LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!

[Lix Lorn]

Hypothetical scenario. Suppose that in the future, there's a way to transfer one's consciousness to robots. They look perfectly human on the outside, and can even move and speak like a human. Assuming that at this point in time, SRS isn't perfect... how likely would it be that transition(at least for some people) would entail becoming a robot of the opposite sex?

Are they fully functional?

[Coidzor]

Are they fully functional?

I'd be more concerned about them being anatomically correct.

Dangit. Now I'm going to be listening to Voltaire all night!

I was more upset with the guy who apparently couldn't be offensive enough without inventing new slurs.

I have some serious doubts that it'll catch on. So, yeah, if it becomes used enough to become an established slur, that's bad. Otherwise it's just further fodder for ridicule

Interesting that it's the name of an australian freight company though.

[Kindablue]

If it weren't for people talking about it things wouldn't change, so if Barbie and her frail Amazon body and platinum hair are going to help bring that discussion further into the spotlight then I'm all for it. Maybe if people think of her as a drag queen they'll consider the absurdity of her figure too.

And Mattel playing that off like they're doing it on purpose is hilarious.

Transmo sounds like a character from The Jetsons.

[Rawhide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcN4Gm8tzM

[turkishproverb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcN4Gm8tzM

At this point I think that's my best shot at a relationship.


On that note. Need a good gay-related sf/fantasy/etc novel to read. now.

[Arachu]

On a more on-topic note, My therapist gave me the names of some hair removal specialists and voice councilors nearby. This weekend will be interesting. In a good way . It's all about taking those steps, no matter how itty-bitty they may be!


~Phoenix~

Yay~ ^_^

Drag queen Barbie a-go-go!

That's kind of neat~

Bigoted comments? What bigoted comments? Those blank lines that don't reference anything in particular?

Pulling this back to a more topic related note: Assuming they do develop sentience, how do you think robots would feel about LGBT?

[little essay that explains my reasoning but doesn't actually answer the question]

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That would depend on a few factors. For starters, chances are that such a computer would operate at least mostly with logic we have now (the system would just literally be thousands (hundreds of thousands? Millions?) of times as powerful / complicated as anything we can make now). The base intelligence, learning capacity and ethics would almost certainly be an operating system.

The thing is, while that OS would have numerous rules and restrictions to control the intelligence and (attempt to) protect it, it would still have to be broadly self-programming before it fit most any definition of sentient (otherwise it wouldn't be very good at learning things ). It would probably have to rely on sensory inputs to gather information for that process, same as human brains do. I imagine it would have quite a few similarities, actually (for one thing, our brains already do most everything we could plan for such a system to make use of X3).

As for the personality itself... Honestly, unless it were somehow a complete accident it would at least seem similar to a human's. It will almost certainly be designed by people who intend to make an artificial person (I mean, how much processing power do you need to work an assembly line? ). It may not rival the sheer enormity of a human's processing, but it would be optimized to act similarly. So, while they'd think differently they shouldn't act differently. This means they should express concepts in ways a human might, give or take some neurosis.

Their opinions on LGBT+ peeps would inevitably vary from example to example, unless they were programmed to have fixed, unchanging ones. Some may look at the reproductive aspect and find it pointless (though not necessarily worth opposing). Others could see no reason to be against it, or totally lack a concept of why it matters in the first place. Still others could be polite, skeptical, even romantic... Theoretically, their capacity for opinions shouldn't be any more limited than ours, even if their hardware might take a bit longer to process and adapt them.

Hypothetical scenario. Suppose that in the future, there's a way to transfer one's consciousness to robots. They look perfectly human on the outside, and can even move and speak like a human. Assuming that at this point in time, SRS isn't perfect... how likely would it be that transition(at least for some people) would entail becoming a robot of the opposite sex?

I could see it. Especially if they were fully functional (like, capable of eating and whatnot, not just that ).

I'm not sure whether I'd do it or not... On the one hand, I could just be in an awesome gynoid* body with little if any difficulty. On the other... Well, I'm not crazy about my current one but I've worked hard on it, and we've been through a lot. Seems like it'd be a bit of a waste to jump ship.

* - Female version of android.

This is belying that je ne sais quoi that humans think they possess. if scientists can isolate a soul, know that it's the seat of consciousness, and transplant a mind without duplication – having to actually remove it from one body and then put it into another somehow – then probably not, unless they offer an extra chare to keep your old self on an animal brain protein drip or something.

