The legend of Korra

[Ramza00]

Korra and Mako did figure it out by themselves that Amon used subtle bloodbending techniques with his mind to deflect any bender's attack after Tarrlok did reveal the truth about Amon being a powerful bloodbender.

In my mind it was not spelled out well enough for the viewer.

[Hopeless]

In my mind it was not spelled out well enough for the viewer.

Maybe that facemask was intended to hide the fact he was psychic bloodbending?

Whats scarier a foe whose abilities you know or one who you don't know and seemingly impervious to all of your attacks?

[Morty]

Korra and Mako did figure it out by themselves that Amon used subtle bloodbending techniques with his mind to deflect any bender's attack after Tarrlok did reveal the truth about Amon being a powerful bloodbender.

I'm not sure if I'd call it figuring out. It was more like Korra suddenly proclaiming it to be so. Presumably because there was no time to reveal it properly.

[Soras Teva Gee]

The overriding concern is wrapping things up sure, but it shouldn't be the only concern. Staying in character and having the ending make sense is just as, if not more important, than the actual wrapping up of the narrative.

Oh I admit that it's not the most dramatic but it would make sense. You see my problem is that you're grouping all forms of arrogance under hubris. Yes Amon was arrogant, but he was controlled. He was endangered numerous times but he did not resort to waterbending, ever. Then suddenly when victory is literally in his hands he does? It's just dumb.

Of because every other fight he was so dominant that when Korra actually managed to beat him in a fight his whole control is broken.

"Make sense" is in the rather eye of the beholder. Would not what makes the most sense would be after being knocked into the bay to accept he's lost this fight and retreat. Put his mask back on, rally the troops, and so forth. So the controlled thing to do isn't possible for a limited story arc.

Of course perhaps the deepest problem is you are not acknowledging that Amon in the end was not reasonable and controlled. It was all a show, an act to cover for much more petty and human reasons. That's why like his scar it all came off when he was finally truely challenged, because up to that he'd had control of the situation making him brittle and hubristic.

It all works. I think the real problem is this...

If Amon starts using bending as soon as no one can see, then clearly he wasn't meant to be a dark-Batman.

If the creators didn't want him to be a dark-Batman, then why do you think he became one?

...failure to acknowledge the trick Amon pulled.

He's built the mystique specifically to take people in (like those in or wanting power are want to do) but it was all a lie. On reflection I love it. He's so much more interesting this way.

[Dienekes]

Of because every other fight he was so dominant that when Korra actually managed to beat him in a fight his whole control is broken.

"Make sense" is in the rather eye of the beholder. Would not what makes the most sense would be after being knocked into the bay to accept he's lost this fight and retreat. Put his mask back on, rally the troops, and so forth. So the controlled thing to do isn't possible for a limited story arc.

Of course perhaps the deepest problem is you are not acknowledging that Amon in the end was not reasonable and controlled. It was all a show, an act to cover for much more petty and human reasons. That's why like his scar it all came off when he was finally truely challenged, because up to that he'd had control of the situation making him brittle and hubristic.

It all works. I think the real problem is this...



...failure to acknowledge the trick Amon pulled.

He's built the mystique specifically to take people in (like those in or wanting power are want to do) but it was all a lie. On reflection I love it. He's so much more interesting this way.

As for them noting having enough time, I don't think so, all that means is that the set up was wrong. They could have beaten him a different way than tossing him out a window. Or they could have not wasted so much time on an annoying romance subplot and a sport so that the resolution does not feel rushed and odd.

If they wanted that to be Amon's core character it should have been demonstrated before the last episode. Your argument means almost no action can be called out of character since well the writers show it that way, and therefore it was true. If we were supposed to take from this that Amon is not really controlled, and it was all just a show, then drop hints he is not really controlled through the story. Having his character flaw that the audience has never seen evidence before pop up on the last episode just to beat him comes off as contrived.

For a counter example take Azula going crazy in the last episode of AtLA, while it was a bit disappointing to see the previously strong character crack they had been dropping hints about her emotional instability for some time so it actually does seem like something her character would do, and not something that came completely out of the blue.

[Soras Teva Gee]

As for them noting having enough time, I don't think so, all that means is that the set up was wrong. They could have beaten him a different way than tossing him out a window. Or they could have not wasted so much time on an annoying romance subplot and a sport so that the resolution does not feel rushed and odd.

That's getting rather open ended now isn't it.

And as I've previously discussed the space created from ditching the romance nonsense has far more important uses then shoring up an already solid. More Korra, more airbending, etc. Amon is the part of the show needing the least work.

