Sub-Zero v.s Batman

[ArlEammon]

Any reference to Mortal Kombat vs DC will lead to, banning, a strongly worded LETTER. :|

Sub-Zero has been led to believe by Shang Tsung, disguised as Raiden while the Thunder god was away from his temple that a new follower of Shinnok has been found beneath Gotham City. This follower of Shinnok has been said to be highly resourceful, knowledgable of martial arts and technologically supported.

Batman has been given an hour's notice by Zatanna (actually Quan Chi in disguise) and told that an evil ninja known for possessing mystical powers over ice, and with unmatched martial prowess is now attacking the Bat Cave in order to get revenge on him for some unknown run-in with the many ninja Batman has fought in the past.

[INoKnowNames]

...............................................

I thought there was an unspoken rule that everything loses against Batman if he has at least a minute to prepare one of his special Bat items against it.

Further more, how exactly would Sub-Zero do any better against Batman than Mr. Freeze would?

I might switch sides with some convincing, but I see no reason to bet on the long shot yet. Batman seems like a sure win.

[ArlEammon]

...............................................

I thought there was an unspoken rule that everything loses against Batman if he has at least a minute to prepare one of his special Bat items against it.

Further more, how exactly would Sub-Zero do any better against Batman than Mr. Freeze would?

I might switch sides with some convincing, but I see no reason to bet on the long shot yet. Batman seems like a sure win.

Sub-Zero is a superior hand-hand combatant. That's #1 reason. Another reason is that Sub-Zero is nothing like Mr. Freeze. Batman might have one hour of preparation, but to win against opponents like the Justice League and others, he needs longer than an hour. (Or so I thought).

[INoKnowNames]

Sub-Zero is a superior hand-hand combatant. That's #1 reason. Another reason is that Sub-Zero is nothing like Mr. Freeze. Batman might have one hour of preparation, but to win against opponents like the Justice League and others, he needs longer than an hour. (Or so I thought).

I'm sure people will come in and beltch several examples, including the whole "Bane" thing, but it seems like getting within Batman's HRR* is not the best idea, and, as such, Sub-Zero is at a disadvantage compared to Mr. Freeze when it comes to types of combatants.

As for simularities, they're both ice guys. True, Victor Freeze is far more vunerable to a Bat Heat Lamp than Sub Zero, but at the same time, Sub-Zero's still defeatable by a Bat Bitch Slap, and the fact of the matter is that he could use technology in his suit to defend against Freeze to help fight Sub-Zero.

And please remember, you -are- dealing with the God Damn Batman.

*horrible rape radius, ie hand to hand with the GDB*.

*God Damn Batman.

[ArlEammon]

I'm sure people will come in and beltch several examples, including the whole "Bane" thing, but it seems like getting within Batman's HRR* is not the best idea, and, as such, Sub-Zero is at a disadvantage compared to Mr. Freeze when it comes to types of combatants.

As for simularities, they're both ice guys. True, Victor Freeze is far more vunerable to a Bat Heat Lamp than Sub Zero, but at the same time, Sub-Zero's still defeatable by a Bat Bitch Slap, and the fact of the matter is that he could use technology in his suit to defend against Freeze to help fight Sub-Zero.

And please remember, you -are- dealing with the God Damn Batman.

*horrible rape radius, ie hand to hand with the GDB*.

*God Damn Batman.

That's true. But Sub-Zero has fought and killed four God-Damn gods. :)
The Croc has got nothing on any of them.

[INoKnowNames]

That's true. But Sub-Zero has fought and killed four *mortalkombat* gods. :)
The Croc has got nothing on any of them.

Fixed for you. Don't take the title of the Goddamned Batman lightly.

And Batman's taken on far more than just the Croc. I'm sure examples of him fighting against God level enemies (including actual reality warpers, rather than just Mortal-Kombat vunerable beings shooting various flavors of lightning) can be drug up if we want to.

[ArlEammon]

Fixed for you. Don't take the title of the Goddamned Batman lightly.

And Batman's taken on far more than just the Croc. I'm sure examples of him fighting against God level enemies (including actual reality warpers, rather than just Mortal-Kombat vunerable beings shooting various flavors of lightning) can be drug up if we want to.

Yeah. How much prep did he have? An hour? Less ?

[Mando Knight]

Sub-Zero is a superior hand-hand combatant. That's #1 reason. Another reason is that Sub-Zero is nothing like Mr. Freeze. Batman might have one hour of preparation, but to win against opponents like the Justice League and others, he needs longer than an hour. (Or so I thought).

Actually, against the Justice League in particular, the lore has it so that he's already done the preparation in advance, meaning he needs all of like ten minutes, or five seconds in case of rogue Superman (Kryptonite ring, lead-lined pocket in utility belt).

With an ice-themed villain in his own rogues gallery, the Bat has de-icing equipment already (thermal Batsuit, ice-melting Bat-Grenade/pellets, etc.).

Also, the fight's happening in Gotham. Which is Batman's home... even if he doesn't have them prepared, his support vehicles are only moments away, and being pre-warned to the opponent means he can stalk him.

[ArlEammon]

Actually, against the Justice League in particular, the lore has it so that he's already done the preparation in advance, meaning he needs all of like ten minutes, or five seconds in case of rogue Superman (Kryptonite ring, lead-lined pocket in utility belt).

With an ice-themed villain in his own rogues gallery, the Bat has de-icing equipment already (thermal Batsuit, ice-melting Bat-Grenade/pellets, etc.).

Also, the fight's happening in Gotham. Which is Batman's home... even if he doesn't have them prepared, his support vehicles are only moments away, and being pre-warned to the opponent means he can stalk him.

That's something I haven't considered

[Starbuck_II]

Sub-Zero is a superior hand-hand combatant. That's #1 reason. Another reason is that Sub-Zero is nothing like Mr. Freeze. Batman might have one hour of preparation, but to win against opponents like the Justice League and others, he needs longer than an hour. (Or so I thought).

Wasn't he defeated by a bucket of water in the movie
It doesn't even have to be a evil bucket.

[Eldariel]

Wasn't he defeated by a bucket of water in the movie
It doesn't even have to be a evil bucket.

The what now?

[Mando Knight]

It does not exist. There was never a Mortal Kombat film featuring François Petit as Sub-Zero, and even if there had been, the franchise's fans would never forgive the studio if it gathered something like a 36% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Traab]

Actually, against the Justice League in particular, the lore has it so that he's already done the preparation in advance, meaning he needs all of like ten minutes, or five seconds in case of rogue Superman (Kryptonite ring, lead-lined pocket in utility belt).

With an ice-themed villain in his own rogues gallery, the Bat has de-icing equipment already (thermal Batsuit, ice-melting Bat-Grenade/pellets, etc.).

Also, the fight's happening in Gotham. Which is Batman's home... even if he doesn't have them prepared, his support vehicles are only moments away, and being pre-warned to the opponent means he can stalk him.

Yeah, but im not sure how well the mister freeze anti ice stuff would work against sub zero. I mean, isnt his ice some sort of magically manifested ice? Sort of like how superman can be struck by lightning and not even have to tuck his hair back down, but hit him with a magic bolt of lightning and he screams like a toddler that just got his lolly stolen. Different rules apply even though they look to be the same. I mean, its possible it would work the same, but its hard to say. Also, sub zero is an incredibly skilled assassin. I dont think batman can expect to just waltz on up and track him down without getting caught. He may be the goddamn batman, but subzero is a goddamn mystical ninja.

[ArlEammon]

. He may be the goddamn batman, but subzero is a goddamn mystical ninja.

Lin-Kuei! ::Freezes Traab::

[Raimun]

Batman wins.

Why?

Because I'm Batman!

[JCarter426]

Forget about Freeze. Killer Frost. Comparable powers, defeated by Batman more than once. She might not be a ninja, but she's called "Killer" for a reason. Plus, Batman has defeated ninja anyway.

[Coidzor]

He's got an hour to prepare with all of his technology and tools near to hand. Sub-Zeros' martial skills are something Batman has dealt with before, even if it's not necessarily that fighting style.

Sub-Zero's mystical ice powers, meh. He's dealt with freeze rays and magic powers.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, but im not sure how well the mister freeze anti ice stuff would work against sub zero. I mean, isnt his ice some sort of magically manifested ice? Sort of like how superman can be struck by lightning and not even have to tuck his hair back down, but hit him with a magic bolt of lightning and he screams like a toddler that just got his lolly stolen. Different rules apply even though they look to be the same. I mean, its possible it would work the same, but its hard to say. Also, sub zero is an incredibly skilled assassin. I dont think batman can expect to just waltz on up and track him down without getting caught. He may be the goddamn batman, but subzero is a goddamn mystical ninja.

