She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[General Patton]

I may be wrong, but I thought terminal velocity was based on gravitational force, not wind resistance.

Also, I think you mean orange filters, and high speed winds break orange filters, so that's out.

I did mean orange.

Gravitational force causes essentially constant acceleration regardless of your speed. Drag is proportional to the square of an object's velocity with respect to the fluid it is moving through. In Earth's atmosphere, your downward acceleration is actually 9.8 m/s^2 minus the effects of drag. Terminal velocity is where the drag exactly matches gravity. If you were already going faster than terminal velocity, then drag would be stronger than gravity and you'd start slowing down until you reached terminal. The whole point of parachutes is that they drastically increase your drag coefficient so that your terminal velocity becomes something nonlethal. So... yeah, that's why in space, or artificial vacuums, there is no such thing as an arbitrary top speed. As long as you can provide thrust, you can get faster, because you aren't being resisted by anything proportional to your speed.

If your orange filter vacuum chamber is inside your craft, then the hull is protecting the filters from the wind speeds.

[Omnicrat]

I did mean orange.

Gravitational force causes essentially constant acceleration regardless of your speed. Drag is proportional to the square of an object's velocity with respect to the fluid it is moving through. In Earth's atmosphere, your downward acceleration is actually 9.8 m/s^2 minus the effects of drag. Terminal velocity is where the drag exactly matches gravity. If you were already going faster than terminal velocity, then drag would be stronger than gravity and you'd start slowing down until you reached terminal. The whole point of parachutes is that they drastically increase your drag coefficient so that your terminal velocity becomes something nonlethal. So... yeah, that's why in space, or artificial vacuums, there is no such thing as an arbitrary top speed. As long as you can provide thrust, you can get faster, because you aren't being resisted by anything proportional to your speed.

If your orange filter vacuum chamber is inside your craft, then the hull is protecting the filters from the wind speeds.

It's been a while since terminal velocity came up in my daily life. My mistake.

If the vacuum filter is inside the craft, isn't it still subject to terminal velocity? The gravity-drive powering the ship is still attached to the ship, after all.

[General Patton]

It's been a while since terminal velocity came up in my daily life. My mistake.

If the vacuum filter is inside the craft, isn't it still subject to terminal velocity? The gravity-drive powering the ship is still attached to the ship, after all.

That's why you need to find a way to have the rest of the ship's motion be based on the motion of your vacuum chamber antigrav core. Perhaps the metal hull is sandwiched between yellow filters that are tethered to the core.

1. Small object freefalls without drag in direction of choice
2. Yellow filters move with object
3. Hull moves with filters
4. ???
5. Profit
6. Light speed (at least according to Newton's gravity equation, not sure what general relativity has to say about this)

[Omnicrat]

That's why you need to find a way to have the rest of the ship's motion be based on the motion of your vacuum chamber antigrav core. Perhaps the metal hull is sandwiched between yellow filters that are tethered to the core.

1. Small object freefalls without drag in direction of choice
2. Yellow filters move with object
3. Hull moves with filters
4. ???
5. Profit
6. Light speed (at least according to Newton's gravity equation, not sure what general relativity has to say about this)

Hm... the filters would eventually collapse from the increased weight of the metal pushing on them. Even if the hull is only one inch thick alchemetric mithril, and we have one inch by one inch yellow filters to increase the maximum weight able to be held, and it still breaks down as the speed of light is approached.

Sounds pretty dangerous, unless you want to put the thousands upon thousands of hours of labor into all those filters, and then it still breaks down at the highest possible speeds.

[Amechra]

Yeah, lightspeed ain't happening.

Seriously, you've got the problem of hitting NI mass, no matter what, so you are going to be crushed by the weight of your own hair.

So...

Why even bother with metal hulls? Last time I checked, a layered Red/Orange/Yellow/Violet hull would be far superior, and would have the added benefit of being massless.

And, if you want to add some fun... You can have a semi-space portal connect you with home, so you literally don't have to be there.

Because otherwise... how are you going to shield against relativistic effects? If I remember correctly, there aren't any fluxes that decrease mass, which are going to be what you would want...

