Elemental's Excitingly Excellent Random Banter: No.CLXXVII (177)

[AtlanteanTroll]

It would be better if we lived in a world where military tech was unnecessary, but since we do it certainly doesn't hurt to be educated about it.

Perhaps. I've tried to because I am a pacifistic but I still think that's something people in general shouldn't bother with.

I would comment on your point, but instead I simply gape in awe of your choice of expletive.

When you can't swear in the traditional sense it's either be boring and not be heard or be creative and grab the attention of those around you.

I think you know my preferred route.

[Teddy]

Lets face it, most people have no clue what the differences are between a Battleship and a Battlecruiser when it comes down to it, and some of them aren't even too clear on the differences between a fighter aircraft and a bomber...

The first one is quite reasonable, given that the battlecruisers weren't especially successful (it turns out that less steel and more engine makes you both more explosive and more expensive) and thus not especially widespread. The second one is riddiculous, even though modern day jetfighters blur the line just somewhat...

How the flaming fish feces is that sad? That's wonderful. People shouldn't know that. They shouldn't have to.

First of all, it was an example of my signature humour: multilayered and extremely "in" (in this case, it's directed to us warfare geeks, but generally, the target audience is best described as "me"). Demanding that people should know as much WWII lore as me is just silly.

Secondly, my take on war is this: Yes, it would be wonderful if it wasn't and we should strive toward that, but just pretending that it doesn't exist won't solve anything. I won't go deeper into this, because that would cross the border into the political territory. Also, my thoughts on enforced ignorance (to the degree it's already applied and the degree in which people wish to apply it) apply to this as well, with those thoughts happening to be that it's stupid and dangerous.

Thirdly, knowledge is understanding, to subvert a well-known saying for my purposes. If you wish to understand WWII, if you wish to understand it's course of events and frankly, if you wish to fully understand the whole society in and behind it, as well as after it, you mustn't turn a blind eye toward the details, or even the general. There's much to be read from the difference between the Pzkpfw IV (which was a well-balanced midwar tank) and the Pzkpfw VI Tiger (which power on the battlefield only was overshadowed by how expensive it was to produce), not the least how well it reflects Hitler's mindset that any sufficiently high quality beats any amount of quantity, which in turn explains a part of why he failed so badly in the end.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Chanson de Roland is pure genius. Roland can kill hundreds of Spanish Saracens (I know, I know,just roll with it) but when they finally call for aid:
"Count Roland with pain and distress
Sounds his oliphant [horn] in great agony.
The clear blood rushes from his mouth
And in his skull the temple bursts."
Then he goes kills some more Saracens and dies. From blowing a horn.

Genius.

[AsteriskAmp]

Chanson de Roland is pure genius. Roland can kill hundreds of Spanish Saracens (I know, I know,just roll with it) but when they finally call for aid:
"Count Roland with pain and distress
Sounds his oliphant [horn] in great agony.
The clear blood rushes from his mouth
And in his skull the temple bursts."
Then he goes kills some more Saracens and dies. From blowing a horn.

Genius.

His head explodes from the pressure of a wind instrument. Of note is that wind instrument players do run this risk (on a much lesser scale though) of causing themselves brain damage due to playing.

Also, no mention of Turpin chopping massive amounts while giving blessings to the fallen ones around him? The archbishop manages to outlive the count WHILE hacking and blessing.

The book is overall epic, considering the Charlemagne ex Machina that occurs in the next battle, and the recounting of the deaths, name by name of each fallen count of the vanguard and well, Turpin.

[DraPrime]

Perhaps. I've tried to because I am a pacifistic but I still think that's something people in general shouldn't bother with.

What Teddy said. Much of history has turned around military endeavors, and so to understand much of history it helps to understand how war has worked. You can know that Phillip and his son Alexander conquered a lot of land, thus changing the fate of history in a very significant way, but if you know nothing about the Macedonian phalanx and the massive sarrissas with which they were armed, then you'll have a deficient understanding of why they were both so very successful.

