Grrl Power

[Traab]

I'm curious about this. Has this ever been actually stated, or is it being treated like fact simply because she's always used it that way?

I'm not saying it's never stated, mind you, just that I don't remember it ever happening.

Yeah, that was my backup plan, have her put a shield around vehemence (and maxima if she has to) so maxima can go full power. Its never really come up. Yes, so far she has always been inside her own shields, thats because she doesnt have any magical durability bonuses, so if a shield is going up, chances are she needs to be protected too. That being said, there IS a good chance it does work that way. After all, when maxima had her private test of her shield, she didnt even ASK if sydney could project the field around the lump of steel , just bundled her up and told her to try to survive.

On a related note, did that explosion do any damage to her tentacle? Because so far we have seen her shield hasnt reached a limit on what it can take, and im curious as to the limits of her other stuff. Like, how strong is that tentacle? I know she used it to slingshot anvil, but she was already falling so pulling her down faster wouldnt have been that tricky. It looks like it may be limited by her own strength as I think vehemence and math both used it against her, but im not sure. We really need a training arc after this battle ends, so we can get a handle on her powers, and maybe even some more detail on the rest of the cast.

[Calemyr]

I seem to recall the author put it in one of those text boxes he does under the issues of the comic. Or was it his twitter account?

Well, I have a powerful distaste for Twitter and avoid anything to do with it, so I guess I'm blinded there. Honestly, however, I don't care. If it's not in the comic or the commentary, it's not canon to my estimation. Useful information, perhaps, and insight into creator intention, but not canon. Creator intent changes over time, ideas are scrapped and adopted and reworked constantly until it all fits together. It's only when the pen hits the paper (metaphorically speaking) that canon is established.

[Steckie]

I'm curious about this. Has this ever been actually stated, or is it being treated like fact simply because she's always used it that way?

I'm not saying it's never stated, mind you, just that I don't remember it ever happening.

It has in fact been stated in this comic. Check out the second, third, fourth and seventh panel and read the author's comment below that explains it a bit further. Sydney's shield being airtight is completely canon.

As for today's comic: i wonder Vehemence will be able to regrow that arm? He was able to conjure up a pair of pants, so maybe all his energy is able to create an arm as well? And Max blasting his arm off was again a form of violence that should empower him.
The question is if the power he gets from the violence is equal or more than the power needed to undo the damage. If that is the case they'll need another solution than just blasting pieces off his body.

[Calemyr]

It has in fact been stated in this comic. Check out the second, third, fourth and seventh panel and read the author's comment below that explains it a bit further. Sydney's shield being airtight is completely canon.

As for today's comic: i wonder Vehemence will be able to regrow that arm? He was able to conjure up a pair of pants, so maybe all his energy is able to create an arm as well? And Max blasting his arm off was again a form of violence that should empower him.
The question is if the power he gets from the violence is equal or more than the power needed to undo the damage. If that is the case they'll need another solution than just blasting pieces off his body.

Yes, the airtight shield is canon (and an instance where creator intent changed from initial stance), but that's not the aspect of the shield I was talking about. Is it ever explicitly stated (commentary or comic) that Sydney must be inside the shield when it is in place? It allows for much more creative application without that restriction and Halo is all about creative application.

As for today: If Vehemence could regenerate, I'd have expected him to restore his eye. So far, he has not. Still, it's possible. And Maxima's gamble here is that diminishing returns will kick in - that there's a point where Maxima can kick up the damage higher than Vehemence can profit from it. For instance, he's pretty much charcoal right now. He might have gotten some energy out of the attack, but he's also going to have to burn an absurd amount of energy to... well... un-burn himself, if he even is capable of that.

I do like the fact that Little Miss Sociopath Halo is completely disturbed not just by Maxima's brutal attack, but also by her own active role in it. She recognizes that it was horrible and that she was a part of it. Just one of those nice little moments where we see that she's a bit more well adjusted than comedy suggests.

[Nettlekid]

I'm kind of disappointed that this looks like it'll end with "punch him harder" rather than anything clever. Punch the guy who gets stronger by being punched. Why bother with the setup if it's going to end with Maxima young over 9000 and taking him out like normal? I'm still hoping for a twist, but we've been doing this for ages already and I don't really want it to drag on longer.

That being said, I really wished they'd grab For Whom The Death Tolls and used his Nemesis to beat Vehemence.

[Calemyr]

I'm kind of disappointed that this looks like it'll end with "punch him harder" rather than anything clever. Punch the guy who gets stronger by being punched. Why bother with the setup if it's going to end with Maxima young over 9000 and taking him out like normal? I'm still hoping for a twist, but we've been doing this for ages already and I don't really want it to drag on longer.

That being said, I really wished they'd grab For Whom The Death Tolls and used his Nemesis to beat Vehemence.

