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2012-10-29, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Sadly, the Sceptics community has had a lot of problems with that lately. Particularly regarding anyone ever mentioning feminism, which really became apparent under the hatred directed at Rebecca Watson. Hopefully we will eventually get better, but it is a long way until the majority lives up to the scepticism that we are supposed to have. ;_;
On a positive note, it seems intersectional feminism (Feminism that tries to work with causes against racism and transphobia, among others) is really getting more popular among sceptics. Yay! ^_^
My sentiments exactly. They are amazing and fascinating posts, wish I had time to write that much about science.
I am an amateur at costuming at best, but may I suggest a simplification of the concept? A half-face mask or a split-in-the-middle mask may be a good way to achieve the effect without needing to learn how to do advanced make-up in two days.
Making the associated hair/wig and clothing more exaggerated might also be a good idea, I think. I really wish I had the chance to do that kind of stuff myself. ^_^'
I like that classification, thank you for posting it. ^_^
I think I would be very high on the familial and platonic loves. Sexual love is very much not there, but romantic may be. :3
Demoromantic: Buy the full version to continue the relationship? X3Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-29, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Saskia: Lead should float on mercury. I'm such a nerd.
Succubus: I feel demonromantic - could you come over for a a candlelit dinner later? Tell me which window you'll use as entrance - I intend to strew rosepetals on the floor to show the way to the kitchen.
*ahem*
Regarding plasticity/rigidity of LGBTA traits - this is again a red herring. It's fascinating because of what it tells us about the human brain and psyche, but it's utterly irrelevant to the question of LGBTA rights. Let's say that we found a way to alter someone's sexual orientation - so what? It would still be wrong to use it on someone's without their consent (we'd have to watch so that bigoted or well-meaning parents don't use it on their kids, but that's not more complex than saying to parents that they can't cut off a kid's ear).Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-10-29, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-29, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
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2012-10-29, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
The internet suggests it might have been "The Muppets Take Manhattan".
Jude P.
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2012-10-29, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
I feel like this is just miscommunication. When I said "scientific skepticism" I meant a (mostly American) political/philosophical movement based on empiricism and, well, skepticism. Most stoics fixed shoes or played the organ, and I was talking about them more than I was Zeno, so to speak. While what you say is true in reference to professional scientists, that wasn't what Coidzor was responding to.
In proper science, ethics influences the methodology but it does not and cannot influence the results. If the results show or can even be skewed to show any slight glimpse of legitimacy of anti-whoever people, they will be abused to the fullest extent possible.... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.
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2012-10-29, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
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2012-10-29, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Ugh...I'm sorry I haven't been around to be helpful/supportive/silly as often as usual. I'm still having a rough time, apparently.
SpoilerBeing out to my friends and family hasn't changed any of the things I was hoping it would. I've asked both my group of friends and my parents to refer to me using female pronouns, but both groups have either forgotten, or else are too uncomfortable to do it.
The reason why I was so anxious to come out to my parents was because I don't want to be a secret anymore. But that's exactly how they're treating this. "No, you can't tell this person; Don't tell that person, either! You should just wait to do anything until you've gotten a permanent job...and gone to grad school (part time) and graduated from there...it's only a few more years, it can't be that bad, can it?"
I've started to feel really weird, too. Like, every morning when I get up for work, when I'm buttoning up my shirt it feels like I'm literally locking myself in a cage. There have been times when I just want to rip all of my clothes to shreds, so that I'm forced to go get new ones.
I feel like I'm lost - coming out was the big first step I needed to take to start along my path, but now that I've done that...I don't know where to go, and my parents are very nervous about "letting" me go anywhere. And I can't talk to my therapist about it, either - now that I've let them into that world, my parents keep wanting to talk to her. And since I don't want to just sign a release for them to talk about whatever, that means I have to bring one of them along every time I go, where we rehash things I've already figured out and dealt with ad naseum, talk about things that have no bearing whatsoever ("Well, what if he's just a transvestite, and that's it?"; "He's never really been in an adult relationship. Do you think that if he was, that could change things?").