If they wanted that to be Amon's core character it should have been demonstrated before the last episode. Your argument means almost no action can be called out of character since well the writers show it that way, and therefore it was true.

A rather open ended solution. You've crossed the line between fixing a problem in execution, to rewriting the entire plot arc here.

Character is entirely context dependent. Its not like IIRC we actually saw Amon get all that beaten before, so there isn't an opportunity to reveal his brittle nature. However its not like its some odd and peculiar idea, Amon's story is not unique its the story of every hypocrite with power ever. And the solution of revealing it is about as established.

If we were supposed to take from this that Amon is not really controlled, and it was all just a show, then drop hints he is not really controlled through the story. Having his character flaw that the audience has never seen evidence before pop up on the last episode just to beat him comes off as contrived.

Its always easy to ask for more. For me what becomes evident from the moment we know Tarrlock's past is that Amon is a hypocrite, thus the rest follows nicely. Which to be technical was not the last episode, it was revealed and that provided the set-up for the final conflict, get Amon revealed as a waterbender and hypocrite. It didn't turn out that easy, but that's only to be expect too. Like most single parts of the series it works very well.

It sounds to me more like you are complaining they didn't give you a 'fair' chance to figure it out beforehand. To me a good trick almost has to fool the audience to work. If its the way to defeat him then for then there's nothing wrong with saving it for when he needs to be beaten.

I personally have no problem with not having the nessecary data to figure something out until its all done. Its about the only way to pull off a plot twist on an even halfway savvy viewer. Not that the two are an opposing dichotomy, neither is better then the other and they remain valid choices.

For a counter example take Azula going crazy in the last episode of AtLA, while it was a bit disappointing to see the previously strong character crack they had been dropping hints about her emotional instability for some time so it actually does seem like something her character would do, and not something that came completely out of the blue.

And when she first appears with an evil psychotic grin on her face, add other hints, its no surprise she breaks down.

A good case in point, if you want a real surprise you can't give out many hints because they will lend themselves to obvious conclusions.

[Math_Mage]

I doubt that Korra contemplated suicide. That's only a faninterpretation.

Also, Korra did in the end accept that she wasn't going to be the Avatar anymore when she couldn't bend the three other elements, opening up her last chakra that deals with earthly attachments.

The doublethink in this post absolutely blew my mind. What could possibly be more of a faninterpretation than the claim that Korra invisibly released each of the eight chakras over the course of the season? Not to mention, what could be less of a 'release of earthly attachments' than thinking, 'I can't be the Avatar anymore because I don't have elemental powers, woe is me'? As a standalone statement, it makes no sense; combined with your stated reluctance to accept faninterpretation, it's absurd.

Its always how do I wrap up the plot. Never anything else. In every story that is the first and overriding consideration. Particularly in timed mediums where you don't have a finite space. So you need something that can be done quickly and covers everything definitively beyond any doubt.

Now you idea there. Bor-ing. Not dramatic. Certainly not visually interesting either. Seriously Amon is literally now defeated by not having waterproof cosmetics, which has already been complained about in this threat. Heck doubtless many of the objectors would complain instead that how come a liar as good as Amon couldn't make up a story on the spot: the scar was a lie for sympathy but his blessing from the spirits is real. His men are nominally ready to believe him so you need a grand gesture to break his hold.

An attempt to lie is actually the obvious way the scene would progress from Dienekes' scenario. But given how the Big Scar Reveal was made so much of earlier in the episode, it wouldn't take much to persuade the people they've been duped. Like, say, Korra walking up and saying 'I told you so'.

That said, I pretty much agree with MLai: it's not that Amon was ruined by the way they handled the final scene, or that a hypocritical BBEG is always a bad thing, it's that all the big reveals about how Amon actually operates rob the philosophical conflict of any meaning (although this could have been salvaged with Amon's canonical character arc if the writers hadn't screwed up in so many other ways). This goes back to that list of what-ifs I mentioned before.

(Also, why do you think people complained about Amon's cosmetics? It's because he's supposed to be careful and controlled and thinking n steps ahead. Canonically, he is not just a hypocrite, he is a conscious hypocrite, trying to trick the world into thinking he doesn't bend. And yes, he is arrogant--among other things, proud of being able to trick the world this way. So that's not a good argument that he would now defeat himself by bending.)

[Dienekes]

That's getting rather open ended now isn't it.

And as I've previously discussed the space created from ditching the romance nonsense has far more important uses then shoring up an already solid. More Korra, more airbending, etc. Amon is the part of the show needing the least work.

Agreed Korra could have used more, but adding a hint that Amon's less controlled than we are lead to believe would take all of 30 seconds. Hell, showing him get angry when the Avatar escapes him, or when the airbenders flee could have been enough.

