LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles

[Mutant Sheep]

SiuiS, Arachu, Musashi: You and others who were interested in that subtopic from about pages 23-24 may be interested in an article on Gawker from September 7th, 2012 10:30 AM by Cord Jefferson. I won't link between the necessary TRIGGER WARNING and having been unable to finish the article, though. You might find it of interest or just something that will make you rage harder than you've ever raged, though.

Still... digesting what I have read and working up the intestinal fortitude to finish.

I think the beginning of said article is a bit... uhh... completely unneccessary dear god , but it is an interesting academic look. Ignoring the first paragraph, its pretty reasonable and actually kinda logical. Food for thought, at least.

[Lord Raziere]

I wish I could be a shapeshifter. That'd be sweet~ X3

*Hugs* Wanna talk about it?


~Bianca

The problem with shapeshifting:

with one person it'd probably be fun, a group of people? even more fun.

but an entire society would probably be downright paranoid. everyone being a shapeshifter? how could you keep friends and families together? how would hold anyone accountable for anything when they can shapeshift into anyone they hate and do whatever they want?

I know, kinda from a few pages back….but whatever I'm talking about it.

how could you trust anyone? anyone could be anyone else. your identity would be changeable as clothes. it would just be too complicated. I don't think humanity could handle it.

so I'm thinking: unless you want to talk about a society of shapeshifters, I'd suggest confining the conversation to group-scale shapeshifter endeavors. what do you think the kind of fun things you could do with shapeshifting? I'd figure out what the exact opposite of my appearance would be and just walk around, judging peoples reactions to my exact opposite appearance. or gender of course.
and depending on how extensive the shapeshifting would be, you could always shapeshift into an animal like a bird or cat and experience what life would be like as them for a while.
on the other end you could always just make slight adjustments in your appearance to endlessly improve your "default" appearance until its your ideal self.

[SiuiS]

We shall have to disagree for now, yes. My only programming involving the subject is predatory. We would have to quibble over legitimate prey, reasonable doubt, etc.

The problem with shapeshifting:

with one person it'd probably be fun, a group of people? even more fun.

but an entire society would probably be downright paranoid. everyone being a shapeshifter? how could you keep friends and families together? how would hold anyone accountable for anything when they can shapeshift into anyone they hate and do whatever they want?

I know, kinda from a few pages back….but whatever I'm talking about it.

how could you trust anyone? anyone could be anyone else. your identity would be changeable as clothes. it would just be too complicated. I don't think humanity could handle it.

It's actually not that bad a deal. Either A) people would have obvious cues, and you wouldn't know Bill from bob by features but by body language and mannerisms, or B) the society wouldn't put quite so much emphasis on certain familial traits. I know that I know who my family is by having met and interacted with them. They range the gamut looks wise.

[Arachu]

The problem with shapeshifting:

with one person it'd probably be fun, a group of people? even more fun.

but an entire society would probably be downright paranoid. everyone being a shapeshifter? how could you keep friends and families together? how would hold anyone accountable for anything when they can shapeshift into anyone they hate and do whatever they want?

I know, kinda from a few pages back….but whatever I'm talking about it.

how could you trust anyone? anyone could be anyone else. your identity would be changeable as clothes. it would just be too complicated. I don't think humanity could handle it.

so I'm thinking: unless you want to talk about a society of shapeshifters, I'd suggest confining the conversation to group-scale shapeshifter endeavors. what do you think the kind of fun things you could do with shapeshifting? I'd figure out what the exact opposite of my appearance would be and just walk around, judging peoples reactions to my exact opposite appearance. or gender of course.
and depending on how extensive the shapeshifting would be, you could always shapeshift into an animal like a bird or cat and experience what life would be like as them for a while.
on the other end you could always just make slight adjustments in your appearance to endlessly improve your "default" appearance until its your ideal self.

I imagine we'd find other ways to identify each other, like SiuiS pointed out (eventually; it would be total anarchy for a couple of months/years/decades there )... And that impersonation-related crimes would receive much more severe punishments. @.@

We shall have to disagree for now, yes. My only programming involving the subject is predatory. We would have to quibble over legitimate prey, reasonable doubt, etc.