The ideal spaceship would be a small ball of whatever, tethered to a layered Red/Yellow/Orange Barrier, which is itself used to cover over a subspace, which leads back to home base, where that side is covered by a violet hatch to stop idiots from walking through.

The small ball is shot at where-ever you need to go with a ballistic engine, and you would just have to wait.

And, oh, because no-one has mentioned it yet... open a subspace at the bottom of the ocean.

Connect it to one at a different point.

Best water gun?

[Omnicrat]

Amechra, one problem with your hull: Orange filters are broken by wind. Theoretically, you could make a heat vacuum, but it still takes a lot longer to be able to make that than a gravity ship.

I mean, max speed of 70 fps isn't that bad, and can be enhanced by simple engines.

[General Patton]

Hm... the filters would eventually collapse from the increased weight of the metal pushing on them. Even if the hull is only one inch thick alchemetric mithril, and we have one inch by one inch yellow filters to increase the maximum weight able to be held, and it still breaks down as the speed of light is approached.

Sounds pretty dangerous, unless you want to put the thousands upon thousands of hours of labor into all those filters, and then it still breaks down at the highest possible speeds.

Time to break out the big guns.

1. Build your ship on a demiplane
2. Wrap the outside of it in portals facing inwards
3. Build your vacuum chamber antigrav core on the material plane
4. Place portals on the material plane, surrounding the core, tethered to it, facing outwards, in the exact same shape as the portals covering your ship

The antigrav core moves around with ease while it and the portals act as something of a proxy by which the ship itself can interact with the material plane. You now have a ship that is stationary and virtually projects its presence onto another plane without actually being there. Much easier than designing an inertial dampener.

I originally came up with this concept while trying to draft up some ultimate gramary power armor that would have most of the benefits of teleoperation/telepresence by virtue of being able to shut down the portals to save the operator and armor at the cost of the mobile proxy reference point. Why go exploring in a dangerous place when you can be 5 feet away from every form of support imaginable and interact via portals? Never could get that to pan out though. Unlike a ship, the armor has to have parts of itself move relative to each other. Getting the output portals to mirror that is too hard.

[Omnicrat]

Time to break out the big guns.

1. Build your ship on a demiplane
2. Wrap the outside of it in portals facing inwards
3. Build your vacuum chamber antigrav core on the material plane
4. Place portals on the material plane, surrounding the core, tethered to it, facing outwards, in the exact same shape as the portals covering your ship

The antigrav core moves around with ease while it and the portals act as something of a proxy by which the ship itself can interact with the material plane. You now have a ship that is stationary and virtually projects its presence onto another plane without actually being there. Much easier than designing an inertial dampener.

I originally came up with this concept while trying to draft up some ultimate gramary power armor that would have most of the benefits of teleoperation/telepresence by virtue of being able to shut down the portals to save the operator and armor at the cost of the mobile proxy reference point. Why go exploring in a dangerous place when you can be 5 feet away from every form of support imaginable and interact via portals? Never could get that to pan out though. Unlike a ship, the armor has to have parts of itself move relative to each other. Getting the output portals to mirror that is too hard.

That works well. You would need two vacuums at least: a heat vacuum and a standard vacuum. Everyone seems to keep forgetting high speed winds break vacuum filters. Worst case scenario, it could be an ortho engine block with some type of power source (probably magnetic) and use that to increase speed beyond terminal velocity. Of course, this model of the ship requires doctorate principles, or at least magisterial if your "ship" is just a room in your castle.

A similar principle could apply to your power armor. Have your body be in a different place than your arms, legs and head, letting any spell you need be cast on you by your spell output array. In a worst case scenario, you can pull your appendages back to your home base and seal the portals. This would also let you wear heavy armor on the other end on your hands, legs and head, with your limbs being held an appropriate distance apart by bars of alchemetricly enhanced mithril or tin, depending on how much money you have to spend. Hope that helps!

