Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 46
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Siege Tower's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Gender
    Female

    Default What happens to a character with no soul?

    I'm currently making a character that had previously had their soul completely removed by an incubus. I'm wondering what consequences this character would have from the lack of a soul. Despite the obvious things that happen (or don't happen) when they die.

    I'm wondering if things like divine magic would be extra effective on them or possibly do nothing at all. Maybe animals naturally dislike this character? I usually play 3.5 so do any gods ever interact with these kinds of characters in a specific way?

    I'm thinking of making this character as lecherous and sinful as possible. Since they have no soul they have nothing to taint.
    Last edited by Siege Tower; 2012-11-26 at 04:01 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siege Tower View Post

    I'm thinking of making this character as lecherous and sinful as possible. Since they have no soul they have nothing to taint.
    Actually, I wouldn't go this route. Because they have no soul, they have no real reason to amp their wickedness.

    Instead, I'd play them as detached, even Faerie-like, with heapings of "Blue and Orange Morality" (as opposed to Black and White Morality). They don't relate to the world in terms of good and evil as we understand it, so their actions won't necessarily make sense from that axis.

    Instead, find one that they do make sense from. Maybe they operate according to a specific set of protocols?
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    the clumsy bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    It might sound weird and it also might sound like it is supporting the wicked route, but I would say act with no conscience.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Siege Tower's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    I was planning for the character to have full knowledge that they have no soul so they would understand morality from when they did have one. The character would end up being freed of consequence since they lost it which is what would lead them to behave improperly. The character's ultimate goal would be to live forever since there's nothing good waiting for them in death but they can't be punished by the gods in life.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    I introduced soullessness into my campaign as a very rare congenital defect; affected people behaved much like psychopaths, being incapable of empathy or guilt. They also lacked real capacity for creativity, learning tasks simply by rote, and often seemed "machine-like" in their movements.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    NY, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    What happens should depend on how souls work in your game (Captain Obvious to the rescue!).

    If it's more of a Western cosmology with a one-to-one soul:body ratio, souls retaining personality and memories, and reward/punishement of the soul after death, then there are several issues. If you can have a mind without a soul, what is the soul doing? Is it just a backup, or is it providing some other part of your personality, like a conscience? Are there physical/magical abilities which depend on souls, and if so how does not having a soul affect them?

    If it's an Eastern cosmology with reincarnation, then not having a soul might actually be a good thing; you don't have to deal with Karma from past lives and you don't have any means of accruing more in your lifetime. Plus, seeing as their versions of the soul don't act as personality or memory it means there's relatively little to lose. Then again, losing your soul has got to mess up your Ki something awful, so good luck trying to win any martial-arts tournaments or defeat opposing Magical Girls.

    Also, if this is 3.5 specific you should ask the mods to move the thread to the appropriate sub-forum.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    If I had a character with no soul, my first line of thinking would be to ask what kind of spiritual entity has moved in to take its place. An empty human being has got to be an awfully tempting living space for spirits, and a character with no soul should be doubly easy to possess.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    "What you must learn is that these rules are no different than the rules of a computer system. Some of them can be bent. Others can be broken." - Morpheus, The Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Canadia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    How concerned would your character be with getting their soul back?
    Is it possible to regrow a soul?
    What'd happen if your character got a "raise dead" or "reincarnate" used on them?
    These sort of things are what ya've gotta talk to your DM about

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Sidmen's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    If you have the time and some money, I'd suggest picking up and watching Season 6 of Supernatural (you might also find it on some online streaming sites, I've never used them but my boss watches stuff online).

    Anyway, one of the main characters in that season runs around without a soul. That's the best suggestion I can give for how I'd imagine someone without a soul acting.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Craft (Cheese)'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    What happens should depend on how souls work in your game (Captain Obvious to the rescue!).

    If it's more of a Western cosmology with a one-to-one soul:body ratio, souls retaining personality and memories, and reward/punishement of the soul after death, then there are several issues. If you can have a mind without a soul, what is the soul doing? Is it just a backup, or is it providing some other part of your personality, like a conscience? Are there physical/magical abilities which depend on souls, and if so how does not having a soul affect them?