It doesn't really matter if they function the same, though, because their end effects are the same - ice/cold - and that's what Batman's defenses are already designed to protect against. Ice is ice, whether it was magically manifested or technologically condensed; Superman is a special case because he specifically has a weakness to magic, Batman's anti-ice precautions aren't specifically 'anti-tech-made-ice'. If it's decided that Subzero's ice is colder than Mr. Freeze's ice, said defenses might be less effective, but they won't just fail to function entirely in the face of magic.

[KnightDisciple]

It doesn't really matter if they function the same, though, because their end effects are the same - ice/cold - and that's what Batman's defenses are already designed to protect against. Ice is ice, whether it was magically manifested or technologically condensed; Superman is a special case because he specifically has a weakness to magic, Batman's anti-ice precautions aren't specifically 'anti-tech-made-ice'. If it's decided that Subzero's ice is colder than Mr. Freeze's ice, said defenses might be less effective, but they won't just fail to function entirely in the face of magic.

More than that, consider that while it's theoretically possible Sub-Zero's ice temp might be colder than Freeze's (which is...not guaranteed), he's never really shown to put out ice with the same volume. Freeze casually ices over large areas within a few seconds of continuous fire. SZ seems to fire a single small bolt, and needs a "wind-up" for that.

It will take Batman more than a few seconds, but I don't really see this not being a win, especially with the warning he gets.

[Mando Knight]

Also, sub zero is an incredibly skilled assassin. I dont think batman can expect to just waltz on up and track him down without getting caught. He may be the goddamn batman, but subzero is a goddamn mystical ninja.

But Sub-Zero would be trying to assassinate the goddamn Batman in his own home city. In Gotham, you don't find Batman, he finds you.

[Coidzor]

But Sub-Zero would be trying to assassinate the goddamn Batman in his own home city. In Gotham, you don't find Batman, he finds you.

Worse, he's assaulting the goddamn Batman in his lair and Batman knows about it in advance. Call me crazy, but i seem to recall Batman had some level of security on the Batcave and it's where he keeps a lot of his nifty toys that he uses to rig up traps, so that's... a lot of unnecessary advantage.

[INoKnowNames]

Worse, he's assaulting the goddamn Batman in his lair and Batman knows about it in advance. Call me crazy, but i seem to recall Batman had some level of security on the Batcave and it's where he keeps a lot of his nifty toys that he uses to rig up traps, so that's... a lot of unnecessary advantage.

.... My arguements and thoughts have been just over Batman going to Outworld to deal with a Ninja threat.

Sub Zero's going to -Gotham-, to -THE BATCAVE-, AND HE'S GOING TO FIGHT BATMAN INSIDE IT!?!

It's already a massive advantage without a freaking Home Field advantage, but with it, it's a 0-100% win in the favor of the Goddamned Batman.

I see no possible way to continue the conversation on our end without a significant rethought of the fight's options or information added that I certainly can't think of. I hardly see Batman needing to prepare much to face an Ice based Enemy vunerable to a Monk beating his ass. And said ass is being -delivered- to the worst possible place. Sub-Zero would have a better chance fighting in a Volcano.

[Hopeless]

.... My arguements and thoughts have been just over Batman going to Outworld to deal with a Ninja threat.
Sub Zero's going to -Gotham-, to -THE BATCAVE-, AND HE'S GOING TO FIGHT BATMAN INSIDE IT!?!
It's already a massive advantage without a freaking Home Field advantage, but with it, it's a 0-100% win in the favor of the Goddamned Batman.
I see no possible way to continue the conversation on our end without a significant rethought of the fight's options or information added that I certainly can't think of. I hardly see Batman needing to prepare much to face an Ice based Enemy vunerable to a Monk beating his ass. And said ass is being -delivered- to the worst possible place. Sub-Zero would have a better chance fighting in a Volcano.

If it helps Count Dracula, the vampire tried to pull this off and needless to say he'd (posthumously) agree with your findings!

[Traab]

Hmph, Subzero has had an hour to transform batmans lair into an iceberg. They are basically fighting in an underground antartica. Im sure batman has tons of toys that would help.... if they werent buried under 10 feet of ice already. Batman may have an hour to prepare, but he only has the gear on him, or at other satellite locations of gotham to work with.