A rather open ended solution. You've crossed the line between fixing a problem in execution, to rewriting the entire plot arc here.

Character is entirely context dependent. Its not like IIRC we actually saw Amon get all that beaten before, so there isn't an opportunity to reveal his brittle nature. However its not like its some odd and peculiar idea, Amon's story is not unique its the story of every hypocrite with power ever. And the solution of revealing it is about as established.

I have no idea what you're saying here, nor do I see that all hypocrites with power end the same way. As to rewriting a plot arc, yes, I think the entire show could have had a few more rewrites.

Its always easy to ask for more. For me what becomes evident from the moment we know Tarrlock's past is that Amon is a hypocrite, thus the rest follows nicely. Which to be technical was not the last episode, it was revealed and that provided the set-up for the final conflict, get Amon revealed as a waterbender and hypocrite. It didn't turn out that easy, but that's only to be expect too. Like most single parts of the series it works very well.

Being a hypocrite has absolutely nothing to do with being a hothead. They are two entirely separate character flaws, being informed that he was a hypocrite in no way offers any information that his cool exterior is only skin deep. Honestly to me it implies the latter getting away with such a complex lie for so very long means his control must have been legendary, only, it wasn't.

[qutoe]It sounds to me more like you are complaining they didn't give you a 'fair' chance to figure it out beforehand. To me a good trick almost has to fool the audience to work. If its the way to defeat him then for then there's nothing wrong with saving it for when he needs to be beaten.

I personally have no problem with not having the nessecary data to figure something out until its all done. Its about the only way to pull off a plot twist on an even halfway savvy viewer. Not that the two are an opposing dichotomy, neither is better then the other and they remain valid choices.[/quote]

We're not talking about plot twists or tricks we're talking about conflict resolution. The same rules do not apply. What could be seen as a cool plot twist becomes poor writing when the one and only time it's ever demonstrated is to defeat the enemy. Generally when the resolution of conflict is based on a piece of information no one had, that was never mentioned before or since, it's not called a plot twist. The worst cases are called Deus ex Machina's, I won't say this was one of those worst cases but it was pretty bad.

And when she first appears with an evil psychotic grin on her face, add other hints, its no surprise she breaks down.

A good case in point, if you want a real surprise you can't give out many hints because they will lend themselves to obvious conclusions.

Again, we're not talking about surprises we're talking conflict resolution and character development.

[Soras Teva Gee]

That said, I pretty much agree with MLai: it's not that Amon was ruined by the way they handled the final scene, it's that all the big reveals about how Amon actually operates rob the philosophical conflict of any meaning (although this could have been salvaged with Amon's canonical character arc if the writers hadn't screwed up in so many other ways). This goes back to that list of what-ifs I mentioned before.

Oh this is more open to question and probably more pertinent, but also closer to the line between fixable execution and what is just wanting the story to be something different.

I personally question whether the Equalists are actually supposed to be all that morally ambiguous this season. Sure its there, but at the end of the day they are a terrorist organization by the attack on the arena at the latest. Ergo "bad" whatever their justification. So the ethical conflict is nominally supposed to take a back seat to their more material challenge. Now Amon was a hypocrite in the end so he is defunct, but all the underlying conditions are still there so the answer is more technically avoided not voided out right.

(Book 2 maybe?)

Either way a couple of clear points a bit of character filibuster making that clear would have been helpful. And possible. Tenzin seems a good candidate for one in a council speech, or Korra before the fight with Tarrlok which I can't recall all of at the moment. Maybe the creators thought it all too self evident.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Agreed Korra could have used more, but adding a hint that Amon's less controlled than we are lead to believe would take all of 30 seconds. Hell, showing him get angry when the Avatar escapes him, or when the airbenders flee could have been enough.

We don't actually gain that much from ditching the easily ditchable, because improving Korra Heroic Journey would by nature be consuming. Also as her direct circle we'd prioritize Mako/Bolin/Asami and probending. Then there's the conditions of Republic city giving the Equalists cause, probably a bit more from Sato. Amon being made better is at the bottom of the list particularly because he doesn't need anything and has little worth cutting.

Though I've just recalled we did have Amon pulling that pushing right through bloodbending trick on Tarrlok. We've no real reason to know why though there so its not any kind of hint. Certainly there was a element of mystery to Amon though, plenty of people around here were convinced he was Tarrlok beforehand.

I have no idea what you're saying here, nor do I see that all hypocrites with power end the same way. As to rewriting a plot arc, yes, I think the entire show could have had a few more rewrites.