In other news, I found an avatar of mine that's appropriate to the discussion of military history.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Secondly, my take on war is this: Yes, it would be wonderful if it wasn't and we should strive toward that, but just pretending that it doesn't exist won't solve anything. I won't go deeper into this, because that would cross the border into the political territory. Also, my thoughts on enforced ignorance (to the degree it's already applied and the degree in which people wish to apply it) apply to this as well, with those thoughts happening to be that it's stupid and dangerous.

I'm not saying one should deny it's happening, nay, one should inform themselves of the atrocities of man's most inhuman maneuverings, but there's still isn't much reason for someone who isn't a war historian or a raving gun-nut to know the difference between an AK-47 and a Kalashnikov* except to know that one is a far more effective tool for killing his fellows.

Thirdly, knowledge is understanding, to subvert a well-known saying for my purposes. If you wish to understand WWII, if you wish to understand it's course of events and frankly, if you wish to fully understand the whole society in and behind it, as well as after it, you mustn't turn a blind eye toward the details, or even the general. There's much to be read from the difference between the Pzkpfw IV (which was a well-balanced midwar tank) and the Pzkpfw VI Tiger (which power on the battlefield only was overshadowed by how expensive it was to produce), not the least how well it reflects Hitler's mindset that any sufficiently high quality beats any amount of quantity, which in turn explains a part of why he failed so badly in the end.

Bah, humbug. There are plenty of other things such as his general practices or the Nazi ideals that one could just as easily study to get the point, but yes, I suppose that is so. It isn't really the wars themselves that need to be studied anyway. Except for as a reminder to how horrible we all really are, it's the cause and the effects of (the) war(s).

ION, I'm reading a biography of Dwight Eisenhower for APUSH. Fun fact, General MacArthur spoke of himself in the third person.

Nutter.

* See what I did there?

[Mutant Sheep]

I didn't see any Warner Bros logo during the movie. And it really was a good movie, so I think it was atleast a decent idea.

Oh dear, poor iPod.

Interesting. And yes, it is a shame that it's not going to be making much money, because I quite liked it.

If the Avengers release wasn't so close to it, I'd love to watch it. I REALLY wanna see a Hungry Hungry Hippos movie, you see. Horror movie ad campaign and stuff, Hippopotamus Maximus is REAL *blub*, IT DESERVES TO EXIST.

I'm not saying one should deny it's happening, nay, one should inform themselves of the atrocities of man's most inhuman maneuverings, but there's still isn't much reason for someone who isn't a war historian or a raving gun-nut to know the difference between an AK-47 and a Kalashnikov* except to know that one is a far more effective tool for killing his fellows.


Bah, humbug. There are plenty of other things such as his general practices or the Nazi ideals that one could just as easily study to get the point, but yes, I suppose that is so. It isn't really the wars themselves that need to be studied anyway. Except for as a reminder to how horrible we all really are, it's the cause and the effects of (the) war(s).

ION, I'm reading a biography of Dwight Eisenhower for APUSH. Fun fact, General MacArthur spoke of himself in the third person.

Nutter.

* See what I did there?

I dunno, dead Russian corpses are pretty good at killing people.

MacArthur was a crazy man. So? Everyone who cared already learned that from Cracked.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I dunno, dead Russian corpses are pretty good at killing people.

MacArthur was a crazy man. So? Everyone who cared already learned that from Cracked.

No clue what you're referencing there, Sheep.

Cracked is Cracked. They take ... liberties ... This is a historical account. Different.

[DraPrime]

Cracked is Cracked. They take ... liberties ... This is a historical account. Different.

Agreed. Cracked does have some interesting historical articles, but they make a lot of mistakes. Painfully bad ones at times.

[Mutant Sheep]

No clue what you're referencing there, Sheep.

