyone would go mad...and then I can't play along. I work; I cannot, after work, scheme. Naturally, this makes me one of the most preferred targets for scheming and scorn. I barely notice most of it and have no idea how to deal with it when a colleague makes a crack about my weight or lack of fashion or admittedly workmanlike lab technique. I usually agree, because they're right, and that's apparently not the right thing.

It hurts, though. Everyone talking to me for long enough gets the same bemused expression and the same slightly distracted cadence of speech, and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I used to think it was interrupting, because apparently I'd always clip the last half-syllable of everyone's sentences, but I've been very careful to wait now and the same thing happens. Even by email.

I just...don't fit. I try. I got a haircut the other day, and I asked for the least remarkable cut possible, the sort that says absolutely nothing about me whatsoever. People said it looked jaunty, which of course means it looks like I'm starved for attention and immature.

I want to work. That's all I want, other than not to die, I suppose. And I can work, and people call me a genius, an intellectual titan, et cetera, in documents I'm not supposed to see. But that's while I'm free, and studying, and temporary. Temporary people are easier to deal with. Then when I'm being interviewed for anything, the work part is...fake. I'm supposed to ask "the right" questions, but all the questions I can think of are with problems, because that's what I'm supposed to solve. I'm supposed to make myself sound impressive, but I don't know what impressive is. I just work as well as I can as much as I can, and that's not good enough. I get humored a lot, I think.

I don't get accepted to grad schools, despite literally perfect GREs and an amazing GPA. Of course they never tell you why. But, by the numbers, everyone else at that particular school drinks. Socially, I suppose. I don't know how to do that; were it still fashionable, I'd say there's a considerable chance I might have some sort of disorder. Everyone looks at me funny for not drinking for health reasons, anyway. More than that, I don't know where to learn, and I have a feeling it's too late. It's a small industry, and serious old men exchange knowing glances about people and say idiomatic things and that's your career on fire. Ultimately, there's no shortage of geniuses, so people want, as near as I can tell, some sort of pleasant genius.

I don't know what to do. Obviously, I've got my head so far up a dark place my spine's a spiral, and I'm guessing there's nothing for that but to "just stop" and get out of my head for a while. Dunno how though. At the same time, my brother is apparently terrified of me, and my parents think I'm terrible and want to kick me out of the house -- and before you start, it's been all of two weeks since I got done with college, so perhaps I'm not totally worthless yet. I just don't know how to stop projecting this general aura of malice, how to seem like a generally nice and harmless person. Heck, even my friends say I'm "intense", which I gather means "fatally unpleasant". I don't want to be. I want to learn how to calculate, how to network, how to position myself, how to "be liked" in that generalized, Death-of-a-Salesman sense, so then I can go work. No one believes it, but I really do just want to add to the body of human knowledge and improve everyone's lot through better technology. I don't honestly care about anyone's profits or prestige, and I think they can tell that. But I want to care, if I can make myself care, because that's what's in the way of the next step in the process. I want to see the good in people, and smile, and things like that...but somehow, despite therapy and medication, I cannot.

How do I stop being weird?

[Chen]

How do I stop being weird?

I think going to a professional for help would do you some good. The problems you posted are fairly deep and fairly complex and I don't think anyone here is going to be able to give you a simple solution to it.

[theangelJean]

I wish that were possible.

[*snip*]

How do I stop being weird?

It sounds like you are in a very difficult and dark head-space. I can appreciate having intrusive thoughts that aren't entirely rational - I've been there myself. My answer is that now is the time to get professional help. Counselling and psychological therapy can help you to come up with methods of dealing with these thoughts, and medication can stop the thoughts from being intrusive, and let you get used to not having them at the forefront of your mind. (I'm definitely not saying that you must take medication, just letting you know it is an option.) Then you can remember what it is like to actually enjoy life.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a doctor. I am also a person with a mental illness and all of the above is from personal experience. The fourth health professional I saw helped me more than the first, second and third ones - and she has helped me immensely. The third medication I tried helped more than the first and second ones we tried (each one works for some people, but none work for everyone). So it is not an easy path I'm suggesting, but it definitely can work.

[GM.Casper]

How do I even tell whether I should seek therapist or a psychiatrist?

[Astrella]

A therapist offers therapy, a psychiatrist is a doctor, so treatment there will go a more medical route (e.g. medication and such.).

[WarKitty]

So, trying to finish up my program:

I'm supposed to be on a graduate assistantship, which means I work for the university and take classes. Unfortunately, the way the system works, if don't complete all your semesters back-to-back, there's basically no guarantee that you'll have your job. No medical or other leave of any sort. Which is annoying by itself, as it means you move out there on the information that you're going to be paid for going to school, and then find out instead after taking time off that there's a real possibility of having to go into debt instead.