Out-of-character is entirely and only context dependent lacking any truely useful generalities. You said I was proposing a siuation where I can't call anything OOC, which is patently untrue. But its all particulars.

A major reveal is one context that can has a enough latitude, as generally as can be said. Though we don't have cause to see it coming, that the man at the top is secretly corrupt and bilking his followers for his own ends is not a unique story. And fits perfectly in expanding a charismatic authoritarian orator. So its not from out of nowhere either.

Being a hypocrite has absolutely nothing to do with being a hothead. They are two entirely separate character flaws, being informed that he was a hypocrite in no way offers any information that his cool exterior is only skin deep. Honestly to me it implies the latter getting away with such a complex lie for so very long means his control must have been legendary, only, it wasn't.

It has everything to do with hubris though. Its not that he's somehow hotblooded, but that in the end his mask is a mask. Its not who he is.

Being kicked out a window and smashed into water after you thought you had total victory is perfectly fine grounds to any human's self control. Try it, it sucks. You don't think in a situation like that you act.

And jumping to what you do constantly (bending) without stopping to consider the full scope of the situation, because you are just got rattled to not be in perfect control but are just delusional enough to think at a deeper level you can get away with anything...

It works. Everyway I look at it just works.

The only way it doesn't work is by assuming everyone can hit the damn pause button on life and plot out their next full-round-action for maximum win.

LoK only fails in this weird level between concept, arc, and episodes. The episodes work, they just don't quite become more then the sum of their parts like an arc needs to.

We're not talking about plot twists or tricks we're talking about conflict resolution. The same rules do not apply. What could be seen as a cool plot twist becomes poor writing when the one and only time it's ever demonstrated is to defeat the enemy.

Nah this is pretty textbook plot twist here. Much more twisty gets into Shamalamadingdong's territory. (Waitasec....)

Generally when the resolution of conflict is based on a piece of information no one had, that was never mentioned before or since, it's not called a plot twist. The worst cases are called Deus ex Machina's, I won't say this was one of those worst cases but it was pretty bad.

And if they'd found Tarrlok at the rally and he'd shouted it out at the last second or something maybe, but it was the set up for the entire final battle. Armed with Amon's secret Korra moves swiftly to expose him.

I personally commend them for leaving something to stage the endgame around aside from Amon's inevitable defeat. What the heck are they supposed to do with getting the knowledge earlier anyways. It too big to not act on.

[MLai]

ON AMON:

Endoperez (not Ramza00): If Amon starts using bending as soon as no one can see, then clearly he wasn't meant to be a dark-Batman.
If the creators didn't want him to be a dark-Batman, then why do you think he became one?

Because the show would have benefitted so much more from the antagonist being a Deconstructed Batman (or V, if you prefer). See Math Mage post #127.

Soras: He's built the mystique specifically to take people in (like those in or wanting power are want to do) but it was all a lie. On reflection I love it. He's so much more interesting this way.

The big problem with this interpretation is, while it works for the villain, it doesn't work as foil for the protag. See Math Mage post #127.
I was typing replies while reading the thread. Then when I got to Math Mage's post, I had to delete about 90% of it all due to redundancy. :P

Oh this is more open to question and probably more pertinent, but also closer to the line between fixable execution and what is just wanting the story to be something different.

More like... what the setup was, VS the writers wanting the story to be something different by the end.
It wasn't our expectations that were unreasonable. Our expectations flowed from the great setup. It was the writers twisting the natural course of the story unreasonably.

I personally question whether the Equalists are actually supposed to be all that morally ambiguous this season. Sure its there, but at the end of the day they are a terrorist organization by the attack on the arena at the latest. Ergo "bad" whatever their justification.

This is like saying [insert country in news here] rebels are all terrorists and ergo "bad", without considering at all their myriad reasons and motivations. Before ethical arguments, let's look at some canon facts:
(1) They're all citizens of the city. There are no foreign invaders here.
(2) A force composed of just citizens of the city, using assets from the city, was strong enough to almost win. Even a **foreign** military power could not easily squash it.
(3) The entire government council is benders, or bender-supporters (except Tenzhin, but he's... a bender).
(4) The entire effective police force is benders. One or two park constables don't really count.
(5) Whenever there's fighting, it's always all-benders vs all-nonbenders. If Equalists are such a fringe minority of a majority of the population (non-benders), then where are all the non-benders fighting for "good"?
There are some serious problems within Republic City, and it just all got swept under the rug because "he's a hypocrite, so there!"
I wouldn't have a problem with it without LoK, but since the writers themselves tackled the deconstruction they opened up a big can of worms and now they can't close it again.

