Simple Caster Limitation

[Kelb_Panthera]

And the truth is your fix would only make it so casters broke the game outstide of combat. This would make them entirely unplayable within the context of a usual game. This would force casters to be crafters, which would just destroy the game in ways you haven't dreamed of.

No 17th level wizard is going to wait 9 rounds to cast a spell in combat (it would be over by then, one way or the other), and a level 1 spell is going to do nothing to change things by then. The DCs are too low, and the effects are just laughable in combat.

As was mentioned. Melee is going to be even more hosed by your only 1 buff rule.

This is exactly what I meant in my last post, I just didn't say it quite this well.

[Batou1976]

Instead of messing with casting times as drastically as making a 9th level spell take 9 rounds to cast, perhaps what is needed is to bring back fluid initiative, but not like how it was done in 2E.

In 2E, for those who don't know, at the beginning of each round everyone declared their actions and *then* rolled initiative. Spells and "slow" weapons like greatswords applied a modifier which caused you to go later in the round than characters who'd declared faster actions.

Since in 3E/PF you don't decide your action until it's your turn, and initiative is rolled only once, what could be done instead is applying a modifier to the character's current initiative number, causing them to go later in *subsequent* rounds. Spycraft/ Fantasycraft uses this method.

This still wouldn't stop casters from breaking the game outside of combat, though. It would only cause them to think a bit more carefully about throwing around their higher-level (slower) spells.

Those gamebreaking spells and tricks are a big problem though, IMHO. I prefer campaigns that can be compared to Lord of the Rings, Dragonlance Chronicles, Final Fantasy VI, Skyrim (and Oblivion), Lodoss War, etc etc. I definitely do NOT care for games in which a wizard uses some funky combo of spells and feats to make himself king of the earth (and his rogue, fighter, and paladin buddies irrelevant).

Dragonlance would have been rather dull (and cheesy) if Raistlin had simply exploited some Time Stop/ Gate/ Candle of Invocation/ Wish spam trick to deal with things.

[eggs]

This is sideswiping the problems again.

I don't think anyone's problem with the system is that spells can be cast in combat. Warmages and Healers do it without anything breaking; Warblades and Swordsages do it (granted, they put the mechanics into a groucho disguise), and that's what makes them fun. Cutting out the fun parts of the game, ruining a bunch of classes that don't need it (Dread Necro & co) and only glancingly addressing the main issue is not a good solution.


If casting times were extended and there were side effects or partial manifestations of the spell that gradually take effect until the spell was completed, the increased casting-time system would be less bad. At that point, you're leaving the realm of a "quick fix" or "simple limitation," but it sounds like a fun homebrew.