But that's not the issue right now. My department wants to have me back. I'm requesting accommodations. The trouble is no one seems able to approve them. The student disability office won't because it's a matter of employment. The employment disability office won't because it's a matter of academics. Which means I basically have nowhere to go - everyone agrees what I'm asking for is quite reasonable and should be granted, but no one can actually do it! I swear, if I can't finish up my degree because of stupid bureaucratic paperwork not being able to figure out how to do something that doesn't have a written procedure...

[Haluesen]

So, trying to finish up my program:

I'm supposed to be on a graduate assistantship, which means I work for the university and take classes. Unfortunately, the way the system works, if don't complete all your semesters back-to-back, there's basically no guarantee that you'll have your job. No medical or other leave of any sort. Which is annoying by itself, as it means you move out there on the information that you're going to be paid for going to school, and then find out instead after taking time off that there's a real possibility of having to go into debt instead.

But that's not the issue right now. My department wants to have me back. I'm requesting accommodations. The trouble is no one seems able to approve them. The student disability office won't because it's a matter of employment. The employment disability office won't because it's a matter of academics. Which means I basically have nowhere to go - everyone agrees what I'm asking for is quite reasonable and should be granted, but no one can actually do it! I swear, if I can't finish up my degree because of stupid bureaucratic paperwork not being able to figure out how to do something that doesn't have a written procedure...

That is absurd. Gotta hate bureaucratic nonsense. Still hang in there Kitty. It'll work out, like you said it is a reasonable request and they actually want you back. That's gotta count for something, that means you're doing well.

[WarKitty]

That is absurd. Gotta hate bureaucratic nonsense. Still hang in there Kitty. It'll work out, like you said it is a reasonable request and they actually want you back. That's gotta count for something, that means you're doing well.

Right now I'm working on a polite way to say "Do you morons realize what you just said?" I've also sent an email to the ombudsman explaining the situation and am working on gathering a bit more information so I can push on SOMEONE to get their buttocks off their forms and do something.

[MetDitto]

I was super depressed and anxious about a variety of things - college, coming out to people, some medical stuff, self-image and weight stuff, some relationships with some of my friends. Most of those have been turning around for the better... why do I still feel awful always?

[Haluesen]

Right now I'm working on a polite way to say "Do you morons realize what you just said?" I've also sent an email to the ombudsman explaining the situation and am working on gathering a bit more information so I can push on SOMEONE to get their buttocks off their forms and do something.

Well sounds like you are working on it then. Definitely a lot better than doing nothing. Well keep at it. I'd give some better, more applicable advice but I'm not entirely familiar with how circumstances like that happen or get worked out. Still if you are doing what you can then at least that is some progress. Now just to wait for people to get their heads out of their asses and get the situation resolved.

I was super depressed and anxious about a variety of things - college, coming out to people, some medical stuff, self-image and weight stuff, some relationships with some of my friends. Most of those have been turning around for the better... why do I still feel awful always?

Ditto, it sounds like you had some fair reasons to be depressed. I'm glad to hear things are turning around but it is reasonable to still have some lingering feelings after all that. I've been through it a little bit too from time to time, but I think you just ride it out, keep working things out, and find a few things to keep your mind occupied. If after a while you still feel super depressed, I'm gonna have to suggest you wait for a response here from someone with a little more experience than me with those sort of feelings. That said I hope what I said helps, and just keep pushing on.

[rogueboy]

I was super depressed and anxious about a variety of things - college, coming out to people, some medical stuff, self-image and weight stuff, some relationships with some of my friends. Most of those have been turning around for the better... why do I still feel awful always?

My guess would be that it's become habitual - that you feel awful because that's how you've been feeling, and that's what's "comfortable" to your subconscious.

My advice on getting over that would be to find a hobby/activity that you haven't been doing (ideally, that you've wanted to try, but it can be something entirely new), and do it once or twice a week. Especially if you can do this with a different group of people than you normally hang out with, you'll put yourself into a completely different mindset, and then you'll be fighting your habitual depression with something entirely new and interesting. That should throw your habits off by enough to confuse yourself into reevaluating your default status, which should help you get your default to a more positive place.

[WarKitty]

Ok, practical advice needed. I was told, because of the prior issues with the disability offices, that I would need to approach the graduate college directly with the issue. I am not comfortable doing that - their job isn't to understand and deal with disability, it's academics. What I need is an email basically saying "This nonsense is unacceptable. Try harder." Except I'm not sure how to word that.

