Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan

[darksolitaire]

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My theory is because he used the mask to summon the death god. He lost his body like a normal person would when using the jutsu. So maybe he escaped into Zetsu's body with his soul arms repaired, so he can survive again. I think his regular body is destroyed because of the jutsu.

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This is pretty legit explanation. It also makes Oro broken as he can now spam summon grim reaper no jutsu without dying.

[Traab]

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This is pretty legit explanation. It also makes Oro broken as he can now spam summon grim reaper no jutsu without dying.

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Its even worse than that. It means every time he uses it, he removes TWO people from play. The soul he seals away, and the body he takes over. Of course, if thats the case it leaves him open to a standard wrong choice scenario. Where he tries to jump into someone that can resist him. It would be the whole sasuke takeover attempt all over again.

[Ramza00]

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My only question is why didn't Orochimaru didn't do this before.

I understand why he didn't do it during the first year after he just got his armed sealed after the invasion, supposedly Orochimaru had to do research on the Uzumaki clan for he hand no knowledge of the Reaper God Seal. Orochimaru had to learn knowledge to be able to heal himself and his sealed arms.

But his knowledge post time skip at the very beginning of Shippuden should be the same knowledge that Orochimaru has now. It should be the same knowledge that Orochimaru had when he wrote the scroll that should have changed the fate of the war. We learn that this episode that this scroll tells about Uzamaki sealing secrets and how to summon the death god.

So why didn't Orochimaru heal his arms at the very beginning of Shippuden?

You could make the arguement that he needed to return to the location of the Uzumaki shrine. The Uzumaki shrine is (probably) located in Konoha, and with having his arms sealed seriously weakened him so he couldn't fight his way through Konoha. That with the war being fought and the pain invasion Konoha is seriously undefended that he could just waltz in their and take the Uzamaki mask. This logic would work if Orochimaru had to fight his way through Konoha...

But this logic doesn't work in reality for Orochimaru is former agent of Konoha and knows most if not all Konoha's secrets and defenses. He knows about the sensing barrier and how to bypass it, he has done so in the past in part 1 prior to the Chunnin exams. He knows Konoha defenses so well he is able to get two entire armies through and actually invade Konoha. Why would Orochimaru would have to fight when all he had to do was sneak and be silent and act as a ninja.

It makes no sense for Orochimaru to not be completely restored to his full strength at the being of part 2 (when Shippuden begins.)

Can anybody find any rationale or is this just a big plot hole?

[Madara]

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I'm going to ignore any holes because that was awesome and fairly unexpected. Also, I don't mind having Oro brought back now because it fixes something. That was proof that he is the true master of Edo Tensi.

[Ramza00]

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I'm going to ignore any holes because that was awesome and fairly unexpected. Also, I don't mind having Oro brought back now because it fixes something. That was proof that he is the true master of Edo Tensi.

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I will do my best to willfully ignore the holes as well for the exact same reason as you.

That said it is always better to have answers to the holes then pretend they don't exist, so I am asking people for reasons it makes sense

[darksolitaire]

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Is Orochimaru having 3rd and 4th Hokages' DNA readily available for Edo a plot hole? 3rd I can understand but 4th...

And Zetsus inside Sasuke? Hur hur hur...

Wait, half of Kurama's chakra is sealed inside shinigami's stomach. Power boost, anyone?

[The Unborne]

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Is Orochimaru having 3rd and 4th Hokages' DNA readily available for Edo a plot hole? 3rd I can understand but 4th...

And Zetsus inside Sasuke? Hur hur hur...

Wait, half of Kurama's chakra is sealed inside shinigami's stomach. Power boost, anyone?

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He already had it from part 1 when he failed summoning Minato.

[Fjolnir]

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He had the 4th's dna already, he tried to summon the first, second, and fourth during the invasion and the third prevented the 4th from appearing.

[darksolitaire]

Me and my memory. Well, to my defense I watched part one around ~06.

[Kato]

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It makes no sense for Orochimaru to not be completely restored to his full strength at the being of part 2 (when Shippuden begins.)

Can anybody find any rationale or is this just a big plot hole?

Well, uptting aside the issue that the finale of the Chunin arc was pretty unreasonable, nobody can prove they didn't tighten/change their defenses and thus couldn't sneak back in. Also, he was weaker what with the loss of his arms so getting found out would be more troublesome.
And, I don't know why, but for somereason they went to the secret Uchiha hole for the ritual. If that was required it's likely he couldn't get there without... an Uchiha. (Yeah, yeah, he had Sasuke with him then but even IF he was willing to cooperate to help Oro at that point to regain his power the matter of Konoha security is still up.

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That was proof that he is the true master of Edo Tensi.

What? HOW?! Why?

