Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

[Conners]

Recently, been thinking about the way different cultures interact in close proximity, and the way one is indoctrinated into another culture. Somehow, the topic went to systems of marriage. Monogamy and Polygyny specifically (those being the two most common).

Historically, how well have cultures of those types gotten along? Would you get people of monogamous culture converting to polygyny, or vice-versa? How barbaric did each consider the other for their marriage practices?

Generally, I think there's a lot of over-simplification in popular culture, when it comes to these kinds of things.

[Yora]

Depends on the type of interaction they have. In the 20th century, there are countless cases of longstanding economic relationships and military partnerships between countries that had pretty much opposing views on many social issues.

If you want the relationship to work, you just ignore such things. If the relationship is hostile, these things will constantly be used as justification to opposing each other.

[Beleriphon]

What would be the likely cultural effects if a sentient race had more vestigial extremely strong animal instincts than humans have? Stuff like going into heat, or hiding anything that is theirs that they aren't using at the moment, or stealing shiny things??

Going into heat is pretty obvious, you get a breeding season just like you do with animals that already have one. Its probably going to be an important part of the year for the sapient species. You're likely to get high numbers of adults entering the work force at the same time, and dying all around the same time.

Hiding things is simple enough, but its likely to evolve into elaborate methods. Banks actually seem likely to form early on, at least in so far as they are methods to provide security for those hiding items in them. You could also end up with a culture of paranoid nut cases but that doesn't seem quite so likely.

[Zeful]

Okay, I'm working on building a setting for 5e, and am starting with broad cosmology first, as I can define that stuff without having to worry too hard about mechanical issues. And have decided that the four main elemental planes (Earth, Wind, Burning Fire and Water) are coterminous with-- and collectively form-- the setting's Material Plane (and I know I'm one plane away from a bad "Captain Planet" pun). In doing this gives me, assuming no other planes in existence, 13 planes to work with. The elemental planes are ordered (from top, clockwise) is Water, Earth, Wind, Fire.

My question, necessitating this winding explanation is: What kind of resources would the for the four three Elemental planes (tentatively named Boatmurdered (Fire, Air, Earth), Waterworld (Fire, Air, Water), Rapture (Water, Earth, Fire), and E.D.N (Water, Earth, Air)) have? I have some ideas based on what little I know of geology and such (crystals can't form without water, right? And gems like diamond can't form without heat and pressure right?), but this question is just beyond everything I've been taught in school. Exact chemistry isn't that important as I'm not going for great scientific accuracy, I'm just curious.

[Wyntonian]

My question, necessitating this winding explanation is: What kind of resources would the for the four three Elemental planes (tentatively named Boatmurdered (Fire, Air, Earth), Waterworld (Fire, Air, Water), Rapture (Water, Earth, Fire), and E.D.N (Water, Earth, Air)) have? I have some ideas based on what little I know of geology and such (crystals can't form without water, right? And gems like diamond can't form without heat and pressure right?), but this question is just beyond everything I've been taught in school. Exact chemistry isn't that important as I'm not going for great scientific accuracy, I'm just curious.

This portion is dependent on how they intersect. Is it like three spheres that overlap at certain points, or like a FireAirWater-elemental plane?

[Zeful]

This portion is dependent on how they intersect. Is it like three spheres that overlap at certain points, or like a FireAirWater-elemental plane?

Neither and both, technically. It's not a quasi-elemental plane, those are the 2 element planes but it is made through the intersection of three of the four elemental planes. This is more like an alternate Material plane that lacks one of the elements that form the Material proper. For example Waterworld (the Fire-Air-Water plane) has no ground or material derived from Elemental plane Earth actually present in the plane outside of what manages to make it through via osmosis from the "other side" of the elemental plane of Water or Wind, it all needs to be imported from other locations.

This is the current working version of this section of the cosmology (1600x1600 pixels). The really dark purple area on the left side of the white box is Waterworld (Rapture is top E.D.N. is right, and Boatmurdered is bottom). Also, wind is Green, not Yellow.

[Yora]

How do you get to 13?

I'd look at the Inner Planes from Planescape. With positive and negative planes, they get to 18, so there should be some to work with.

[Xuc Xac]

(crystals can't form without water, right? And gems like diamond can't form without heat and pressure right?)

If you think about that second question, you'll have your answer to the first question.

[Zeful]

How do you get to 13?

I'd look at the Inner Planes from Planescape. With positive and negative planes, they get to 18, so there should be some to work with.

I haven't worked out the specifics of many of the other planes, just the elemental and material planes.

As for the number, this:

Is the current planes how I intend them to interact, this Venn Diagram has 13 sections to it, thus I have 13 planes.

