General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Mewtarthio]

Is it me, or humanity sins table in Vampire is a bit... strange? I know that murder is bad, but in WoD it is part of everyday life and no party can ever spend a night without killing a dozen of enemies. Or is that the point?

Your vampires are slaughtering people by the dozens every night? How are they still alive-ish?

[Turalisj]

Your vampires are slaughtering people by the dozens every night? How are they still alive-ish?

My guess?

Poor Storyteller management.

[Hyena]

Well, in my country WoD is usually played as filled with action, murder and guns. Werewolves are usually involved. Essentially, DnD with vampires.
I guess it's not the way it's usually played, eh?

[The Glyphstone]

Nope, not at all...that's pretty much the exact opposite of how it's designed to be played, hence why you find the Humanity chart so confusing.

See if you can track down a copy of the April Fool's free supplement Dudes of Legend. It's utterly ridiculous, and quite hilarious, and meant to support the Superheroes With Fangs style of play.

[Morty]

Well, it depends on which Vampire we're talking about. The oWoD did lend itself to this style of play somewhat more easily. It's still not what it was designed for, though.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, it depends on which Vampire we're talking about. The oWoD did lend itself to this style of play somewhat more easily. It's still not what it was designed for, though.

I'm assuming he means NWoD because werewolves are regularly included. Mixing game lines in OWoD was at best madness and worst impossible.

[Hyena]

Oh, no-no, not at all. OWoD is both far more popular and known here.
So, no killing people every day. Werid.

Mixing game lines in OWoD was at best madness and worst impossible.

We ALSO have strange, almost supernatural, ability to see no contradictions between different setting lines at all. Except Demons. Nobody knows how to crossover Demons.

[The Glyphstone]

Oh, no-no, not at all. OWoD is both far more popular and known here.
So, no killing people every day. Werid.


We ALSO have strange, almost supernatural, ability to see no contradictions between different setting lines at all. Except Demons. Nobody knows how to crossover Demons.

I'm not talking about the settings, I mean the actual rules. Even Masquerade and Apocalypse were the next best thing to incompatible without heavy work on the part of the Storyteller. And even then, it ended up clunky - there's a reason every gameline had a section at the back with 'if you use Other Splat Y as NPCs, treat them as This Splat X with Powers A, B, and C'. If you can make Kindred and Garou merge seamlessly, then you truly are blessed with knowledge beyond the borders of mortal comprehension.

[Hullu_Iivana]

Nope, not at all...that's pretty much the exact opposite of how it's designed to be played, hence why you find the Humanity chart so confusing.

See if you can track down a copy of the April Fool's free supplement Dudes of Legend. It's utterly ridiculous, and quite hilarious, and meant to support the Superheroes With Fangs style of play.

It's exact opposite of how it's supposed to be played... and pretty much the usual style around here. I don't think I've ever been at WoD game as player that didn't contain heavy doses murderhoboing and very bad humour; pretty much like Dudes of Legend but with more pretentious dialog, corny plots and less magical trenchcoats. ^^

[The Glyphstone]

It's exact opposite of how it's supposed to be played... and pretty much the usual style around here. I don't think I've ever been at WoD game as player that didn't contain heavy dose murderhoboing and very bad humour; pretty much like Dudes of Legend but with more pretentious dialog, corny plots and less magical trenchcoats. ^^

I never said it was a bad was to play. I play with traditionalists, but DoL is still my favorite 'splatbook;.

[Hullu_Iivana]

I never said it was a bad was to play. I play with traditionalists, but DoL is still my favorite 'splatbook;.

It's pretty glorious book When we played Promethean some time ago, one scene was almost directly like something from DoL. When you've completely naked warrior-Promethean who looks like Wolverine crossing barbed fence by jumping dozens of meters while heavily wounded, just to regenerate and beat the crap out of soldiers guarding the compound to get his friends in, you know the game must be going right Just needed You Might As Well Jump and Bare Thy Chest To Conquer All hacks for the character. ^^

[Morty]

I'm assuming he means NWoD because werewolves are regularly included. Mixing game lines in OWoD was at best madness and worst impossible.

That it was, but oWoD books include rules for other supernaturals. Vampire: the Masquerade book has stats for Lupines, mages and faeries.

[The Glyphstone]

That it was, but oWoD books include rules for other supernaturals. Vampire: the Masquerade book has stats for Lupines, mages and faeries.

Which were, like I'd said above, basically "a [Splat] is a Vampire with Disciplines X, Y, and Z, a blood pool he can spend for A, B, and C, and some other special rules." They were hamfisted translations for the most part, though better than trying to mesh the actual rules.

[WitchSlayer]

So I made my first Mummy character. He's fearless, can reflexively counter any mage spell cast at him, can catch bullets, see through the dark with the light of REASON and be real good at healin' people. A starting level character. A STARTING LEVEL CHARACTER

[Morty]

Which were, like I'd said above, basically "a [Splat] is a Vampire with Disciplines X, Y, and Z, a blood pool he can spend for A, B, and C, and some other special rules." They were hamfisted translations for the most part, though better than trying to mesh the actual rules.

That's my point. They're crude, but they can be used in a game, unlike actual rules from other gamelines.

So I made my first Mummy character. He's fearless, can reflexively counter any mage spell cast at him, can catch bullets, see through the dark with the light of REASON and be real good at healin' people. A starting level character. A STARTING LEVEL CHARACTER

Isn't it sort of the point of Mummy? To start out really powerful and grow weaker over time.

[WitchSlayer]

Isn't it sort of the point of Mummy? To start out really powerful and grow weaker over time.

He will never not be able to do this. He just won't be able to boost his stats as high or do it quite as frequently. Except catch bullets, he can do that all the time.

[Boci]

If you can make Kindred and Garou merge seamlessly, then you truly are blessed with knowledge beyond the borders of mortal comprehension.

What sort of mechanical problem do you encounter when you try to do this?

[CN the Logos]

I hope you don't mind my laughing (and nodding in sympathy) at this hilarious commentary on the human condition. It's nothing personal, just an observation on someone, to quote the sample in a Kill Hannah instrumental, "noting the compulsiveness of {their} own behavior as it enters {consciousness}...you can't help yourself, realize that {others} can't help themselves". There's definitely a WOD-tastic lesson in that.

Not at all. If someone at least finds my folly amusing or instructive, it means I was retroactively doing something productive with my time.

...Not sure how I feel about that. Part of me thinks it sounds pretty neat, but another part of me is concerned that it'll become somewhat... metaplot-ty, I guess? I don't know, something just doesn't sit right with me.

I know, it sits oddly with me too. Mostly because this is the only bit of metaplot I've ever encountered in a White Wolf book that I was actually interested in seeing a follow up to, and they're actually following up on it. Seriously, Voice of the Angel was awesome. I read that and was ready for an entire gameline combining the best elements of the X-Files and Neon Genesis Evangelion. Then I realized it was that game with the vampires and werewolves and such and was a bit disappointed.

Pure speculation: The "And they're all going to Hell" line is how they're going to reconcile this line with Inferno's borderline cosmic horror take on demons. Playable demons will be the ones that still have (or have gained) a Morality-equivalent. When they finally give up on it, they become embodiments of EVIL as described in Hunter and Inferno. If I'm on the right track, they might put more emphasis on actively maintaining the Morality stat (having to consciously do things to keep it from degenerating, as opposed to just not doing things that would cause it to fall). Thus the grim inevitability of that statement.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

I know, it sits oddly with me too. Mostly because this is the only bit of metaplot I've ever encountered in a White Wolf book that I was actually interested in seeing a follow up to, and they're actually following up on it. Seriously, Voice of the Angel was awesome. I read that and was ready for an entire gameline combining the best elements of the X-Files and Neon Genesis Evangelion. Then I realized it was that game with the vampires and werewolves and such and was a bit disappointed.

I think I need to find this "Voice of the Angel" thing of which you speak. Pray tell, what is it?

Pure speculation: The "And they're all going to Hell" line is how they're going to reconcile this line with Inferno's borderline cosmic horror take on demons. Playable demons will be the ones that still have (or have gained) a Morality-equivalent. When they finally give up on it, they become embodiments of EVIL as described in Hunter and Inferno. If I'm on the right track, they might put more emphasis on actively maintaining the Morality stat (having to consciously do things to keep it from degenerating, as opposed to just not doing things that would cause it to fall). Thus the grim inevitability of that statement.

Now that would be interesting to see. It seems plausible, considering what they did with mummies as opposed to the other splats, but I guess we'll have to wait and see to be sure.

[Morty]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Testament of Marco Singe becoming canon... at least as canon as anything can be in the nWoD. It sounds more defined than the other splats' backstories, which are ambiguous and known on the "the guy who has been around longer than I have told me that" basis even in the case of Mage and Werewolf.

[CN the Logos]

I think I need to find this "Voice of the Angel" thing of which you speak. Pray tell, what is it?

It's one of the introductory stories in chapter one of the World of Darkness core book. Starts on the bottom of page 26 and goes to page 31.

Now that would be interesting to see. It seems plausible, considering what they did with mummies as opposed to the other splats, but I guess we'll have to wait and see to be sure.

I have no idea what they did with Mummy unless you mean the "start off powerful and become weaker" thing, so if that isn't what you mean you'll have to clarify. Can't say I'm terribly enthused about it, since that's going to make it impossible to refluff anything and it's apparently at a far higher level than the WoD games I like most, but we'll probably end up getting two copies anyway to complete our collections.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Testament of Marco Singe becoming canon... at least as canon as anything can be in the nWoD. It sounds more defined than the other splats' backstories, which are ambiguous and known on the "the guy who has been around longer than I have told me that" basis even in the case of Mage and Werewolf.

The God-Machine already made a reappearance in Promethean, so it's a bit late to feel uneasy about it now. That said, the qashmalim are totally willing to lie or obfuscate the truth if doing so would fulfill their missions, so the story might not be the whole truth, or might contain any number of lies. Of course, it being an RPG, you can totally refluff the thing. Or even just use old Demon's fluff with the new rules if you like; they're supposed to be releasing a conversion guide for the two systems right before new Demon comes out.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

It's one of the introductory stories in chapter one of the World of Darkness core book. Starts on the bottom of page 26 and goes to page 31.

Nuts, that's what I was afraid of. I was hoping it was a stand-alone novel they had released at some point in the past, like that recent vampire one. What was it, the Silent Knife or something like that?

I have no idea what they did with Mummy unless you mean the "start off powerful and become weaker" thing, so if that isn't what you mean you'll have to clarify. Can't say I'm terribly enthused about it, since that's going to make it impossible to refluff anything and it's apparently at a far higher level than the WoD games I like most, but we'll probably end up getting two copies anyway to complete our collections.

That is exactly what I mean. You don't start at full(ish) power and begin weakening in any of the other splats, which means it's a new thing they're trying out. So, hopefully they'll be willing to try something new and exciting with Demon as well.

[Morty]

Or even just use old Demon's fluff with the new rules if you like; they're supposed to be releasing a conversion guide for the two systems right before new Demon comes out.

That would be more helpful if I'd ever seen an oWoD demon book in my life.

[Lord_Gareth]

That would be more helpful if I'd ever seen an oWoD demon book in my life.

Shame, it was the only oWoD book with well-written fluff that was legitimately interesting, engaging, and dramatic.

Mechanics were still sins against nature of course but that's oWoD for you.

[Leliel]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Testament of Marco Singe becoming canon... at least as canon as anything can be in the nWoD. It sounds more defined than the other splats' backstories, which are ambiguous and known on the "the guy who has been around longer than I have told me that" basis even in the case of Mage and Werewolf.

No, it's a canon.

The Strix Chronicles will also be a canon.

Optional metaplot and background, in other words. The designers have explicitly stated this.

[Morty]

Shame, it was the only oWoD book with well-written fluff that was legitimately interesting, engaging, and dramatic.

Mechanics were still sins against nature of course but that's oWoD for you.

Perhaps. From what I know of it, it seems too high-powered for my taste, much like a lot of the oWoD.

No, it's a canon.

The Strix Chronicles will also be a canon.

Optional metaplot and background, in other words. The designers have explicitly stated this.

That's true. I know perfectly well how canon works in the nWoD, which is why I'm not actually worried. Just unsure how to approach it.

[SiuiS]

Is it me, or humanity sins table in Vampire is a bit... strange? I know that murder is bad, but in WoD it is part of everyday life and no party can ever spend a night without killing a dozen of enemies. Or is that the point?

Most world of darkness games in the new setting are about horror and psychological stuff, as opposed to fights. Monsters are specifically scary strong so you freak out when they come for you; you aren't suppose to go toe-to-toe with a critter, you're suppose to eventually lure it into a trap, lean the words to the ancient Sumerian curse that binds it, and find out too late that one I you must sacrifice your body to contain the creature for another few centuries.

Werewolf gets a lot more violent, and is a pretty interesting line Mage is less violent, because pure mate violence turns into rocket tag around gnosis 2. Changeling could be action-adventure-y at a lower level with longer downtimes than werewolf. Vampire and promethean I know nothing about.

Mummy sounds like the bees knees and that's only from hearing about their Cult merit.

Well, in my country WoD is usually played as filled with action, murder and guns. Werewolves are usually involved. Essentially, DnD with vampires.
I guess it's not the way it's usually played, eh?

Nope!

So I made my first Mummy character. He's fearless, can reflexively counter any mage spell cast at him, can catch bullets, see through the dark with the light of REASON and be real good at healin' people. A starting level character. A STARTING LEVEL CHARACTER

I heard that as long as some mortal somewhere is willing to chant over a corpse, you'll never be truly dead. I commented on wanting to end up in a Mage game where our plan to survive was "throw a mummy at an ochema", an ochema being an avatar of an exarch, a being for whom reality is a side effect of their dictatorship. My STs response was "Toe to toe, straight from the crypt, my money's on the mummy. And I say that with awe and fear."

[Turalisj]

Alright, think I'm gonna write up a starting-character Mummy and share him a bit here. Who'd like to see my attempt at making a character!

(I've play nWoD maybe 4-5 times before, Mummy is my first real supernatural splat)

[Mewtarthio]

I heard that as long as some mortal somewhere is willing to chant over a corpse, you'll never be truly dead.

Mummies resurrect on their own anyway. Mortals just help them do it faster. Assuming, of course, that they need the help at all; the shortest listed time interval from "death" to resurrection is "as soon as your killer's guard is down."* There's also an Affinity which makes it so that you always have a mortal willing to chant over your corpse (or any of your backup soul jars, or possibly even your emergency Resurrection Scarab). And an Utterance that lets you broadcast dreams, Cthulhu-style, between Descents.

Despite all that, though, I'd still put my money on the Archmage.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Dammit, from what I'm hearing I REALLY need to get my hands on a copy of Mummy, it sounds like they did just as good a job as I was hoping they would!