*Hugs~*


~Bianca

[pffh]

Another problem with shapeshifting is that once you shift you can never go back to your old form. You can try to go back but you'll always look like what you think you looked like not what you actually looked like. Now imagine if you have a very skewed image of your body say for example because of low self esteem, that's not going to end well.

[Coidzor]

Another problem with shapeshifting is that once you shift you can never go back to your old form. You can try to go back but you'll always look like what you think you looked like not what you actually looked like. Now imagine if you have a very skewed image of your body say for example because of low self esteem, that's not going to end well.

Not necessarily, shapeshifting could just come bundled with a "revert" function. One of those implied/component powers.

We shall have to disagree for now, yes. My only programming involving the subject is predatory. We would have to quibble over legitimate prey, reasonable doubt, etc.

Now I'm curious, what about getting stripped and dropped near a pride of lions as an overly elaborate execution method?

[Lord Raziere]

It's actually not that bad a deal. Either A) people would have obvious cues, and you wouldn't know Bill from bob by features but by body language and mannerisms, or B) the society wouldn't put quite so much emphasis on certain familial traits. I know that I know who my family is by having met and interacted with them. They range the gamut looks wise.

A) this works fine, until you come up against people who are socially blind to body language and mannerisms. It might have to become law for everyone to wear nametags in plain view and institute very severe punishments for losing, switching or generally tampering with them….

[Mina Kobold]

Tangentially, there is actually a portion of humanity who cannot recognise faces. Perhaps that would be the equivalent of shapeshifter social blindness in our current world?

I think that stricter rules about identity theft and identification would need to be in place in a shapeshifter society, but it might be doable. Though it would radically alter the nature of personal identity and capabilities, it would be amazing to see the possibilities. Especially if it extended to different species, though that might be dangerous for the brain.

On the note of losing your original body: I think we always have had that problem. Humans change and grow for every moment that passes, through age, puberty, wounds or self-chosen changes. To be able to choose those for yourself seems a lot more fun than being stuck on a rail. ^_^

[lsfreak]

God I suck at this.

Spoilered for OLD. Because I suck at this.

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So, while browsing through DeviantArt, I noticed sort of a fight between bisexuals and pansexuals:
-snip-

I prefer pan just because I don't want to impose on someone who is bi as in "two, cismen and ciswomen." I don't think I've ever met someone like that, but precautionarily. Course, "pan" doesn't mean equality either, so maybe bi should just encompass everyone, with the big bold caveat that it's not equal across the whole sex/gender spectrum (which seems to be a really annoying assumption among those in hetero-predominant circles).

Something about a "pulse of heat that crystallizes hair at the root"? Iunno, sounds just sciencey enough to work.

Or sciencey enough to maim you. >.>

I'd be willing to try. If it worked I'd even be able to go clean-shaven. The reason I use a trimmer instead of a razor is because razors irritate my skin. So I have perpetual stubble.

I can normally shave without any shaving cream - just shave in the shower and the moisture is enough. But I got lazy, didn't shave, and got used to looking at myself in a mirror with stubble. Now it's a trimmer every 4-5 days. If I were significantly more mean-spirited, I'd probably come across like I was trying to be a Sin City antihero.

On evolution, birth order, and gay:
An interesting thing that I have no idea if there is any academic anything on, is that more older brothers = higher changes of being gay. This pairs up somewhat with K-strategy: in times of plenty, I would guess there's more children, and so you end up with more gay people. If the times of plenty are long-lived, this means more non-parent adults to help with the increased population; if they are short-lived, it also means less children born into a tribe that's struggling to survive. You'd also end up with more males bonding with each other rather than fighting each other for dominance (assuming ancient humans tended to be patriarchal in hierarchy, which is probably quite the assumption). In times of scarcity, there's also higher chances of heterosexual offspring to keep the group going.

Homosexuality and childhood abuse:
I have not looked deeply into the studies; are they actually showing homosexuality as a reaction to abuse, or can they tell which is more likely the trigger and which is the reaction?

Side note: In game-chat, I distinguish people by the first couple letters of their name. In forums, it's avatars. I keep getting SiuiS and noparlpf mixed up, and I'm going to have fun if any of the regular posts does a major avatar-switch

Hugs to anyone who wants them

[SiuiS]

EDIT: I think this quote from the article itself sums up my thoughts.

You are not guilty because of your sexual desire, but you are responsible for your sexual behavior.

Although I have to wonder at anything sciencey that claims left handedness is a mental deficiency...

Another problem with shapeshifting is that once you shift you can never go back to your old form. You can try to go back but you'll always look like what you think you looked like not what you actually looked like. Now imagine if you have a very skewed image of your body say for example because of low self esteem, that's not going to end well.

Unsure. If shifting is an active change, then it becomes like flexing a
Muscle, and when you relax it goes back to "normal". Contrary to mother's statements, my face will not stay that way.

Now I'm curious, what about getting stripped and dropped near a pride of lions as an overly elaborate execution method?

As much the lion's fault as the guillotine blade's. The people involved, who threw you makes and defenseless into a lion put have conspire to commit murder. I the lions get you they will have succeeded.

The lions, for their part, may just want tow care you out I their territory. If they need the meal, consider it one last "sticking. It to the universe" with a final good deed

My ponythread conversations and this one are blending. Should I be frightened?

A) this works fine, until you come up against people who are socially blind to body language and mannerisms. It might have to become law for everyone to wear nametags in plain view and institute very severe punishments for losing, switching or generally tampering with them…

I don't know. People who are socially blind to body language and mannerisms, and speech patterns, might become easier victims, but I don't see that having far-reaching consequences, nor do I see that trait being passed along successfully in a society of shapeshifters. Especially since odds are you won't select mates base on beauty.

There are people who are currently more mentally susceptible to guile. they are guarded more diligently by those who care. And on the the add of things... Odds are they won't be more likely to be criminals, aince they couldn't change their mannerisms enough to disguise themselves. They would be blind to their own tells, like a strange version of cuckold horns.

God I suck at this.

Spoilered for OLD. Because I suck at this.

Heh. No worries~

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I prefer pan just because I don't want to impose on someone who is bi as in "two, cismen and ciswomen." I don't think I've ever met someone like that, but precautionarily. Course, "pan" doesn't mean equality either, so maybe bi should just encompass everyone, with the big bold caveat that it's not equal across the whole sex/gender spectrum (which seems to be a really annoying assumption among those in hetero-predominant circles).

You prefer to use, or be called, pan? I'm guessing the first.

And you mean it's often assumed that bisexuals don't have a preference? That makes sense actually. Hmm.

I can normally shave without any shaving cream - just shave in the shower and the moisture is enough. But I got lazy, didn't shave, and got used to looking at myself in a mirror with stubble. Now it's a trimmer every 4-5 days. If I were significantly more mean-spirited, I'd probably come across like I was trying to be a Sin City antihero.

D=
I am impressed. If I shave in the shower, I end up with immediate stubble, and patches - because I has no mirror, and the waterlogged skin will eventually return to its normal size and expose the hair I didn't get.

Homosexuality and childhood abuse:
I have not looked deeply into the studies; are they actually showing homosexuality as a reaction to abuse, or can they tell which is more likely the trigger and which is the reaction?

I don't think they can tell. I think it is currently purely a statistic. Of X number of homosexual boys, an arbitrarily high percent were abused. Or something.

Side note: In game-chat, I distinguish people by the first couple letters of their name. In forums, it's avatars. I keep getting SiuiS and noparlpf mixed up, and I'm going to have fun if any of the regular posts does a major avatar-switch

Hugs to anyone who wants them

Yay hugs~!
I was going to switch back to my unicorn, so folks would know who I was drawing, but I know in pretty much every other thread I've posted in, excessive pony avatar appearance causes rage!quit. >_<

[lsfreak]

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You prefer to use, or be called, pan? I'm guessing the first.

Well, when I use a label for me, I use pan. Unless it's in company that won't understand. It's usually just "I prefer men," because it's immediate understanding while avoiding "bi means you like guys and girls equally," which yes is an assumption many people have, or "you're attracted to kitchenware?"

D=
I am impressed. If I shave in the shower, I end up with immediate stubble, and patches - because I has no mirror, and the waterlogged skin will eventually return to its normal size and expose the hair I didn't get.

I run my hands over my face to tell what needs cut closer, and yes it leaves a little stubble, but only a couple hour's worth for me, which wasn't enough to worry about when I'd shave every 2-3 days. I sometimes needed to touch up sideburns with a mirror, but other than that. I also found I didn't get as much razorburn shaving in the shower compared to after, though not being cheap and actually buying shaving cream would probably help there
It also means I can shave in the dark, if I've just showered. I'm a man of many weird talents.

[KenderWizard]

(Is "explied" a word if "implied" is?)

It should be!

I can see where that makes sense, but it doesn't account for bisexuals or asexuals... Unless maybe the former's a 'codominant' sort of thing?

I'm definitely codominant, babe.

Well, you know, if we just figured out the right way to spin that we might even be able to use the bigots constructively to help stamp out child abuse.

Ok, so it would never work, but it's an interesting thought. ...Right?

Oh yeah, like the way all the anti-abortion campaigners put so much effort into ensuring sex education and contraception are freely available to all, especially vulnerable teens? That was awesome. Sigh.

Another problem with shapeshifting is that once you shift you can never go back to your old form. You can try to go back but you'll always look like what you think you looked like not what you actually looked like. Now imagine if you have a very skewed image of your body say for example because of low self esteem, that's not going to end well.

Well, yeah, if you don't have a revert, you'll do that, but then you can just check in the mirror, and "fix" yourself to look better. I think appearance insecurity would die out pretty immediately.

Side note: In game-chat, I distinguish people by the first couple letters of their name. In forums, it's avatars. I keep getting SiuiS and noparlpf mixed up, and I'm going to have fun if any of the regular posts does a major avatar-switch

I'm exactly the same, as I've said before in here. One time, Kneenibble and Succubus (I think) swapped avatars and my brain exploded.

[noparlpf]

SiuiS, Arachu, Musashi: You and others who were interested in that subtopic from about pages 23-24 may be interested in an article on Gawker from September 7th, 2012 10:30 AM by Cord Jefferson. I won't link between the necessary TRIGGER WARNING and having been unable to finish the article, though. You might find it of interest or just something that will make you rage harder than you've ever raged, though.

Still... digesting what I have read and working up the intestinal fortitude to finish.

Interesting article, but when I tried to open the PDF on handedness in my browser the whole thing exploded and tried to open infinite tabs, I had to change settings, and then I had to open it in Adobe Reader instead.

Side note: In game-chat, I distinguish people by the first couple letters of their name. In forums, it's avatars. I keep getting SiuiS and noparlpf mixed up, and I'm going to have fun if any of the regular posts does a major avatar-switch

I get so confused when somebody changes an avatar. Especially if they don't have a gender tag, then I tend to forget what gender they are over time, and eventually assume it matches their avatar's, and then I feel bad, and besides half the time I end up wrong.

[Zorg]

So I came out to my brother and sister-in-law today, and it went very well ^_^

Next up, parents - but that's not for a couple of weeks yet, and it's a lot less intimidating with the first family memeber out of the way.

[noparlpf]

So I came out to my brother and sister-in-law today, and it went very well ^_^

Next up, parents - but that's not for a couple of weeks yet, and it's a lot less intimidating with the first family memeber out of the way.

Congratulations! Good luck with the parents.

[Asta Kask]

So I came out to my brother and sister-in-law today, and it went very well ^_^

Next up, parents - but that's not for a couple of weeks yet, and it's a lot less intimidating with the first family memeber out of the way.

Congrats! You only need a few more and you'll level up!

[Mina Kobold]

So I came out to my brother and sister-in-law today, and it went very well ^_^

Next up, parents - but that's not for a couple of weeks yet, and it's a lot less intimidating with the first family memeber out of the way.

Congratulations! I hope the rest goes just as well.

And your avatar still makes me so curious about Mass Effect. Why must there be so long till Yuletide! >_<

@nope: I need to have a more representative avatar, then. But how would I make an avatar look genderqueer... Cthulhu-bold perhaps? :3

[Astrella]

Congratulations, Zorg! What were their reactions like?

Oh yeah, like the way all the anti-abortion campaigners put so much effort into ensuring sex education and contraception are freely available to all, especially vulnerable teens? That was awesome. Sigh.

Well, that would involve caring about quality of life as well now, wouldn't it. /cynic

[Zorg]

To all - thanks for the encouragement, it is most heartening that it went smoothly.

@ Keveak - I just hope it lives up to the hype!

@ Astrella - Initial reactions would be something like this:

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but they recovered quickly

[pffh]

@ Astrella - Initial reactions would be something like this:

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but they recovered quickly

That is indeed a confusing question since you would think the correct answer is Fjarðabyggð but it's actually Hafnarfjörður.

[Absol197]

So I came out to my brother and sister-in-law today, and it went very well ^_^

Next up, parents - but that's not for a couple of weeks yet, and it's a lot less intimidating with the first family memeber out of the way.

Yay! I'm so happy for you! Hopefully your parents take it just as well!

I can't wait until I can get to that point.

I wish you the best of luck with your parents when you get there!

[Anethiel]

I just finished reading this journalistic investigation about reparative therapies. (More specifically, about a "preemptive" reparative therapy on a feminine 5-year old.)
I am too emotionally weakened to comment on it, but I thought I'd leave it here for anyone who wants to read it.

What Are Little Boys Made Of?

[Coidzor]

My ponythread conversations and this one are blending. Should I be frightened?

Depends upon whether apotheosis is frightening or exhilarating for you, I suppose?

I don't think they can tell. I think it is currently purely a statistic. Of X number of homosexual boys, an arbitrarily high percent were abused. Or something.

I think right now all they have is the correlation that a significant percentage of homosexual adult men had experienced childhood abuse, and not the kind that one gets for being a gay kid.

[Lentrax]

To all - thanks for the encouragement, it is most heartening that it went smoothly.

@ Keveak - I just hope it lives up to the hype!

@ Astrella - Initial reactions would be something like this:

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but they recovered quickly

Ahh the buggeyed, "Whaaat?"

Always an awesome reaction, I think to any random conversation starter.

"I freeze-dried my cat today."
"Whaaat?"


Seriously though, I want to congratulate you on overcoming your latest hurdle.

And good luck with the next!

[Asta Kask]

I just finished reading this journalistic investigation about reparative therapies. I am too emotionally weakened to comment on it, but I thought I'd leave it here for anyone who wants to read it.

What Are Little Boys Made Of?

A cure that doesn't work for a problem that does not exist.

[Absol197]

I just finished reading this journalistic investigation about reparative therapies. I am too emotionally weakened to comment on it, but I thought I'd leave it here for anyone who wants to read it.

What Are Little Boys Made Of?

I don't...Why?

I just can't understand why people do things like that.

Or why I still read them, even though I know how these things make me feel.

[Coidzor]

I have to admit I've been rather curious as to what do they do these days... Is it still the somehow legally sanctioned torture and beating of children/young adults of the past?

[Anethiel]

I've edited my previous post to clarify what the article is about.

[Asta Kask]

I don't...Why?

I just can't understand why people do things like that.

Or why I still read them, even though I know how these things make me feel.

There's no shortage of ideologies that teach that anything outside of a narrowly defined norm is somehow 'wrong'. It's hard to accept that good people can do bad things, but it's the truth. To stop that we need to start exercising conversational intolerance. How do we react if someone comes in and explains that since Sagittarius is rising he can't leave the house? We may not say anything openly, but we silently cross them off the list of people to ask for advice or take seriously. We need to get people to do the do homo- or transphobes.

Here's what whatstheharm has to say about reparative therapy.

[noparlpf]

What's up with our culture? If you Google anything to do with eye colour or hair colour at least 90% of the pictures are of women. (And several of them are naked...I guess that's why Safe Search exists.)