If you think about that second question, you'll have your answer to the first question.

I did, it lead me to ask the question at all, because I don't have good enough knowledge to say one way or the other.

Also crystals like quartz are not like sapphire and other gems.

[Beleriphon]

I did, it lead me to ask the question at all, because I don't have good enough knowledge to say one way or the other.

Also crystals like quartz are not like sapphire and other gems.

I was going to mention this, there are plenty of crystal structures that form without heat or pressure.

[Xuc Xac]

I was going to mention this, there are plenty of crystal structures that form without heat or pressure.

And there are plenty that form without water. I thought it was strange to ask if crystals can form without water when the next question was about diamonds (which are crystals that form under conditions where the presence of water is practically impossible).

[Zeful]

And there are plenty that form without water. I thought it was strange to ask if crystals can form without water when the next question was about diamonds (which are crystals that form under conditions where the presence of water is practically impossible).

I was asking because I was thinking about gem furnaces, some of which use water in their operation, and wanted to be sure of the natural processes (seriously, is a little confirmation too much to ask for?).

But what about metals or alkalies, or things outside of my examples?

[Beleriphon]

I was asking because I was thinking about gem furnaces, some of which use water in their operation, and wanted to be sure of the natural processes (seriously, is a little confirmation too much to ask for?).

But what about metals or alkalies, or things outside of my examples?

Most metals aren't dependant on much of anything other than atomic fusion in a star. Given all elemental metals are just that, elements, large quantities form naturally in most instances (in theory you could have an asteroid made of pure uranium floating around some where). Iron doesn't require heat, or water, or really anything other than the presence of other iron atoms to form into large quantities. Heck stars eventually burn out and their cores can turn into iron in some cases; I suppose that requires heat and pressure at an atomic level but for the purposes of a plane that exists entirely without air or water they have no bearing on the creation of most metals or really any other substance unless its mostly water or composed of gases.

Depending one how far you take things a plane without any air, or by extension gas, would be one without stars or really anything since at the most basic level everything in the universe was at one point made up of hydrogen and changed via stellar fusion. I don't think you intend on taking that route so your best bet is to not worry too much about the real world implications and go with the awesome option that you think works.

In the traditional D&D sense of a plane of fire the entire plane is naturally a sea of flames. Nothing more nothing less, they just exist. There is no fuel source under them, its just fire. In a realistic example you'd need a fuel source like natural gas to burn, but that has other problems like what formed the natural gas millions of years ago, what is holding it and can I get to it? I think its best you don't over complicate something like that too much and just say the whole plane is made of pure fire in the Platonic sense. Thus prime fire a poor copy of "real" fire and requires other substances like fuel and air to work correctly.

I think you might find it more useful to read up on Platonic Realism rather than try to apply physics, geology and other physical sciences to universes that by their definition defy all known laws of those physical sciences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_realism

[Yora]

The natural processes of the universe clearly can not be applied here because chemical elements work completely differently than any "alchemical" system of elements. Not only is the pressure and heat that is needed to make iron unimaginable (the center of the sun isn't even nearly getting there), for anything beyond the first 26 elements you actually need supernova-explosions. Which in a Plane of Earth just isn't possible.

[Yora]

Is it chemically possible to have "paints" that change the color of skin cells to last for months?

I like the idea of semi-permanent warpaint, but it doesn't seem appropriate for elves to make permanent modifications to their bodies that they can't get rid of later in life.
It looks cool in dragon age, but those elves are not long living and the whole point of their tattoos is to have their pagan holy symbols in a way that can not be taken away without killing them.

[jseah]

Is it chemically possible to have "paints" that change the color of skin cells to last for months?

There is this thing we biologists use. It's called a virus. >.>

What you can do is to create a local infection with a virus that doesn't have virus DNA. It makes infected skin cells make a pigment (which can be whatever colour). If the "viral" DNA integrates into the genome, then all further skin cells will also be pigmented.
If you infect 'skin' cells near the basal layer, those generate all the above layers and infected cells will then continue to propagate the pigment expression over the long term to any that result from them.

The tattoo won't appear immediately as it takes a couple of days to get enough pigment, and after a couple of months, all the affected skin cells will have been shed, unless you hit a skin stem cell (in which case it's permanent; we can't actually find stem cells reliably, much less avoid targeting or deliberately targeting them).

[Yora]

Not that this is a practical solution for pre-bioengineering civilizations...

Also, would't the virus just spread through he whole body?

[Ksheep]

Not that this is a practical solution for pre-bioengineering civilizations...

Also, would't the virus just spread through he whole body?