Plus other things that are against board rules to talk about, all in all everything seems to haev settled into a big ball of gloom...
So, how is everyone elses day ?"It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale." --Iroh
LGBTAitP! If you want to talk, learn, or have some fun, stop by!
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2012-10-29, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
SpoilerYou have no need to apologise at all. What your parents are doing is past neglectful, it is plain evil. I understand fully well that they are concerned, but they are being directly opposed to the idea of supporting who their child is, rather focussing on anything that can force things to fit in their boxes. That is just... Gah!
Sorry, sorry. I should not rant at your family. My apologies. While I am still quite scared by their actions, I think there might be a way to help them. Is there any way you could ask them to consider how they would feel at your age if they had to lie about something important (perhaps their passions or heritage?) for several years or be disallowed from being themselves and told that a few years was "only" a short time?
Another possibility is telling them that their actions are emotionally harmful. They must at least understand that no matter how much they think they are right, they should not push it to the point that their child is miserable.
I really hope some of that helps. That is a terrible situation. ;_;
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2012-10-29, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
SpoilerI'm sorry Phee, the first step is always the hardest, esp on a Journey that is going to take awhile, because in your head you know it will take time to get done. And try not to fault your parents too much. It is going to be hard for them to think of you one way, when, this whole time, you have been another way. This, however, will get better too. They will start to understand what it is you are going through and what it is you are trying to tell them, and eventually they will stop and listen, and finally hear you. How long this will take, who knows?! But hopefully they will start to come around. From the sounds of it, they are still trying to figure out their own emotions about it all, so give them some time to figure their own heads out, and then you all can start figuring out each others.
All of this is said with LOTS of love, and in no way am I trying to come across that you are somehow at fault or that you did anything wrong, or that you parents are jerks or something.....because I am not and you didn't in the least and they don't seem to be (just kinda confused). But big life changes take time, esp for those around you that make take the selfish route and worry about how this is affecting their lives, as opposed to trying to figure out how they can help you. I won't begin to try and say I know what you are going through, because in all honesty, I have no idea what it is like....all I can say is be patient with them. I know you have had this much patience so far, waiting to come out, etc., but just hold on for a little bit longer and things will start to get better. I truly believe people can do beautiful thing and be wonderful people, if we let each other. You have already started that process by coming out of the ashes of your former self, your parents just have to follow your example and come out of the ashes of their former world view, into a bright and gorgeous new view of the bright and gorgeous new YOU.
So keep up hope, Phee, things will be better.
Also, much hugs and love to you.....and a LOT of SUPPORT!!!
I don't think they are meaning to be neglectful. They are just not sure how to process this change in their daughter's life. Though all the advice you gave Phee is awesome stuff, and I completely agree that she should use that advice. Talk to them, again, and tell them that this isn't something that can be "changed" due to a relationship or anything....this is who you are, not a phase or anything. And like our little Kobold said, no need to ever apologize
~Matthew~Last edited by Irish Musician; 2012-10-29 at 02:09 PM.
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2012-10-29, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Oh, Phee. I'm sorry. This must be very rough for you. I know that its been said before, but I don't think they are purposefully trying to upset you. It will just take time. Maybe just an occasional correction. Reminding everyone, respectfully, of the proper pronouns and identification. It will be hard. it will take time.
But you are a beautiful person, Phee, and deserve to be who you wish.
Everyone else will see it too, just be patient.
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2012-10-29, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Interesting talk just gave me an experiment you could do with asexuals. It's completely non-invasive and painless - all you need to do is measure galvanic skin response, like a lie detector.
Galvanic skin response (GSR) is a measure of excitation. If you show a normal person* pictures of violent imagery, they show a GSR. Likewise if you show them pictures of naked men or women (depending on the preferences of test subject), you get a GSR. So my prediction is that a person who is asexual (and probably a demisexual as well) would show no such response.
