League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut

[Terribad]

Wow a game where I feel a screenshot is needed to be shared. A game where I felt I truly carried a very heavy team. 3 troll picks in AP mid Eve, AP Rengar who stole CS for 15 mins bot lane with me, and instalock "I tried her twice on AI here I am" Syndra. Their Rengar was incredibly fed and could melt me in one combo.

The team was behind all game but when late game rolled around, somehow a combination of good positioning and well-timed spellshields enabled me to survive and clean up during late game teamfights which led to sweet glorious victory.

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Edit: If anything this game had taught me is that for AD carries, farm and positioning is EVERYTHING. And late-game teamfights decide the game. If your opponents are not terribly ahead by mid-game, you still have a good chance of turning things around with a positive team fight. By positive I mean the AD carry survives to take down towers after an ace.

[Eldariel]

AP Eve isn't actually a trollpick; after the last set of buffs it's actually really strong and played in high elo solo queue

[Terribad]

AP Eve isn't actually a trollpick; after the last set of buffs it's actually really strong and played in high elo solo queue

Perhaps for draft but not for blind pick Normals. I felt he got lucky the opposing mid was Kassadin.

[Eldariel]

Perhaps for draft but not for blind pick Normals. I felt he got lucky the opposing mid was Kassadin.

And why's she not viable in blind pick?

[dgnslyr]

I want to say AP Rengar isn't a troll pick either, but the recent buff/nerf has hurt his ratios a good deal, so I dunno if I can still say that.

[Eldariel]

I want to say AP Rengar isn't a troll pick either, but the recent buff/nerf has hurt his ratios a good deal, so I dunno if I can still say that.

That's not the thing he had a prob with (AP Rengar's still fine), the prob was he was stealing CS in the bot.

[Murmaider]

I'd rather say the enemy's Rengar was trolling. How can he have forgotten Bloodrazor and Sword of the Occult.

[JKTrickster]

How to build Jax:

Damage, then Tanky.

<snip>

My point is that Jax has one of those kits where he can build whatever items he feels like, and get away with it, as long as the core build items give him damage and/or tankiness.

Cool I never thought about it that way before! He is rather versatile, I'll admit. Do you really feel that there are no essential or core items on him?

Sometimes I feel just going Triforce -> Guardian's Angel if I'm steam rolling.

Vamp scepter grants 2/3rds of Bilgewater's lifesteal at less than 1/4 the cost. You really need not finish the cutlass just for the sustain if you really want the rushed triforce. The vamp scepter will work just fine.

Do you think there that extra life steal might ever come in handy if you're losing the lane? Or would two Droan's Blade be a better investment?


On the issue of TriForce, do you feel the burst from Sheen is more important than the Slow and Health from Phage?

[Terribad]

And why's she not viable in blind pick?

I concede that AP mid Eve could reasonably be a viable pick in draft if you knew who the opposing mid is going to be and that Eve would be able to do reasonably well against whoever that is. Someone with a poor early game like Kassadin for instance.

If the Eve player goes against someone with a bursty strong early game (like most AP mids I can think of), that's one lane lost. Harassed, forcing back and loss of CS and XP. An unfarmed Eve is even worse than other most other of the more popular unfarmed AP mid picks, a large number of whom at least bring some CC or utility to the team.

[Reynard]

Cool I never thought about it that way before! He is rather versatile, I'll admit. Do you really feel that there are no essential or core items on him?

Sometimes I feel just going Triforce -> Guardian's Angel if I'm steam rolling.

I'm not saying that you're wrong to get Triforce, it's completely freaking amazing on Jax, I'm just saying it's not essential. My build usually does include it, unless I'm somehow falling behind in which case my Phage becomes a Mallet, if I buy it at all.

Essential items on Jax, though? Mercury Treds, maybe?

I think my most-built non-boot item is Gunblade. It fits in every possible Jax build very well, and the active on it can be better than the phage proc sometimes.

Do you think there that extra life steal might ever come in handy if you're losing the lane? Or would two Droan's Blade be a better investment?

I get Dorans if I'm using my lifesteal Quint page, otherwise Phage into Vamp.