Not if it doesn't replicate. He did say that there wasn't viral DNA in said virus, so in theory it wouldn't be able to make the cells produce more of the virus.

[Rakmakallan]

Not that this is a practical solution for pre-bioengineering civilizations...

Also, would't the virus just spread through he whole body?

Swordsag'd. If there is no way for the formation of new virions, the "infection" will remain localised.


New challenge for you, Playground. Many of you know of my predicament about trying to explain magic spells with contemporary natural laws, but I keep arriving at culs-de-sac. So, the question is simple: how could one produce these effects (fireballs, lightning bolts, rain of ice, meteor showers, healing etc.), without use of oversized machinery (eg pocket-sized fission and fusion), in the usual rpg time frame (1 round casting), in large enough scale, in a setting no more technologically advanced than steampunk AND perfectly explainable by science. Best answer wins a cookie.

[Aux-Ash]

Is it chemically possible to have "paints" that change the color of skin cells to last for months?

I like the idea of semi-permanent warpaint, but it doesn't seem appropriate for elves to make permanent modifications to their bodies that they can't get rid of later in life.
It looks cool in dragon age, but those elves are not long living and the whole point of their tattoos is to have their pagan holy symbols in a way that can not be taken away without killing them.

Easy. There's plenty of compounds that can penetrate the skin and dye the cells. My father got a jar of formic acid poured over his hand when he was a teenager and it was pale yellow for months. In addition, a lot of compounds that can dye vegetabilic fibers can dye human ones. Dye makers were often in the pre-industrial ages singled out by the colour of their forearms.

So it's definantely possible to create long lasting war paint.

Mind though... a lot of these compounds are poisonous or cancerogenic.

Viruses is on the other hand very much the wrong tools to use for this. Too unpredictable, too uncontrollable and tends to make the immunesystem start cleaning up.

[Ksheep]

Swordsag'd. If there is no way for the formation of new virions, the "infection" will remain localised.


New challenge for you, Playground. Many of you know of my predicament about trying to explain magic spells with contemporary natural laws, but I keep arriving at culs-de-sac. So, the question is simple: how could one produce these effects (fireballs, lightning bolts, rain of ice, meteor showers, healing etc.), without use of oversized machinery (eg pocket-sized fission and fusion), in the usual rpg time frame (1 round casting), in large enough scale, in a setting no more technologically advanced than steampunk AND perfectly explainable by science. Best answer wins a cookie.

Fireball would be easiest: Thermobaric grenade (aka air-fuel bomb). Maybe have some sort of launcher to increase it's range.

For lightning bolts, if it were already stormy you could just launch a model rocket trailing a spool of wire. Again, the trouble would be getting it to strike where you want it (unless you want it to strike yourself)… and what to do when it's not stormy. One possibility would be some sort of capacitor or possibly a modified Leyden jar that releases it's charge when thrown… but that would probably result in more of an electric grenade effect than lightning.

As for the other example magics… not sure.

[jseah]

New challenge for you, Playground. Many of you know of my predicament about trying to explain magic spells with contemporary natural laws, but I keep arriving at culs-de-sac. So, the question is simple: how could one produce these effects (fireballs, lightning bolts, rain of ice, meteor showers, healing etc.), without use of oversized machinery (eg pocket-sized fission and fusion), in the usual rpg time frame (1 round casting), in large enough scale, in a setting no more technologically advanced than steampunk AND perfectly explainable by science. Best answer wins a cookie.

Depends on what you mean by science. Science as in RL physics? Or science as in "consistent set of rules"?

Put it another way: are you asking for what ksheep did, or are you asking for a set of magic rules with the same power of explanation that RL science has?

IMO, the first is impossible. The second is.

[Rakmakallan]

Depends on what you mean by science. Science as in RL physics? Or science as in "consistent set of rules"?

Put it another way: are you asking for what ksheep did, or are you asking for a set of magic rules with the same power of explanation that RL science has?

IMO, the first is impossible. The second is.

What ksheep did. Science as exists in real life. For some extra aid you may use quantum mechanical concepts quite loosely, as in the setting all forms of energy are believed to be inter- convertible as they originate from the same universal sub-atomic particles. This would allow for a sound wave to be converted to gamma rays if given enough energy and from that to light and so on, but only as long as real-world science and practicality could account for it.

EDIT: Think of Full Metal Alchemist to some extent, only real. And more versatile. And not quite FMA. Well...

[jseah]

What ksheep did. Science as exists in real life. For some extra aid you may use quantum mechanical concepts quite loosely, as in the setting all forms of energy are believed to be inter- convertible as they originate from the same universal sub-atomic particles. This would allow for a sound wave to be converted to gamma rays if given enough energy and from that to light and so on, but only as long as real-world science and practicality could account for it.

