Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

[vasharanpaladin]

The change only kicks in when they hit good alignment. And even after they've been purified, they still look pretty much the same - although with some differences dependent on how your DM decides to fluff it.

...The immediate mental image is Daboora showing up in Heaven after Buu ate him.

[Falcon777]

That insufferable leech? I wasn't aware that Buu's digestive track was a purifying process...

[Forrestfire]

Enma sent him to heaven because he would enjoy hell too much.

Poor guy

[Falcon777]

So just yesterday I was asking some others about the resplendent device effect and the implement type of device, and I of course found out that they are used to temporarily expand your mote pool. The implement effectively allows you to have more motes in your costume/device, while the resplendent device effect allows you, for a single turn, have more motes for your illuminations (store one, and then use the same motes for the stored one as another).

What I'm curious about is under what circumstances would someone choose one of those options rather than another (a different kind of device in the case of the implement). The implement, of course, could theoretically be useful if you wanted to have more motes in say, nimble and weightless, but what about the resplendent effect? The fact that it takes a full round action to invest in it means that it likely is only a single use per encounter thing. I mean, why bother wasting a turn to invest in it when you could instead just go ahead and use the illumination? Am I missing something here? Am I perhaps just inexperienced when it comes to tactics and theoretical situations? Or do you guys think that the effect ought to be stronger?

[Moonwolf727]

So just yesterday I was asking some others about the resplendent device effect and the implement type of device, and I of course found out that they are used to temporarily expand your mote pool. The implement effectively allows you to have more motes in your costume/device, while the resplendent device effect allows you, for a single turn, have more motes for your illuminations (store one, and then use the same motes for the stored one as another).

What I'm curious about is under what circumstances would someone choose one of those options rather than another (a different kind of device in the case of the implement). The implement, of course, could theoretically be useful if you wanted to have more motes in say, nimble and weightless, but what about the resplendent effect? The fact that it takes a full round action to invest in it means that it likely is only a single use per encounter thing. I mean, why bother wasting a turn to invest in it when you could instead just go ahead and use the illumination? Am I missing something here? Am I perhaps just inexperienced when it comes to tactics and theoretical situations? Or do you guys think that the effect ought to be stronger?

I spent a while looking at the Resplendant effect and I can say I think you are misinterpreting just how it works, its not a major problem though. When you invest motes into the Resplendant effect to store the illumination you do not actually expend the illumination from what I can tell, it stays on your list of readied illuminations rather than counting as being used. You have to waste a round readying it but it allows you to use an illumination during the encounter without expending it and making it unavailable for later.

Hope that helps and I wasn't greviously mistaken

[Qwertystop]

So just yesterday I was asking some others about the resplendent device effect and the implement type of device, and I of course found out that they are used to temporarily expand your mote pool. The implement effectively allows you to have more motes in your costume/device, while the resplendent device effect allows you, for a single turn, have more motes for your illuminations (store one, and then use the same motes for the stored one as another).

What I'm curious about is under what circumstances would someone choose one of those options rather than another (a different kind of device in the case of the implement). The implement, of course, could theoretically be useful if you wanted to have more motes in say, nimble and weightless, but what about the resplendent effect? The fact that it takes a full round action to invest in it means that it likely is only a single use per encounter thing. I mean, why bother wasting a turn to invest in it when you could instead just go ahead and use the illumination? Am I missing something here? Am I perhaps just inexperienced when it comes to tactics and theoretical situations? Or do you guys think that the effect ought to be stronger?

Like I said in explaining it, Resplendent, set up ahead of time, basically has a cost of dropping your mote pool until you activate it, for a benefit of having your mote pool back afterwards.

Let's say you set up a max-power Might (Charisma) Pulses Surge (assuming for these purposes that that adds up to half your mote pool, for easier math). You set this up ahead of combat, so the action cost is meaningless.

First round of combat, you have half your mote pool available. You do something that has no mote requirement - doublemove to a better tactical position, say, with your Swift spent on a Courage + Awakening + Echoes in case someone tries to attack you.