[Quester]

Hey, can you see a kaleidomantic filter? Filter's are supposed to work like a wall of force, which is invisible, with given exceptions, none of which mention appearance. Which is weird because the only filter that would resemble the color for which its named would be black, and only because it doesn't let light pass.

[General Patton]

That works well. You would need two vacuums at least: a heat vacuum and a standard vacuum. Everyone seems to keep forgetting high speed winds break vacuum filters. Worst case scenario, it could be an ortho engine block with some type of power source (probably magnetic) and use that to increase speed beyond terminal velocity. Of course, this model of the ship requires doctorate principles, or at least magisterial if your "ship" is just a room in your castle.

A similar principle could apply to your power armor. Have your body be in a different place than your arms, legs and head, letting any spell you need be cast on you by your spell output array. In a worst case scenario, you can pull your appendages back to your home base and seal the portals. This would also let you wear heavy armor on the other end on your hands, legs and head, with your limbs being held an appropriate distance apart by bars of alchemetricly enhanced mithril or tin, depending on how much money you have to spend. Hope that helps!

If the edges of all the portals are connected without gaps and the entire inside of that space is a yellow filter vacuum chamber, then there is no contact with air, stationary or moving.

Oh my gosh, you're a genius! One of my early ideas was something similar to motion capture wireframe model thingies. Things being held at certain distances by bars of material has inspired me with a way to flesh out that other method.

First of all, our notion for the standard VCAC (vacuum chamber antigrav core) needs to be altered to include at least 8 gravity fluxes distributed evenly across it, each covering one quarter of a hemisphere. This allows for both rotation and propulsion in any directions simultaneously. The armor proxy's main VCAC will be located somewhere in the torso and act as the driving element for the motion and orientation of the whole. Tethered to this will be a number of yellow filters which hold other VCACs. These will function in a fashion comparable to ball and socket joints, albeit more flexible, in order to rotate and turn the limbs/head/etc. Continue adding these elements as you work your way down through the limbs to the smallest mobile extremities. Tether your proxy portals to these individual sub-elements and get an EI to orchestrate all of the rotating joints to correspond with your motions in the armor.

However you build the actual armor, its presence on other planes will be capable of effortlessly floating, gliding, flying and reorienting itself without resistance, with no upper speed limit. Having the actual armor in a gravity flux with some imachination effects would give you a perfect simulated environment for controlling it. Your EI can keep the armor floating in one spot, close to your helpful support stuff, while it fakes the sensation of gravity any time you need to orient yourself with the ground. Of course, you might not want to feel gravity, if maybe you're circle strafing in some crazy diagonal direction over your target, at 80 mph, while spinning, and flipping. In that case, anti-dizzy mode is totally an option too.

[jojolagger]

Just remember, 100 logical decisions per round. Meaning you'll likely want multiple EI's each in charge of specific functions, as each joint movement could end up as multiple logical decisions, and normal movement uses lots of joints.

[General Patton]

The optimal building material for this armor would likely be some alchemetricly enhanced material turned Biollurgical so it gets fast healing and can benefit from heal spells. Use a time accelerated demiplane and have your power armor control facility made out of quicksilver for quadruple time. You'll want a Dreamason to produce all the EIs and circuitry so that the circuits' bubbles protrude through the portals and expose all nearby enemies to all 4 types of Dreamcatcher. With the EIs gaining XP from this, they could all take levels in spellcasting/manifesting classes and provide you with gratuitous amounts of spells/powers in an emergency. Get input transformers overlapping the armor to eat most harmful effects. Imachination on the armor and proxy for a perfect cloaking system, including the possibility of decoys that function better than displacement. Get some xenomachinery tools for all of the ranged attack grafts built into the armor, particularly Nimbus of Light so you can ignore damage reduction. Have the inside of the proxy and your power armor control facility shielded by black filters. You could have those extendable red filter lightsabers built in as well. A bunch of other filters could probably be stacked together for perfect environmental protection.

Can anyone else think of stuff I missed? I need to implement all the things.

[Amechra]

You know, there isn't what we think of as wind in space...

