League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo

[TechnOkami]

Question: Say you're in a long game, like a REALLY long game and you already have full build + elixers. If you have the gold for it, is it ever appropriate to sell your boots for another endgame item? (i.e. warmogs, TF, Rylai's)

I think Djinn mentioned a case for Graves where buying a second Phantom Dancer by selling your shoes was ok, but only if you were already at full build, or something like that.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think Djinn mentioned a case for Graves Any AD carry who doesn't need ALL the mobility to win where buying a second Phantom Dancer by selling your shoes was ok, but only if you were already at full build, or something like that.

Fixed it for you. You'll lose a BIT of movespeed (I think...might not be significant), but it's usually worth the return.

[Lix Lorn]

Fixed it for you. You'll lose a BIT of movespeed (I think...might not be significant), but it's usually worth the return.

As a thought, have you considered how the PD nerf would affect this?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Fixed it for you. You'll lose a BIT of movespeed (I think...might not be significant), but it's usually worth the return.

You lose about 75 ms (drop from 475ish to 400ish) 34 ms (430 to 396) to if my math is right (it wasn't). Well worth it for the 30% crit and 30% AS. The way caps work you'd be getting more benefit from speedboosts afterwards too.

Edit: After the nerf (15% to 12% move) we get... 420 to 378. That drops you too far below average speeds to be safe.

[Chess435]

How about for non-carries? Can Rammus (or other tanky jungler) drop his Ninja Tabi for a Warmogs?

[Reynard]

I used Leaguecraft to compare the movement speeds of a Sivir with PD+Zerks to Double PD.

Shoes: 423 speed.
Double PD: 385 speed.

So pretty significant. With Movespeed Quints you get to 399 MS with double PD and to 437 with the boots.

Edit: @ Chess. No. Not even then.

[MCerberus]

I had a game where our Alistar fed and fed hard all game, broke off team fights to jungle, and blame our Cait for all his failures. Why is it always Alistar...

[efdf]

I wouldn't sell boots pretty much ever

[Arbitrarity]

I used Leaguecraft to compare the movement speeds of a Sivir with PD+Zerks to Double PD.

Shoes: 423 speed.
Double PD: 385 speed.

So pretty significant. With Movespeed Quints you get to 399 MS with double PD and to 437 with the boots.

Edit: @ Chess. No. Not even then.

Sivir passive obviously not included; with it, she jumps to 430/459, 482/507 with ult active. That's... not actually too awful. Vayne does about the same, and is only 15 ms slower with double PD when her ult is active. MF with passive up is also similar.

Generally, I'd say that dropping boots is viable only when everything else in your build is filled out, moreso if you have a flat movespeed steroid. Often lategame, as the AD carry, enemies WILL get to you, and you just need to melt them; chasing isn't as important, and kiting only really works if you have dashes. Sometimes this backfires, and the 30-40 ms you lose is too much, but it's kinda important to understand just how much damage an extra PD adds on top of IE/PD/LW/BT/GA/Zerks. Assuming some 103 base AD at 18, you have 360 AD (double pot), about 150% bonus AS, and 63% crit chance. Assume 0.66 base AS (approximate, probably on the high end), and you're looking at (0.66*360*2.008*2.5) nearly 1200 DPS. Trade Zerks for PD, and you add 30% crit/AS, for 1655 DPS, better than 33% increase. Even with a giant AS steroid (say... 90%), you're looking at 1622 vs 2187.
So yeah. Dropping boots for PD is a consistent 33% DPS increase, unless you're going over the AS cap (I.e. Nunu/Tristana). Even then, the crit chance still adds about 20% more DPS.

On an obvious note, this also favors PD more heavily if your champion has some AD steroid. Of course, the only ranged carry with an AD steroid is Vayne, but still.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Assuming some 103 base AD at 18, you have 360 AD (double pot), about 150% bonus AS, and 63% crit chance. Assume 0.66 base AS (approximate, probably on the high end), and you're looking at (0.66*360*2.008*2.5) nearly 1200 DPS. Trade Zerks for PD, and you add 30% crit/AS, for 1655 DPS, better than 33% increase. Even with a giant AS steroid (say... 90%), you're looking at 1622 vs 2187.

Even more that that, since you'll have the +10% crit damage from masteries on top of IE. Too sleepy to figure how much extra DPS it works out to.

[Arbitrarity]

Even more that that, since you'll have the +10% crit damage from masteries on top of IE. Too sleepy to figure how much extra DPS it works out to.

Did that already. See the 2.008? That's (1+(0.63*1.6)). In contrast, the extra PD gives a 2.488 multiplier, for a 23.9% certain DPS multiplier.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Did that already. See the 2.008? That's (1+(0.63*1.6)). In contrast, the extra PD gives a 2.488 multiplier, for a 23.9% certain DPS multiplier.

Ohh, right. That makes sense.

[Arbitrarity]

Acquired Nautilus and Lulu, to add to my support and jungle options. Pix is interesting, and has a lot of potential. Nautilus plays exactly like I expected him to. Next pickup is probably going to be Leona.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Acquired Nautilus and Lulu, to add to my support and jungle options. Pix is interesting, and has a lot of potential. Nautilus plays exactly like I expected him to. Next pickup is probably going to be Leona.

Can't speak for Naut, but Lulu is amazing. Strong harass and amazing utility.

[Stone Heart]

Can someone please explain to me this complaint of stealing farm from people who are not there? In quite a few games now I have seen people complaining about the support/jungler taking the AD carry's/ Mid or top's farm when those people are dead or at base or elsewhere and as such have no way of getting the gold.

