Dresden Files: Winter is coming (Cold Days Spoilers)

[Aidan305]

Or maybe his magic-gibberish is leetspeek and internet memes.

Telekinetic grab: "I CAN HAS".
Shield spell: "DO NOT WANT".

Cold Days

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Iceberg spell: "I'm the King of the World!"

[PairO'Dice Lost]

If you go with my "Your perception of Magic alters your competency", he might perceive Magic like a programming language. Rather than just pick some nonsense words, he builds himself an entire language of incantations which he then combines into increasingly complex spells, which he then stores in a Focus and sets to go off with a specific keyword.

Rick Cook wrote a series with a similar conceit, collected in Wizardry Compiled. Basically, a software engineer is tossed into a fantasy world where magic works but is highly unpredictable and dangerous, and some potent or complex spells can create living daemons as a side effect. He tries to figure out how to classify and understand magic because, hey, engineer, and he eventually writes a magical version of emacs complete with a spell compiler and Unix daemons.

In later books he ends up going back to Earth and pulling in other programmers from his team to help with development, releasing code into the wild and creating magic script kiddies, running into someone else from his world who becomes a technomancer, and other fun stuff. Surprisingly similar to the issues Dresden runs into with sorcerers and the Paranet, calling in the Wardens, etc. It would certainly make an interesting crossover.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Unless it's not so much "What the Wizard sees as advanced" as it is "What the Wizard understands", which means that Harry can't keep a refrigerator around, not because he thinks it's crazy newfangled supertech, but because he does not know how it works.

Well Harry himself is probably not a good baseline. He was born in what the 70s, so between being on the road with his dad and in social services, he would not have a lot of machinery around. A refrigerator would be back in the cafeteria somewhere for example. Add to that he's was probably not a good student in school. Add two wizards that doubtless had even less in the way of tech and insert that magic fries tech in his head. Stirr well with "I'm a moody wizard" and its no wonder he's walking techbane.

His apartment would have a further issues. First Harry's been pretty poor since forever, so all his stuff is going to be cheap thus probably less durable. Second since he lives there and does a lot of magic there, building things up. Harry doesn't blow out much beyond computers just by being in the room, and that's only when they are on.

Compare that up until Changes Michael was presumably still maintaining a modern home with Molly in the house, as he stated he was doing before.

...Did I just make a logically consistent Dresdenverse Vancian caster? Because I think I just did.

Seems pretty close, though I doubt it would quite get that clear cut.

I'm not clear how much energy Harry put into his foci in the first place. His duster and ring yes, blasting rod I'm less sure.

[Lamech]

If I wanted to be a techomancer I think you could use something like Bob. He can probably keep stray bits of magic away, and he can function as a helpful computer spirit. Plus he can reproduce. (Although teaching anything like bob how to copy himself would probably be frowned upon.)

[The Glyphstone]

If I wanted to be a techomancer I think you could use something like Bob. He can probably keep stray bits of magic away, and he can function as a helpful computer spirit. Plus he can reproduce. (Although teaching anything like bob how to copy himself would probably be frowned upon.)

Bob can't really copy himself...he can divide himself, but that just ends up with two or more part-Bobs.

[Lamech]

Bob can't really copy himself...he can divide himself, but that just ends up with two or more part-Bobs.

True, but those Bob's can learn new things and split off into more copies. Its more or less how a cell divides. It grows and grows, and then it divides. Then the new Bob's can teach each other stuff! Hmm... you could split parts into Divider Bob (who knows how to divide) and Computer Bob (who knows how to computer.)

Now if only Bob could learn how to build his own sanctum you could put him in a smartphones and sell them.

[datalaughing]

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Has it been stated that heaven and hell are part of our reality the same way the Nevernever is? I mean, it makes sense for it to be, but I'm not sure I recall anyone saying that.