Second round, you use your Swift action to release the Might (Charisma) + Pulses that you had in your Resplendent, giving all your allies a Charisma boost. Using that normally would leave you with half of your mote pool left, but you'd still have both a Move and a Standard left. However, since you released this from a Resplendent Device, you still have all your motes. So you use half of them on a Carnage + Ramparts to wall off your enemies and keep you healthy, and the other half on a Tremors + Explosion to hit them into the wall and, if you lined up the wall as well as you should have, do 2d6 per mote.

If you didn't have the Resplendent, you would have to choose to give up either the Charisma boost that makes the saves harder, the wall that lets you boost your damage like that and keep the enemies in place, or the blast that does the actual damage. Or just put less motes into each and have an overall weaker effect - less damage, less range, less save-boosting, and a smaller amount of wall to work with.

I spent a while looking at the Resplendant effect and I can say I think you are misinterpreting just how it works, its not a major problem though. When you invest motes into the Resplendant effect to store the illumination you do not actually expend the illumination from what I can tell, it stays on your list of readied illuminations rather than counting as being used. You have to waste a round readying it but it allows you to use an illumination during the encounter without expending it and making it unavailable for later.

Hope that helps and I wasn't greviously mistaken

Actually, illuminations aren't expended when used. The readied ones, you can use as much as you like within the limits of action economy and your mote pool.

[Moonwolf727]

Actually, illuminations aren't expended when used. The readied ones, you can use as much as you like within the limits of action economy and your mote pool.

........ IGNORE ME!

Seriously how did I miss that before?!

[Falcon777]

Like I said in explaining it, Resplendent, set up ahead of time, basically has a cost of dropping your mote pool until you activate it, for a benefit of having your mote pool back afterwards.

Let's say you set up a max-power Might (Charisma) Pulses Surge (assuming for these purposes that that adds up to half your mote pool, for easier math). You set this up ahead of combat, so the action cost is meaningless.

First round of combat, you have half your mote pool available. You do something that has no mote requirement - doublemove to a better tactical position, say, with your Swift spent on a Courage + Awakening + Echoes in case someone tries to attack you.

Second round, you use your Swift action to release the Might (Charisma) + Pulses that you had in your Resplendent, giving all your allies a Charisma boost. Using that normally would leave you with half of your mote pool left, but you'd still have both a Move and a Standard left. However, since you released this from a Resplendent Device, you still have all your motes. So you use half of them on a Carnage + Ramparts to wall off your enemies and keep you healthy, and the other half on a Tremors + Explosion to hit them into the wall and, if you lined up the wall as well as you should have, do 2d6 per mote.

If you didn't have the Resplendent, you would have to choose to give up either the Charisma boost that makes the saves harder, the wall that lets you boost your damage like that and keep the enemies in place, or the blast that does the actual damage. Or just put less motes into each and have an overall weaker effect - less damage, less range, less save-boosting, and a smaller amount of wall to work with.

Yes, but the problem with it is that unless I have a particular illumination that I want to fire off at the beginning of every fight (not entirely out of the realm of possibility), then I would have a smaller mote pool to work with until I used the effect. I suppose it could work. A might surge is actually a pretty good example of what would go into a resplendent effect. I see what you mean now. Making your following blast effect harder to resist via might or denunciations (if I have the right one) is definitely a good opening. Perhaps a tempests barrier to slow them down. Thanks for explaining that, qwerty.

Speaking of the tremors effect, though, it only does 1d6 damage per 5ft that you would have traveled if you had continued to travel. Since it costs 1 mote per 5ft of travel, it basically is a 1d6 per 2 motes until you hit an obstruction, at which point it acts like a power foundation (aka, 1d6 per 1 mote instead of 1d6 per 2 motes). It basically keeps the illumination from penalizing you for choosing tremors instead of power when you are in an enclosed environment.