Cracked is Cracked. They take ... liberties ... This is a historical account. Different.

I thoguht you meant using Kalashnikov (the guy) as a weapon. Russians are great weapons! (Especially live ones in fancy uniforms. Yes I knew he was alive.)

Agreed. Cracked does have some interesting historical articles, but they make a lot of mistakes. Painfully bad ones at times.

Cracked is still hiwarious. Their mistakes can be... more than grazing, sometimes, but then you can laugh harder.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Ooooh, which areas of military history?

Like, I have general interest in basically all of it. My actual knowledge is patchy, though. Because of the ridiculous amount written on the subject, I'm pretty damn solid on the World Wars, I'm really good at Napoleon, at 18th century war, and hit and miss before that. 19th Century War is one of the areas I want to become stronger at.

Lets face it, most people have no clue what the differences are between a Battleship and a Battlecruiser when it comes down to it, and some of them aren't even too clear on the differences between a fighter aircraft and a bomber...

Or, god forbid, the difference between a Dreyse and a Pattern 1853!

[AtlanteanTroll]

I thoguht you meant using Kalashnikov (the guy) as a weapon. Russians are great weapons!

A Kalashnikov is a type of gun.

Cracked is still hiwarious. Their mistakes can be... more than grazing, sometimes, but then you can laugh harder.

Or cry yourself to sleep at night knowing there are people just that dumb out there. Whichever floats your boat.

[DraPrime]

Like, I have general interest in basically all of it. My actual knowledge is patchy, though. Because of the ridiculous amount written on the subject, I'm pretty damn solid on the World Wars, I'm really good at Napoleon, at 18th century war, and hit and miss before that. 19th Century War is one of the areas I want to become stronger at.

Antiquity gets quite interesting, simply because of the ridiculous things that were accomplished given the technology of the time. Take for example, the polybolos, a repeating ballista made by some Greek that could fire 11 big ballista bolts per minute. Given the time period, that's some crazy rapid fire.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Antiquity gets quite interesting, simply because of the ridiculous things that were accomplished given the technology of the time. Take for example, the polybolos, a repeating ballista made by some Greek that could fire 11 big ballista bolts per minute. Given the time period, that's some crazy rapid fire.

Aye! The Romans had similar things as well (they probably stole them from the Greeks)

Warfare of, say, Alexander up to the foundation of the Roman Empire fascinates me.

[DraPrime]

Aye! The Romans had similar things as well (they probably stole them from the Greeks)

Warfare of, say, Alexander up to the foundation of the Roman Empire fascinates me.

Ancient Chinese warfare also gets interesting. Not only were they technologically advanced, but their tactics were crazy. I've been reading The Art of War and the translator's introduction had some interesting anecdotes about the more unusual victories of that era. Take Sun Bin (Sun Tzu's alleged descendent) as an example. Another general, Pang Juan, had grossly underestimated Sun Bin's soldiers, and advanced with a small number of troops up the road towards Sun Bin's army. Sun Bin carved the words "Pang Juan dies here" on a tree along this road, and then set up ten thousand crossbow men along both sides of the road, and ordered them to shoot when they saw fire. Pang Juan came up the road when it was dark, saw the carving on the tree, and lit a torch to read what was on it. You can guess how that battle went from there.

[Pheehelm]

Don't forget the reason for this gross underestimation -- Sun Bin was having his soldiers light fewer and fewer fires every night Pang Juan's army advanced on them, to make him think they were deserting in mass numbers.

[Amiel]

Thirdly, knowledge is understanding, to subvert a well-known saying for my purposes.

Indeed, and the discussion thus far has been vastly illuminating.


Shall I wax lyrical on human anatomy?

[Rawhide]

This is me;

While the times are wrong (I spend more time cleaning and much less time wasting water), I'm glad that I'm not the only person whose mind shuts off the outside world and starts contemplating the nature of existence as soon as there's rushing water over their head.