It could work, if the next couple pages are handled right. I don't know if that's the way this is likely to go, however. Big V is looking for his upper limits, and Maxima just proved she's willing to help him find them. If he regenerates, adopts a different form that isn't just "more power", or starts using his vehemic energy for something other than modesty and punching harder, this would give Maxima both a chance to showcase how outrageously powerful she is and yet how limited she is at the same time. The catch is that this would prolong the fight for yet another round, and I think it's gone on too long already.

[Metahuman1]

In fairness, the fight feels longer then it should because we get 2 pages a week, with several days between them. If this was playing out in an on the shelf comic book or a trade paper back, it would just feel like a good action scene.

[tomandtish]

Note: I'm defining fight start as when one person makes contact 9whether physically or by power) with another. Your milage may vary.

Our heroes' fight with Vehemence starts in comic 252 (technically by Sydney), so as of 271 that is 20 comics. In terms of pages, yeah that's not that long.

Of course, the whole evening of fight started back in comic 202 when Anvil got punched, and that was 70 pages ago. It was also 8 months ago RL.

Of course we are also 267 comics and 4 years and change into a flashback so....

Edit: Into day one of the flashback, for that matter.

[lord_khaine]

I will second the notion of really, really hoping this isnt the end of Vehemence, because that would mean that despite his rather brilliant way of boosting himself up to a previous unhead level of power then the way he was taken down were though the boring DBZ way of overpowering him in his strongest form.

[Ibrinar]

Well I don't expect it to be, that would make giving him his power absorbing power and a powerup kinda pointless and just establish that Maxima is very powerful, which we already know. And I guess it would establish that serious permanent injuries or death is something that actually happens in the comic, but that would still be a waste of a fun enemy imo.

[Tono]

I really really want to the arm to hit maxima as it is regrowing as sort of a surprise attack. Like, really really want.

[tyckspoon]

Yes, the airtight shield is canon (and an instance where creator intent changed from initial stance), but that's not the aspect of the shield I was talking about. Is it ever explicitly stated (commentary or comic) that Sydney must be inside the shield when it is in place? It allows for much more creative application without that restriction and Halo is all about creative application.

I don't know if it's explicitly stated, but it's most congruent with the way we know Sydney's orbs work - to wit, so far all of the powers where we know the point of origin come from the orb, and Sydney has to be holding the orb to make it active. That suggests that at least her hand has to be in the shield with the orb, and while that does still leave possibilities for interesting shield shaping and projection (using the shield as a guide tunnel for the PPO orb to limit uncontrolled firing?), it would significantly limit her chances to use it situations like this where having her hand exposed would still be too dangerous. Maybe she'll get an upgrade to or figure out how to make it create multiple internal layers that would let something like that work, but she doesn't seem to believe that's a possibility right now.

[Rakaydos]

On the other hand, one of the objections can be removed-

Shield + Flight Orb + Scuba Tank = stay out of reach and suffocate them.

[Traab]

Yes, the airtight shield is canon (and an instance where creator intent changed from initial stance), but that's not the aspect of the shield I was talking about. Is it ever explicitly stated (commentary or comic) that Sydney must be inside the shield when it is in place? It allows for much more creative application without that restriction and Halo is all about creative application.

As for today: If Vehemence could regenerate, I'd have expected him to restore his eye. So far, he has not. Still, it's possible. And Maxima's gamble here is that diminishing returns will kick in - that there's a point where Maxima can kick up the damage higher than Vehemence can profit from it. For instance, he's pretty much charcoal right now. He might have gotten some energy out of the attack, but he's also going to have to burn an absurd amount of energy to... well... un-burn himself, if he even is capable of that.

I do like the fact that Little Miss Sociopath Halo is completely disturbed not just by Maxima's brutal attack, but also by her own active role in it. She recognizes that it was horrible and that she was a part of it. Just one of those nice little moments where we see that she's a bit more well adjusted than comedy suggests.

Its probable that he can, because otherwise he would have taken the fight a hell of a lot more seriously. Think about it, his powers are fueled by violence, that means until he gets powered up, he is vulnerable to being badly wounded. Heck, even in this fight alone he lost an eye and several teeth before he reached a level of power he felt sufficient to win with. Having to be near combat to power up is dangerous as heck. That being said, I wouldnt be surprised if regeneration is expensive in terms of power burn. So he would likely want to wait till the fight is over before regenerating his teeth and eye. But losing an arm is a bigger problem. if he CAN regen an arm, I expect it to happen soon.

On an unrelated note, I just read the cast page and geeze dabbler is like the most munchkined D&D character ever. "Im a powerful mage, swordsman, artificer, psionic who has the succubus, shapeshifter and alien templates stacked and used all these TOTALLY LEGIT loopholes to get rid of any disadvantages."