[Ramza00]

@MLai, if you are going to edit and shorten quotes please attribute the quotes to the right people. You attributed a quote to me that was actually done by endoperez.

-------------------------------------------

The doublethink in this post absolutely blew my mind. What could possibly be more of a faninterpretation than the claim that Korra invisibly released each of the eight chakras over the course of the season? Not to mention, what could be less of a 'release of earthly attachments' than thinking, 'I can't be the Avatar anymore because I don't have elemental powers, woe is me'? As a standalone statement, it makes no sense; combined with your stated reluctance to accept faninterpretation, it's absurd.

Actually the episodes and the emotions Korra deals with those episodes really fit nicely with the chakra system. Here is a recapp

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Chakras

Chakra Number (There are a total of 7)
1) Earth Chakra, Deals with Survival, blocked by Fear
2) Water Chakra, Deals with Pleasure, blocked by Guilt
3) Fire Chakra, Deals with Willpower, blocked by Shame
4) Air Chakra, Deals with Love, blocked by Grief
5) Sound Chakra, Deals with Truth, blocked by Lies
6) Light Chakra, Deals with Insight, blocked by Illusion
7) Thought Chakra, Deals with Pure Cosmic Energy of the Universe, it is blocked by Earthly Attachments

[MLai]

@ Ramza00"
Corrected.

As for the prediction of episodes according to chakras, I agree it turned out to be very accurate all the way to the end, and was fun to anticipate.
However, unless the writers themselves blog to confirm that yes, they did indeed use the chakras as storyboard, then it is still just as much fan speculation as Korra contemplating (but no one ever said deciding to) suicide.

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/74949290.html

Wow so many ppl are disappointed with LoK in the comments.
"Hate watchers", lol.

[Math_Mage]

Actually the episodes and the emotions Korra deals with those episodes really fit nicely with the chakra system. Here is a recapp

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Chakras

Chakra Number (There are a total of 7)
1) Earth Chakra, Deals with Survival, blocked by Fear
2) Water Chakra, Deals with Pleasure, blocked by Guilt
3) Fire Chakra, Deals with Willpower, blocked by Shame
4) Air Chakra, Deals with Love, blocked by Grief
5) Sound Chakra, Deals with Truth, blocked by Lies
6) Light Chakra, Deals with Insight, blocked by Illusion
7) Thought Chakra, Deals with Pure Cosmic Energy of the Universe, it is blocked by Earthly Attachments

I'm well aware of the chakras, and I'm well aware of the fan-made case that Korra progressed through those chakras. I'm still puzzled that DeltaEmil would so eagerly espouse it within seconds of blithely dismissing one of MLai's minor points as fan interpretation (while completely ignoring the actual argument he's making). But I'll let him deal with his cognitive dissonance and talk to the substance of the argument from chakras.

For starters, the chakra theory is weak. Any 12-episode show with a romance subplot and a powerful enemy can easily hit each of the first six points as well as this show did. Multiple of the points depend on simultaneous invisible philosophical revelations in the final five minutes of the show; as others have previously pointed out, what is actually in the show is "Korra is sad about bending, Aang shows up and gives her bending back," even if fans want to read it as "Korra is sad about bending, Korra undergoes philosophical transformation and lets go of her earthly attachment to Mako and resolves to be the Avatar regardless of her attachment to bending, Aang shows up as a consequence of Korra's character growth and gives her bending back." Some of the chakras are justified using the same events. And some of the proposed blockages and revelations are disappointingly juvenile or trivial.

More to the point, this is a pure cop-out. "But chakra theory!" is not a defense of the show. The fact that the underwhelming narrative of LoK can be tied to the chakras means, at best, that the writers managed to do something half-right amid all the things they got wrong; at worst, it means they pursued this tenuous philosophical connection over, say, making a good story. It also means they considered zero visible character growth in the final scene a good enough excuse to give her the rewards for character growth.

When Aang progressively releases his chakras with Guru Pathik, it feels meaningful even though all of it takes place in one episode. Why? Because each chakra represents not just an event in Aang's history where he feels guilt or shame or attachment, but an important part of his character that has developed over the course of the two seasons. In LoK, Korra does things, but for the most part she doesn't learn or grow. That's why we have to point to such examples as "Korra accepts Tenzin's instruction to be patient" or "Korra apologizes to Bolin for the Makiss" as examples of chakra release.

Insofar as the chakra theory applies to LoK, it comes off as half-baked as the rest of the show.

[MLai]

Crystalzelda said on tumblr (http://crystalzelda.tumblr.com/tagged/equalists):

Yes, tensions did exist, but not because of actual nonbender oppression, as far as was presented. These tensions are due to growing rift between economic classes coupled with residual tension of the Fire Nation’s colonial aspirations - Amon, master orator that he was, successfully used these tensions to craft a new fictional narrative to easily feed to susceptible people. People love to have scapegoats and to have a reason to point to for their hardships.