    If it's an Eastern cosmology with reincarnation, then not having a soul might actually be a good thing; you don't have to deal with Karma from past lives and you don't have any means of accruing more in your lifetime. Plus, seeing as their versions of the soul don't act as personality or memory it means there's relatively little to lose. Then again, losing your soul has got to mess up your Ki something awful, so good luck trying to win any martial-arts tournaments or defeat opposing Magical Girls.

    Also, if this is 3.5 specific you should ask the mods to move the thread to the appropriate sub-forum.
    Other religions also have souls consisting of multiple parts, with complicated interactions between them. Traditional tengerists, for example, believe that a person needs 3 different souls to function normally, but depending on the circumstances you can house as many as 5. Their beliefs go into great detail on the different kinds of damages to your souls that are possible, the effect they have on the body, and what rites need to be performed and what medicines need to be taken to fix them.

    So yeah, it's pretty much anything goes.

  11. - Top - End - #11

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    So something from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    I'd say the character would be much like a roughly intelligent zombie. Able to follow instructions but with no will power or wisdom behind their actions.

    Either that or the character should be emotionally numb. They might see an murder and know intellectually they should do something but not feel any rage against the perpertrator or sympathy for the victim.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    What is a soul in your universe?
    Is it the person themselves, riding the body in life?
    Then the body is now comatose, autonomous functions like breathing and heartbeat only.
    Is it a sense of ethics and morals, right and wrong?
    Than they are now amoral. Not necessarily bad, but with a child's ignorant innocence.
    Is it the vehicle consciousness rides into whatever passes for an afterlife?
    Well, then things get interesting, as for most purposes it makes no difference. But spells like Soul Jar or Trap the Soul might have no effect, but death might leave them trapped in their body, dead but unable to pass on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Darkest Part of your mind
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    How did they lose it? And, if needs be, they can always win a new soul in a poker game.
    Power restored for christmass. I'm back!

    Spoiler
    Show
    dragonflycave.com/newpay.aspx][/url]


  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    You don't have a soul; you are a soul. You have a body. Losing your soul means losing your self.

    So if the PC's soul has been lost, you aren't playing the soulless body; you are playing the body-less soul, trapped and in the keeping of the incubus.

    (If the DM goes with it, that could be an extremely cool game.)

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TuggyNE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pondering turns of phrase
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You don't have a soul; you are a soul. You have a body. Losing your soul means losing your self.
    Heartily seconded, and literature points for the quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Heartily seconded, and literature points for the quote.
    A good book, though the ending made me cry both times I read it.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-11-27 at 01:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Elemental Plane Of D20
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    What is a soul anyway? What does it do?
    You need to answer these question before you can answer "what does missing a soul do to me", as far as I'm concerned.
    I personally like the idea that missing a soul somehow detaches you and prevents from "connecting" with other beings and the world around you. Giving you a jarring sense of "wrongness" deep in your being, a sense that you are at all times alone, wrong.
    I'm also very fond of the idea that having no soul makes room for something else to occupy that space and that even if that something is something horrible, having it will alleviate the sense of wrongness you suffer from.
    "Malt does more than Milton can to justify the ways of God to man, ale, man, ale's the thing to drink for those whom it hurt to think"

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    You could also go the other way with it:

    "I feel fine, actually. Turns out the soul is a lot like the appendix: you don't even use it."

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Absol197's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Arising
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You don't have a soul; you are a soul. You have a body. Losing your soul means losing your self.
    Okay, what is this line from? I know I've read it in its original context before, but I can't remember what it was.

    I keep thinking Dresden Files, but I'm not sure...


    ~Phoenix~
    "It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale." --Iroh
    Online version of my Avatar:the Roleplaying Game sourcebook! (Still a work in progress.)

    LGBTAitP! If you want to talk, learn, or have some fun, stop by!
    Avatar by the lovely Lycunadari!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absol197 View Post
    Okay, what is this line from? I know I've read it in its original context before, but I can't remember what it was.

    I keep thinking Dresden Files, but I'm not sure...