[Ramza00]

Well, uptting aside the issue that the finale of the Chunin arc was pretty unreasonable, nobody can prove they didn't tighten/change their defenses and thus couldn't sneak back in. Also, he was weaker what with the loss of his arms so getting found out would be more troublesome.
And, I don't know why, but for somereason they went to the secret Uchiha hole for the ritual. If that was required it's likely he couldn't get there without... an Uchiha. (Yeah, yeah, he had Sasuke with him then but even IF he was willing to cooperate to help Oro at that point to regain his power the matter of Konoha security is still up.

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They could have changed the the actuall placement of the defenses after the invasion (and after Itachi waltzed right in there), while still keeping the same type of defenses (since Pain knew about the sensing barrier during the invasion arc.)

If that was the case then someone would have tried to attack Sasuke and Orocohimaru when they visited the Uchihia shrine. You don't leave your village completely defenseless during war, sure these Konoha ninja would have been butchered by Sasuke. Yet we see no dead bodies or such when Orochimaru and pals went to visit the Uchihia shrine.

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They did not went to the Uchihia shrine to revive the four hokages, this could have been done anywhere all you needed was the Uzumaki mask and 4 sacrifices. They went to the Uchihia shrine for there is something special their that the 4 people who know everything is going to show Sasuke and Orochimaru

Orochimaru waiting to now to become complete is the plot hole, he just needed the knowledge of the Uzumaki mask and to obtain the Uzumaki mask to perform the ritual. Something which he should be able to do at the beginning of part 2. This is the plot hole. What isn't a plot hole is summoning the 4 hokages or us the readers going to learn the secrets behind all the lies.

[Soras Teva Gee]

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Is Orochimaru having 3rd and 4th Hokages' DNA readily available for Edo a plot hole? 3rd I can understand but 4th...

And Zetsus inside Sasuke? Hur hur hur...

Wait, half of Kurama's chakra is sealed inside shinigami's stomach. Power boost, anyone?

That last bit was actually my very first thought.

[The Unborne]

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They could have changed the the actuall placement of the defenses after the invasion (and after Itachi waltzed right in there), while still keeping the same type of defenses (since Pain knew about the sensing barrier during the invasion arc.)

If that was the case then someone would have tried to attack Sasuke and Orocohimaru when they visited the Uchihia shrine. You don't leave your village completely defenseless during war, sure these Konoha ninja would have been butchered by Sasuke. Yet we see no dead bodies or such when Orochimaru and pals went to visit the Uchihia shrine.

-----

They did not went to the Uchihia shrine to revive the four hokages, this could have been done anywhere all you needed was the Uzumaki mask and 4 sacrifices. They went to the Uchihia shrine for there is something special their that the 4 people who know everything is going to show Sasuke and Orochimaru

Orochimaru waiting to now to become complete is the plot hole, he just needed the knowledge of the Uzumaki mask and to obtain the Uzumaki mask to perform the ritual. Something which he should be able to do at the beginning of part 2. This is the plot hole. What isn't a plot hole is summoning the 4 hokages or us the readers going to learn the secrets behind all the lies.

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There's a big difference between Itachi and Oro in the case of overcoming the changing of :the actual placement of the defenses," and that's the sharingan. Sure, Oro knew enough to slip through the barrier, but if the barrier was changed in any way I'd reckon he wouldn't be able to find those spots or whatever easily. I'm going to take a stab and say he was waiting to possess Sasuke before infiltrating Konoha again.

[Ramza00]

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There's a big difference between Itachi and Oro in the case of overcoming the changing of :the actual placement of the defenses," and that's the sharingan. Sure, Oro knew enough to slip through the barrier, but if the barrier was changed in any way I'd reckon he wouldn't be able to find those spots or whatever easily. I'm going to take a stab and say he was waiting to possess Sasuke before infiltrating Konoha again.

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That is actually a good rationale. Make many of the defenses seeable by doujutsu would explain why Pain and Itachi attacked Konoha but Orochimaru did not with the exception of the Chunnin exams where he had overwhelming force.

That is good enough for me.

[darksolitaire]

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That is actually a good rationale. Make many of the defenses seeable by doujutsu would explain why Pain and Itachi attacked Konoha but Orochimaru did not with the exception of the Chunnin exams where he had overwhelming force.

That is good enough for me.

To be fair, Pain just plain ignored the defenses.

One last thing I thought up.

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Sasuke is in room with a ninja who has previously tried to steal his body. And who just summoned 4 edo tenseis known to be rather powerful. Oro has Kabuto's memories, so chances are he knows how the fight between them went...

Snakes!

[Wayac]

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My first thoughts on the plot holes:
Perhaps Naruto does know about the Uzamaki shrine but just sees it as a room full of masks? If I recall correctly, he showed up to get his genin photo taken with a mask and a costume and I wouldn't put it past him to have stolen one from the family wall.