On the issue of TriForce, do you feel the burst from Sheen is more important than the Slow and Health from Phage?

Honestly? Depends how you feel the lane is going. If you're just going slap-slap-JUMPSLAP to harass/drive them out, then sheen is better than Phage. If you think you can win a straight fight and that your enemy will oblige you one at the start, Phage first.

If you're up against say Darius or rumble, and you're just trying to farm and reach lategame, getting harrass in whenever it's safe to, the Heart of Gold FTW.

[TheShrike]

If you're up against say Darius or rumble, and you're just trying to farm and reach lategame, getting harrass in whenever it's safe to, the Heart of Gold FTW.

Trying to farm up and survive against Rumble is not how to play against him. Jax really only has a chance vs Rumble if you're aggressive early and often. If you can keep him on the back foot, Rumble becomes a lot less scary.

[NineThePuma]

So, surprising for me, but Darius vs Garen, in my presonal experience, goes toward the garen. Is this normal?

[TheShrike]

I find Garen to be a really, really strong pick against Darius. I thought it was general knowledge that Garen outlanes Darius. Free tankyness, just as much stupid damage from abilities and fairly stupid sustain combine to make Garen basically out-Darius, Darius.

Now, Garen doesn't have the AA debuff of Darius, nor the silly DoT, but I do find Garen easily beats Darius.

[Math_Mage]

Eh... I could, but wouldn't it be more productive to learn how to last hit on real games where there's an actual threat of bot lane champions to harass and deny you? I mean, that's always what I try to do, just because I think it's more developmental of different skills which all interplay with each other.

Also: out of all the AD carries, Vayne is the one I like. I liked pre-change Twitch and pre-change Corki, and Ezreal feels cheap to me, so honestly, w/e. I learn who I want to learn.

You've posted repeatedly about how you are not playing AD carry in real games because you have so much trouble last-hitting. So your choice between 'learn how to last hit in bot games vs. learn how to last-hit in real games' has thus far actually been 'learn how to last hit in bot games vs. not learning how to last hit'. At this point, even if you are finally willing to take AD carry into real games, I would definitely advise you to play a few custom games first, just like I've been advising all new players to practice last-hitting in customs for the last year or more. It's not that learning in real games is 'more productive' or 'less productive'; it's that learning in custom games is an important first step towards last-hitting better in real games.

You're also picking one of the AD carries who really really punishes poor last-hitting, because not only does Vayne need her late-game build ASAP, but she also has no AOE farming, so your ability to last-hit under towers, use autoattack resets to your advantage, and time specialized last-hits with Silver Bolts will be tested frequently. She also has no long-range poke, unlike every other AD carry in the game, so she can't farm at all when zoned, a trait shared only by MF in practice (and since when does MF get zoned?). I would pick Graves or Sivir to acknowledge your position on the learning curve.

Man, have I been seeing a lot of Miss Fortune lately or is it just confirmation bias? I actually rather like MF myself, but she seems oddly flavor-of-the-month lately. Maybe I'll try to practice more with Tristana again...

MF got a buff and a new look. People are interested in her again.

I concede that AP mid Eve could reasonably be a viable pick in draft if you knew who the opposing mid is going to be and that Eve would be able to do reasonably well against whoever that is. Someone with a poor early game like Kassadin for instance.

If the Eve player goes against someone with a bursty strong early game (like most AP mids I can think of), that's one lane lost. Harassed, forcing back and loss of CS and XP. An unfarmed Eve is even worse than other most other of the more popular unfarmed AP mid picks, a large number of whom at least bring some CC or utility to the team.

Eve mid is strong against many lanes, to the degree that she's a moderately common ban herself.

So, surprising for me, but Darius vs Garen, in my presonal experience, goes toward the garen. Is this normal?

Garen counters Darius. I hate to insult Garen, but it's one of the few situations where playing him is actually a good idea.

[Neoseanster]

I peaked at 1977 elo last night for the first time. Doubt I'll manage diamond, but hey, it's already higher than I'd managed before.