[Qwertystop]

Yes, but the problem with it is that unless I have a particular illumination that I want to fire off at the beginning of every fight (not entirely out of the realm of possibility), then I would have a smaller mote pool to work with until I used the effect. I suppose it could work. A might surge is actually a pretty good example of what would go into a resplendent effect. I see what you mean now. Making your following blast effect harder to resist via might or denunciations (if I have the right one) is definitely a good opening. Perhaps a tempests barrier to slow them down. Thanks for explaining that, qwerty.

Speaking of the tremors effect, though, it only does 1d6 damage per 5ft that you would have traveled if you had continued to travel. Since it costs 1 mote per 5ft of travel, it basically is a 1d6 per 2 motes until you hit an obstruction, at which point it acts like a power foundation (aka, 1d6 per 1 mote instead of 1d6 per 2 motes). It basically keeps the illumination from penalizing you for choosing tremors instead of power when you are in an enclosed environment.

Yeah, it's basically for first-round novas. Don't forget that what illumination you put in is not determined in the five-minute preparation, it's determined in the full-round mote commitment. You can change it every time. Also, since you can only use each illumination type once per round and you can't spend more than half your mote pool on it anyway, losing part of your mote pool only matters if you would be using more than one illumination per round (or if you are investing motes in your costume). If the illumination you put in isn't a swift action one, you can even put those motes in your costume right away after you use it, if that's how you were budgeting your motes.

It's 1d6 per 5 feet (which is the same as per mote) for all distance they were prevented from travelling. If you're setting up the wall, you can set it up so that they hit the wall immediately - start it off right behind them.

[Snowfire]

There's a bit of math somewhere back on the first few pages that Jamieth did that shows how a properly used Resplendent effect can be rather absurdly painful. Ah, found it!

Well, actually, yes, I do really need both the surge and a blast:-) Barrier, not so much... OK, let me check whether the timing works...

Let's do some math, shall we?

Spoiler

Show

An Old Red Dragon is a CR20 monster.
On the defensive side, it has 378 hp, AC 33 (touch 6), DR15/magic (irrelevant. Every weapon at these levels is magical), Frightful Presence (actually helps the Champion) and Immunity to Fire. It is, OTOH, takes 1.5 times damage from cold.

Now...

Champion 20
STR 34 (18 base + 5 levels + 5 tome + 6 belt) mod +12
CHA 28 (18 base + 4 tome + 6 cloak) mod +9
DEX/CON/INT/WIS 8
32 point buy

Costume elements:
Resplendent (20 motes), Temporal, Enchanced, Primal[cold] (18 motes), Nimble

Enchanced Armaments: Empowered (others are irrelevant)

Illuminations:

Unlimited Fist Works (UFS) (Surge, Battles*4) - effective EL 28, crafted with Sunlight Illumination, 20 motes, infused into Resplendent Device

All-Sundering Blizzard Palm (ASBP) (Blast, Assault, Prism[cold], Reactive*16) - EL 20, 20 motes, base damage 20d6 cold

Tactics:

Use cartridge to teleport into melee.

Use UFW. Your BAB is now +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5

Full attack. Including Weapon Focus, Enchanced Device, Str bonus you now have a full attack of +34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+29/+24/+19, and damage of 1d6+22 (12 STR, 9 CHA, 1 Enchanced Device)

You now have 22 motes free. Replace your first strike with ASBP. Use reroll in case of 1.
Your damage is equal to 1d6+22 + (20d6+80) cold (4 additional damage per dice thanks to Primal with 18 motes)
Assuming average rolls, you deal 28.5 + (150*1.5) = 253 damage. AND, dragon takes 16 additional damage from every hit for one round.

Make the rest of your attacks. They now have effective damage of 1d6+38 average of 41.5 per hit.

Your attacks have a chance to hit of 0.95*4/0.85/0.6/0.35, for an average of 5.6 hits.

5.6*41 + 253 = 482 damage. A good thing our girl probably went non-lethal on a poor lizard...

Oh, yeah, I LOVE this class!

Yeah. Basically that.

[jamieth]

I need to mention, BTW, this exact build is impossible now, since the Illuminations system was reworked since. Hadn't broken the new one yet. Just saying :-)

[Falcon777]

What part of that particular tactic would no longer work?