[dehro]

Ok, practical advice needed. I was told, because of the prior issues with the disability offices, that I would need to approach the graduate college directly with the issue. I am not comfortable doing that - their job isn't to understand and deal with disability, it's academics. What I need is an email basically saying "This nonsense is unacceptable. Try harder." Except I'm not sure how to word that.

I'm sorry to say this but if they tell you explicitly "you must take this up with x" and you don't try taking it up with x, "because you're not confortable with it" you don't have much of a ground to stand on to protest that they aren't trying hard enough.
to force them to deal with the issue you must prove that you tried all other avenues and make it their responsability, you can't do that when they tell you that there is an avenue to pursue and you don't want to.

What you can do, in case this is not already so, is to force them to put the procedure in writing for you (as in, headed letter telling you, "the office that deals with this is this and that") so you can show that letter to said office.

[WarKitty]

I'm sorry to say this but if they tell you explicitly "you must take this up with x" and you don't try taking it up with x, "because you're not confortable with it" you don't have much of a ground to stand on to protest that they aren't trying hard enough.
to force them to deal with the issue you must prove that you tried all other avenues and make it their responsability, you can't do that when they tell you that there is an avenue to pursue and you don't want to.

What you can do, in case this is not already so, is to force them to put the procedure in writing for you (as in, headed letter telling you, "the office that deals with this is this and that") so you can show that letter to said office.

Basically, my worry is the way the politics are set up, if I try their avenue and it doesn't work I'm SOL. I'm going to be facing "we said no once what are you doing trying to go behind our backs?" from the graduate college. I don't think I can do what they're telling me to do without a serious risk of a likely permanent discriminatory outcome. If I have to do what they say, I might as well just give up, pack my bags, and forget that I ever wanted this degree.

Edit: I will have to go to the department they're suggesting eventually. The problem is I will get one shot at it. I'm basically being told I have to take that shot without the support of either of the departments that are supposed to be involved in overseeing disability cases. I think this means I'm not getting a fair hearing, because the office I'm going to have to go to is going to want official university documentation, which would have to come from one of the disability offices. However, once I put in the application based on my health concerns, whatever decision is reached is going to be final. So if I'm lacking official documentation then, there's a good chance I will be denied with no recourse.

[dehro]

all the more reason to require that they put down in writing what the proper procedure is according to them. if you actually have a right to ask for what you're asking for and there's no reason for them to deny it to you, the more replies you get in writing, the stronger the case you can build when you get to the point where you complain for not being given your dues.

I would write something like "I request that you put down exactly what I should do to obtain x, which I am due in consideration of factor y and disability z, as documented in "stuff".
I have been going back and forth between offices who tell me it's not something they can deal with. This must stop. Please advise in writing exactly what the proper steps are to bring the matter to a satisfactory end."

usually, bureaucracy loves paperwork..but they don't like the paperwork to be about them, so asking for one of them to point the finger at who is to blam for stuff not being done, should get stuff moving.

[WarKitty]

all the more reason to require that they put down in writing what the proper procedure is according to them. if you actually have a right to ask for what you're asking for and there's no reason for them to deny it to you, the more replies you get in writing, the stronger the case you can build when you get to the point where you complain for not being given your dues.

I would write something like "I request that you put down exactly what I should do to obtain x, which I am due in consideration of factor y and disability z, as documented in "stuff".
I have been going back and forth between offices who tell me it's not something they can deal with. This must stop. Please advise in writing exactly what the proper steps are to bring the matter to a satisfactory end."

usually, bureaucracy loves paperwork..but they don't like the paperwork to be about them, so asking for one of them to point the finger at who is to blam for stuff not being done, should get stuff moving.

Yeah that's what I'm working on. I'm basically trying to say "I need support from one of your offices," with a goal of EITHER getting that support OR being told clearly I can't have it. Although they've pretty much said the latter already, I want it as clear as possible. Especially since this sure sounds like a case of "well we don't have a procedure on file to deal with this so we can't do anything."

[rogueboy]

Yeah that's what I'm working on. I'm basically trying to say "I need support from one of your offices," with a goal of EITHER getting that support OR being told clearly I can't have it. Although they've pretty much said the latter already, I want it as clear as possible. Especially since this sure sounds like a case of "well we don't have a procedure on file to deal with this so we can't do anything."

As dehro said, do everything you can to get everything in writing. An email is good, having it on department letterhead is better. At some point, you'll either get someone to address it (by shoving papers into their face from several other people saying "this is your job!"), or you'll have written evidence that everyone is trying to push you off onto another department, in which case you can (legitimately) go over their heads to get someone to force one (or more) of them to behave and give you what you need.