It is not a matter of pushing the lane because the people are just last hitting (often under turret) but these people insist that the jungler/support should not kill these minions.

I just can't fathom this, why deny your own team mates gold?

[dgnslyr]

A lot of people who play League of Legends really don't understand what's going on, and can be just plain dumb. There's really no reason not to take creeps when the laner's out, as long as you don't push the lane when you really shouldn't or something.

[Tergon]

If someone asks for you to not take jungle while you're in the act of, say, getting blue buff, then generally I think it's courtesy to let them take it. There is no greater sin for a teammate than having them steal blue or red buff out from under you when you're getting it for yourself. And if they're jungling or solo laning and they clearly need the buff, it's reasonable for them to ask for it.

But if they're half a map away and snarking at you because you grabbed some jungle because you need the buff, the heal, or the farm, they need to get over themselves. If they were jungling efficiently the buffs wouldn't be there for you to grab, and if you're having enough trouble that you need to do some jungling of your own, they're not doing a good enough job of supporting your lane, either by letting you get overwhelmed until you need a buff to stay alive, or by stealing all your farm until you need to go elsewhere to look for gold.

When you're the jungle you're a support to the rest of your team in the laning phase, and that's really all you are. Which means that if your team is in so much trouble they need to take jungle creeps, you're doing a pretty lousy job of supporting them. Which in turn means you need to shut up because you've got no reason to be snarking at them.

[super dark33]

D'aaawwww...isn't this just the cutest thing ever?

That is indeed adorable.
I'm assuming that it's the same person who did this?
My favourite part is Baron at the back being all like "HEY GUYS! WHAT'S GOING ON?"

Veiger would fit these nicely, i wonder why he isnt there
I suppose Cho'Gath is too hard to draw cutely.

[Brother Oni]

Veiger would fit these nicely, i wonder why he isnt there
I suppose Cho'Gath is too hard to draw cutely.

There's this one, and there's another one my wife is working on, but isn't ready yet.

[Winthur]

Veiger would fit these nicely, i wonder why he isnt there
I suppose Cho'Gath is too hard to draw cutely.

I got a few cutesy Veigar/Lulu pictures (from reddit) that inspired me to ship them in a fanfic, but the entire packet is 900 mb of bandwidth and one of those pics is NSFW. Not the one below, though. It's just cute. ^^

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[Kairaven]

Can someone confirm for me?

Shurelia = Shurelily = Lilypichu ?

[MCerberus]

I got a few cutesy Veigar/Lulu pictures (from reddit) that inspired me to ship them in a fanfic, but the entire packet is 900 mb of bandwidth and one of those pics is NSFW. Not the one below, though. It's just cute. ^^

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Caption: Shorties. Shorties everywhere!

[Boowells]

Can someone confirm for me?

Shurelia = Shurelily = Lilypichu ?

I know Shurelia = Shurelily, but Lilypichu is a different person. I think. Not sure.

[Math_Mage]

Shurelia and Lilypichu are different people. They often collaborate on various things, though.

[PhoeKun]

Shurelia and Lilypichu are different people. They often collaborate on various things, though.

There are two people with that voice?

[Kairaven]

There are two people with that voice?

yea, that surprise me as well.

Either way, I expect Shurelia/Fluttershy art soon...

[Mephit]

Can someone confirm for me?

Shurelia = Shurelily = Lilypichu ?

They sounds really similar, but no. Shurelily is a blog by Shurelia and Lilypichu.

[endoperez]

There are two people with that voice?

Yes. Here they're playing LoL together, with voice chat on. As 'Akemi Homura' and 'Kaname Madoka'. The voices, the nicks, the characters, but most of all, the PLAYSTYLE... Mind = blown.
http://youtu.be/I_np8ohBq54

[u-gotNOgame]

When you're the jungle you're a support to the rest of your team in the laning phase, and that's really all you are. Which means that if your team is in so much trouble they need to take jungle creeps, you're doing a pretty lousy job of supporting them. Which in turn means you need to shut up because you've got no reason to be snarking at them.

I have a bit of a problem with this mentality as someone who enjoys jungling. Yes, it is my job to apply global pressure and help secure kills and start snowballs. However it is not my fault if you first pick Karthus and run into a Morgana or Katarina that dominates you. I'll still feed you every blue buff but ganking that lane if it's warded at all is just a waste of time. If your lane is getting camped I'll come when I can but perhaps you need to play a bit defensively and ward up as to help yourself stop them from snowballing.

Depending on the jungle matchup you might have to expect more ganks coming from the enemy too. If I'm playing Mundo and we're up against an Alistar there is no way I can gank as effectively or as much as he can. My mindset is then going to be to try and keep my farm up and ward. Then I hope that my lanes don't die because it is hard for me to equalize as my ganks are comparatively weak.

That being said I don't mind if my top or bottom lanes grab doubles or if mid grabs wraiths when I am away ganking or basing and it should be respawned close to the point where I am ready to take them myself. If, however, I'm at wolves and my mid takes my wraiths I might get a bit angry because I need farm too. Sure their the "carry" but they have a lane to farm and if they've pushed it up and are looking for auxiliary sources take the opponents wraiths.

Saying a jungle is purely there to support your lanes is a gross over simplification. Someone who spends to much time ganking and doesn't convert them is going to be useless in the midgame and a jungler that spends most of his time farming and has a team that doesn't feed can be a great endgame asset. Also blaming your jungler for losing your lane is almost never the correct answer.

-UGNG

[fred dref]

If mid takes your wraiths, take the enemy wraiths. Multiplicitive returns on gold are strongest on carries but also exist on mages (CDR+AP, Deathcap+AP), so each item is worth more because of the ones before. As such, farming everything is always good.