Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again

[Glass Mouse]

I think that's a crucially important thing to acknowledge and to remember. A good relationship makes both the people involved better. You can have two of the most wonderful people in the world, and then when you put them together they start dragging each other down, hitting buttons and emphasising the worse aspects - and it's no one's fault, it's just a quirk of personalities. It's just not a good idea for them to be together.
So I think, if you're really conflicted about it, that's something you should think very hard about: you get together, you work out those problems to at least a tolerable degree, you communicate better... but will you be the best versions of yourselves?

I think you're right. I know this intellectually, but I think it resonates emotionally too. We aren't the best versions, not right now, possibly never. That's the important thing. Not the specifics, not the whys and hows. Sometimes things really are that simple, I suppose
(it's also interesting that part of me really rejected that you made getting-back-together into such a concrete possibility. Very useful food for thought).

Thanks. Sometimes it makes things much clearer to have them broken down by an outsider.

I wish I had something I could say to make you feel better, or clear the confusion Glass. I am really bad with this stuff usually, so all I can offer is *Hugs*. Stay strong and stand behind your words.

Thanks, Jib. Those words alone help. Seriously, I almost teared up when I opened the playground and saw yours and Serps answers. This is the best forum

*hugs back*

[Jib]

Why did you and your Ex break up?

Lulz, My girlfriends parents shot me down again~ I ask them to let me put a ring on her finger at least once a month. Her Father is all for it, but her Mother seems like she is not ready for it yet. She keeps telling me I can improve a bit more still.

Though this time she told me I need a six-pack first :D

[Grinner]

Why did you and your Ex break up?

Lulz, My girlfriends parents shot me down again~ I ask them to let me put a ring on her finger at least once a month. Her Father is all for it, but her Mother seems like she is not ready for it yet. She keeps telling me I can improve a bit more still.

Though this time she told me I need a six-pack first :D

If it makes you feel any better, they probably feel good about the fact that you're asking about it, rather than leaving them out altogether.

[Morph Bark]

Lulz, My girlfriends parents shot me down again~ I ask them to let me put a ring on her finger at least once a month. Her Father is all for it, but her Mother seems like she is not ready for it yet. She keeps telling me I can improve a bit more still.

I hope she's not a perfectionist, because technically everyone can always improve. Taken to its extreme, she should never have gotten married in the first place. But that's being nitpicky about words and ideals.

[dehro]

Why did you and your Ex break up?

Lulz, My girlfriends parents shot me down again~ I ask them to let me put a ring on her finger at least once a month. Her Father is all for it, but her Mother seems like she is not ready for it yet. She keeps telling me I can improve a bit more still.

Though this time she told me I need a six-pack first :D

sarky question: how is she shaping up as a mother in law?

[Jib]

@Dehro:

She will make a really good Mother in Law, she is a really nice woman and I get along with both the Parents pretty good. I actually have Bible Studies with them every Saturday, and I have gotten to know them pretty well :D~ Her dad actually has hinted he would rather see her stay here with me than join the military.

@Grinner:

I suspect so, it is the right thing for me to do and my girlfriend is a really old-school kind of woman. And on this last attempt her Father actually told me not to give up! That made me feel pretty good.

@Morph Bark:

I think the biggest thing she wants me to do is get my spiritual life under control and on the right track, and right now I am focusing on my professional life as to find a financially stable place for myself.

@Glass Mouse:

How are you doing today Glass? Any good luck?

@Everyone:

Stay safe, I don't know where you all live but where I am at the roads have frozen over and in a really bad state for a while. Drive carefully!

[Serpentine]

I find the idea of someone having to ask the parents' permission to marry their child really weird and kind of disturbing in this day and age. I would hope that if my future partner tried it on my parents, they'd tell them to get out ask me, seeing as I'm the one whose opinion, you know, actually matters. And for me, it'd probably be a small mark against a positive answer...

Buuuut I guess some people appreciate the nostalgia or have a need to put respect for the parents at least even to respect for the partner? I don't understand it. Just a protip for anyone wanting to marry me in the future, I guess: I'm the one you have to ask, it's none of my parents' business.
Which, you know, doesn't matter much anyway seeing as I think I have a fear of marriage...

[dehro]

I guess it's a nice gesture, and understood to be nothing more than that, to which the parents will oblige by giving their consent...again, as a nice "welcome in the family" kind of thing.
entirely disposable ritual, but a nice touch nonetheless.
that the final word on the matter isn't for the parents to give but for the girl is kind of a given, at least, in western society. let's not forget that there are tons of situations both in the western world and elsewhere that go from the traditional approach to such matters right up to the combined marriage between people who hardly know each other.
when there's a decent relationship and the reasonable expectation that the girl will say yes, I don't see anything wrong with obliging her parents by somewhat formally asking for their daughter's hand.
(which would lead me to a rather nsfw joke that would probably be a little too crude for this forum..so I shall refrain).

[Serpentine]

I guess I just find the idea that my parents get any say in anything that important to me, even just as an empty gesture, vaguely offensive. I'm pretty sure my own parents would be more bemused than "obliged".