EDIT: Think of Full Metal Alchemist to some extent, only real. And more versatile. And not quite FMA. Well...

Well, the reason why I say impossible is that even though energy (physics) is easy, chemistry is harder and biology basically impossible.

At least not without a tech level higher than we have today. You can make fireballs, lightning bolts and telekinesis with some creativity, but anything to do with transmutation and ESPECIALLY healing, is right out.

EDIT:
also, you won't be mucking around with fireballs if you could build energy converters that efficiently. You could probably make a fusion torchdrive if you can do even basic magic.

[Beleriphon]

also, you won't be mucking around with fireballs if you could build energy converters that efficiently. You could probably make a fusion torchdrive if you can do even basic magic.

If you can convert energy that easily you could convert light into gravity. With a large enough source of power one could presumably build a practical faster than light drive since all you need to do is keep converting incoming energies into outgoing energies. Its like a ramscoop that isn't limited to what it can convert info fuel.

If all energy is basically the same subatomic particles in the setting than even biology could be reshaped. I don't think we'd be dealing with a fantasy or steampunk setting. You be looking at super advanced sci-fi stuff here. If you can convert one type of energy into another then really the skies the limit as far as what you can achieve.

[jseah]

If you can convert energy that easily you could convert light into gravity. With a large enough source of power one could presumably build a practical faster than light drive since all you need to do is keep converting incoming energies into outgoing energies. Its like a ramscoop that isn't limited to what it can convert info fuel.

If all energy is basically the same subatomic particles in the setting than even biology could be reshaped. I don't think we'd be dealing with a fantasy or steampunk setting. You be looking at super advanced sci-fi stuff here. If you can convert one type of energy into another then really the skies the limit as far as what you can achieve.

The difference between a magic rocket (basically a big firework) and a healing spell is one of complexity.
A rocket is simple, you burn things to make hot gas come out. Rocket goes other way.

A healing spell means knowing what cells are, what the tissue you are trying to repair looks like, knowing how to differentiate between self and not-self, knowing how to make whatever you put in play nice with the rest of the body and not get attacked by the immune system.
This, WE still haven't figured out. You're not going to be able to do this at a steampunk level of technology.


Also FTL drives won't be a matter of building bigger reactionless drives. You actually need to change some physics to do that.

[awa]

not to mention stuff like enlarge person wich gives you mass from nothing or anything to do with calling outsiders and other planes in general

[Rakmakallan]

I think I see everyone's point. It is true however that the setting is very restrictive on some things (no planes, no deities, no divinations, no supernatural elements) and technological advancement is quite uneven, to the point of primitive hordes fighting alongside exoskeleton armours. The issue about conversion of energy is just a quasi-scientific theory formulated by ancient Analysts (aka casters), but one that has been widely debunked in recent years. The fact that characters cannot tear the setting apart by having absolute freedom in conversion of energies is ensured through the balance of the casting system. So, a character with a maxed out Analysis score and even some additional bonuses from being a Loreweaver (Analysts that convert sound), could, without mortal peril to themselves, convert his tune into radiation enough to kill one person or give radiation poisoning to a few. Such individuals are of course one in a thousand in the setting, but the same effect could be achieved by a larger number of weaker Analysts.

Biology is another matter of course, and entirely problematic. Even though I had initially removed any capability of healing (frying another person's synapses or boiling their blood is still entirely possible), I have considered allowing for some highly advanced Analysts to put their skill to use with medicine, more along the lines of sped-up recoveries, countering poisons and toxins, mending broken bones by momentary applications of calcium carbonate and triggering rejuvenation of tissue, all however with a huge risk margin of killing the patient, triggering carcinogenesis, or leaving them permanently crippled. Of course, such applications would be bordering on sci-fi. Then again, the setting covers a period of over 10 thousand years, starting from Hellenistic civilization levels and without being interrupted by Dark Ages, slowly rising to the current technology and expected to achieve even terraforming within the next few centuries.

EDIT: Enlarge person and other blatant cancellations of physical laws are instantly crossed out. As I said, we're looking upon more of a FMA/Avatar kind of casting. Condensing moisture into water droplets, freezing and shaping into icicles and skewering people, all in one casting.

[Conners]

Would it be possible to energize the good microbes which work towards repairing the body? Perhaps energize the organs in charge of producing those kinds of things, or the heart so that you keep producing blood and don't bleed-out?

Does any of that seem possible?

[Yora]

What do you mean by energize? Probably not just zapping them?