General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Lord Raziere]

Presentation goes both ways, sweetie.

and this is where I stopped listening because I hate the word "sweetie".

@Mugasofer: and? what is the point here? you seemed to have missed the point of what I was talking about.

nothing stops you from refluffing any of this and making whatever you want. if you can't do even that, I question how good you really are at roleplaying when you let yourself be confined so easily that your unable to reshape things to make it work. your letting the mechanics have too much power over you and allowing them to get in the way of your fun, they are nothing but tools to be used as you wish, not things to confine and limit your thinking.

[Sith_Happens]

Explain to me the part where most splats' abilities aren't based on the same underlying mechanics? Mages kind of do their own thing, but for everyone else it can be boiled down to "spend mana, roll dice, reasonably specific thing happens."

[MugaSofer]

@Mugasofer: and? what is the point here? you seemed to have missed the point of what I was talking about.

nothing stops you from refluffing any of this and making whatever you want.

You seem to have missed the point of what I was talking about. Those aren't "fluff", those are mechanical differences, that influence play through the "game" part of "role playing game".

Also, um ... is there a reason you aren't capitalising the start of your sentences?

[Lord Raziere]

You seem to have missed the point of what I was talking about. Those aren't "fluff", those are mechanical differences, that influence play through the "game" part of "role playing game".

Also, um ... is there a reason you aren't capitalising the start of your sentences?

yes, and I was talking about eliminating them for something simpler and easily handled, so yeah, missed my point.

oh what, now your criticizing my grammar for no reason? conversation: over.

[SiuiS]

and this is where I stopped listening because I hate the word "sweetie".

Your loss.

oh what, now your criticizing my grammar for no reason? conversation: over.

You kinda started it, what with the nitpicking.

[MugaSofer]

yes, and I was talking about eliminating them for something simpler and easily handled, so yeah, missed my point.

You: We could make all the mechanics the same. That would be simpler!

Me: But the different splats use those mechanical differences to encouradge their themes.

You: Didn't you hear me?

So no, I didn't miss your point. I said that those extraneous complications you want to get rid of are serving a purpose, there. (Not always serving it well, or course)

oh what, now your criticizing my grammar for no reason?

No, I was wondering if you were using a phone and had some technical difficulty, that was all. Just curious.

[josienoms]

If anyone's looking to play in a Requiem for Rome game, I have a recruitment thread going on here.

[Turalisj]

So... I'm going to make my first Changeling character, and I'm a bit lost on how to set it up. I'm looking at a Dawn Court Snowskin, who was a CIA operative before being.... taken? Abducted? Kidnapped? What's the special term?

Anyway, I figure them for a freelance troubleshooter with a focus more on charisma and social abilities with a secondary in dirtying their hands...

[tasw]

I... Don't particularly consider that 'evidence', honestly. All the morality analogues are ****ed up in one way or another, with Integrity, as an actual, y'know, measure of mental stability, working best.



So could the girl who works at the coffee shop downtown who's got controlled DID. She need to die too? Remember, as far as you're aware, she's currently worked it out so this doesn't cause too many problems for her, and she's not currently hurting anyone, just doing her job - in fact, she has a girlfriend who will be very hurt if she dies.

That's what this 'well, maybe they'll do something eventually so we should kill them now!' thing means, you know.



It would be appreciated if you didn't come up with flimsy veils for why you're completely ignoring the actual parameters set out in the hypothetical to twist things around so that you're still justified in killing them.

Likewise, it would be nice if you didn't assume that your narrow little view of what a vampire can be is The One True Way to run them and force other people's conceptions into that box when presented with counterexamples.

You win the confused goth girl of the night emmy. Congrats. Speech ?

[josienoms]

So, I freaking love the Requiem for Rome setting. The only thing I don't like about it is the way they handle the Julii. They replace the Ventrue with, essentially... the Ventrue.

Now, their origins are different, but they come off as being pretty much exactly the same Clan. I want to make them more distinct, make them feel like they're actually different. So I've proposed a slight change to them, in addition to the already changed Clan Weakness.

The Julii are the backbone of the Camarilla, and they need both the force of arms and personality to enforce their will upon the Roman world. Rather than the traditional Ventrue Disciplines of Animalism, Dominate, and Resilience, the Julii posses Dominate, Resilience, and Vigor.

I've also debated changing one of their choices for Bonus Attribute, but I'm not sure which one I'd change, or what I would change it to.

Any thoughts?

[Leliel]

So... I'm going to make my first Changeling character, and I'm a bit lost on how to set it up. I'm looking at a Dawn Court Snowskin, who was a CIA operative before being.... taken? Abducted? Kidnapped? What's the special term?

There isn't one. There is one for the period you were taken-the Durance-but otherwise...

Anyway, I figure them for a freelance troubleshooter with a focus more on charisma and social abilities with a secondary in dirtying their hands...

Sounds exactly like the Dawn Court to me. Well-intentioned but amoral, just like the actual CIA, in theory.

[Lady Serpentine]

You win the confused goth girl of the night emmy. Congrats. Speech ?

Mm, no thanks. I prefer not to waste my time writing up anything that could really be called a proper speech just because someone decided to dredge up a two week old post just to be insulting about it.

Maybe if a few other people ask... Though I don't know, even then. I'm terribly short on black dresses right now, and really, given the award, what else could I wear? Anything besides a dress seems far too informal, and the color is so dreadfully important, though with the context, I suppose I could pull off dark red...

[Turalisj]

So what would you suggest for a Changeling being in a sanboxy game with a bunch of Mages and one or two Vampires?

Keeping in mind I've never made a Changeling before....

[Mr.Bookworm]

So what would you suggest for a Changeling being in a sanboxy game with a bunch of Mages and one or two Vampires?

Keeping in mind I've never made a Changeling before....

I would suggest a social or artificer character, because Changelings are sharp as hell at those roles.

For a social character, you're almost certainly taking the Fairest seeming. From there, Flowering is an excellent choice, and it ties in very well to the Spring court. The first two dots of Fleeting Spring are amazing when combined with pledges. Vainglory is very nice (giving you flat-up immunity to mortals if you sink your other three dots into it), but you can also spread out a bit.

An artificer character is similarly almost certainly going to be a Wizened. Kith is a bit more open, just pick whatever you think is cool (Smiths have a unique advantage pertaining to cold iron if you think that might come up). From there, just pick up Contracts of Animation and Artifice (Artifice 3 and Animation 2 is a good starting spread). This also makes you a pretty good at combat, as you can slap a bunch of dice (and the 9-again of the Wizened) onto your rolls with a rifle or whatever.

Finally, never forget pledges. Pledges are amazing no matter what you decide to do. You can get any non-supernatural merit you want and you can offer anyone the same when you want to get your Old Scratch on.

If you want some versatility with your character, I'd suggest the Goblin Vow merit. It basically lets you make pledges with concepts (you get one concept a dot, but they need to be fairly specific), so you could call up a fire if you had Goblin Vow (Campfires) for instance. Very handy.

[Turalisj]

I was actually planning on Dawn Court, but Kith could be variable.

[Turalisj]

Sorry for the double post, but what would you suggest for a Social Mummy character? I was thinking of going Sheut with Tef-Aahbi as my Guild.... One dot in each Pillar with an additional dot in Ba and Ren and three dots total in Sheut.

[SiuiS]

So what would you suggest for a Changeling being in a sanboxy game with a bunch of Mages and one or two Vampires?

Keeping in mind I've never made a Changeling before....

I would suggest Don't. Seriously. You'll get all the wrong impressions if you jump head-first into a multisplat game without really getting a feel for what the goals of each game are. Consider Vampire, Werewolf, Changeling et al to be different campaigns. You want to finish campaign A before mixing in Campaign B, otherwise no one will know why Excalibur is in the hands of a Dalek who threatens all of Faerun.

[tasw]

So, I freaking love the Requiem for Rome setting. The only thing I don't like about it is the way they handle the Julii. They replace the Ventrue with, essentially... the Ventrue.

Now, their origins are different, but they come off as being pretty much exactly the same Clan. I want to make them more distinct, make them feel like they're actually different. So I've proposed a slight change to them, in addition to the already changed Clan Weakness.

The Julii are the backbone of the Camarilla, and they need both the force of arms and personality to enforce their will upon the Roman world. Rather than the traditional Ventrue Disciplines of Animalism, Dominate, and Resilience, the Julii posses Dominate, Resilience, and Vigor.

I've also debated changing one of their choices for Bonus Attribute, but I'm not sure which one I'd change, or what I would change it to.

Any thoughts?

well it matches the theme you want for them but it kinda makes them the hands down default choice for anyone who wants to powergame a vampire who solves his problems with violence rather then keeping that choice mixed up like before.

[One Tin Soldier]

Sorry for the double post, but what would you suggest for a Social Mummy character? I was thinking of going Sheut with Tef-Aahbi as my Guild.... One dot in each Pillar with an additional dot in Ba and Ren and three dots total in Sheut.

Well, the one Mummy I made was a social character, and I focused on Ab, and got powers that helped out my presence score. Though it is worth noting that this character was essentially BRIAN BLESSED, and it may not fit with a more subtle concept.

So what would you suggest for a Changeling being in a sanboxy game with a bunch of Mages and one or two Vampires?

Keeping in mind I've never made a Changeling before....

I'd say be cautious of balance issues, but you're already mixing mages and vampires, so that's already shot. Bookworm had some good points, particularly when it comes to pledges. Changelings have a bunch of weird abilities, so try looking into those. Whatever you do, try to make it fit with what the other characters are doing.

[Turalisj]

Well I think my best chance is to get Blase for my cult and keep myself surrounded with cultist guards. That way a Mage can't cast anything around me without risking Paradox.

[The Glyphstone]

So he Scries on you from his Demense and remotely summons antimatter in your pants from two continents away instead.

Better plan - be the Mage's friend, so he won't have a reason to PvP you. Then you don't need the cultist guards, and he'll be able to cast around you without issue.

[Turalisj]

See, this is why I don't like Mages. The rules are so loose that you can abuse them in any way you want, as long as you can BS the proper response.

It's less playing a game with rules and more playing poker with your ST.

[The Glyphstone]

You would have hated OWoD Mage then...it's explicitly like that, whether you have the appropriate magic knowledge to do something far less relevant than your ability to BS your storyteller into letting what magic you do have be used for a functionally identical result. For example, the use of the Life Arcana, focused on healing, buffing, and protection, to instant-kill someone via magical super-cancer.

In NuMage, they just gave up and let Mages have unlimited power. Space mastery+Matter mastery+a demense and ritual casting can totally conjure antimatter in someone's pants at a distance, and the only bit that requires any ST BSing is the antimatter bit (as opposed to, say, thermite).

[Longes]

In NuMage, they just gave up and let Mages have unlimited power. Space mastery+Matter mastery+a demense and ritual casting can totally conjure antimatter in someone's pants at a distance, and the only bit that requires any ST BSing is the antimatter bit (as opposed to, say, thermite).

Extended casting is capped by the number of dice on your roll.

[SiuiS]

So he Scries on you from his Demense and remotely summons antimatter in your pants from two continents away instead.

Getting blasé with the majiks is a straight ticket to archmagi kicking down your door, hunters marauding you and eventually being eaten by an elder demon. That sounds like game balance to me!

Better plan - be the Mage's friend, so he won't have a reason to PvP you. Then you don't need the cultist guards, and he'll be able to cast around you without issue.

Legit.

"Hey, you want to learn death? Follow me for a night. One condition though – we get an oath before your consilium to owe me a favor. I'll take that magically reinforced if necessary~"

You would have hated OWoD Mage then...it's explicitly like that, whether you have the appropriate magic knowledge to do something far less relevant than your ability to BS your storyteller into letting what magic you do have be used for a functionally identical result. For example, the use of the Life Arcana, focused on healing, buffing, and protection, to instant-kill someone via magical super-cancer.

In NuMage, they just gave up and let Mages have unlimited power. Space mastery+Matter mastery+a demense and ritual casting can totally conjure antimatter in someone's pants at a distance, and the only bit that requires any ST BSing is the antimatter bit (as opposed to, say, thermite).

Not... Really? A starting character needs to be utterly incapable of most professions and livelihood to have mastery, the XP investment is steep, and you're technically required to RP and do in-game story stuff (read: storyteller gating) to get up to mastery, to get a demesne and to get the soulstone for the demesne. There are mechanisms for inhibiting abuse, it's just that people who worship at the altar of RAW tend to miss the tone of the nWoD writers.

I mean, seriously. A LOT rides on their tone, and when that isn't communicated clearly... Look at all the GMC issues that they thought a casual, "just play it out without lawyering" attitude would fix.

[Selrahc]

So he Scries on you from his Demense and remotely summons antimatter in your pants from two continents away instead.

Antimatter, probably not. That's a Matter 5 Unmaking rote *at least*. And casting it via sympathetic connection would require an extra dot.

You really are better sticking to Thermite.

Against a Mummy though, you'd better hope that they don't have "Rebuke the Vizier". Because if they do, your magic is going to fail if it is cast anywhere within the vicinity. You won't be able to scry them, and you'll have to resort to Thermite bombing somewhere near to where you hope they will be. If the mummy doesn't have that... I would still be incredibly wary of killing them. Curses are bad news, and don't care where the target is.

A mage sitting in his luxury penthouse in Manhattan might suddenly find that all the water within 2 miles of him has turned to blood, getting him into severe trouble with the local Consillium if they ever find out he is responsible. Or the Mummy could unleash something directly dangerous. A single use of "Wrathful Desert Power" could potentially kill, quite easily, while "Secrets Ripped From the Skies" might crash into mage armour, but will at least hit a large radius and set everything on fire. Or the mage might be hit with something more subtle, such as Doom Affliction 3, which can add a +1 to the target number for any (e.g)Matter Spell he casts, and cause all failures to be treated as dramatic ones. For a really dramatic "screw you" the Mummy can potentially unleash Earthquakes or Meteor Showers on their attacker post death.

Meanwhile then, the Cult of the Mummy will be scouring the world for the mage, and 5 hours after the Thermite bomb the mummy got back up.

Trying to murder a mummy isn't worth it, even if you can do it quite easily. You need to get somebody else to land the deathblow, and they need to do so without magical compulsion.

[SiuiS]

Antimatter, probably not. That's a Matter 5 Unmaking rote *at least*. And casting it via sympathetic connection would require an extra dot.

You really are better sticking to Thermite.

Against a Mummy though, you'd better hope that they don't have "Rebuke the Vizier". Because if they do, your magic is going to fail if it is cast anywhere within the vicinity. You won't be able to scry them, and you'll have to resort to Thermite bombing somewhere near to where you hope they will be. If the mummy doesn't have that... I would still be incredibly wary of killing them. Curses are bad news, and don't care where the target is.

A mage sitting in his luxury penthouse in Manhattan might suddenly find that all the water within 2 miles of him has turned to blood, getting him into severe trouble with the local Consillium if they ever find out he is responsible. Or the Mummy could unleash something directly dangerous. A single use of "Wrathful Desert Power" could potentially kill, quite easily, while "Secrets Ripped From the Skies" might crash into mage armour, but will at least hit a large radius and set everything on fire. Or the mage might be hit with something more subtle, such as Doom Affliction 3, which can add a +1 to the target number for any (e.g)Matter Spell he casts, and cause all failures to be treated as dramatic ones. For a really dramatic "screw you" the Mummy can potentially unleash Earthquakes or Meteor Showers on their attacker post death.

Meanwhile then, the Cult of the Mummy will be scouring the world for the mage, and 5 hours after the Thermite bomb the mummy got back up.

Trying to murder a mummy isn't worth it, even if you can do it quite easily. You need to get somebody else to land the deathblow, and they need to do so without magical compulsion.

Proximity gets weird with Space involved, too - doesn't a sympathetic connection put you in proximity? Poor wizard.

Althouhg, if you're in a luxury penthouse, you're either a Seer or targeted by one. Big money, temporal power? That's their bag, man.

And I don't think dramatic failures do anything on mage spells. I'd prefer otherwise, but can't recall anything.

[Turalisj]

Meanwhile then, the Cult of the Mummy will be scouring the world for the mage, and 5 hours after the Thermite bomb the mummy got back up.

The Grasp 5 cult (possible at chargen) will have hacked into the servers of every clandestine agency in the world along with every law enforcement agency, and given the mage a rap sheet so long that he won't be able to walk into a McDonalds without getting arrested.

[The Glyphstone]

Antimatter, probably not. That's a Matter 5 Unmaking rote *at least*. And casting it via sympathetic connection would require an extra dot.

You really are better sticking to Thermite.

Against a Mummy though, you'd better hope that they don't have "Rebuke the Vizier". Because if they do, your magic is going to fail if it is cast anywhere within the vicinity. You won't be able to scry them, and you'll have to resort to Thermite bombing somewhere near to where you hope they will be. If the mummy doesn't have that... I would still be incredibly wary of killing them. Curses are bad news, and don't care where the target is.

A mage sitting in his luxury penthouse in Manhattan might suddenly find that all the water within 2 miles of him has turned to blood, getting him into severe trouble with the local Consillium if they ever find out he is responsible. Or the Mummy could unleash something directly dangerous. A single use of "Wrathful Desert Power" could potentially kill, quite easily, while "Secrets Ripped From the Skies" might crash into mage armour, but will at least hit a large radius and set everything on fire. Or the mage might be hit with something more subtle, such as Doom Affliction 3, which can add a +1 to the target number for any (e.g)Matter Spell he casts, and cause all failures to be treated as dramatic ones. For a really dramatic "screw you" the Mummy can potentially unleash Earthquakes or Meteor Showers on their attacker post death.

Meanwhile then, the Cult of the Mummy will be scouring the world for the mage, and 5 hours after the Thermite bomb the mummy got back up.

Trying to murder a mummy isn't worth it, even if you can do it quite easily. You need to get somebody else to land the deathblow, and they need to do so without magical compulsion.

Mummies just got way more awesome. I need to get my hands on that book.

[Turalisj]

You really should.

A Mummy with Ren 5 and Eternal Glory will always be assured that, no matter what, her Cult will regain lost dots (at one dot per decade). With Ka 2 and Retributive Curse, every time you die the person who killed you will, at some point on a roll where failure could result in death or injury, have the target number bumped up by 1. And that results in a dramatic failure if possible.