Little late on this, but I thought I would respond. In answer to your question, yes, it has. Here's the quote from Summer Knight:
"The Nevernever is a big place. In fact, it's the biggest place. The Nevernever is what the wizards call the entirety of the realm of spirit. It isn't a physical place, with geography and weather patterns and so on. It's a shadow world, a magical realm, and its substance is as mutable as thought. It has a lot of names, like the Other Side and the Next World, and it contains within it just about any kind of spirit realm you can imagine, somewhere. Heaven, Hell, Olympus, Elysium, Tartarus, Gehenna-you name it, and it's in the Nevernever somewhere. In theory, at any rate."

Outsiders, on the other hand, are from outside our universe.

[Anderlith]

Anyone else think Bob's new vessel might be Demonreach?

[The Glyphstone]

Anyone else think Bob's new vessel might be Demonreach?

Wouldn't Demonreach object?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I kinda got the impression Bob himself would be fried from a lack of capacity even if Demonreach didn't object.

Besides lets face it that would be waaay too classy of Harry. I'm thinking more like Coke bottle myself.

[Anderlith]

Demonreach the island, not Demonreach the Spirit

[Aidan305]

Not to be picky, but Demonreach the island is Demonreach the spirit.

[jindra34]

Not to be picky, but Demonreach the island is Demonreach the spirit.

Yep. Whole Genus Loci deal.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Apparently even more literally then that might normally be, presuming its a bit different then the standard genus loci.

Kinda makes me wonder actually if Butcher changed Demonreach's nature or not between first introduction and now.

We always like to pretend author's have vast sweeping schemes figured out, but I understand plenty of times they set up mysteries without an answer already in place.

[Anderlith]

The spirt is the island
the island is not the spirit

The physical island is just as mundane as anything else

[Drolyt]

We always like to pretend author's have vast sweeping schemes figured out, but I understand plenty of times they set up mysteries without an answer already in place.

I on the other hand never understood why fans assume authors have detailed plans. More than a few authors have said they think planning is bad. That said, Butcher has said he does have plans, but we also know for a fact those plans have changed somewhat (I understand there are currently more books than he originally intended to get to this point in the storyline). So was Demonreach already conceived in his current form when he was introduced? Impossible to say, unless Butcher says something about it, and even then he could be lying.

[jindra34]

The spirt is the island
the island is not the spirit

The physical island is just as mundane as anything else

In the sense that your mind is not a part of your body yes. But the whole of you includes both so saying that either is not you is kinda stupid.

Also mundane seems an ill fit descriptor for an island Merlin reinforced to be a maximum security prison for what amounts to gods.

[Anderlith]

In the sense that your mind is not a part of your body yes. But the whole of you includes both so saying that either is not you is kinda stupid.

Also mundane seems an ill fit descriptor for an island Merlin reinforced to be a maximum security prison for what amounts to gods.

Great metaphor. There is the mind, Demonreach, & there is the body, the island. Bob would be a second mind bound to the same body. An ettin island if you will.

& the island is mundane, the island existed, unenchanted for a very long time before Merlin showed up, tossed some magic through time & made an Eternal Crystal Prison of Illinois.

[Drolyt]

In the sense that your mind is not a part of your body yes. But the whole of you includes both so saying that either is not you is kinda stupid.

Arguable. Some would say the mind (or soul or whatever) is the only real part, the body isn't really you or even a part of you. Others would go to the opposite extreme and say that your mind is a part of your body and it is silly to speak as if it is something different.

[Lamech]

Little late on this, but I thought I would respond. In answer to your question, yes, it has. Here's the quote from Summer Knight:
"The Nevernever is a big place. In fact, it's the biggest place. The Nevernever is what the wizards call the entirety of the realm of spirit. It isn't a physical place, with geography and weather patterns and so on. It's a shadow world, a magical realm, and its substance is as mutable as thought. It has a lot of names, like the Other Side and the Next World, and it contains within it just about any kind of spirit realm you can imagine, somewhere. Heaven, Hell, Olympus, Elysium, Tartarus, Gehenna-you name it, and it's in the Nevernever somewhere. In theory, at any rate."