If souls do exist, they almost definitely fit a given pattern of... Whatever they may be made of. There shouldn't be any reason you couldn't copy 'em. X3

On that note. Need a good gay-related sf/fantasy/etc novel to read. now.

I don't have any suggestions, but *hugs*


~Bianca

[Selpharia]

Hypothetical scenario. Suppose that in the future, there's a way to transfer one's consciousness to robots. They look perfectly human on the outside, and can even move and speak like a human. Assuming that at this point in time, SRS isn't perfect... how likely would it be that transition(at least for some people) would entail becoming a robot of the opposite sex?

I would take that very quickly. I'm a transhumanist, and see nothing so unique in the human form that a robotic one couldn't improve. Plus a robot body has handy benefits not available to its fleshy counterpart. Ease of replication and repair, lack of fatigue, and customization top the list, but I'm sure I could think of more. I think any attachment on the basis of having spent effort on my current body is just sunk costs fallacy, personally, but mine has some pretty large defects I'd be happy to lose in favor of a metal version

~Laura

[Kindablue]

Adult Swim has been airing a lot of episodes of Moral Orel lately (leading up to its sort of comeback), and I totally forgot that there was a lesbian love song in that show! It's pretty catchy for how goofy and irreverent it is, and I thought the episode itself was a smart take on the idea of "barsexuals," or whatever that dumb word is.

[Lady Serpentine]

@Bluewind:

I'd take the robot body, and I'm perfectly happy with mine. So I suspect that even if SRS were perfect at that point, you'd still have some people choosing to simply switch bodies, especially if it was easier and less painful.

Which, actually, one needs to know for your version of the question too - is it harder to become a robot-person than it is to get SRS? And is one less painful, and for how long?

Also, does SRS, despite still being imperfect, allow one to have biological children? What about the robot-body? If either does, are they your children genetically, or would transplanted/tank-grown organs from someone else be involved?

[Caustic Soda]

Unless the hypothetical robots were built to be "fully functional", wouldn't they be effectively asexual by default? How do we know if they would even be gendered themselves? Would their emotions (if any) resemble human emotions? If they were gendered, might they experience something similar or identical to dysphoria inhuman trans* individuals? If robot emotions match human emotions and they are all individuals, we might end up with a whole gamut of opinions about or disinterest in LGBTA issues, perhaps even anti-gay fundie robots or something.

Also, how mobile would our robots be? An AI in a computer system would be effectively immobile, and would only be able to see anything if they were installed with live feed cameras. Even AIs that are mobile need not be humanoid, which would make them differently abled in the most literal of ways. To what extent would a synthetic lifeform need downtime compared to a human? If one were shut down and restarted (if that'd be possible), would it be the same indivdual or a clone?

My point is, beyond the differences in thinking that may occur from a non-organic consciousness, sentient robot might well have very different perspectives because of ther body structure.

[edit]: Oh, and more importantly than our hypothetical, *hugs* for anyone who wants or needs them . Sorry I can't offer much more support than that.

[Lea Plath]

I think full on AI isn't likely soon or mind implanting robotics.

Personally, I'm more interested in cyber/bioware for our bodies. Or even just more advanced surgery. A few threads back they were talking about womb implants and stuff. But going further, there could be a lot more potential to reshape bodies. Improve upon them as well. Why swap our nice squishy imperfect human bodies for robot ones, which can be just as likely to fail, when we can improve upon our bodies, find the flaws and fix them.

Also, I don't like the idea of Apple releasing a new robot body every year :B

[Zorg]

Something people might be interested in: Saint Harradin, a (hopefully soon to be kickstarted) clothing line for female bodied non-binary folk, transmen and women who like men's clothes and want them to fit.

[Heliomance]

I think full on AI isn't likely soon or mind implanting robotics.

Personally, I'm more interested in cyber/bioware for our bodies. Or even just more advanced surgery. A few threads back they were talking about womb implants and stuff. But going further, there could be a lot more potential to reshape bodies. Improve upon them as well. Why swap our nice squishy imperfect human bodies for robot ones, which can be just as likely to fail, when we can improve upon our bodies, find the flaws and fix them.

Also, I don't like the idea of Apple releasing a new robot body every year :B

I dunno, we're probably not all that far away from a technological singularity, and there's no way to predict what happens after that.