[Qwertystop]

What part of that particular tactic would no longer work?

Some of the things no longer exist or work differently, I assume.

I didn't look into the rules much at that point in the project (mostly I was spectating on the discussions), so I'm not sure.

[Falcon777]

An Outsider (Augmented Humanoid) is a Humanoid that is now an Outsider. They receive benefits of being a humanoid where beneficial (and where detrimental in a few specific cases)

The augmented subtype, by itself, does nothing.

Ok, I still don't understand this. In the portion of sunlight/moonlight/starlight apotheosis, it specifically states that the character becomes a native outsider that gains an alignment subtype along with the augmented subtype (a subtype that is specific to outsiders). If being augmented only means that you are now an outsider, why specifically state that the character becomes an outsider? If being augmented means that you are now an outsider but something is getting augmented, then what gets augmented? Is there a table that states something to the effect, "If you are this original type, you receive these benefits for being augmented,"?

[Forrestfire]

Well, you become an Outsider (Augmented [original type], Native), so you get the stuff from your original type.

[NineThePuma]

The augmented subtype means that it USED TO BE SOMETHING ELSE.

[Qwertystop]

It's actually right in the SRD:

Augmented Subtype
A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.

(emphasis mine)

[sreservoir]

(where "traits" and "features" are actually well-defined, distinct entities: the latter are qualities of the type itself; the former, of the type's hit dice.)

[Falcon777]

Ok. I think I'm starting to get it. As a humanoid character, said character that becomes a 20th level stargazer would become an outsider, gaining the augmented subtype, and using the outsider traits (60ft darkvision and martial proficiency) while continuing to use the humanoid features (hd, bab, saves, and skill points according to class).

So basically, correct me if I'm wrong here, Selinia is preventing characters from using the features of the outsider type by specifically stating that they gain the augmented subtype when they become a 20th level character in their base class. That is, of course, assuming that the augmented subtype isn't the default subtype gained when a character becomes a native outsider in D&D. Because if that were so, stating that a character would gain the augmented subtype would be both redundant and pointless (yes, I'm purposely being redundant there). However, from what I can tell about the fluff of the augmented subtype, any character that wasn't an outsider and suddenly became a native outsider (due to whatever reason) would naturally gain that subtype anyways (aka, it's a default gain in this situation). Am I wrong about that? If not, that's a large portion of my confusion about this.

[Qwertystop]

Augmented is odd. It's default in that anything that changes your type that isn't some form of shape-changing (so mostly just templates and capstones) says you become an X (Augmented Y), where X is the new type and Y is the old type.

However, there's no rule that actually mandates that that happens.

Also, it really wouldn't help most characters to be pure Outsiders instead of Augmented, because most characters are from 1 or 0 RHD races, so they don't have any RHD to change from their old type to the new one.

For the few with RHD that are still playable and worth playing, it'd just be really annoying to recalculate, especially since it could change your skill points and hit dice, which would be a bit of a problem since they're not supposed to change retroactively.

[Falcon777]

I see. Basically Selinia is making things more simple with the way she's stated it. Thanks qwerty, 'preciate the help.

[sreservoir]

Ok. I think I'm starting to get it. As a humanoid character, said character that becomes a 20th level stargazer would become an outsider, gaining the augmented subtype, and using the outsider traits (60ft darkvision and martial proficiency) while continuing to use the humanoid features (hd, bab, saves, and skill points according to class).

So basically, correct me if I'm wrong here, Selinia is preventing characters from using the features of the outsider type by specifically stating that they gain the augmented subtype when they become a 20th level character in their base class. That is, of course, assuming that the augmented subtype isn't the default subtype gained when a character becomes a native outsider in D&D. Because if that were so, stating that a character would gain the augmented subtype would be both redundant and pointless (yes, I'm purposely being redundant there). However, from what I can tell about the fluff of the augmented subtype, any character that wasn't an outsider and suddenly became a native outsider (due to whatever reason) would naturally gain that subtype anyways (aka, it's a default gain in this situation). Am I wrong about that? If not, that's a large portion of my confusion about this.

no, it prevents them from gaining the traits of the outsider type. since it's keyed to "previous type", it essentially means "don't bother recalculating your RHD" unless you already had an existing augmented subtype, in which case things get strange. most pcs won't have RHD anyway, though.