[jseah]

Hmm... pushing against any material filter does not exert force on the anchoring object or position.
Therefore, filters violate conservation of momentum, aka, they can make momentum disappear simply by halting objects. =(

If you can make momentum disappear, you can make it appear.

If you can violate conservation of momentum in the sense of arbitrarily deleting momentum, removing conservation of energy is only a short step away.


Bloody hell, this is the same as the ring gates. Reactionless drives are possible... =(

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|--------O
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A yellow filter is anchored to a metal ball. A metal spring is inserted between the filter and the ball (this spring can be anything that exerts force, like a high pressure gas cylinder; the pressured cylinder is better because you can do hydraulics on it and adjust the force exerted)

Result: the metal ball goes rocketing off. The spring pushes the ball, the ball accelerates, the yellow filter moves with the ball and pushes the spring...

[Omnicrat]

How is this for a new Oneirotecture ability?

[sorry if I don't format it quite right]

Open source: Requires you have HEUR 302. While preparing HEUR 302 you can choose to not prepare an additional principle in tandem with it. Instead, anyone at a later date can choose to prepare any principle they know and is valid for Abnormal Behavior.

Also, what principles do work? For example, what constitutes an instantaneous effect? I don't see how a filter is more instantaneous than any other principle.

[Morcleon]

How does Aid Another function in regard to preparing principles? Can anyone use Aid Another to help prepare a principle? Do they have to know the principle in question? What's the limit of people that can help?

[Nanoblack]

Would it be possible to create the equivalent of a two-part engine using polar arcane fluxes to make the gravity between orthogonal engines perpendicular?

[ScionoftheVoid]

This is an absolutely incredible system. Just astounding.

Not especially inspired, but a nifty, easily-customisable use of Biollurgy:

Spoiler

Show

If you want these things to breed (I'd recommend budding if you have them do so) you need one Doctorate level principle, otherwise everything is Magisterial or lower.

Required principles: ARCD 101 and 204, BIOY 101 and 228.
Optional extras: BIOY 273, 340 and 381, ALCH 101 and 286.
Note that while the basic form is specialisation-neutral, the optional extras include specialised options for each mentioned discipline. If you want these things to breed you need to specialise in Biollurgy, if you want easy materials to make them you need to specialise in Alchemetry.

Materials required: 1 cubic foot each of gold and silver. We'll also need some spellcasting, though the highest-level spell is second. We also need to pay 50gp for a material component.
The gold is going to become a gold input transformer, while the silver is going to have two preparations of ARCD 101 to become silver outputs keyed to specific spells. One preparation will be keyed to Obscuring Mist and the other to Create Water. I think we can do this, since you can prepare the same material for multiple purposes. If this doesn't apply like this in this case we can just make a totally separate second silver output for the second spell.
Regardless, we then use BIOY 101 to make them all into biostructure and then combine them all into a single mass. We now have a single mass of either two or three cubic feet which has a gold input and two silver outputs, one keyed to Obscuring Mist and one to Create Water. Assuming I'm understanding all of this correctly.
The biostructure will inhale water vapour, we can have it exhale whatever.

Cast Continual Flame on the biostructure (you can probably do this at any point, but you may as well do it now). This guarantees two ebbs per round from the gold input, which can run both spells, setting them off every turn. It has a permanent supply of breathable "air" and of water.

Next, we make this biostructure into a chassis using BIOY 228. The details are, as mentioned, customisable, except that we then want to add two second level grafts: Wakeful Mind and Devil Eye. The former allows it to run around twenty-four hours a day and the latter allows it to see despite the gold input field. It would preferably be omnivorous, because it doesn't have an on-board food supply, but that's all it needs to function. So you have autonomous creatures running around in fields of darkness doing... whatever you equip them to do with their remaining grafts.

If you specialise in Biollurgy you can have them breed, easily making swarms of the things. If you specialise in Alchemetry you can make them out of sunmetal and silver, allowing them to deal negative levels through touch. Have a specialist of each work together and you can get a dark swarm, bringer of the wightocalypse. And that's with first or second and three third or fourth level grafts slots free for customisation. The blind- and tremor-sense grafts obviously remove the need for the Devil Eye, too.