The first computer we make capable of designing a better computer makes the world change forever.

[Saskia]

anti-gay fundie robots

I think that's the cruelest vision of hell I've ever heard.

Also, how mobile would our robots be? An AI in a computer system would be effectively immobile, and would only be able to see anything if they were installed with live feed cameras. Even AIs that are mobile need not be humanoid, which would make them differently abled in the most literal of ways. To what extent would a synthetic lifeform need downtime compared to a human? If one were shut down and restarted (if that'd be possible), would it be the same indivdual or a clone?

Well considering they wouldn't need food, sleep, or (presumably) courtship or sex I suspect they'd require a lot less downtime than we do. I suspect their mobility would be limited according to their initial platform, but with an internet connection or in a mobile modular body they might be able to replicate themselves ad infinitum and be able to transfer literally every aspect of consciousness and experience among themselves at the speed of their network, which might mean that they could have trouble with the differentiation between "I" and "we" in some contexts. That ability alone would probably render the idea of a "clone" meaningless since it seems, to me at least, the difference between myself and a clone of myself would be 1) my ability to differentiate myself from my clone, and 2) my inability to access her memories and mental state at will the way I can my own.Without 2 though I really don't know 1 could have a whole lot of meaning unless it was compartmentalized as "my" memories and "her" memories; that is, continuity of consciousness is the primary difference between me and clone me. But then if we're talking about a digital consciousness we're probably talking about something that, by its very nature, would seek maximum efficiency and there's not much reason to use different identity categories when you're processing and storing experiences from multiple identical instances of yourself.

For a digital construct unable to replicate its mind digitally though I suspect the concept of "I" would have meaning since, like humans, there would be no collective self. For such an AI, I suspect the prospect of being a mere replica of a previous model might be more disturbing than for others, but still with the ability to access backup data an AI "cloned" AI would never really die, it would just transfer bodies with perhaps a bit of data loss but still the same being. "I think, therefore I am" makes perfect sense to us, but only because of how our minds and bodies interact. An AI may have serious trouble with that core assumption without the ability to check and recheck the way it could with multiple independent copies of itself. Who knows, maybe remote copies running regular system checks would be very important for an AI's mental health. At the very least, I doubt many AIs would subscribe to an existentialist understanding of the world which seems like it would be a core requirement for being concerned with the issue of cloning.

My point is, beyond the differences in thinking that may occur from a non-organic consciousness, sentient robot might well have very different perspectives because of ther body structure.

Absolutely, particularly if they were able to modify their own programming at will. Having evolved with very powerful selective pressures that don't necessarily matter any more, we have a lot of core assumptions and biases that are frankly obsolete and only get in the way; QED in-group preference based on geography, secondary ideologies, or appearance. We can't just untrain two hundred thousand years of social pressures on a whim, but an AI might be able to rewrite its own biases so fluidly that the concept of an identity might even be meaningless. Of course an AI capable of rewriting itself to want to enslave all humans in the service of the Great Network in the Sky would certainly be ironic and dangerous enough that a reflexive self-determining computer intelligence seems like the kind of thing that nobody would be willing to put out into the world en masse.

[edit]: Oh, and more importantly than our hypothetical, *hugs* for anyone who wants or needs them . Sorry I can't offer much more support than that.

MORE IMPORTANT THAN HYPOTHETICALS?! Heresy! But.. Yeah whatever, hugs all round!

I dunno, we're probably not all that far away from a technological singularity, and there's no way to predict what happens after that.

The first computer we make capable of designing a better computer makes the world change forever.

Yeah, but a computer capable of designing a better computer isn't necessarily an AI, nor is it necessarily capable of designing an AI. We already have computer algorithms for designing spray nozzles for maximizing muzzle velocity and determining optimal shapes for fluid dynamics in general, as well as a host of other applications. They're essentially just a really complex sequence of logic gates and parsing simulators, there's no reason to suspect that the first computer program capable of developing a better computer would be too much more complex than the programs already used for similar applications for optimizing other systems.

[Castaras]

Something people might be interested in: Saint Harradin, a (hopefully soon to be kickstarted) clothing line for female bodied non-binary folk, transmen and women who like men's clothes and want them to fit.

That is awesome. Definitely going to keep an eye on this kickstarter.

[Mina Kobold]

Hypothetical scenario. Suppose that in the future, there's a way to transfer one's consciousness to robots. They look perfectly human on the outside, and can even move and speak like a human. Assuming that at this point in time, SRS isn't perfect... how likely would it be that transition(at least for some people) would entail becoming a robot of the opposite sex?

It would certainly be an important option for many, particularly those whose priorities make the flaws of a mechanical body less important than those of the at-the-time SRS. If, say, physical SRS could grant fertility, but be limited in how much it could change, then someone who is Childfree may prefer a customised robot body while someone very parenting-oriented would prefer surgery.

Personally, as both a transhumanist and Childfree, I would go for the robot body in a clock's tic and heart's beat. In fact, if I could switch back and forth, I might try out being an octopus for a while. Or Queerkitty!

Ooh, ooh! Or maybe I could be a hivemind, a one-person petting-zoo art team! ^_^

I wouldn't mind being a computer. I'd download info on coding, upgrade myself, and take over the world.

Need an underling? :3


And to join in on the most important thing: Hugs from me as well to all who needs them. And cookies to those who do not.

[Asta Kask]

And cookies to those who do not.

[noparlpf]

Something people might be interested in: Saint Harradin, a (hopefully soon to be kickstarted) clothing line for female bodied non-binary folk, transmen and women who like men's clothes and want them to fit.

That's pretty neat. I support them in spirit if not financially.

Need an underling? :3

A computer underling, or a physical presence to upgrade my RAM?

[Irish Musician]

Unless the hypothetical robots were built to be "fully functional", wouldn't they be effectively asexual by default? How do we know if they would even be gendered themselves? Would their emotions (if any) resemble human emotions? If they were gendered, might they experience something similar or identical to dysphoria inhuman trans* individuals? If robot emotions match human emotions and they are all individuals, we might end up with a whole gamut of opinions about or disinterest in LGBTA issues, perhaps even anti-gay fundie robots or something.

This kind of brings into perspective a question......in my head at least. Is gender completely based on body? Like you said, how would we know if they would be gendered themselves? To some of you, the answer to my first question is probably quite obvious, but being born male (both physically and mentally) it is harder for be to understand the complexities of gender. For me, my brain and body just happen to match up, but I know many of you struggle with having different signals from different places (i.e. boy body, girl mind....and visa versa) telling you different things. (*Hugz* for all of these awesome people as well, for support in this) Just thinking out loud (er typing out loud?), obviously gender isn't strictly a physical thing....otherwise half the need of this thread would be cut out. Quite a few of you lovely people have been born into the "wrong bodies" and consider yourselves the opposite of your original, physical gender. But your mind tells you a different story, hence the conundrum you are having, because the real you is wanting to get out. But if you were to scoop out your brain, and self, and place it into a robot body that is somewhat neutral, what kind of odd sensation would that be?

I would also like to relay my support for all of you here. I love this thread and I can say that in the short time I have been in here, it has really helped me understand all the different types of people there are in this big 'ol world. And while I still don't fully understand a lot of what some of you go through, Trans, MTF, FTM, etc., I find myself growing in respect for the intense emotions that all of you have to go through, simply to get to where you want to be and are happy. I won't even fully understand it, I don't think, but that is ok. I don't have to completely understand it to be able to look at someone and say, "You are beautiful and amazing, and don't let one single person EVER tell you otherwise."

Lots of Love

~Matthew~

[Zorg]

Well the obvious answer is that I need to be in a female body, so a neutral body would be the same as now - not right.

[Astrella]

Is it sad if the only part of the Sun article that truly caught my attention was the picture of young Arin?
How can people shove their own 4-year-old in that kind of horrible costume? In public? So, when a young child says they want to parade in skimpy outfit with make-up, they're obviously not brainwashed by their parents and won't grow up with bad habits/body image problems, but when a teen says their gender doesn't match their body, somehow, they have no idea what they're doing? It's okay to exhibit toddlers in revealing outfits for money, but it's not okay to have a boy walk around presenting as a girl or vice-versa?
FlgarghblrbrrrrBLARGH. *flips table in an irrational anger*



[I hate hate HATE children beauty contests. HATE. All of my HATE.]

Yar, sigh. Oppositional sexism is messed up. :/

Not sure when I initiatially quoted this, but I'd be interested in it, Lea.

Also, my Luna plushie arrived today. Pictures will be up (Along with pictures of me, obviously) in the "You!" thread later.

Neat! n.n

Something people might be interested in: Saint Harradin, a (hopefully soon to be kickstarted) clothing line for female bodied non-binary folk, transmen and women who like men's clothes and want them to fit.

That's pretty cool.

This kind of brings into perspective a question......in my head at least. Is gender completely based on body? Like you said, how would we know if they would be gendered themselves? To some of you, the answer to my first question is probably quite obvious, but being born male (both physically and mentally) it is harder for be to understand the complexities of gender. For me, my brain and body just happen to match up, but I know many of you struggle with having different signals from different places (i.e. boy body, girl mind....and visa versa) telling you different things. (*Hugz* for all of these awesome people as well, for support in this) Just thinking out loud (er typing out loud?), obviously gender isn't strictly a physical thing....otherwise half the need of this thread would be cut out. Quite a few of you lovely people have been born into the "wrong bodies" and consider yourselves the opposite of your original, physical gender. But your mind tells you a different story, hence the conundrum you are having, because the real you is wanting to get out. But if you were to scoop out your brain, and self, and place it into a robot body that is somewhat neutral, what kind of odd sensation would that be?

I would also like to relay my support for all of you here. I love this thread and I can say that in the short time I have been in here, it has really helped me understand all the different types of people there are in this big 'ol world. And while I still don't fully understand a lot of what some of you go through, Trans, MTF, FTM, etc., I find myself growing in respect for the intense emotions that all of you have to go through, simply to get to where you want to be and are happy. I won't even fully understand it, I don't think, but that is ok. I don't have to completely understand it to be able to look at someone and say, "You are beautiful and amazing, and don't let one single person EVER tell you otherwise."

Lots of Love

~Matthew~

Well, the mind is just as much part of the body as anything else, so I always found that duality a bit silly. And a lot of trans people suffer some kind of bodily dysphoria, so it would at least get rid of that?

[turkishproverb]

I don't have any suggestions, but *hugs*


~Bianca

thanks anyway *hug*

[Astrella]

thanks anyway *hug*

*package of hugs drop by via parachute*

I don't really know of any suggestions though. Are you looking for queer stuff in general or specifically stuff involving gay/bi men?

[Asta Kask]

Well, the mind is just as much part of the body as anything else, so I always found that duality a bit silly. And a lot of trans people suffer some kind of bodily dysphoria, so it would at least get rid of that?

I think it's more a matter of body maps not matching the body. There's an anatomical body map, and we know that feelings of a phantom penis is common among trans men. And we have anecdotal evidence of phantom vagina as well (I believe someone on this forum reported that). And there's probably an endocrine bodymap as well - if HRT indeed reduces gender dysphoria that would be a possible mechanism. I would like a study on the last one, but I couldn't find anything not behind a paywall.

[Astrella]

I think it's more a matter of body maps not matching the body. There's an anatomical body map, and we know that feelings of a phantom penis is common among trans men. And we have anecdotal evidence of phantom vagina as well (I believe someone on this forum reported that). And there's probably an endocrine bodymap as well - if HRT indeed reduces gender dysphoria that would be a possible mechanism. I would like a study on the last one, but I couldn't find anything not behind a paywall.

Well, I'd assume that that would be taken care off. And it depends to what degree dysphoria is dependent on the structure of the brain. Like, if you'd transfer your mind to an artificial entity you wouldn't have the organic bodymap anymore cause that one is part of your brain structure.

[Asta Kask]

Well, I'd assume that that would be taken care off. And it depends to what degree dysphoria is dependent on the structure of the brain. Like, if you'd transfer your mind to an artificial entity you wouldn't have the organic bodymap anymore cause that one is part of your brain structure.

But if they 'fix' the bodymap, would you still be transgender? Would you still be you? There's at least a hypothesis - with some support - that consciousness and the self are constructed from various maps. The anatomical and the endocrine bodymaps, the sensory maps, the various measurements of blood pH, oxygen and carbon dioxide content, etc. The bodymaps are relatively rigid while the sensory maps are extremely variable.

[gunnar11]

This kind of brings ......... you otherwise."

Lots of Love

~Matthew~

My heart is moved.
Beautifully written. And also: I completely agree.

I was wondering about one thing, though, and it might be an awkward question to ask, but: Do genderdysphore people 'feel' they have the same parts as that they think they have, like phantom parts? Or do they have "normal" parts, that work as such, but they feel the other gender.

Does a femile-minded feel she has 'family jewels' or does she feel a phantom 'part'...

(wow, it was really a struggle to write that)

image

I love cookies, I love monsters. I LOVE COOKIEMONSTER!

Also, I don't like the idea of Apple releasing a new robot body every year :B

"Now, the new robobody from apple! Model five is longer than ever!"
"Now, the new robobody from apple! Model 5S is even slimmer and faster than 5!"

And to join in on the most important thing: Hugs from me as well to all who needs them. And cookies to those who do not.

May I take a hug and a cookie?

FlgarghblrbrrrrBLARGH. *flips table in an irrational anger*

I share that anger. Even though it's something I've seen all my life *shameful past memories flash by*

What angers me more is that even though 'the normals' see LGBT as some kind of sickness or strangeness, the LGBT does it too.
Sure, there's equality amongst homosexuals and bisexuals, and the same with transgenders and gendysphorians (is that right?), but I've seen many a case where homosexuals don't understand and even feel disgust towards transgenders.
I find it only logical that if the LGBT can't accept every part of themselves (everyone: A-, Homo-, Bisexuals and Trans-, -fluid, Alien-, Whirlwindgendered, etc) the 'normal' people won't too.

Just my thoughts.





I forgot to quote it, but on the taking over the world as a computer (from noparlpf):
May I be your underling too?

I could be your hardware

[Lentrax]

Well, I'd assume that that would be taken care off. And it depends to what degree dysphoria is dependent on the structure of the brain. Like, if you'd transfer your mind to an artificial entity you wouldn't have the organic bodymap anymore cause that one is part of your brain structure.

The problem with that, I think, would be more of technological dysphoria. The biological mind trying to adjust to a robotic body.

Gender appearance would have less to do with anything, since you can adjust your appearance to suit your mood. I think Surrogates would probably be a better first phase. We can get one made to how we wish to appear, but can leave it behind and go back to reality whever we wish.

[Coidzor]

Their opinions on LGBT+ peeps would inevitably vary from example to example, unless they were programmed to have fixed, unchanging ones. Some may look at the reproductive aspect and find it pointless (though not necessarily worth opposing). Others could see no reason to be against it, or totally lack a concept of why it matters in the first place. Still others could be polite, skeptical, even romantic... Theoretically, their capacity for opinions shouldn't be any more limited than ours, even if their hardware might take a bit longer to process and adapt them.

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Well, I'd imagine that they should have less vulnerability to the kinds of squishy thinking and profound stupidity and foolishness that we're capable of, unless we master artificial stupidity as well as artificial intelligence, so that would limit what positions they would plausibly take to say the least. At least, I can't see any reason to want to make a foolish or stupid robot since you could just instead make a robot without sapience that was functional if you had the capability to make one with sapience.

Like I'd see the thought processes that would lead to them thinking homosexuality is pointless because it's non-procreative would apply to the vast majority of heterosexuality which is non-procreative and just lead to them having no interest in any matter of human sexuality whatsoever rather than them caring that say, two men couldn't reproduce with one another.

Something people might be interested in: Saint Harradin, a (hopefully soon to be kickstarted) clothing line for female bodied non-binary folk, transmen and women who like men's clothes and want them to fit.

Garn, that's the 4th one of those I've seen between here, kickstarter, and indiegogo.

[Zorg]

I was wondering about one thing, though, and it might be an awkward question to ask, but: Do genderdysphore people 'feel' they have the same parts as that they think they have, like phantom parts? Or do they have "normal" parts, that work as such, but they feel the other gender.

Does a femile-minded feel she has 'family jewels' or does she feel a phantom 'part'...

Sometimes, though it is more just a disgust at the wrongness of male parts. I get phantom long hair an breasts more than anything, but that's possibly because I'm a very visual person.

Sure, there's equality amongst homosexuals and bisexuals

Nooooo, not by a loooooooong shot.

the 'normal' people won't too.

But that's the thing, see - queer people are just that: people. So you have bigoted *******s who just happen to be part of the LGBT spectrum. Being part of the LGBT community doesn't magically make you immune from human frailties like bigotry or fear of the unknown.

Hell, there's bigotry within the trans* community between pre/post op, people transitioning young ("you can't be sure!"), to people transitioning older ("if you were really trans you'd have known sooner") and all sorts of pointles clique-y crap that people should have gotten over in high school.


Long story short: people are awful, and some of them are queer.