Remember, thats the setup, Subzero starts off with an hour in the batcave, while batman gets an hour to prepare outside of it. All his primary goodies are in the cave. Yes he has his backup secret lairs, but thats all secondary gear. So while normally I would agree with the whole, "WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING HIM IN THE BATCAVE?!" school of thought, in this case that advantage is greatly negated by the fact that it has been transformed into a winter wonderland, all traps and security devices have been engulfed by too much ice to melt easily, no secret passages that can be opened, and the terrain is now one that I would think gives sub zero the advantage.

[KillianHawkeye]

Hmph, Subzero has had an hour to transform batmans lair into an iceberg. They are basically fighting in an underground antartica. Im sure batman has tons of toys that would help.... if they werent buried under 10 feet of ice already. Batman may have an hour to prepare, but he only has the gear on him, or at other satellite locations of gotham to work with.

Remember, thats the setup, Subzero starts off with an hour in the batcave, while batman gets an hour to prepare outside of it. All his primary goodies are in the cave. Yes he has his backup secret lairs, but thats all secondary gear. So while normally I would agree with the whole, "WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING HIM IN THE BATCAVE?!" school of thought, in this case that advantage is greatly negated by the fact that it has been transformed into a winter wonderland, all traps and security devices have been engulfed by too much ice to melt easily, no secret passages that can be opened, and the terrain is now one that I would think gives sub zero the advantage.

I don't think it's clear from the OP to assume that Sub-Zero has an hour of free reign in the freakin' Bat Cave to turn the place into frozen Christmas-land. I strongly disagree with your reading.

[Aasimar]

Not only do I proclaim this an obvious win for Batman with a dismissive shrug. I'll go so far as to suggest that the matchup would only even be proposed as something other than a slam-dunk by a die-hard Sub-Zero fan.

[The Glyphstone]

Hmph, Subzero has had an hour to transform batmans lair into an iceberg. They are basically fighting in an underground antartica. Im sure batman has tons of toys that would help.... if they werent buried under 10 feet of ice already. Batman may have an hour to prepare, but he only has the gear on him, or at other satellite locations of gotham to work with.

Remember, thats the setup, Subzero starts off with an hour in the batcave, while batman gets an hour to prepare outside of it. All his primary goodies are in the cave. Yes he has his backup secret lairs, but thats all secondary gear. So while normally I would agree with the whole, "WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING HIM IN THE BATCAVE?!" school of thought, in this case that advantage is greatly negated by the fact that it has been transformed into a winter wonderland, all traps and security devices have been engulfed by too much ice to melt easily, no secret passages that can be opened, and the terrain is now one that I would think gives sub zero the advantage.

How did you possibly even begin to get this idea from the OP?

[Starbuck_II]

Worse, he's assaulting the goddamn Batman in his lair and Batman knows about it in advance. Call me crazy, but i seem to recall Batman had some level of security on the Batcave and it's where he keeps a lot of his nifty toys that he uses to rig up traps, so that's... a lot of unnecessary advantage.

He's been beaten in his home when he was forced to stay Bruce Wayne due to keep identity.
So if we assume a party at his mansion, Sub-Zero (if he knows his identity) can win.

[Mando Knight]

Remember, thats the setup, Subzero starts off with an hour in the batcave, while batman gets an hour to prepare outside of it. All his primary goodies are in the cave. Yes he has his backup secret lairs, but thats all secondary gear. So while normally I would agree with the whole, "WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING HIM IN THE BATCAVE?!" school of thought, in this case that advantage is greatly negated by the fact that it has been transformed into a winter wonderland, all traps and security devices have been engulfed by too much ice to melt easily, no secret passages that can be opened, and the terrain is now one that I would think gives sub zero the advantage.

Sub-Zero has not been given an hour in the Bat-Cave. Batman's been given an hour's advance warning that Sub-Zero will attack the Bat-Cave.

How he finds it is beyond me, since it's been very rare that Batman's Gotham-native nemeses have been able to find it. Even then, the Bat-Cave won't get to be frozen over in an hour of tranquility... you invade the Cave, the Bat is immediately notified. And his security systems likely automatically activate.

[SDF]

Batman has been given an hour's notice

I don't understand how there can be any debate over the outcome after this.