On a less positive note, I learned that I've totally forgotten how to AD carry competently for 1900s. x.x I haaaaate laning against Blitzcrank.

[JKTrickster]

I'm not saying that you're wrong to get Triforce, it's completely freaking amazing on Jax, I'm just saying it's not essential. My build usually does include it, unless I'm somehow falling behind in which case my Phage becomes a Mallet, if I buy it at all.

Essential items on Jax, though? Mercury Treds, maybe?

I think my most-built non-boot item is Gunblade. It fits in every possible Jax build very well, and the active on it can be better than the phage proc sometimes.



I get Dorans if I'm using my lifesteal Quint page, otherwise Phage into Vamp.

Ahh interesting. I've actually haven't been able to pick up Gunblade yet. In most games either my team wins when I have a Triforce, or we lose when I have a Triforce.

Normally I go Phage -> Vamp -> Triforce though. Gunblade just costs so much!

Honestly? Depends how you feel the lane is going. If you're just going slap-slap-JUMPSLAP to harass/drive them out, then sheen is better than Phage. If you think you can win a straight fight and that your enemy will oblige you one at the start, Phage first.

If you're up against say Darius or rumble, and you're just trying to farm and reach lategame, getting harrass in whenever it's safe to, the Heart of Gold FTW.

Actually I've found my "just farm till lategame" experiences extremely bad. And not only because of the bad matchup, but because when I don't go extremely aggressive and jump on them, they just push me out of lane within minutes. Is this normal?

So, surprising for me, but Darius vs Garen, in my presonal experience, goes toward the garen. Is this normal?

Actually I'm pretty sure Garen is one of the best Top Laners against Darius.

[Godskook]

I would pick Graves or Sivir to acknowledge your position on the learning curve.

Caitlyn also makes a great choice for beginners, imho, since her hyper-long range and snare allow for much higher lane safety than other ADs, allowing more focus to be devoted to actually last-hitting.

[Sohala]

Jungle Vayne. Who needs last hitting?

[dgnslyr]

People who like not-dying? Isn't Vayne one of the squishiest champs in the game? How do you want her to clear any camps?

[Sohala]

With armor, lifesteal, % based damage and knockbacks. You also take those masteries that lower damage taken by a couple points, it REALLY adds up.

[Math_Mage]

With armor, lifesteal, % based damage and knockbacks. You also take those masteries that lower damage taken by a couple points, it REALLY adds up.

Corki has much better clear than Vayne, though I'll admit Vayne's ganks are better...if she can ever get in range.

[Terribad]

Eve mid is strong against many lanes, to the degree that she's a moderately common ban herself.

This is news to me. How is she outlaning common mid picks?

[sonofzeal]

What levelling order do you use most for Rumble? I'm going pretty heavy E since it seems to be the skill I use most often.

And what do you make of playstyle? Harass with E as often as possible since you're manaless? Or go all in and count on the superb sustained damage of Q for maximum pwnage? Countering him, what do you do - wear him down while dodging his skillshots, hang back and farm passively, or try to force a fight while his abilities are on cooldown?

[toasty]

This is news to me. How is she outlaning common mid picks?

I expect the same way every other melee middle deals with ranged heroes mid. For instance, Gragas: gragas SUCKS until you get some mana regen/levels, but once that happens, its a simple matter to farm with Q+E combos and trying to harass the enemy down until you can get that wombo combo off and kill them.

The same is EXACTLY TRUE with Galio, btw, to such a point that I'd argue they are basically the same hero in many, many regards. Expect Gragas' ult makes him a poke mage, while Galio's makes him an AoE stack.

In other news: Pretty sure Rengar is good now. Just gotta learn to play him.

Also: People banning Eve, Jayce, and Rengar means that Shen, Morgana and Malphite should be creeping their way back into solo queue.

[TechnOkami]

Oh, b-t-dubs, just learned for myself how silly Morgana is.

[Godskook]

This is news to me. How is she outlaning common mid picks?

Early game, most mids aren't too dangerous, so only the most aggressive ones are scary to her, while mid-game, she shoves lane and games like the roamer she is.

[Neoseanster]

Why you go down for maintenance mid-ARAM game, servers. :( AP Alistar funny.