As for Oro, perhaps it was an issue of timing instead of capability. Who knows how long the displaced souls can be kept around once released and if he had done Edo Tensei as soon as possible, perhaps they would've figured out how to break free of it eventually. It seems to me like this is a trump card play and Oro's been waiting to use it at the right moment.

[VanBuren]

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Or perhaps, Naruto has never visited the shrine because he doesn't know anything about his heritage. Or didn't, anyway.

I mean, I doubt people were lining up to tell him about the Uzumaki temple.

[Codyage]

I am going to try and clear up all the plot holes with this chapter.

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How did Orochimaru get the DNA? He had all four souls. I am taking a good guess that the souls can be a good DNA supplement for Edo Tensei.

Why didn't Orochimaru fix himself earlier? Three possible reasons. Over the two year break, Tsunade could've changed everything security wise. Since so many people were breaking into the village.

Second reason, was because if my theory is true, Orochimaru after using the mask, sacrifices his body to the death god. Which means he has to have another open body to jump into, after he gets his arms back. Of course, if the souls of the hokage leave, without being captured, they will probably be free. So for Oro's plan to work he needs 5 bodies. One for him, and one for each hokage. Finding 5 people to break into Konoha, and then taking on all 5 people, with no jutsu would be difficult.

Because as soon as he gets his arms back, his body will be taken by the death god. So if he tries to jump into a strong host who isn't willing, he will need to fight with them. While he is fighting over the body, the souls of the hokage may have all ready fled. The entire scene happened fairly quickly, from shinigami summon to edo tensei.

Not to mention the zetsu body just got taken down by the team, and was pinned. The Zetsu haven't been shown to be such capable fighters.

The third reason Suigetsu comments you need a jutsu to open the giant Uchiha door. This could POSSIBLY mean that only an Uchiha can open it. Because Sauske was the only one by the door in one panel as it is opening. But the next page shows Orochimaru by it as well, so it could have been him.

Any other plot holes?

Also, Orochimaru in a ZETSU body. He now has Hashirama cells, on top, of what broken powers he all ready has. Along with the four hokage. All though they still may or may not be under his control.

To be fair, I think Edo!Hashirama could take on Edo!Madara, if he was lucky. Which may be what it is all leading up to.

Hashirama vs Madara, Kakashi vs Obito, Naruto vs Sauske

[Drolyt]

Oro would really make a better final villain anyways, especially now that he has been revived. Maybe he could do the snake thing and take Madara's body, then combine his powers with Madara's and then add dragon sage mode. About the only way I can see there being a villain with as many powerups as Naruto.

I think Oro's power level has been made obsolete after the Uchiha powercreep. He was basically genjutsu'd by Itachi in part 1 flashback, didn't manage to snatch Sasuke's body and got absorbed instead and was mangled and sealed in his hydra form by Itachi's Susanoo. Kabuto in dragon sage mode was probably stronger the Orochimaru, and even he got his ass handed to him by Itachi, who was not trying to kill him. Madara and Obito have wood release and rinnegan in addition to being Uchihax. Not to mention that they are standing at the top of certain ten tailed beast.

Really, what chance would Oro have at this point?

I don't like it, really. Oro and Kabuto were more about doing their homework and being prepared kinds of ninja. Just look how many hideouts they had! But it's all swept aside in favor of meteors and giant Tengus.

I think if he had dragon sage mode and a new body with a sufficiently powerful bloodline limit he'd be a force to be reckoned with again.

I am going to try and clear up all the plot holes with this chapter.

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How did Orochimaru get the DNA? He had all four souls. I am taking a good guess that the souls can be a good DNA supplement for Edo Tensei.

Why didn't Orochimaru fix himself earlier? Three possible reasons. Over the two year break, Tsunade could've changed everything security wise. Since so many people were breaking into the village.

Second reason, was because if my theory is true, Orochimaru after using the mask, sacrifices his body to the death god. Which means he has to have another open body to jump into, after he gets his arms back. Of course, if the souls of the hokage leave, without being captured, they will probably be free. So for Oro's plan to work he needs 5 bodies. One for him, and one for each hokage. Finding 5 people to break into Konoha, and then taking on all 5 people, with no jutsu would be difficult.

Because as soon as he gets his arms back, his body will be taken by the death god. So if he tries to jump into a strong host who isn't willing, he will need to fight with them. While he is fighting over the body, the souls of the hokage may have all ready fled. The entire scene happened fairly quickly, from shinigami summon to edo tensei.

Not to mention the zetsu body just got taken down by the team, and was pinned. The Zetsu haven't been shown to be such capable fighters.

The third reason Suigetsu comments you need a jutsu to open the giant Uchiha door. This could POSSIBLY mean that only an Uchiha can open it. Because Sauske was the only one by the door in one panel as it is opening. But the next page shows Orochimaru by it as well, so it could have been him.