[lord_khaine]

On the other hand, one of the objections can be removed-

Shield + Flight Orb + Scuba Tank = stay out of reach and suffocate them.

This strategy is going to be defeated by something as simple as a pistol, a throwing knife or a really long pointed stick...

[Traab]

This strategy is going to be defeated by something as simple as a pistol, a throwing knife or a really long pointed stick...

Especially since an airtight shield that would choke you out relatively fast enough would be so tiny she couldnt avoid her target. Large enough to dodge, like when she protected the reporters, and the target would have an hour to plan an escape. Get her murder on proper by forming an unbreakable shield halfway through the target. Or less murder and more, hole in the wall. Got a locked door you cant punch down? Form a force field that passes through the door and pull the severed metal out. Similar to those stories where a guy weaponizes his ability to open portals wherever he wants.

Or, better choke out, USE THE VIOLATORB!
1)Wrap tentacle around targets neck,
2)choke,
3)profit.

[Ravenlord]

Or just, you know, use the violatorb as a blunt knife and stab/punch through people with it.

It was strong enough to not get broken by a powered-up Vehemence. I'm pretty sure that's strong enough to perforate people!

[Egneil]

Especially since an airtight shield that would choke you out relatively fast enough would be so tiny she couldnt avoid her target. Large enough to dodge, like when she protected the reporters, and the target would have an hour to plan an escape. Get her murder on proper by forming an unbreakable shield halfway through the target. Or less murder and more, hole in the wall. Got a locked door you cant punch down? Form a force field that passes through the door and pull the severed metal out. Similar to those stories where a guy weaponizes his ability to open portals wherever he wants.

Or, better choke out, USE THE VIOLATORB!
1)Wrap tentacle around targets neck,
2)choke,
3)profit.

But doesn't her shield resize itself to prevent portal-cuts? I know I read something on that from the commentaries before, this page I think.

[Traab]

But doesn't her shield resize itself to prevent portal-cuts? I know I read something on that from the commentaries before, this page I think.

Ah, but,

That may be a yet undiscovered option though.

It may automatically avoid doing that, that doesnt mean you cant MAKE it do that. Like when captain picard or whoever overrides safety protocols to do something crazy and dangerous. Normally the computer wouldnt allow it, but he can force it to happen.

[Egneil]

Ah, but, It may automatically avoid doing that, that doesnt mean you cant MAKE it do that. Like when captain picard or whoever overrides safety protocols to do something crazy and dangerous. Normally the computer wouldnt allow it, but he can force it to happen.

True enough, but I doubt that Sydney would be able to do it in this fight. Although it would be pretty cool if she could do it eventually.

[lord_khaine]

Or, better choke out, USE THE VIOLATORB!
1)Wrap tentacle around targets neck,
2)choke,
3)profit.

But if they are weaker than the tentacle you dont need 2), because at that point you have already caught the target. And if they are stronger 1) will fail because they can simply unwrap themselves again.

It was strong enough to not get broken by a powered-up Vehemence. I'm pretty sure that's strong enough to perforate people!

It was strong enough to avoid getting broken when a powered up Vehemence unwrapped himself from it, he newer actively tried attacking it after having tested Sidney's shield.

It may automatically avoid doing that, that doesnt mean you cant MAKE it do that. Like when captain picard or whoever overrides safety protocols to do something crazy and dangerous. Normally the computer wouldnt allow it, but he can force it to happen.

Safety protocols are normally there for a reason, it could just as well be avoiding doing that because it would lead to catastrophic shield failure and orb explosion..

[Traab]

But if they are weaker than the tentacle you dont need 2), because at that point you have already caught the target. And if they are stronger 1) will fail because they can simply unwrap themselves again.



It was strong enough to avoid getting broken when a powered up Vehemence unwrapped himself from it, he newer actively tried attacking it after having tested Sidney's shield.



Safety protocols are normally there for a reason, it could just as well be avoiding doing that because it would lead to catastrophic shield failure and orb explosion..

Or it could be there to avoid accidentally cutting people and things in half. Like phasers starting out automatically on stun setting and you have to manually ramp them up to lethal levels. The standard shield is meant to protect, you dont protect by decapitating someone when you accidentally form the shield through them. However, that doesnt mean you cant consciously choose to do so. And the fact that the possibility was alluded to in the author notes means he is at least considering it. Probably contemplating the ramifications of having the ability to slice through anything versus being purely defensive and how that might effect the overall story. I mean lets face it, sydney is already insanely powerful, and we have yet to establish ANY upper limit on her abilities. Her shield has been somewhat tested, but she has yet to feel any strain like it might not survive or is at its limit. She has flown but hit 400 mph without realizing it, so again, we dont know how fast she can travel. Aside from slicing through a tank "like butta" we dont know the destructive potential of her sydneyhama orb. So on and so forth. I kind of want this battle to be over so we can take the time to train her and find out her limits, the potential applications of her abilities, stuff like that.