[The Succubus]

I think it's more done out of tradition, rather than implying and giving consent. I find it rather amusing myself - maybe we should start asking for parental permission for the first time you want to sleep together as well. Wouldn't that make for some fascinating conversations?

[Morph Bark]

It's possible that for some people it's still the norm, but that's more out of religious tradition rather than anything else. I haven't ever heard of people clearly nonreligious doing that in the modern day.

And Succubus, that'd probably make it too awkward at first and thus would solve the problem of teen pregnancy. Y'know, if people actually did that. Considering they most likely never have for something like that, probably not ever.

[Chen]

I think it's more done out of tradition, rather than implying and giving consent.

Except that the quote that started this whole discussion definitely seemed to imply consent was not being given.

I had considered asking my GFs parents first, but decided against it in the end. They wouldn't have said no anyway and it would just have ruined the nice surprise they would have gotten when she told them.

[Grinner]

There are practical considerations to be given to this practice.

If your loved one is close with her family, then there's a very good chance that you'll be spending your holidays with them. With that in mind, it's a good idea to test the waters, so to speak. If nothing else, they at least feel included and don't think you're stealing their baby from them.

The drama I've seen...

[AtlanteanTroll]

So. That girl I've been posting about.

Spoiler

Show

I now know she likes me, but I haven't been able to talk to her about stuff yet. I've been sick as Hell since Sunday and now that I'm well I'm sinking in school work to that I have to make up. We should be hanging out Sunday.

My problem now is I'm not sure I like her. She's a good friend and I like sexy-times, but I just don't know. I'm a lot less confused now, and that's good. But we still need to talk.

She also happens to likes another guy that we basically only see at Cons, and there's a Con next weekend. The thing is that he's a giant jerk. She knows it, her best friends know it, and I know it. IDK if it's just me being petty/over-attached as a friend or what, but even if I don't like her, I feel he's bad news. But I guess that's none of my business.

Feeling are confusing.

[Morph Bark]

Clearly you must establish your manliness, increase your desirability to her and get rid of him all at the same time through face-punching.

Darnit tongue, stop being so far in my cheek, I can't chew food like that!

[Jib]

My Girl will not get married until I have the consent of her parents. She is a very religious person, and considers it as part of respecting her parents. Though it comes from the back-ages of my family as well, and I would never consider starting something as important as marriage without having the consent of the woman in questions parents.

Then again, parents usually love me and I have never had any who didn't want me around.

[Marillion]

Personally, if I ever plan on getting married, and I feel the need to talk to her parents about it, I'd say something like "I'm going to ask your daughter to marry me. It'd be nice if you're okay with that."

[Thajocoth]

The order for me:
- Collar my girl (Had the collaring ceremony with a few friends on Dec 22nd 2011)
- Marry her (We have the marriage licence & are figuring out an appointment to have the legal part finished)
- Get rings (She pretty much knows what she wants. It's a beautiful ring. 5 stones, with the center diamond's prongs having little hearts on the ends, and hearts on each of the 4 sides of the center diamond's crown.)
- Ask her dad (to be polite, his response doesn't really effect anything. I'm Apathetic Agnostic while my girl & her family are Jewish.)
- Have a ceremony (We want to have it in a tree. One of the big, wide, redwoods nearby that had the middle burned out, but is still alive, with the families/friends who're willing to travel 2-3 time zones gathered around the tree, at the angles that they can see into it.)

...I'm not supposed to tell anyone most of this yet, but I assume I can trust the playground to keep a secret. No one here knows me offline.

[dehro]

There are practical considerations to be given to this practice.

If your loved one is close with her family, then there's a very good chance that you'll be spending your holidays with them. With that in mind, it's a good idea to test the waters, so to speak. If nothing else, they at least feel included and don't think you're stealing their baby from them.

The drama I've seen...

I'm thinking that by the time I'll get around marrying a girl, her parents will have seen me around quite a bit already, lol.
in fact, it always bemuses me, the sheer quantity of movies where the plot is based upon 2 partners in a relationship waiting ages to introduce one another to their respective parents. seriously..it's not a big deal.

[Jib]

I always try to meet the parents pretty soon into a relationship. Not only does it generally make things easier, but I am dating their little angle, and it shows a bit of respect in my opinion to try and get to know her parents.

Besides, it also leads to free food often :D

[Hallavast]

For my OkCupid profile I've settled for English. I'll just pass it off as a personal quirk and it'll probably help filter out women I wouldn't be interested in anyway. I can always rewrite it at a later time anyway.

On that note, I need someone to have a look at it. It seems more or less alright to me, but also still feels a bit bland. Maybe I should expand it a bit too, but I'm not really sure what to add and how.

Also, it still feels a little weird. I'm not really used to exposing myself to the public like that.

I have similar concerns (about exposing myself to the public). I haven't ever used an online dating tool, but I'm considering it now. I don't even use Facebook anymore.

Is OKCupid the way to go?

[Heliomance]

I find the idea of someone having to ask the parents' permission to marry their child really weird and kind of disturbing in this day and age. I would hope that if my future partner tried it on my parents, they'd tell them to get out ask me, seeing as I'm the one whose opinion, you know, actually matters. And for me, it'd probably be a small mark against a positive answer...