And no, I can't think of something actually useful with the experiment (unless you wanted to screen for asexuality for some bizarre reason). And no, if you show a GSR that doesn't mean you're not asexual - it means my prediction is wrong.
*people with damage to their frontal lobes do not, and it is speculated that this is connected to their problems.Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
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2012-10-29, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
*hugs*
Are they forcing themselves on you to go with you to your therapist? Cause I think you should have that time alone; especially since dealing with your family is something you should be able to talk with your therapist about.
Hmm, about the pronouns, I guess there's the option of constantly correcting them about it, but that might end up getting frustrating. Ugh, I know it's very frustrating to feel like, well, it sorta feels like "did you guys actually listen?"...
Mrrr. I have an idea though. Do you have any way of presenting more feminine (at home / around your friends)? Clothes etc...? Even if that's not really the style you want to go for it could serve as a bit of a reminder to them / a sign you're 'serious' about this? (Yes, that's silly but it might help.)
And the whole looking yourself into a cage rang really true for me; so you have all my sympathies.
Also, pm me for my skype / email, whatever you prefer for the non-board allowed stuff. I mean, obviously you don't have to talk about it (with me), but I really don't mind and I'd like to help if I can, so if you want to, don't hesitate.
*hugs*
-----
Own ramblings:
SpoilerUgh, I hate facial hair so much. It makes me super self conscious about even leaving my room right now, I hate it so much and no matter what I do I just can't shave without it hurting or being rashy.
Also having a little freak out about going to the store to buy a few tops which I really want to do but bleeeh....Last edited by Astrella; 2012-10-29 at 04:32 PM.
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2012-10-29, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
As everyone else has already said, coming out is a hard process. To be honest, trying to relate to you is a bit hard for me, as I'm very much stuck in my closet at the moment. Nevertheless I think you shouldn't blame your parents and friends so much. This is a big change; it takes a while to acustom to that.
What I do think you should do is ask them to be a bit more thoughtful. To not question wether it is true or how come it is true that you are who you are, but to try to live with it and accept it. It'll only hurt you more if they try to fight it instead of understand it.
Maybe you should also spend a little more time with your friends. They are the ones that will be able to support you when you feel down, empathise with you like always before. This little 'change' doesn't affect your personality, and as such, it shouldn't be a problem.
From the experience I have recollected from others friends accept it first, family second. And to have the support of your friends already makes a person feel a lot better.
But now, to answer your question: My day has been pretty boring, and I've been goofing off, while I should be learning cuz I have a history exam tomorrow! *runs off*
*runs back*
I forgot! *BIG hug* We're here for you
*runs off again*
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2012-10-29, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
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2012-10-29, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
*So many hugs for Pheonix and Lena*
~Bianca
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2012-10-29, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
*hugs*
Ugh, that's miserable, Phee. I think you really should see if you can get your time with your therapist back for yourself, since it saeems like havin that be taken over by your parents is the biggest thing, since you don't have a privaqte space to talk about this (except with us I suppose, but that's not a meatspace option) Maybe you can ask your therapist for ideas for resources for your parents to use. The good thing is that they seem to trust her, and so they might go for something she suggests. If you can propose this without being confrontational, or get your therapist to mention it herself, then at least you can regain a little breathing space. Also, getting them to find a space to air their concerns (without you) with someone knowledgeable and ezxperienced in these things can only help in the long run
As for pronouns, you may be starting with expectations a little high here. Most of the people you've asked to change have known you for awhile, so its going to be hard to get them to switch, since you're firmly labeled in their minds. Maybe just getting them to use less masculine forms of address (if they use the classics like "man" a lot) would be a good start. I can't say much on presenting more femininely, but some subtle things like Astrelia mentioned might be a good start. Their worries about grad school and a career seem very pragmatic to me, so those at least might be dealt with by adopting a similar approach: come up with several options that satisfy their worries about your financial/job security and get you what you want earlier than their way will. All these solutions are band-aids, and really painful, but the cynic in me thinks they might be the best you're going to get in the short term
One other thing though, that can be easy to lose sight of when they're taking it upon themselves to gatekeep for you, is that they are doing what they think is best and out of good motives. This doesn't make them any less wrongheaded or hurtful, but it's good to keep in mind so you don't start a confrontation where the only possible outcome is that you lose and they restrict you more, and may help you get to common ground with them faster than if you deal with this another way, since their hand is objectively better than yours at the moment.