[Metahuman1]

Didn't the shield start straining and cracking when V decked it a few pages back?

[Douglas]

Didn't the shield start straining and cracking when V decked it a few pages back?

You mean here? That's not cracking, that's the pattern that shows up when the shield blocks something - even something as insignificant as a lightly tossed piece of foam packaging.

[Traab]

You mean here? That's not cracking, that's the pattern that shows up when the shield blocks something - even something as insignificant as a lightly tossed piece of foam packaging.

And in this one she says while she can tell the shield is being hit, she cant feel any increase in strain no matter how hard maxima was punching. Admittedly she wasnt punching THAT hard considering the lack of shockwaves, but once again, thats something to be tested later. Safer than her explosions at least, get some ear plugs, reduce her speed pool into strength and armor, (if that would effect her punching ability, if not, pure strength) and slug that shield as hard as she can and see if that breaks it.

[Qwertystop]

We don't actually know if she would be able to feel any increase in strain - it's not like it's connected to her directly. Maxima might have been just a shade under the breaking point for all we know.

[Traab]

We don't actually know if she would be able to feel any increase in strain - it's not like it's connected to her directly. Maxima might have been just a shade under the breaking point for all we know.

She feels it enough to know the shield is being hit, you may be right, but im working under the assumption that she would be able to tell. A few other interesting thoughts. She can make the shield quite large, as evidenced by protecting the news crews and non maxima heroes from the big blast. One of the biggest problems of super fights is collateral damage and stopping the escape. We also know that harem cant teleport through her shield, which means if she can make the shield large enough there is room for the rest of the team to fight, while protecting innocents, and preventing an easy escape. Once again, we dont know for sure what she can block with that shield, but its still an idea worth considering. The downside is she is vulnerable to attack with the bad guys inside her shield. She isnt helpless, she has her molstorb and can mentally control her other orbs to intercept attacks, but still, its a risk. Might be situationally useful.

Speaking of the violatorb, in this comic she says she was able to lift her car with it. That implies it isnt directly connected to her own strength. Once again we dont know the limits, but this pushes it into the superhuman range, even if a lower level of it. She also admits to being capable of hurling a person through a building with it. Or at least into one.

*EDIT* Gol durn it, in todays comic we learn,

Spoiler

Show

he not only regens, he regens BETTER than before. Im still waiting for the big finish, because honestly, going by the authors note, maxima needs to get hammered badly at least briefly until a solution pops up.

[Metahuman1]

That Tactic could work. It'd have to be a team work effort, you'd want Maxima and maybe Achilles, if your feeling REALLY paranoid one of Harem's dopple gangers and Math or Anvil working with to to cover her while she does it. Shield her, move her clear of the attacks, ext.

[Traab]

That Tactic could work. It'd have to be a team work effort, you'd want Maxima and maybe Achilles, if your feeling REALLY paranoid one of Harem's dopple gangers and Math or Anvil working with to to cover her while she does it. Shield her, move her clear of the attacks, ext.

Yeah, its certainly not a fix all tactic, but it could be useful at various times. So, I have a new prediction that seems to be following along with some trends. Maxima is going to get her ass beat hard. She will call on sydney to use her ppo to hammer vehemence. She will be really reluctant but end up convinced and this super beam weapon of hers will slice through his new upgrade and possibly cause what looks like lethal damage. He will then heal and escape when they turn away from him, knowing he cant fight them as he is right now. The reason i think this is likely is because so far we seem to be getting some limitless looking potential for her shield ability, and from how she described her ppo use as like touching a star, we can assume its insanely powerful. The other option is he is BARELY able to tank that hit with his new upgraded self, and much like when he was launched by maxima, he will be sent flying and make his escape before anyone can finish him off.

The OTHER other option is, one of the mystery orbs turns into an energy drainer. She gets nabbed by vehemence somehow, and when she flails around and grabs an orb its one of the unknown orbs. Skin to skin contact lets her drain the vehemic energy out of him super fast, making taking him down easier. Sort of like when The Periwinkle Butt-Sniffer drained Anvil. This one has potential because it can let them beat vehemence, while still leaving him a massive threat for the future like the author wants. After all, now he knows the only way they can stop him, so all he has to do is avoid letting sydney touch him while using the orb. Considering how fast and strong he gets, that would make getting her safely in arms reach far more challenging in future encounters, adding a lot of strategy to future fights beyond "HIT HIM HARDER DANGIT!"

[BannedInSchool]

Big V could just beat Max into the ground, Sydney could bubble around Max, and V could grumble that the fun's over then if she's going to hide in the bubble and walk off into the sunset whistling and the crew can do nothing about it.