Buuuut I guess some people appreciate the nostalgia or have a need to put respect for the parents at least even to respect for the partner? I don't understand it. Just a protip for anyone wanting to marry me in the future, I guess: I'm the one you have to ask, it's none of my parents' business.
Which, you know, doesn't matter much anyway seeing as I think I have a fear of marriage...

I rather like the idea of getting the parents' blessing to ask - not permission, it wouldn't stop me from asking anyway - but it's a nice gesture IMO, and if they say no, there may well be a good reason for it which I might want to confront before going any further.

[The Succubus]

I rather like the idea of getting the parents' blessing to ask - not permission, it wouldn't stop me from asking anyway - but it's a nice gesture IMO, and if they say no, there may well be a good reason for it which I might want to confront before going any further.

"While we understand that you love our daughter, we feel marrying her would be a rather bad idea. You see, she's actually a preying mantis masquerading as a human and likely to devour you on the wedding night. Sorry. "

[fergo]

While I'm not sure how much I can add to the whole 'permission' debate, it's something I'm experiencing personally so I've decided to throw my two pence in. Same as Thajacoth above, I guess this is pretty personal and confidential, so I'm trusting you guys .

When not at university, my girlfriend lives with her grandparents, who are very traditional (at least by the standards of the UK). They wouldn't be happy with our relationship, if they knew, and wouldn't be happy with the idea of marriage, as far as I know.

Her dad (whose permission would be needed, if any permission is needed at all) knows about it, and doesn't seem to disagree with it in principle, at least not violently. But he seems not to want to rock the boat (or risk being looked down on by the rest of his family). As such, he'd much rather it wasn't happening. So far, he has refused to meet me whenever my girlfriend has brought the idea up--a few different times over the last two years. I may be wrong, but the conclusion I'm drawing from this is that he just would rather not to be forced to think about it, and as long as no-one else finds out and no 'shame' is brought to his family, he's willing to put up with it.

So, permission from her family doesn't seem all that easy to achieve. On the other hand, I fear that at least some members of her family would feel extremely wronged if she got married without permission. So neither option is appealing.

What does this add to the discussion? Well, probably nothing. I disagree with having to get permission on principle, as the only people who should say yes or no are the two people involved, but taking the moral high ground doesn't work out in every situation.

[noparlpf]

In my opinion, you only need to ask permission if your partner is under eighteen. In which case, maybe you should be reevaluating whether the two of you are quite ready to get married, at least one of you is a bit young yet.

[dehro]

@noparlf.. she's at uni, so unlikely to be a minor, I'm guessing.

stuff

it's somewhat depressing to know that in this day and age there are grandparents out there who think they have a say in who their grand-daughter chooses to love.
don't feel obliged to share, but I am curious as to what could be the grounds their disapproval is based on.

[noparlpf]

@noparlpf.. she's at uni, so unlikely to be a minor, I'm guessing.

Hey, I started college at sixteen. And a friend in my year is two years younger. But we're the exception. Anyway, yeah, in that case it wouldn't really matter to me what any parents think.

[Form]

I have similar concerns (about exposing myself to the public). I haven't ever used an online dating tool, but I'm considering it now. I don't even use Facebook anymore.

Is OKCupid the way to go?

I have no idea. I've only recently started with it and so far only sent one message, which does not seem to be getting a response. From what I understand that's pretty normal and most of the time it'll be the guys sending the messages and getting few replies in return. Honestly, I don't expect much to come from it but it's not that much additional effort. Maybe even less so than it would be in real life.

[rogueboy]

I have no idea. I've only recently started with it and so far only sent one message, which does not seem to be getting a response. From what I understand that's pretty normal and most of the time it'll be the guys sending the messages and getting few replies in return. Honestly, I don't expect much to come from it but it's not that much additional effort. Maybe even less so than it would be in real life.

I've found that as long as you accept that you won't get a lot of replies, you'll be fine. I've gotten 2 replies (one of which died almost immediately, and I had forgotten existed) out of the 18 messages I've sent so far. I'm also rather limited on the number of options, being in a small college town.

[Serpentine]

So, broad relationship question, which may or may not be relevant to me right now but does come up on occasion, and so far consists of it eventually just going away or me bumbling through a round of awkwardness.
Say you have a friend, you like them, you enjoy their company, think they're generally pretty great, but you're not romantically interested in them. You think you start noticing signs that they might be romantically interested in you. At what point, and how, should you make it clear that their suspected feelings are not reciprocated?
As soon as you notice one of the signs, like them doing something nice for you? But what if you were reading them wrong, or it was just a little crush they had no intention of acting on? Isn't that kinda premature and potentially humiliating rejection?
When it starts getting physical? But what if you like cuddles, and/or it turns out that they also like cuddles and didn't intend for it to go any further than that?
When it starts getting REALLY physical? Just what are the protocols for distinguishing between a friends-with-benefits arrangement and an actual relationship?
When they flat-out ask you out or start to "define the relationship"? If it gets that far, aren't you at risk of having led them on?
And, again, of course, HOW do you do it?