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Thread: The Melee Fighter.
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2012-10-09, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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The Melee Fighter.
"A melee fighter but a girl"
Is what the mate has requested for her first 3.5 game. I've gotten tons of suggestions from Warblade to Swashbuckler. I'm not sure how much to optimize the build, but I'm thinking I'll avoid prestige classes for the first little while.
I'm personally looking at Swashbuckler, but for all intents and purposes Swashbuckler isn't the greatest class. Barbarian was also suggested, although a Barbarian might be a bit out of place at a Boarding School, then again this is a campaign where I'm going back to basics and have basically thrown everything out the window short of the character sheets and the d20s.
I'm kinda lost, I want the class to be very simple, but I don't want her to be bored doing the same thing over and over again in combat. Then again it might not have that much combat depending on how we go at it.
What do you people think?
Tomb of battle isn't out...but at the same time I don't understand the tomb myself, and I have like ONE day to prep the character sheets.Last edited by Morithias; 2012-10-09 at 02:30 PM.
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2012-10-09, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
If you're just looking for a simple melee build that doesn't do the same thing every round, Tome of Battle is the easy answer. It's a little more complicated than the base game, but if you either make or print out some maneuver cards, it shouldn't be too tough to catch on.
Plus, it self-optimizes to the extent that a new player can make her own character without being crippled by things like bad feat choices.
EDIT:
Ah, caught the edit. But it's like 10 minutes' reading and the complicated parts of the character sheet (maneuvers) are ready to print here.Last edited by eggs; 2012-10-09 at 02:37 PM.
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2012-10-09, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Are we assuming that melee=mundane? Because otherwise I think a Psychic Warrior would be the best bet. Have it focus on buffing its melee abilities (which is what it already does) and possibly take the Soulbound Weapon ACF if your mate doesn't want to hit things with claws.
The Psywarrior can become Huge, give itself tons of extra hitpoints, call claws or swords to itself, and make itself move faster. But it is designed to use all of this to hit things in the face!
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2012-10-09, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: The Melee Fighter.
Start with 2 levels of Ranger for the skill points. At level 2, take TWF. Then go 1-2 levels of Barbarian for the rage and totem powers. Starting from level 4 or 5, go into Tiger Claw Warblade.
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2012-10-09, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Melee Fighter.
The warblade class itself is easy. I guess that you don't understand maneuvers. Gaining maneuvers is like a sorcerer gaining a spell. Half of the initiator level (rounded down like always) determines the highest level of the maneuver that the martial adept can use. So a level 13 martial adept (swordsage, warblade or crusader) has access to level 6 maneuvers, just like a level 13 sorcerer can have level 6 spells.
The only problem regarding maneuvers is that some have prerequisites (to learn one maneuver, you might need to know some other maneuvers and stances).
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2012-10-09, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
So spiked chain tripper? Or just sword and board fight defensively? It doesn't need to be super optimized...there are only two of us...so I won't be sending anything that dangerous at us.
Edit: maybe I should whip out the build I had for Alexis. The "Captain America who is female" build, she might like that.Last edited by Morithias; 2012-10-09 at 02:38 PM.
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2012-10-09, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
ToB isn't really that hard, especially Warblade. You can pick her maneuvers, or she can pick them herself. Just look at the list, and whichever ones sound coolest, probably are. For simplicity, just ignore the maneuver prereq part. Other than that, figure out what maneuvers of what levels she should have, and go from there.
ToB isn't that much more complicated for a person learning the game. There is already so much other stuff, if they learn ToB right along with it, it'll be seamless. I've put ToB characters in the hands of 1st timers, and they had no problem wrapping their heads around the idea of recharging maneuvers and whatnot.
EDIT: What level are you playing? I could whip out a quick Warblade in about 45 seconds, if you are interested.
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2012-10-09, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
She's starting at level 4. If you're willing to do that, I'm not going to say no. Nice to know people on the forums are so helpful. (No that is NOT sarcasm, you're going to save me a ton of work and worry).
Edit: the sad part is that I actually do own the Tomb of Battle, I just never was able to understand it. And the one player who uses it, doesn't come to sessions like ever.Last edited by Morithias; 2012-10-09 at 02:43 PM.
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2012-10-09, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Nothing too flashy. Primary Weapon would be between a Mace and a spiked chain. The armor would have spikes, as would the shield, and the helm, and the chain. That way whenever I grapple someone, they feel it.
It's basically a build I use that can protect people, and basically be a "Immovable Wall of Thorns"
I'd take points in cleric to add to the defensive abilities.
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2012-10-09, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Luckily for you, the Warblade and maneuvers are free on the internet on this handy link
If you are still interested I too can whip up a quick low-level Warblade, just give me a little more like THF with a big axe or quick one-handed swords(wo)man
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2012-10-09, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Um..I'll get back to you on that since she didn't give me any details.