Oh well. Pretty new Soraka model coming in. <3 I might need to actually learn a non-Janna support.

[Talesin]

Figured its getting a bit long so i've spoilered for length.

Eve

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If the Eve player goes against someone with a bursty strong early game (like most AP mids I can think of), that's one lane lost.

I'd say the main problem about playing against an AP eve mid is that is can be very hard to keep track of her. Every time she disappears she could just be sitting in the lane, however she could be running past wards bot/top, be in our jungle, in their jungle. If your team/you aren't warding properly you can let an Eve snowball on kills rather than farm.

Last hitting

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I would definitely advise you to play a few custom games first, just like I've been advising all new players to practice last-hitting in customs for the last year or more.

Doing this is probably the thing that got me 150-200 elo in the recent month or two. My ability to easily out last hit opponents, while down at 1200, meant even if I was losing my lane I was frequently ahead/even in gold and I was then able to not focus on last hitting as it started to become second nature.

Once you can focus 100% on avoiding ganks, trading well and not having to look at the minions your gameplay improves so much. Plus just jump on skype with some friends and make a fun little competition/game of it. Ask them to practise new champions/champions you hate laning against and you'll get better.

Jax

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Jax related build talk

I find the odd thing with Jax, once he gets to level ~11 and has trinity force he cannot be duel by just about anybody. I'm also struggling to find a good way to transition to this to make his early game stronger.

I've been playing with the following:

Boots + 3p -> double Dorans -> Trin force
Boots + 3p -> Vamp sceptre -> Trin force
Boots + 3p -> Cutlass -> Trin force
Boots + 3p -> Philo -> TF

It depends on the lane but I think the vamp sceptre -> TF is the ideal build i'd want to go for because it allows you to hit his godmode status earliest. However the double dorans is necessary against certain laners because you can't take advantage of just standing in the minion line and bullying anyone who comes closest.

After TF, I agree with the previous posters, go for tanky. Wits, Giant's belt, GA, Hex Drinker, Randuins. Things like that to just keep you auto attacking longer.

Rumble

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What levelling order do you use most for Rumble? I'm going pretty heavy E since it seems to be the skill I use most often.

I tend to find Rumble can run a variety of skill levelings to suit the situation.

I mainly go for max Q. It's a lot of damage, you can't miss it if you use it at the right time, but it does push the lane if you hit creeps but it is your best pushing/farming tool on larger waves. Using this skill well will win trades just because of the damage it does over its duration.

Maxxing W, or at least a few ranks in W early, I tend to go for when i'm against someone like GP, Jarvan or occasionally hyper aggressive Riven's. The extra shield is so useful, given you don't use mana just hit it when you're expecting to take damage, and helps negate the harass.

I'd max E if I was zoned off the creeps or had the ability to zone someone off the creeps just so I could poke them from range. One thing to be careful with E is that using the second E resets the time it takes to start losing heat. Using the second E hit to keep yourself above 50 heat can be useful but also make sure you don't just shoot it off unnecessarily when you should be cooling down so you can go for a heavier all in attack from a lower heat situation.

[Eldariel]

What levelling order do you use most for Rumble? I'm going pretty heavy E since it seems to be the skill I use most often.

And what do you make of playstyle? Harass with E as often as possible since you're manaless? Or go all in and count on the superb sustained damage of Q for maximum pwnage? Countering him, what do you do - wear him down while dodging his skillshots, hang back and farm passively, or try to force a fight while his abilities are on cooldown?

It depends on the lane match-up. Against many melees he can be a total bully by maxing Q and just grilling their butt (while having one rank in E for the slows and one in W for the shield/speed) around 4-5. Against mages you almost always want to max E for last hitting if they have strong early presence. In some lanes, if you just need to survive, maxing W is viable to just take hits and still farm.

[LordShotGun]

Eve mid is strong against many lanes, to the degree that she's a moderately common ban herself.

Garen counters Darius. I hate to insult Garen, but it's one of the few situations where playing him is actually a good idea.

Ok, so you say these things. Care to elaborate? I just don't see it.