[Falcon777]

Ok...so........ Yeah, I'm confused again. You become an augmented humanoid (assuming you were humanoid to begin with), and you're a native outsider. As an augmented type, you're gaining the traits of your new type (native outsider) and keep the features of your old type (humanoid), right? That seems to be what augmented is saying. Because if you aren't gaining anything (or losing anything, for that matter), what's the point of stating that your character has gained the augmented subtype?

[vasharanpaladin]

Ok...so........ Yeah, I'm confused again. You become an augmented humanoid (assuming you were humanoid to begin with), and you're a native outsider. As an augmented type, you're gaining the traits of your new type (native outsider) and keep the features of your old type (humanoid), right? That seems to be what augmented is saying. Because if you aren't gaining anything (or losing anything, for that matter), what's the point of stating that your character has gained the augmented subtype?

Augmented subtype is just trying to make things more complicated than they need to be at this point; it's only applicable for templates and that if you have racial hit dice.

What the feature SHOULD say is that you become a native outsider, as Perfect Self does.

[NineThePuma]

It does make you a Native outsider.

A Native Outsider who happens to have been Humanoid :P

[vasharanpaladin]

Which means nothing unless you have RHD!

[sreservoir]

Augmented subtype is just trying to make things more complicated than they need to be at this point; it's only applicable for templates and that if you have racial hit dice.

What the feature SHOULD say is that you become a native outsider, as Perfect Self does.

no. perfect self just ... doesn't work.

perfect self doesn't even make you an outsider. perfect self just makes you vulnerable to planar binding. (well, not actually, you'd exceed the HD limits, and gate relies on (extraplanar) rather than type, but.)

(don't take design cues from the monk. in general.)

[zhdarkstar]

Since the last PrC contest is over, I've decided to repost my entry into its own thread. I would love any constructive criticism about the Radiant Senshi. Post there any changes that you feel would be necessary to bring it in line with the rest of the ToR. I already know that some changes need to be made regarding the phasing out of Enhanced Armaments.

[sreservoir]

BUG: champion's sunlight apotheosis doesn't add the augmented subtype, the other apotheoses do.

[jamieth]

OK, several pages ago, I promised a Wind Dancer PrC based on Selinia's Firekeeper. While still a work in progress, and most probably full of mistakes and bad design choices, here it is:

Wind Dancer

"Let me take your hand - lead you from this place,
Gonna leave it all behind,
Once you wished for this / Light had brought me here,
It's time to cut the rope and fly"
-From "Adventures of Pete the Shoemaker's Son"

Rare is a child who, looking at the sky, never wished to cast off the chains of gravity and join the birds in their flight. But, though the gift of flight itself comes relatively easy for the evokers, few of them manage to fully embrace the freedom that the infinite vastness of the sky symbolizes.

Those few are Wind Dancers, refusing to acknowledge any kinds of bonds and limits, gliding through the sky as free - and, some say, aimlessly - as the wind that guides them, and always eager to share that freedom with everyone.


Requirements
To become a wind dancer, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Escape Artist 8 ranks
Special: Must be able to manifest a Weightless Costume

Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [Geography] (Int), Knowledge [Nature] (Int), Knowledge [The Planes] (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Wind Dancer
Hit Dice: d8

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Illuminations
1st	+0	+0	+2	+2	Free as a Wind (Escape Artist)	+1 level of existing class
2nd	+1	+0	+3	+3	Gone with the Wind (Evasion)	+1 level of existing class
3rd	+2	+1	+3	+3	Free as a Wind (Magic)	+1 level of existing class
4th	+3	+1	+4	+4	Cloak of Winds (Wind Stance)	+1 level of existing class
5th	+3	+1	+4	+4	Free as a Wind (Compulsions), Celestial Dance	---
6th	+4	+2	+5	+5	Gone with the Wind (Improved Evasion)	+1 level of existing class
7th	+5	+2	+5	+5	Free as a Wind (Incorporeal)	+1 level of existing class
8th	+6	+2	+6	+6	Invitation to Dance	+1 level of existing class
9th	+6	+3	+6	+6	Free as a Wind (Revival), Cloak of Winds (Lightning Stance)	+1 level of existing class
10th	+7	+3	+7	+7	Bright Sky Apotheosis	---