The only other person in the party is going to be a healer though, so she's basically going to be doing all the damage. So probably Two-handed fighting. No point in going all "+40 ac" or something, since the healer has more than enough spells to keep her alive, and most of the enemies i'm going to be sending are going to be relatively low level for the first few fights.
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2012-10-09, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Stats: Str > Con > Dex > Int > Wis > Cha
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Toughness
Maneuvers:
Steel Wind, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer
Stances:
Punishing Stance, Hunters Sense
Skills: Concentration, Jump, Tumble, Balance, any others
Typical maneuvers ready:
Mountain Hammer, Emerald Razor, Moment of Perfect Mind, and either Steel Wind or Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Gear:
+1 melee weapon (greatsword or glaive)
+1 BP or Chain Shirt
+1 Cloak of Resistance
Misc gear like a backpack and rope
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2012-10-09, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Crusader is by-far my preferred option for a new player. Always has something to do, does not have to actively manage resources but can't spam, and the granting mechanic prevents decision paralysis because it limits your options, generally, to only a couple of maneuvers.
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2012-10-09, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
I cannot recommend against Fighter strongly enough.
Building a Fighter that's actually competent is not easy, it is very hard. There is no leeway and no opportunity for forgiveness, and the options available are enormous and spread out across a ton of books. If you restrict her to Core, then she'll just be gimped. Does not sound like a recipe for fun to me.
Meanwhile, playing a Fighter is frequently boring. It's all too easy to fall into the "I full attack again" syndrome.
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2012-10-09, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
That's a great point, yes. Crusaders and Warblades also have good reasons to have Cha and Int respectively, which is always good.
Mostly, the Fighter is a terribly-designed class, which makes it an exceedingly odd choice for introduction to the game. Better to start with the best stuff first, and that means Tome of Battle.
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2012-10-09, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Ok
Quick THF Warblade
Code:Human Warblade 4 HP 47 (4d12+16) Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 cha 8 (32 point buy) 1 Weapon Focus (Falchion) Human Combat Reflexes 3 Power Attack Maneuvers Known: 5 Maneuvers Readied 1st Level Moment of the Perfect Mind Sudden Leap Steel Wind 2nd Level Emerald Razor Wall of Blades Stances Known 2: Hunter's Sense Punishing Stance BAB +4 Fort +6 Ref +5 Will +1 Skills Balance 7 Ranks Concentration 7 ranks Intimidate 7 Ranks Jump 7 Ranks Spot 3.5 (CC) ranks Listen 3.5 (CC) ranks 8 extra skill points for whatever you like
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2012-10-09, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
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2012-10-09, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
Some notes:
Actually that's just a 28 point buy, if I'm not mistaken. ^^ Did you remember the ability boost at level 4?
With the boost and actually spending 32 points, she could have: 17/14/14/14/10/10 -- no need for dumpstat.
Concerning Stances:
Hunter's Sense is pretty cool as it grants a unique ability, but if the player isn't interested in having her character sniffing trails, the other Tiger Claw stance "Blood in the Water" is also pretty awesome, especially with weapons that have a wide threat range (such as the Falchion, but of course it really comes into its own with dual-wielded Khukris).
Now the following may sound a bit complicated but please bear with me:
As DM you should be aware that the Stance progression in the ToB is badly written, and you should consider moving the second stance from level 4 to 5, to allow the player to select a grade 3 stance. This is a very common houserule among ToB users.
As written, a Warblade must pick 2 level 1 stances but doesn't get the chance to take a level 3 stance until class level 10, when it would be stupid to do so because by that time you have access to level 5 stances. It also means that a multiclass character gets access to a Warblade class feature quicker than a single-classed Warblade.
All of that is plain silly. Hence the bugfix to move the second stance to level 5.Last edited by Firechanter; 2012-10-09 at 05:57 PM.
Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2012-10-09, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
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2012-10-09, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-09, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
If you want a real "smart fighter"-archetype (which I assume is what the point is here), Factotum 4/Warblade 16 (or well, Warblade onwards) is a very solid option. It loses one BAB but Factotum gives Int to just about everything for Inspiration points (and you can get more Inspiration through Font of Inspiration feat).
This gives her a lot of skill points to do whatever she wants with, the ability to 3xEncounter add Int to Attack, Damage, AC or Save for one roll and Int to all physical checks and skills. Then just the Warblade maneuvers, starting from level 2 access on level 5.
Of course, straight Warblade works too but if she wants to utilize the Intelligence more, Factotum is a fine option.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
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2012-10-09, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Melee Fighter.
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