Triggering content in #875

[Ellye]

When I made the reference, I was more considering post-apocalyptic science fiction like Soylent Green—people killed in mass numbers to serve as food (which would literally be the case here, since Malack feeds on humans). If I was referencing any aspect of real life at all, it was factory farming, where humans have special chambers built to slaughter millions of cows and pigs each year all in the name of efficiency. I'm a vegetarian.

I feel kinda slow for not realizing this since the beginning now, to be honest. It's a fairly obvious - and really interesting - comparison after you pointed it out, but it hasn't even crossed my mind before.

Malack has no compassion for the living (perhaps save for a few select exceptions) because, in the end, he just views them as sacrifice for his god and food for him.

[The Pilgrim]

When I made the reference, I was more considering post-apocalyptic science fiction like Soylent Green—people killed in mass numbers to serve as food (which would literally be the case here, since Malack feeds on humans). If I was referencing any aspect of real life at all, it was factory farming, where humans have special chambers built to slaughter millions of cows and pigs each year all in the name of efficiency. I'm a vegetarian.

And now I'm here thinking that Malack's plan is less a religious fanaticism issue, and more a ploy to feed himself and his kin.

(Also, wow, that's really cool of you that you're a volunteer for something like that. That must be tough at times. No wonder it got to you personally. But thanks for doing it.)

Thanks, through I'm not a therapist, so I didn't help in direct support, but in more periphelical issues (like looking for shelter homes, raising funds, etc.)

I have to admit, this was my exact thought (and strong enough that I shifted from long-term lurking to registering to make it...).

My pleasure to help you become an active member of the community.

[Zmeoaice]

Okay, that also makes sense. Thank you.

EDIT: I personally feel "facility" might have been a better choice because it removes the horrible connotations and historical baggage of that specific word, but "chamber" was also a valid choice and of course it's not my decision. Again, I just kinda want to make it clear that I'm not angry at you or anything.

Chamber specifically means private or enclosed room. It was the better choice.

[ThePhantasm]

And now I'm here thinking that Malack's plan is less a religious fanaticism issue, and more a ploy to feed himself and his kin.

The two are not necessarily antithetical.

[Kepler]

EDIT: Also, I considered using "facility" instead of "chamber." I chose the latter because it strongly implied no spectators, to draw a contrast to Tarquin's method.

Yeah, to be honest, with "facility", I might well have thought of the factory-farming angle - "chamber" for me has connotations other "privacy", although it's nice to see the decision-making process that led to the word choice.

[Mutant Sheep]

Been there, done that.

Gyaaaaah. *palm to the face*. I cannot coooooount.

[Tragak]

I cannot coooooount.

Is that a new vampire joke?

[TheYell]

If I was referencing any aspect of real life at all, it was factory farming, where humans have special chambers built to slaughter millions of cows and pigs each year all in the name of efficiency. I'm a vegetarian.

Bricks of corporate processed meat byproducts have been a beacon of hope and fraternal cooperation to oppressed people throughout the world!

Seriously, an explanation was demanded and graciously given, perhaps the thread should be closed.

[The Pilgrim]

The two are not necessarily antithetical.

Yep. Pragmatism seems to be a definitory trait for Tarquin's group.

[Dr. Gamera]

Also, I considered using "facility" instead of "chamber." I chose the latter because it strongly implied no spectators, to draw a contrast to Tarquin's method.

To me, "chamber" also seems a much more appropriate word choice than "facility" for a centuries-old vampire with a tendency towards archaic language.

[Soylent Dave]

If your offence is predicated on a single word (in this case 'chamber'), then you're by definition making a semantic argument.

It's not the specific content of the strip that caused offence; it's what people read into it. That's not necessarily something the author can control.

That's something important to bear in mind when you find yourself offended by something, really - is the author trying to cause offence, or is this something you're (at least in part) bringing to the table yourself?

-

That ties in to some degree to Trigger Warnings; if you feel that labelling your own stuff with such warnings helps, then fair play, but insisting that others do so is setting up an impossible standard.

I have been treated for & am recovering from a PTSD, and I've had traumatic flashbacks triggered by references to cancer and by seeing someone smile.

I couldn't demand that trigger warnings be put in place for things like that - it would be ludicrous! I just had to deal with the flashbacks (or see the references coming and turn away / stop reading / change TV channel etc.).

It's not realistic to expect everyone else to make allowances for what is ultimately a very specific mental health problem (although again, nothing stops you choosing to make your own allowances as you see fit)

[WindStruck]

Wow, holy crap.

There was a whole book dedicated to a "war" between azure city and the goblin forces. Did anyone complain about having lost someone they knew in a war?

How about the racism redcloak had against hobgoblins, and all the racism between mammal and reptile species. Did anyone whine about such events reminding them of racism they may have experienced?

What about the colon/tumor joke where Durkon is praying for a healing spell but gets a machine and the wrong effect. Seriously, did anyone bitch about losing a relative to cancer??

Simple solution: the problem isn't the comic. It's you. Don't get your panties in a bunch next time.