[Necroticplague]

Seeing all the ideas everybody's coming up with want me to try and see what kind of things can be created in 8 hours, projects you can do while the rest of your party sleeps (fun fact I learned while thinking of this: Alchymetry has both the principal with the shortest (ALCH 101) and longest (Unexpected Materials) preparation times, of .5 hours and 4 hours).

[Gideon Falcon]

You know, with the whole Silver Input SR thing, I think that basing it off your ranks in the discipline's key skill is a lot less clunky than basing it off the number of principles known.

In fact, you could use ranks instead of level for any effects that need to scale with level, such as save DCs, caster level check DCs, and similar.

[Quester]

You know, with the whole Silver Input SR thing, I think that basing it off your ranks in the discipline's key skill is a lot less clunky than basing it off the number of principles known.

In fact, you could use ranks instead of level for any effects that need to scale with level, such as save DCs, caster level check DCs, and similar.

But then you have a situation were people who multi-class into gramarist have save DCs and the like being as good as pure gramarists of equal level. Granted gramarists gain a bonus to their specialty, but its still weird for a level 9 rouge/1 gramarist to make a silver input that's SR is as good as what a 10 level gramarist could make. Then again how many ebbs can go through a transformer depends on skill check to so my point may be moot.

Side note, I think pricing should be per hour, not per preparation, because as it is an alchemist would make money quicker with ALCH 101, slower with ALCH 286 and I don't even know how you price IMCH 101 if it had multiple senses.

[Omnicrat]

I don't think I've said this before, and it is a very minor thing, but Yggdratecture has to be my favorite name of the 8 specializations.

[Kellus]

Hey peoples, fantastic comments that I'll try to get to tomorrow. Busy with school, so updates are going to be slower, but I'll try to have something out every weekend. In the meantime, the shadowright is up! Enjoy!

[Silva Stormrage]

Hey peoples, fantastic comments that I'll try to get to tomorrow. Busy with school, so updates are going to be slower, but I'll try to have something out every weekend. In the meantime, the shadowright is up! Enjoy!

Hm, I like it but personally I think the special awesome capstone White Filter isn't that good. I mean can the Shadowright even produce radioactivity without an Alchemist specialist?

[General Patton]

Is Midnight Shadowsight supposed to provide the function of darkvision? That seems to be the one thing I'd expect from this class that is oddly missing.

[radmelon]

Hm, I like it but personally I think the special awesome capstone White Filter isn't that good. I mean can the Shadowright even produce radioactivity without an Alchemist specialist?

Well, I didn't notice this on my first reading, but while using Frequent Shadowsight, you expel radiomantic radiation. It also says that you can detonate as per sunmetal, but since there doesn't seem to be a way to channel ebbs into a creature, this isn't a real danger.

[Quester]

Hm, I like it but personally I think the special awesome capstone White Filter isn't that good. I mean can the Shadowright even produce radioactivity without an Alchemist specialist?

A shadowwright can produce radation from his own body by using frequent vision. Is a shadowright immune to his own radiation?

Awesome class.

[Omnicrat]

Well, I didn't notice this on my first reading, but while using Frequent Shadowsight, you expel radiomantic radiation. It also says that you can detonate as per sunmetal, but since there doesn't seem to be a way to channel ebbs into a creature, this isn't a real danger.

Well, it never says you can't use a circuit to transfer ebbs into a creature, it just wouldn't do anything... until now.

[Necroticplague]

Well, I didn't notice this on my first reading, but while using Frequent Shadowsight, you expel radiomantic radiation. It also says that you can detonate as per sunmetal, but since there doesn't seem to be a way to channel ebbs into a creature, this isn't a real danger.

Unless you're a biollurgical chassis, then you can be treated at an object that can have ebbs pumped into it. That would actually be a fairly impressive death throes, just build up a battery to store an immense amount of ebbs, then a wood output to release all of them into you and go boom. With a little bit of heuristics so it doesn't happen too early.

[radmelon]

Ooh, that is quite a nice idea.