    ~Phoenix~
    A Canticle for Leibowitz, a science fiction novel about a post-nuclear holocaust order of monks who sought to preserve pre-apocalypse knowledge and the consequences thereof.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    I had the idea that the body actually regrows a new soul over time, as the soul has an important function: it is a backup personality in case something happens to the mind (such as death, insanity [magical insanity cures act by basically reloading the soul], mind control [the soul can reassert itself], whatever else). Normally this means that having the soul removed is relatively unproblematic--it might lead to being susceptible to long-term mind control, reduced will saves, or similar effects, but it's not a permanent effect (although expect at least some personality changes--someone whose soul is normally good at controlling emotions may replace it with one that isn't, etc.--but since personality is already filtered through body chemistry it likely won't be as extreme as one might expect).

    However, what happens when the old soul returns? Do they merge? This would be a neat way to handle memory (the soulless character knows intellectually things that happened to them before the soul was removed but they can't remember) but does that mean that two different people's souls can also merge? And what happens then? Alternatively, do they stay separate? Maybe it manifests as a pseudo-split-personality. If so, is it antagonistic (ie. they're fighting for control over one body), or symbiotic (ie. they switch off with each other because they're better at different tasks)?

    And of course, how do you crunch all of this? Is the soul responsible for, say, spell slots (as OOTS seems to imply with the soul splice thing)?

    This sounds like the kind of thing you could build a system on, actually.
    SSBitP
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    "Creativity is the art of knowing how to hide one's sources." - Original quote, DO NOT STEAL.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absol197 View Post
    Okay, what is this line from? I know I've read it in its original context before, but I can't remember what it was.

    I keep thinking Dresden Files, but I'm not sure...


    ~Phoenix~
    I think it was said in Dresden Files, Ghost Story as I recall, but I think even there it was phrased as a quote rather than an original line.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Since you want a character at the end of the day, lets exclude all the various interpretations that would make the character unplayable. As others have said, it comes down to what a soul means after that is said and done. It can't be persona and memory, because then you don't have a character, but the following ideas might be interesting:

    - The soul is a vote. Each person gets one say as to what cosmic forces win the day at the end of time, as well as the current disposition of things in the universe. If there are more evil people, their souls make evil stronger. Because this character lacks a soul, the divine are completely unconcerned with them (and perhaps cannot even see them) - their vote has already been cast and there's no taking it back. This could also have implications for fate, if such a thing is important in the campaign: no soul means no fated role left to play, so anything they do 'breaks' the divine plan somehow. The character's personality might not be strongly affected by this, but there could be subtle things: they are incapable of faith, lack a visceral moral response (all their morality is intellectual, not based on feeling), etc.

    - The soul is a connection to something. This idea would have souls being like some sort of link to a collective (and ancestral) consciousness of the world. Hunches, intuition, coincidence, premonitions, and so on all stem from people subtly learning from the soul-link. The character sometimes is just blank on things that people normally are very intuitive about. They can't tell when people are looking at them, their long-term memory is more limited (because everyone else can lean on ancestral memory), etc.

    - The soul is the creative part. This person need not be robotic per-se, but they have trouble with any truly creative endeavors. Research, art, poetry, and such are beyond them. Furthermore, they absolutely cannot get innuendo (e.g. creative interpretations).

    - The soul connects mind and body. This one is a little weird - the modifiers to RP are sort of physical ticks rather than mental changes. This person has to control every muscle individually when they move, rather than just naturally moving by instinct. So when they move they are concentrating very hard and can easily be distracted. Every thing they do would be painstaking, and would use as few muscles as possible at any given time.

    - The soul is hope. A bit of a darker one - the soul acts as protection against every bad thing in the world, because everyone at a deep level has an instinctual understanding that no matter what happens they can eventually live on and escape it in the afterlife. For this character, they are living in an endlessly decaying body - every minor cosmetic change is just a reminder of the inevitable destruction of their self and all that makes them up.