[AsteriskAmp]

While the times are wrong (I spend more time cleaning and much less time wasting water), I'm glad that I'm not the only person whose mind shuts off the outside world and starts contemplating the nature of existence as soon as there's rushing water over their head.

I use sea water based shower so that I don't feel guilty for philosophising on the shower. I don't, but I use a tub, so it isn't wasted.

[DraPrime]

I'm surprised you all can think so lucidly in the shower. I'm almost always waaaaaaaay too dazed from having just woken up. My thoughts in the shower usually can be summarized as "whu...wait...that is a...yeah..."

[AsteriskAmp]

I'm surprised you all can think so lucidly in the shower. I'm almost always waaaaaaaay too dazed from having just woken up. My thoughts in the shower usually can be summarized as "whu...wait...that is a...yeah..."

That's the difference between early day and night time showers.

[DraPrime]

That's the difference between early day and night time showers.

Ah, that is true. You know, there needs to be a good way to bring literature into the shower. That would make for better shower-pondering.

[Rawhide]

Ah, that is true. You know, there needs to be a good way to bring literature into the shower. That would make for better shower-pondering.

You rang?

[AsteriskAmp]

Ah, that is true. You know, there needs to be a good way to bring literature into the shower. That would make for better shower-pondering.

There is. Either plastified books, or books with vinyl pages. Alternatively waterproof a kindle as a DIY project. I only had one book printed in vinyl because it was too damn awesome to not read it constantly, it run rather high, but was well worth it.

[DraPrime]

You rang?

*jaw drops*
*looks at bank account*

Oh Kindle case, you may be cheap, but I am very poor. When my money grows in quantity, you shall be my new best friend.

[AsteriskAmp]

*jaw drops*
*looks at bank account*

Oh Kindle case, you may be cheap, but I am very poor. When my money grows in quantity, you shall be my new best friend.

KICKSTARTER!

[Rawhide]

*jaw drops*
*looks at bank account*

Oh Kindle case, you may be cheap, but I am very poor. When my money grows in quantity, you shall be my new best friend.

There's a more expensive one that also has flotation pockets and stuff.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Ancient Chinese warfare also gets interesting. Not only were they technologically advanced, but their tactics were crazy. I've been reading The Art of War and the translator's introduction had some interesting anecdotes about the more unusual victories of that era. Take Sun Bin (Sun Tzu's alleged descendent) as an example. Another general, Pang Juan, had grossly underestimated Sun Bin's soldiers, and advanced with a small number of troops up the road towards Sun Bin's army. Sun Bin carved the words "Pang Juan dies here" on a tree along this road, and then set up ten thousand crossbow men along both sides of the road, and ordered them to shoot when they saw fire. Pang Juan came up the road when it was dark, saw the carving on the tree, and lit a torch to read what was on it. You can guess how that battle went from there.

Don't forget the reason for this gross underestimation -- Sun Bin was having his soldiers light fewer and fewer fires every night Pang Juan's army advanced on them, to make him think they were deserting in mass numbers.

Oh, I love those anecdotes and sidenotes! China sure had some damn interesting battles!

[DraPrime]

KICKSTARTER!

YES! LET'S DO THIS! I COULD ALSO USE SOME MONEY TO BUY COFFEE!

There's a more expensive one that also has flotation pockets and stuff.

If I ever had a jacuzzi in which I'd need to float my kindle, I'd get that.

Oh, I love those anecdotes and sidenotes! China sure had some damn interesting battles!

It's worth buying the Oxford University Press version of the Art of War if you like those. The whole text is interspersed with anecdotes about Chinese warfare from actual Chinese generals.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

]
It's worth buying the Oxford University Press version of the Art of War if you like those. The whole text is interspersed with anecdotes about Chinese warfare from actual Chinese generals.

I don't know what version I have, but it has quite interesting annotations. Page upon page upon page, of annotators annotating other annotators: annotaception!