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A wind dancer gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a wind dancer gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which they belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a wind dancer, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Free as a Wind (Su): The Wind Dancers not simply strive to be free themselves - their ultimate target is freedom for everyone. As a full-round action, a Wind Dancer may touch a restrained creature and aid its escape. When a Wind Dancer usses this ability, the creature affected may immediately make an Escape Artist check, using the higher of her own and Wind Dancer's skill modifiers.

Beginning at 3rd level, not even magical bonds can hold those the Wind Dancer wishes to set free instead of an escape Artist check, the affected creature may immediately roll a save against any magical effect that rerswtricts movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The creature gains a bonus on this saving throw equal to Wind Dancer's class level.

Beginning at 5th level, the wind dancer can set minds free as well as the bodies; in addition to spells restricting movement, this ability can also affect mind-affecting spells.

Beginning at 7th level, the Wind Dancer can find an exit even from prisons that don't have one. As a move action, the Wind Dancer can become Incorporeal until the end of her turn.

Beginning at 9th level, the Wind Dancer can escape not only the mortal bonds, but even the grasp of death itself. Whenever a Wind Dancer dies, she might choose to make an Escape Artist (DC 30) check as a free action; if she succeeds, her body dissolves into wind, leaving all the equipment behind. 24 hours later, she reforms, at -9 hp, stable and unconscious, at a random relatively safe spot within 100 miles of the place of her death. (For example, this effect can bring her into desert, but not ocean or volcano; into the forest inhabited by dangerous animals, but not the middle of battlefield)


Gone with the Wind (Su): A Wind dancer can avoid most area attacks by trusting the winds to carry her away from harm. At 2nd level, she gains Evasion special ability, or Improved Evasion if she already possessed Evasion from other source. at 7th level it gets upgraded to Improved Evasion.

Cloak of Winds (Su): When the Wind Dancer moves across the battlefield, winds twirl around her, disrupting the shooters' aim. At 4th level, the Wind Dancer gains a Wind Stance as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the requirements. At 9th level, this gets upgraded to Lightning Stance.

Celestial Dance (Su): Wind is more than a tool to a wind dancer, or a title to wear – it is an inextricable part of her being, and to be parted from it is as unthinkable as it is impossible. Beginning at 5th level, the wind dancer is considered to have the Weightless costume effect active at all times – even when she does not have her costume manifested. This does not count against her normal costume effect limit, and may have motes invested in it as usual.

Invitation to dance (Su): The vastness of the sky may represent the ultimate freedom - but it may also represent the ultimate loneliness. Unwilling to accept that, Wind Dancers are always eager to share their freedom with others. A wind dancer of 8th level or higher may, as a swift action, grant her allies the taste of her own freedom. For 1 round, all of the Wind Dancer's allies within 100 feet are treated as having the Weightless Costume manifested, with the number of motes invested in it equal to half that of Wind Dancer's, rounding down. They don't actually gain this costume effect, though, and therefore can't boost it with additional motes or expend cartriges to power it. If they have Weightless costumes of their own, the effects don't stack; they enjoy the benefits of the more powerful version of the costume.

Bright Sky Apotheosis (Su): The barrier between the wind dancer and the capricious flow she channels has all but dissolved. At 10th level, a wind dancer forevermore becomes a Native Outsider with the Air subtype and an Augmented subtype pertaining to her previous type. She is now treated as if under the effects of a freedom of movement spell at all times. This ability cannot be dispelled. Once per day, she can also use freedom of movement as a spell-like ability (caster level equals her class level) to share this benefit with others. Further, she can no longer be aged by any means mundane or magical, and will never die of old age.