    - The soul as social reality. Another kind of weird one. If you've ever read Neverwhere, that's a good inspiration for this. Basically, people only remember you if you have a soul. Otherwise, things you do tend to fade from memory and importance. The character is used to being ignored, used to being immune to the consequences of social misbehavior (at least the long term ones), and may be somewhat jaded and self-centered because of it.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Well, look at the bright side: You don't need to worry about demons or church-recruiters anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    - The soul is hope. A bit of a darker one - the soul acts as protection against every bad thing in the world, because everyone at a deep level has an instinctual understanding that no matter what happens they can eventually live on and escape it in the afterlife. For this character, they are living in an endlessly decaying body - every minor cosmetic change is just a reminder of the inevitable destruction of their self and all that makes them up.
    This reminds me of Raistlin, which means it automatically gets my vote; after all, he wasn't so bad, right?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Like one, that on a lonesome road
    Doth walk in fear and dread,
    And having once turned round walks on,
    And turns no more his head;
    Because he knows, a frightful fiend
    Doth close behind him tread.
    The Rime of the Ancient Mariner -- Samuel Coleridge Taylor

    Spoiler
    Show


  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Anxe's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Davis, California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Isn't a person without a soul dead within D&D? That's by RAW though, so who cares.

    For your character, you might want to read A Modest Destiny. It covers what someone without a soul would act like. It's rather long, but the best webcomic I've ever read. Have fun reading it!

    Follow my blog!
    If you haven't yet, you should give League of Legends a try.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Well, in D&D, you can raise a dead person as a mindless undead, awaken that undead to sentience, then kill them and cast resurrection on the corpse. Now for the fun part, just who gets raised, exactly?
    It's a similar question to what Incom asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TuggyNE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pondering turns of phrase
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    A Canticle for Leibowitz, a science fiction novel about a post-nuclear holocaust order of monks who sought to preserve pre-apocalypse knowledge and the consequences thereof.
    Huh. I was referring to what I believe(d) to be its original source: C.S. Lewis, specifically his Mere Christianity.

    I haven't actually read A Canticle for Leibowitz, so uh, mutual agreement to expand our repertoire?
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Alaris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: What happens to a character with no soul?

    I'll echo what many people have said. It depends on your game world. As far as I know, there isn't 'much' concrete evidence in regards to souls in 3.5.

    Nonetheless, as far as I'm concerned, and I think for my world (though I'm still fine-tuning things), a soul is the embodiment of who you are. It is your mind, your sentience, etc.

    Most living creatures that have achieved certain levels of sentience have a soul. The basic humanoid races. Animals. Hell, even plants have souls. For many Outsiders, their body IS their soul; it is one and the same. Ghosts are a manifestation of the soul. Certain undead (Vampires, Lich's) retain their soul, though in the latter case, they hide it in a safe place.

    So for my world, to not have a soul at all, is to not be sentient, to not be. Unless something strange was at work, where your soul is connected to your body, but from the outside, then you could not live without a soul. You are the soul.

    Again, this is the opinion of Alaris, mostly for his world. I'm not saying you should necessarily use it, especially since it does not work for your idea, but I figured I would give you my perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Well, in D&D, you can raise a dead person as a mindless undead, awaken that undead to sentience, then kill them and cast resurrection on the corpse. Now for the fun part, just who gets raised, exactly?
    It's a similar question to what Incom asked.
    Ooh, an interesting question. And one I think I want to answer. At least, in theory.

    In my opinion, it essentially would go like this (for my world anyway):
    • Dead Human is raised as a Zombie!
    • Awaken [Undead?] is cast on him, giving him mental scores!
    • Either a soul is bestowed upon him (by a Deity, or something), one is reincarnated into him (not standard rules), or a new soul is born.
    • The now sentient Zombie is killed!
    • The new soul, being the last resident of that body, is called back into it, if he so chooses to come.


    Naturally, if some wizard started to abuse this to "create souls," the Deities may step in, as 'the soul' is not a domain for mortals to be toying with.

    At least, that's my interpretation. ^_^
    Last edited by Alaris; 2012-11-27 at 11:34 PM.
    3DS Friend Code: 1907-9395-1731
    Pokemon X Info: Modern Pattern Vivillon & Flying-Type Friend Safari (w/ Farfetch'd & Swanna)

    Avatar: Thanks to asdflove for my avatar. ^_^

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •