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2012-09-02, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Tarquin has a back up weapon. I know this with great certanty because the man carries a dagger some where easy to get to in his own stadium, with hundreds of guards running around and a red dragon too, all willing and ready to help him if need be. Now he's on an adventure, knowing he's headed into a dungeon or some other place that will involve lots of combat with only 5 people to support him. He has that dagger stashed some where on his body, or prehapse something better than a dagger. Is it really that hard to believe?
Last edited by Felixc-91; 2012-09-02 at 10:45 PM.
Impossible is a biased statement.
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
link to the thread translating Haley's babel speech
this is a must read for all: Common misconceptions (i am in no way joking, please read it)
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2012-09-02, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
its guaranteed Nale would die, only way to save nale is by sacrificing his weapon, theres no scenario to keep both so he etiher sacrifice Nale (and lose any shot at getting info on the gates) or sack his axe (and be forced to retreat)
the Axe he can get back or get a back up the Nale he cannot
Tarquin has a back up weapon. I know this with great certanty because the man carries a dagger some where easy to get to in his own stadium, with hundreds of guards running around and a red dragon too, all willing and ready to help him if need be. Now he's on an adventure, knowing he's headed into a dungeon or some other place that will involve lots of combat with only 5 people to support him. He has that dagger stashed some where on his body, or prehapse something better than a dagger. Is it really that hard to believe?
and assuming he does have a back up axe its possible that its not as enchanted as his current one which could have special enhancements he couldnt get on other Axes for some reason (like Roys current sword is irreplaceable due to the starmetal in it that he cant get more of)Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-02 at 10:53 PM.
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2012-09-02, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
While the weapon-specific feats are good feats, there are plenty of good feats that are not weapon-specific. And given that Tarquin seems like the sort of person who wants to be ready for anything, I think it's unlikely he would build in such a way that he's crippled by not having his favored weapon. Yes, losing a nice axe is never helpful, but most of the impressive things he's done in combat to date don't involve the axe at all.
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2012-09-03, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Assuming Tarquin is an 18th level fighter, he'll have, what? 18 Feats*? Given what we've seen so far, I think it's a fair assumption that Tarquin has a diverse set of Feats which give him a broad versatility vs. a narrow char-ops type optimization. Heck, even with a focus on a specific weapon there's only so many feats you can invest in it.
*
10 Fighter Bonus Feats
+1 Human
+1 Alive
And +6 leveling feats? Books not handy, and SRD won't give leveling information. Is it one at 3rd/6th/9th/etc?Last edited by Stella; 2012-09-03 at 12:27 AM.
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2012-09-03, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
the only impressive combat feats weve seen from him was his fight against the Order which he had his Axe then, his fight against the chick should be ignored since shes almsot undoubtably low level, and Elan is not only lower level then tarquin but most of his levels are in a class that is not good in melee fighting and the rest of his levels were being negated by his tactic
not having his axe may not decrease his defensive abilitys but he has no offensive ability anymore a dagger isnt going to do enough damage for Roy to actually care
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2012-09-03, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
We saw him fighting quite proficiently with a dagger here (and onward), remember?
Exactly. There's a fair few feats that can apply to all slashing weapons, actually, which would work for the axe + the dagger + any other slashing weapons he can stash wherever.
Your feat-math is right (assuming the +1 Alive is meaning the standard one at first level). And to be fair, we don't know that he's a single-classed fighter - a lot of what he does could also be explained by one of the ToB classes, for example. Oh, and you can get a massive number of weapon-specific or weapon-type-specific feats, more than any non-epic character could fit in, if you're looking at core + Complete Warrior + PHBII.
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2012-09-03, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-03, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2012-09-03, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
If he was really as much weaker without his axe as you seem to think he is then he wouldn't go anywhere without it, would he? Tarquin is smart and prepared for most things, he's not going to deliberately cripple himself by either (a) not having his best weapon to hand at all times when possible or (b) speccing himself in such a way that he's only any good with one particular weapon.
Oh, and you haven't answered Sorator's point that we've seen Tarquin hold off Elan (who is much better at martial things than Nale, what with Dashing Swordsman and all) using just a dagger...
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2012-09-03, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
This.
Ok, I don't know what's worse, honestly.
If those who immediately scream "DEUS EX MACHINA!!!" for every. Single. Event. ...that takes place in this strip...
... or those who everytime search for new elaborate ways to phrase the rather simple (and sad) concept of "I like this guy because he always wins".Last edited by ManuelSacha; 2012-09-03 at 01:44 AM.
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2012-09-03, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
i didnt realize Bards were such a melee centric class (or did you forget that Tarquin was countering Elans puns?)
plus as i said, Tarquin becomes weaker OFFENSIVELY (his defensive ability likely doesnt change) so his strategy of being defenisve and slowly wittling away his opponents simply wont work because Durkon could easily keep Roy on his feet if hes only getting pricked by a dagger
im not too versed in 3.5, but im pretty sure a great axe does more damage then a dagger
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2012-09-03, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I seem to recall him being run out of some kingdom a while back. Running for his very life. And didn't he just decide to take a runner rather than fighting the Order-minus-Wizard-of-Supreme-Arcane-Power?
Doesn't seem much like the guy always wins. But maybe that's just me.
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2012-09-03, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I think he was doing that to save his son.