Like, the Other Path would really make it clear that if Republic City has a problem with disadvantaged populations and inequality, it is NOT nonbenders vs benders, okay, but classism and economic disparity. There’s a real and existing economic gap in the city, and that’s what Amon used to form his “revolution” - he took an existing narrative (fear of the Fire Nation because of their previous history and colonization, translated it into fear of bending), built it upon a clear and present disadvantage (poverty and economic hardships) and twisted it into scapegoating and went through the otherization using symbolic politics. I mean the **** he did is straight of Kaufman’s book, Modern Hatreds: The Symbolic Politics of Ethnic War.

I really like this explanation, and I agree with it as far as the canon goes. However, that still comes back to the shoddy writing of the season causing there to be such disparate interpretations of the canon placement of Equalists.

Yes, I can agree that this can explain how Amon was able to amass such a large citizen following, whereas before I attributed that ability to the legitimacy of his agenda.

However, that is precisely what the writers would have needed to address. We needed the protagonists to question, to ask "Why is Amon capable of turning so many ordinary citizens into terrorists against their own city?" And then, we needed them to show us that it's not because Amon's agenda is legitimate, but because of other reasons.

Instead, the show's writers incorrectly assume all viewers will automatically side with Team Korra just because Amon's methods are excessive, and failed to realize that Steve Blum is so charismatic and persuasive that many viewers will find Amon's cause sympathetic given a dearth of more facts. It's not the viewers' fault that they jumped to the conclusion that Amon is righteous, and therefore started hating on Korra, if you don't give us adequate information showing his movement's sociopolitical illegitimacy.

A. Firebender, the secret boss of Republic City. Who oh who can stop him?!

That scene [Tarrlok cutting off power to nonbender neighborhoods and the citizens came out to protest] does not in any way shape or form have any bearing on a discussion of privilege and oppression as it took place in response to a terrorist threat put forth by the Equalists. It’s unfair, a gross misuse of power and unacceptable, but is not an indicator of inequality between benders and nonbenders.

This I do not agree with.
The nonbender child said to Korra: "Help us. You're our Avatar too." (I think it was a child.)
The child would not have phrased it that way if there wasn't a consciousness of a distinct class division between benders and nonbenders.
Remember, benders can pop up from any family, and then produce children who are randomly benders or non. Your son might be a bender, and the Fire Nation immigrant family next door, who maybe you don't like, might have no benders in the family. So it's not a matter of segregated communities or ethnic/cultural groups. For people to develop an us-them consciousness along that line, then, there must be some systematic force facilitating it.

[Flickerdart]

The child would not have phrased it that way if there wasn't a consciousness of a distinct class division between benders and nonbenders.
Remember, benders can pop up from any family, and then produce children who are randomly benders or non.

All the Fire royalty seem to be benders, and all the Air Nomads were. So it's not random, we just don't know the mechanism by which bending is passed on.

[Kato]

While I don't feel like discussing the possible genetics of bending abilities I find it hard to believe that a family would... abandon their child because they did not inherit their bending abilities. The show doesn't make it clear how the powers are passed into the next generation but merely the idea that the government would oppress the non benders merely for the fact of being non benders is at it's best weak. As such, the whole "we are going to punish you for stuff the equalists did" was a crappy move to make from the government and in extension by the writers. (Even the idea to make people live in different districts seems weird but without saying "It's part of their society" one could justify non benders feel safer without benders around.


Regarding that tumblr post, while Amon sure is a terrorist by the usual definition I still like to remind people there is a certain difference to the kind of terrorist that's making the news... well, not so often anymore but most of the time over the last decade. I'm not trying to get into rl politics, just saying terrorist is a rather loose definition.

[Dr.Epic]

The Avatar writers are the worst romance writers ever

Really? REALLY?

[Soras Teva Gee]

For starters, the chakra theory is weak. Any 12-episode show with a romance subplot and a powerful enemy can easily hit each of the first six points as well as this show did. Multiple of the points depend on simultaneous invisible philosophical revelations in the final five minutes of the show; as others have previously pointed out, what is actually in the show is "Korra is sad about bending, Aang shows up and gives her bending back," even if fans want to read it as "Korra is sad about bending, Korra undergoes philosophical transformation and lets go of her earthly attachment to Mako and resolves to be the Avatar regardless of her attachment to bending, Aang shows up as a consequence of Korra's character growth and gives her bending back." Some of the chakras are justified using the same events. And some of the proposed blockages and revelations are disappointingly juvenile or trivial.

Yeah the chakra nonsense is really weak. Aang was going into it seasons before he had to face his whole earthly attachment chakra thing.

To me I think we are just seeing different manifestations of the Avatar State's basic purpose, bailing the Avatar out. Aang first used it to keep himself from drowning, a physical threat. Korra starts out much more physically badassed, she doesn't feel distress from physical challenges. But emotional/existential distress (which does not demand being suicidal that's fanon too) yeah that makes sense.

Insofar as the chakra theory applies to LoK, it comes off as half-baked as the rest of the show.

Pfft the franchise's spirituality has always been pretty half baked to me. Just kinda the price of borrowing from another culture while trying to avoid being y'know... religious. Which is what that all is IRL.

Considered from the point of actual spirituality, that moment of great emotion where in a suddenly there's a connection to something greater then one's self and more fundamental then can be described in words. Yeah that all fits here finally going Avatar State.

[Flickerdart]

To me I think we are just seeing different manifestations of the Avatar State's basic purpose, bailing the Avatar out. Aang first used it to keep himself from drowning, a physical threat. Korra starts out much more physically badassed, she doesn't feel distress from physical challenges. But emotional/existential distress (which does not demand being suicidal that's fanon too) yeah that makes sense.

If that's true, I'm afraid to see what happens when Mako dumps her.

[Lord Seth]

Really? REALLY?

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Avatar writers the worst romance writers ever, but Legend of Korra had a decidedly worse romance story than Twilight did.

[Math_Mage]

Soras Teva Gee, we don't really see Aang in spiritual difficulty early in ATLA because Aang is established as a spiritual character to begin with; his issue is control, which is where Guru Pathik offers his aid: in gaining mastery of the Avatar State.

Also, Aang's appearance at the end of LoK isn't consistent with the 'bailing-out' function of the Avatar State, which generally doesn't involve past lives. Nor does it explain Korra's subsequent control over the Avatar State.

Crystalzelda said on tumblr (http://crystalzelda.tumblr.com/tagged/equalists):

It comes back to the story being at best half-told. What are the social roots of the Equalist movement? Nonexistent. Apparently a lot of people hate benders, if Mako is to be believed. Why? Um. And most of the problems with the show exist under any interpretation of Republic City's social conditions.

[Kato]

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Avatar writers the worst romance writers ever, but Legend of Korra had a decidedly worse romance story than Twilight did.

Okay, I didn't read the books - something I do plan to do just to be able to properly argue on it - but from all I can gather a poorly written love story is still way better than the thinly veiled tale of an abusive relationship turned into a heart breaking romance.

It comes back to the story being at best half-told. What are the social roots of the Equalist movement? Nonexistent. Apparently a lot of people hate benders, if Mako is to be believed. Why? Um. And most of the problems with the show exist under any interpretation of Republic City's social conditions.

Well... I say there are enough reasons for non benders to dislike benders... Just like the background plot in (e.g.) X-Men... I don't think it really needs to be explained but having people walk around that can burn your face off at a whim seems pretty intimidating to me.

[Math_Mage]

Well... I say there are enough reasons for non benders to dislike benders... Just like the background plot in (e.g.) X-Men... I don't think it really needs to be explained but having people walk around that can burn your face off at a whim seems pretty intimidating to me.

But everything else about the X-Men setting that leads to mutant ostracization is significantly different from the ATLA setting.

[Scowling Dragon]

Considering most benders have more responsibilities (And Benders are the reason for the cities 100% eco-friendly energy) I don't get it.

[MLai]

Considering most benders have more responsibilities (And Benders are the reason for the cities 100% eco-friendly energy) I don't get it.

According to crystalzelda's tumblr comments --and what she's saying makes a lot sense-- the problems of classism, ethnic tensions (Fire Nation immigrants vs everyone else), and wealth gap exists in Republic City. This can be reasonably extrapolated (RC is an analog of early 20th century Shanghai and NYC), and can be seen from scenes in the cartoon.

What we do not see, outside of Equalist-related events, is systematic oppression of nonbenders by benders. We viewers infer a lot, after hearing Amon speak, and extrapolate our own IRL experiences to fill in the blanks. But the cartoons do not show it.

So why does Amon get so much populist support? Because he is a master orator and manipulator, able to twist the widespread discontent due to economic disparities into hostility towards an easily identifiable scapegoat subgroup. His rhetoric is anecdotal and false, but that doesn't matter to the masses because he's the only one addressing them and giving them an outlet. It doesn't help that Tarrlok's actions only feed into this discontent, and Korra is too immature to realize that Amon must be attacked through his ideas, not just his body.

If the above is the writers' true intention, then it was up to them to make it clear to the viewers. They didn't do a good job. So ofc a lot of viewers extrapolated X-men into the blanks, and felt Amon had a good cause (revolution by the oppressed).

[Kato]

Considering most benders have more responsibilities (And Benders are the reason for the cities 100% eco-friendly energy) I don't get it.

As I said, I can understand why non-benders could feel frightened by benders. There are benders shown to bully other people... or just more skilled benders but still, they are "different", so it's not just any bully. (Also, more skilled benders can be better bullies) Admittedly, that's coming from a person who's not living in a country where each and everyone could own a gun and potentially shoot you on the street given s/he's crazy enough. (Well, at least it's a lot less likely than in other countries)

Also, we are shown there are a bunch of jobs only benders can do, like making electricity. Or being policemen, apparently. Or would you rather hire a sailor who can water bend or one who can not? Benders have major advantages against normal people and while this is probably something people were used to in a rural environment in a city this stuff can have vastly different effects.

(Also, THEY ARE DIFFERENT!)

[MLai]

As I said, I can understand why non-benders could feel frightened by benders.... (Also, THEY ARE DIFFERENT!)

There are key differences between Avatar-verse and our world though. And for that matter, Avatar-verse vs Marvel X-men world.

(1) Having bending is part of their world's global culture and religion, presided over by a living messiah. Let's say shaolin monks are really superhuman in our world... you're still not going to fear them because you're culturally aware that they're the good guys, they follow Buddha, etc etc.
(2) It's impossible to segregate benders because it's not genetic as we know it. You discriminate against benders, and next thing you know your newborn son may be a bender.
(3) Because of that, everybody can benefit from bending. You may not be able to bend. But someone in your family/clan probably can. No one community is totally locked out from the rewards.
(4) Benders aren't wild cards like Marvel mutants. Their powers are known, are finite, and can be controlled. There's no jail that can't hold a bender as long as you design it right. Metalbending police can handle any criminal bender just fine, no superheroes necessary.

The maladjustment and discontent comes more from the rapid industrialization of society.

[Kato]

Okay, just first off: I'm not trying to say everything KoL's setting was great and made perfect sense. But this is the internet and apart from sharing pornography it was obviously created for people to argue on stuff. So let's continue

There are key differences between Avatar-verse and our world though. And for that matter, Avatar-verse vs Marvel X-men world.

Yes, I'm aware the X-Men comparison isn't perfect, it was merely the first thing that popped into my head about fantastic racism.

(1) Having bending is part of their world's global culture and religion, presided over by a living messiah. Let's say shaolin monks are really superhuman in our world... you're still not going to fear them because you're culturally aware that they're the good guys, they follow Buddha, etc etc.

Sorry but that is a terribly poor point. If we were talking Star Wars and Jedi this might be an appropriate comparison but neither is the Avatar the bender god or something nor are they trained with any codex in mind. Benders are just any normal kind of people and imagining my neighbor might be a giant jerk with super powers is possibly frightening

(2) It's impossible to segregate benders because it's not genetic as we know it. You discriminate against benders, and next thing you know your newborn son may be a bender.

Because homophob people never turn away from their children when they happen to be homosexual... Obviously, it doesn't make sense but that's how people are. (It's probably the best example but I'm sure there are others when people turn away from their dearest if they are "different")

(3) Because of that, everybody can benefit from bending. You may not be able to bend. But someone in your family/clan probably can. No one community is totally locked out from the rewards.

Obviously, that is a logical argument but it's also the optimistic point of view.

(4) Benders aren't wild cards like Marvel mutants. Their powers are known, are finite, and can be controlled. There's no jail that can't hold a bender as long as you design it right. Metalbending police can handle any criminal bender just fine, no superheroes necessary.

Point taken. Still, they have powers that make them superior and more dangerous than normal humans.

The maladjustment and discontent comes more from the rapid industrialization of society.

Precisely! Or, let's say, quite likely. TLA never addressed the issue either because in their feudal society it didn't come up, or - more likely - the writers just ignored it. But the rapid change from feudal to industrial society would of course impact the culture immensely and could be the reason behind the aggression.
Point is... the problem is not unjustified but maybe poorly explored. But there are enough reasons for people to be afraid or jealous of benders, heck actually even among benders of benders of another nature (the grass is always greener and so on)

[Dr.Epic]

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Avatar writers the worst romance writers ever, but Legend of Korra had a decidedly worse romance story than Twilight did.

Next thing you'll be telling me is Attack of the Clones is the best Star Wars film.