I'm sorry if that sounds really cold and heartless. I wanted to jsut offer comfort and a little bit of advice, but I let my inner brutal pragmatist out a little too much. *Hugs* again, and I hope you manage to work things out with them so that you can be truer to who you are.
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2012-10-29, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
...Oh. Well that explains a lot. lol
Also I'm not entirely sure what "totes" means, except a bag or a totem
That's true, but I can understand why so many people have such a bad taste in their mouths about feminism. Placing my own opinions aside, a disturbing number of prominent feminists have proposed artificially reducing the male population to some small percentage of the total population. Granted, any more than zero is a disturbing number for something like that, but the fact that they are not ridiculed into submission as is wont to happen with detestable people with detestable ideas in prominent positions suggests tacit approval, or at least prioritizing group cohesion over anything else; either way, it doesn't offer a good image. The fact that Mary Daly was ever given the time of day is disgraceful enough, that she was given a position as professor at such a respectable establishment as Boston College will remain a black mark on humanity's collective soul. Breeding out gays and Jews and selective abortions against girls is horrendously bigoted and unacceptable, but getting rid of men is taking a brave and noble stand? Hardly, and all of us here surely know that, as do the vast majority of people, feminists included. The problem feminism has is the same problem many other groups have though, be they religious or philosophical or political, where the most extreme and rabid members are often the loudest and most outspoken members, and that gives the entire group a bad reputation, deserved or not. What it shares with other dogmatic ideologies is a large degree of silence from members who act out taking the idea to extremes for fear of looking weak or not unified, or simply because "Well obviously that's not REAL feminism! Only a fool would think that's what we support!" While it may be true that it's not mainstream feminism, they ARE the most prominent voices for feminism in mainstream society. Finally, while the patriarchy model may be interesting and explain some things very well, it doesn't explain all problems in gender studies; "Men get harsher prison sentences than women because men rigged the system against women" requires an explanation that is... less than intuitive.
If I'm being honest, it only makes sense then that the self-described skeptical community which purports to have such a problem with dogmatic groupthink would find large swaths of feminism dubious, and again if I'm being honest I don't know that they're entirely off-base, either.
SpoilerThat is... Harsh. I feel for you. One of my most darling friends is going through kind of the same thing. I wish it was easier for you. I respect that it's difficult for the parents since transsexualism for most older people is something entirely foreign and thus more frightening even than being gay, but it galls me all the same that they can't understand how painful it is for you when they act like transsexualism is even in the ballpark of transvestitism. It's like mistaking a baseball bat for a pen. I wish I could offer more than sympathy.
Originally Posted by Asta Kask
Let's say that we found a way to alter someone's sexual orientation - so what? It would still be wrong to use it on someone's without their consent (we'd have to watch so that bigoted or well-meaning parents don't use it on their kids, but that's not more complex than saying to parents that they can't cut off a kid's ear).Last edited by Saskia; 2012-10-29 at 07:53 PM. Reason: My SPAG, it is the worst.
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2012-10-29, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-29, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-29, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
I want to make the remark that prominent here means mostly academic though. People from other currents of feminism like womanism are just as prominent; just less in the spotlight cause of not being white / academic.
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2012-10-30, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
SpoilerIf you remember my rant from the last thread, I totally understand where you're coming from with feeling more restricted than before and the increasing weirdness.
I'm quite surprised your therapist is allowing your parents in still, it seems like a conflict of interests as they were hired as your therapist, not a relationship one. I'd definitely talk to the therapist and say that you need your space back (Selpharia's suggestion to get them to remove your parents is a good one).
And yes, it's hard, but you might have to tell your parents you need your own therapist to talk about your personal issues. Maybe there's a parent's support group around or online they could get info from?
In regards to them trying to hold you back, try pointing out how much faster it will be if you do it now (while you're young) and that you'll be transitioned before trying to find a job so it'll be easier than trying to transition at work.
Perhaps because I'm older and jaded, but if they told me not to tell people or whatever, I'd tell them that I'll tell whatever people I want about my business, as that is my decision and nobody elses.
It is harder being younger and more dependent on them, but they're going to have to deal with this sooner or later.
So, how is everyone elses day ?Princess in the streets.
Princess in the sheets.
Don't touch me I'm royalty.
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2012-10-30, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-30, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Co-Founder of LUTAS.
For all you lesser superheroes out there.
Custom STO avatar by Durkoala.
A novella about a wizard and a rock star, cross-dimensional travel, and healing wounds neither knew were there.
Spoiler: Online stuffsLentrax has a Deviantart now, check it out!
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2012-10-30, 04:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
*hugs* I sadly don't have any advise for you, but I think what the others suggested is really good? *hugs*
Are you afraid of bad reactions of the shop assistants or other customers? Then you could just say that the tops are a present for your sister/friend/whatever. That might be terrible advise, if it is, just ignore it. *hugs*You can call me Juniper. Please use gender-neutral pronouns (ze/hir (preferred) or they/them) when referring to me.
"We all are vessels of our brokenness, we carry it inside us like water, careful not to spill. And what is wholeness if not brokenness encompassed in acceptance, the warmth of its power a shield against those who would hurt us?" - R. Lemberg, Geometries of Belonging
Stories Art
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2012-10-30, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Hugs for those in need/want of them.
shoulders for those who need to lean on them.
and further I have nothing to say except to people having a hard time to stay strong and that they will get there...Warlock Poetry?
Or ways to use me in game?
Better grab a drink...
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2012-10-30, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
I dislike that word, in my honest opinion, that word is a barbaric and violent mangling of "totally", sounds stupid and will only confuse things further.
and now that I think about, slang in general is a stupid concept, perpetuated by people who dislike other people other than their friends understanding them in in some mindless clique-ish obsession, and thus only rendering language less comprehensible for the whole of humanity. I know, sounds a little hateful and extreme, but I'm just being slightly grumpy.
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2012-10-30, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
Online shopping as well, perhaps? I do all my shopping on the internets. At least i get the shirt I want without having to go all over. You have no idea how difficult it is to find nerdy stuff in Real Small Town, USA.
edit: It dawns on me after I posted this that some of ya'll may be from Real Small Town, USA. If you are, and you find it isn't, let me know, 'cause I would love to move.Last edited by Lentrax; 2012-10-30 at 10:01 AM.
Co-Founder of LUTAS.
For all you lesser superheroes out there.
Custom STO avatar by Durkoala.
A novella about a wizard and a rock star, cross-dimensional travel, and healing wounds neither knew were there.
Spoiler: Online stuffsLentrax has a Deviantart now, check it out!
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2012-10-30, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
I found someone that said they could help with makeup. I might actually be able to go half-and-half like the individual in the photo I posted!
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2012-10-30, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
That's awesome, Helio.
Makes me wish I could do more for Halloween. Ah well.
I'm just glad I'll be able to take the kids this year. Maybe I can do a good costume next year.
Co-Founder of LUTAS.
For all you lesser superheroes out there.
Custom STO avatar by Durkoala.
A novella about a wizard and a rock star, cross-dimensional travel, and healing wounds neither knew were there.
Spoiler: Online stuffsLentrax has a Deviantart now, check it out!
Streaming Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 11CST on Twitch.
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