Any other plot holes?

Also, Orochimaru in a ZETSU body. He now has Hashirama cells, on top, of what broken powers he all ready has. Along with the four hokage. All though they still may or may not be under his control.

To be fair, I think Edo!Hashirama could take on Edo!Madara, if he was lucky. Which may be what it is all leading up to.

Hashirama vs Madara, Kakashi vs Obito, Naruto vs Sauske

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Needless to say, I enjoy recent developments. Oro has his arms back, has a new body with Hashirama's cells, and four awesome super zombies. He probably also has dragon sage mode, where else would Kabutomaru have got it?

[lord_khaine]

Needless to say, I enjoy recent developments. Oro has his arms back, has a new body with Hashirama's cells, and four awesome super zombies. He probably also has dragon sage mode, where else would Kabutomaru have got it?

Actualy Kabutomaru directly stated that he had surpassed Orochimary when he managet to find the Snake sage, and learn the sage art from him.

[darksolitaire]

Good catch, Drolyt. Didn't someone also predict that Oro will take over Sasuke and Naruto has to save him?

About the Dragon sage mode, relevant pages would be 12-13 and 16-17 from chapter 579. Oro will probably have the know-how, but does Zetsu's body stand nature energy? I can only imagine the answer being...maaybe?

[LaZodiac]

Hmm...if Orochimaru had the ability to Dragon Sage mode, he coooould use the Zetsu's body to spawn clones to copy Naruto's style of "using clones to generate energy"

[Kato]

Urgh, do we really want the original pedophile snake guy to turn into our BIG Bad? Getting defeated by his own pupil seemed to be a fitting end for me but apparently Kishi really plans to have him stick around longer... for what reason, I'm not sure. But if he really does take over Madara in the end or something else like that... it would lower my opinion of the plot again.

[jindra34]

Urgh, do we really want the original pedophile snake guy to turn into our BIG Bad? Getting defeated by his own pupil seemed to be a fitting end for me but apparently Kishi really plans to have him stick around longer... for what reason, I'm not sure. But if he really does take over Madara in the end or something else like that... it would lower my opinion of the plot again.

No matter how strong, or awesome Oro gets he is going to have a hard time beating out Obito and Madara for the Big Bad's spot just because his evil is of such a smaller scope.

[jguy]

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Is it me or did know one think "He has the 3rd Hokage, everyone is F'd" The third was called the God of Shinobi and took on his predecessors and Oro at once and won. Now he is in an undying body under Oro's control. I'm more worried about him than Mandara.

[Morph Bark]

Well, this was my first guess, though of course I didn't know how they'd get the Hokages back. Close enough to my second guess of giant Hokage face golems though.

A bit of an asspull on the mask temple though, yeah. Even with the coverup about Naruto's parents and it being outside the village, he should've learned about it soon after the invasion of Pain.

Also, the Third knew just about every nonsecret jutsu, didn't he? Oro could give Sasuke a super huge powerup with that...

but since he has Uchiha hax, he'll neglect to use it anyway.

[jindra34]

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Is it me or did know one think "He has the 3rd Hokage, everyone is F'd" The third was called the God of Shinobi and took on his predecessors and Oro at once and won. Now he is in an undying body under Oro's control. I'm more worried about him than Mandara.

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People are more likely to react that way because he has the first four hokages. In edo state. Including the one that should be able to match Madara.

[LaZodiac]

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We know the first hokage can match Madara, the third is the socalled "God of Shinobi" at max strength, and the fourth can almost match Madara, probably outmatch him. The only unknown factor is the second, but he'd probably comparable.

So yha, I think Madara's handled pretty well.

[darksolitaire]

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We know the first hokage can match Madara, the third is the socalled "God of Shinobi" at max strength, and the fourth can almost match Madara, probably outmatch him. The only unknown factor is the second, but he'd probably comparable.

So yha, I think Madara's handled pretty well.

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Canonically Second is hailed as the most powerful water release user, can use good ol Space and Time ninjitsu, Bringer of Darkness genjutsu (should counter Sharingan/Rinnegan pretty well), and is strong in Taijitsu as well. He's as OP as any Kage

He's also the inventor of Edo, I wonder if that comes into play..?

Edit: ok, 4 out of 5. It's better then I do most days.

[Ramza00]

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Canonically Second is hailed as the most powerful water release user, can use good ol Space and Time ninjitsu, Bringer of Darkness genjutsu (should counter Sharingan/Rinnegan pretty well), and is strong in Taijitsu as well. He's as OP as any Kage

He's also the inventor of Edo, I wonder if that comes into play..?

In the manga it was the first who used bringer of darkness in the anime it was the second