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2012-09-03, 05:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I think people are overthinking the whole Tarquin knowing DSL thing. The barebones of the comic is that the Guild retreat. If he didn't know DSL he'd have probably written a note for Z to read or similar. Doing it this way allows for Tarquin to make a few jokes while they prepare to depart.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2012-09-03, 07:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Forikroder, your argument that Tarquin's combat ability must necessarily be dependent on the axe he just threw before teleporting away is insupportable. And watching the goalposts move from "being a fighter* means he must have tons of feats dedicated to that specific weapon which he had in storage until recently, like Roy does to his ancestral sword" to, "I'm pretty sure a greataxe does more damage than a dagger (as if we have proof that the only weapon Tarquin has on him now is a dagger)," I'm pretty sure you know it's insupportable.
*As if we had proof that Tarquin is a single-classed fighter. Understand, I very much hope he is a single-classed fighter rather than a knight or a factotum or some such goofiness...I just don't confuse "hope" with "have evidence."Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-03 at 09:10 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-09-03, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Hehe, "unbalanced".
Hehe, "drinking fountain".
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2012-09-03, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Though one could plausibly make the case that without the axe Tarquin will be weakened, at least in the immediate future. Perhaps by a lot, perhaps by a minor amount. But he will be worse off.
Sadly we cannot confirm how much or little without seeing any more evidenceIf I cared about this, I would probably do something about it.
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2012-09-03, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I'm pretty sure the axe will go *pop* in the next strip, returning to its owner.
Mantis probably shouldn't be invited to any tea parties until the strip is out, just for good measure.Playing Magic? Interested in trading? Try Pucatrade!
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2012-09-03, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-03, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Is there any reason (PC only?) Tarquin couldn't have a bag of holding? While I'm sure he'd still keep a small hold out weapon like a dagger on hand at all times for use in the middle of a fight in case he lost his main weapon couldn't he have an assortment of other "main" weapons in a BoH so that he could quickly replace a lost one in between battles?
I'm just wondering since I play the various Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest games a lot and that's what I do. If my weapon is stolen or broken in a battle then as soon as that fight is done I equip a replacement.
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2012-09-03, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-03, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
If he did, it could only contain bludgeoning weapons with no points or sharp edges. A bag of holding can rupture if anything sharp pierces it, either from the inside or out. Once a bag ruptures, it's contents are lost forever. So he could have a club or maybe a mace in a bag of holding, but not a backup ax or anything.
Edit: Actually, it's Tarquin. He probably just has a spare ax with a removable safety guard fastened to the sharp edges.Last edited by rgrekejin; 2012-09-03 at 10:09 AM.
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2012-09-03, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Knowing how to pun-duel counts as impressive, given how rare it is.
As for the fight with the Order, tripping Roy, catching Haley's arrow and stabbing Belkar with it, and throwing Durkon did not rely on the axe. For two of them, the axe was a hindrance, as he had to remove a hand from it. So he's clearly capable of impressive maneuvers without the axe.
Yes, his offense is probably reduced. No, he is probably not "severely gimped".
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2012-09-03, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=305
Note the words, "he has no offensive ability anymore."
If you wish to concede your assertion was wrong, do so. Don't claim you didn't make it when it's less than a page up.Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-03 at 11:18 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-09-03, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
theres no probably about it, unless he has a back up axe that is just as effective a weapon as the one he lost his offense is severly gimped although impressive, all his moves that actually did damage worth mentioning was all with his axe
if he has another 2 handed weapon or can easily aquire one then he doesnt have that great of a handicap but i think its unlikely that hes jsut going to pull out another weapon so easily
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=305
Note the words, "he has no offensive ability anymore."
yes its possible that Tarquin can still fight, worst case scenario he just steals Nales sword and moves on but IF he only has a dagger then in a one on one fight against Roy, Roy would be getting tickled Tarquin would possibly do less damage with a dagger thenThog could do with his fists (assuming Thog has the proper feats) since Thog undoubtably has more strength then Tarquin especially while raging, since Roy still managed to take a very very large beating during the fight Tarquin with only a dagger could never take Roy down and essentially has no offensive ability assuming the above is true
i really dont think i should ahve had to go into such excruciating detail to explain waht i thought was obvious though -.-Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-03 at 11:22 AM.
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2012-09-03, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Why do you think the ruler of an empire would be unable to obtain another battleaxe on short notice?
You have to stand behind your words, dude. The burden is on you to phrase your posts more precisely. There's really only one way to interpret "He has no offensive ability anymore."Last edited by jere7my; 2012-09-03 at 11:32 AM.
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2012-09-03, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
just call it a gut feeling i dont really have any solid evidence that prove he wont pull out another axe
i understand standing behind your words but my english obviously isnt as good as everyone else here and english isnt everyones first language so i think people should be a bit more open minded when reading
i mean was there really any reason to attack me like that instead of jsut taking it as an exageration?Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-03 at 11:48 AM.
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2012-09-03, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-03, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-03, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think the Order's ambush was completely negated. It seems to me that a lot of posters have forgotten the Order was retreating from an ambush by the LG. At that time, the Order was outnumbered and outgunned, so Roy gave the order to retreat. Down in the depths of the pyramid, the Order pulls off an ambush of a superior force. The LG has been weakened to the point that they have to flee, or risk destruction. Now the Order has the time to heal, locate V, and to locate the Gate (if possible).
Besides, Tarquin is a high level adventurer who has almost certainly been around since 1st edition (Haley's father also started out as a 1st edition character). He should have lots of practical tricks and abilities learned over the decades. What good high level adventurer wouldn't? I also think that Tarquin has been defeated a lot, and has learned from those defeats.
I also think it likely that Tarquin has more than one powerful weapon available. The loss of the axe will hurt, but he can go back to his personal arsenal and get a new weapon. Most high level PCs I've known have more weapons than they can carry around. And it is always good to carry a light weapon (like a dagger) for those times that light weapons are the only ones useable.