Outsiders, on the other hand, are from outside our universe.

I suspect that there is a heaven/hell outside of the Nevernever. See Dresden's experiences with the "in between" or whatever he called it. The place with the angel, and Uriels cops. Those trains run to Heaven and Hell, and I strongly suspect that you can find real angels in those places.

Then I suspect in addition to the Angel filled ones, you'll find a "heaven" or "heavens", filled with "angel" spirits. And "hell"s filled with demons. Those aren't the real deals. You got spirits not angels. You have ghosts, not souls.

So, no the Nevernever does not contain Heaven or Hell. Plus if it did, someone would have found it and gone "Hey look at all these souls! I know where dead people go!". It probably contains lookalikes though.

[The Glyphstone]

So, no the Nevernever does not contain Heaven or Hell. Plus if it did, someone would have found it and gone "Hey look at all these souls! I know where dead people go!"

Why do you say that? The Nevernever is not exactly an easy place to navigate or explore, to make a gigantic understatement. What makes you think a mortal could even reach either such place before dying of old age, even ignoring any potentially lethal obstacle in his way?

The 'in-between' could have just been a type of demense, which we know ghosts can create and inhabit. Harry didn't get to explore it much.

[GenericMook]

Honestly, aside from Faerie, not much else of the Nevernever is actually seen in the books.

Also, if anyone found where souls are in the afterlife, I really doubt they'd be able to get in. Heaven's probably going to be defended really, really well, and Hell would probably cost you your whole Name to enter.

Besides, even if anyone did find it, why would they tell anyone? If people have found it, I'm guessing it'll be few and far between.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Also, if anyone found where souls are in the afterlife, I really doubt they'd be able to get in. Heaven's probably going to be defended really, really well, and Hell would probably cost you your whole Name to enter.

I think getting into Hell is probably free. Getting out...

But there's a really obvious reason why Heaven wouldn't be reachable.

Wizard: Ahhah after centuries of research and mapping of the ways I have located Heaven. Apparatum!
*spell fizzles*
Wizard: I don't understand my theory was perfect, my analysis complete, my...
Angel: Hey.
Wizard: What how'd you get in here through my defenses?
Angel: Look that's not important, you need to stop what you are trying, it won't work.
Wizard: Oh yeah says who?
Angel: ...Him.

[GenericMook]

Yeah, Hell probably wouldn't cost anything to enter. Still, you probably won't be making it out alive.

Also, I'm currently listening to the audiobook for Death Masks, and I suddenly remembered:

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What'll happen if Mac finds out that Harry keeps his ale cold?

[Anderlith]

Yeah, Hell probably wouldn't cost anything to enter. Still, you probably won't be making it out alive.

Also, I'm currently listening to the audiobook for Death Masks, and I suddenly remembered:

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What'll happen if Mac finds out that Harry keeps his ale cold?

Jim Butcher does want to end the Dresden Files with a bit apocalyptic trilogy...

[jindra34]

Searching for the afterlife would also likely run a wizard into very grey grounds of the 5th Law: Don't reach beyond death iirc. So only the very foolish, arrogant and/or powerful would even think of starting it.

[Connington]

So only the very foolish, arrogant and/or powerful would even think of starting it.

Crap.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Of course Harry would need a reason, he's not going anywhere near something like that without a reason. If he had one though yeah he'd try without a doubt.

[Eldan]

Crap.

Evil Bob is certainly powerful. I'd say Ferrovax is also arrogant.

[Connington]

The classifications are shamelessly manipulated for humor and symmetry. Otherwise, there'd be practically no pure Arrogants, and way too many Arrogant/Powerfuls.

Anyways, Evil Bob is less powerful than regular Bob (except in Bad Stuff), and I used the straight Powerful category for some of the biggest hitters. Jim says Ferrovax can curb stomp Mab and Eldest Gruff at the same time, so it seemed appropriate.