[Giggling Ghast]

Malack literally will eat the people killed

He's going to eat one thousand people a day? Is he the Jughead Jones of vampires or something?

[SaintRidley]

He's going to eat one thousand people a day? Is he the Jughead Jones of vampires or something?

Well, he and the vampire aristocracy he'll sire.

[FujinAkari]

I just want to go on the record that I was one of (if not the?) first people to respond with "Wait... what? Holocaust? Where?"

Thus, I am amazing :)

[Chambers]

The Giant

Like some others have, I took the "special chambers" line to be a direct reference to the Holocaust. Thinking about it afterwards I realized that the title of the comic had primed me to think about World War II as when I read the title (Calm, Orderly, and Efficient) one of the things that came to mind was the phrase "At least he made the trains run on time!", used in reference to Mussolini.

So when I read the "special chambers" line I immediately put them together and figured that you were making a reference to the Holocaust to illustrate how Evil Malack was. Regardless of whether that was your intent, I felt a chill down my spine when I realized what I was reading. Whether in good taste or not, the art was effective in communicating and reaching me.

All

All the people complaining about the "Social Justice Crusaders" (which I think is a hilarious and awesome title that I will adopt for myself; I'm taking your insult and making it a positive.) need to stop and understand something: you don't get to decide what another person finds offensive. Full stop.

To repeat: You don't get to decide what another person finds offensive.

Just as you are fully in control of what you find in good or poor taste and of what you think is acceptable or not, every other person gets to decide that for themselves. Just because you don't find something offensive doesn't mean that someone else is wrong because they find it offensive.

Belittling someones feelings by calling them things like 'butthurt' and telling them not to 'get your panties in a bunch' is a way of saying that their opinions are wrong, that they are wrong to feel that way about a certain thing, and that they shouldn't feel that way. STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE FEELING. STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T FEEL A CERTAIN WAY.

Yes, I'm internet yelling. Please understand that when you call people names and make fun of them because you think they need to toughen up or get over it, you're not fixing the problem, because the problem is that you think you have the right to tell other people how they should feel.

Don't trivialize another person's hurt because you don't feel the pain period.

[Domino Quartz]

<mini-wall-of-text>

Maybe you should have made that post a page and a half ago.

[Zmeoaice]

lol @ your username... Just lol

The Giant

All

All the people complaining about the "Social Justice Crusaders" (which I think is a hilarious and awesome title that I will adopt for myself; I'm taking your insult and making it a positive.) need to stop and understand something: you don't get to decide what another person finds offensive. Full stop.

The term was social justice bully.

Belittling someones feelings by calling them things like 'butthurt' and telling them not to 'get your panties in a bunch' is a way of saying that their opinions are wrong, that they are wrong to feel that way about a certain thing, and that they shouldn't feel that way. STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE FEELING. STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T FEEL A CERTAIN WAY.

By that logic, when someone is offended they shouldn't tell Burlew that he should have done something differently because his content was disgusting

[Chambers]

The Giants comments about the comic in no way changes the fact that people in this thread have engaged in the behaviors I described, and in fact are still engaging in them after his comments. While I appreciate his input I'm concerned about the reprehensible behavior that some posters are engaging in. It needs to stop.

Edit:

Zmeoaice

My apologies. Social justice bully. Crusader sounds nicer though.

And no, that's not an accurate extrapolation. I did not say that people should not tell an artist that they should not have made a certain piece of art because they found it offensive. Reread what I wrote.

I said that people should stop telling other people that they shouldn't be offended by something. There is a clear difference between "don't tell people they shouldn't be offended" and "don't tell an artist that this piece of art offends me."

[Domino Quartz]

Why are we starting a new argument?

[Zmeoaice]

T
Edit:

Zmeoaice

My apologies. Social justice bully. Crusader sounds nicer though.

And no, that's not an accurate extrapolation. I did not say that people should not tell an artist that they should not have made a certain piece of art because they found it offensive. Reread what I wrote.

I said that people should stop telling other people that they shouldn't be offended by something. There is a clear difference between "don't tell people they shouldn't be offended" and "don't tell an artist that this piece of art offends me."

Except that's not what they're saying. They're saying "This piece of art offends me, and the author shouldn't have done it"

There's a difference between stating your opinion, and saying opinions like they're fact.

[Lvl45DM!]

Why are we starting a new argument?

People found different high horses to ride after we stabled the first few

[Chambers]

Except that's not what they're saying. They're saying "This piece of art offends me, and the author shouldn't have done it"

There's a difference between stating your opinion, and saying opinions like they're fact.

That is what they are saying. Quoted below.

Simple solution: the problem isn't the comic. It's you. Don't get your panties in a bunch next time.

I don't take it as a joke at all. Even with the context of mocking Tarquin's arena.
It was meant to be shocking. It worked, get over it.

Somebody probably also knows someone who was killed by lightning. Or died in one of the many other ways that are referenced. If your relative died of alcohol-induced liver disease, for example, should you complain about dwarven afterlife rules?

The joke was not meaningless, although it falls under the category of joke. Some jokes are grim.

Also, "trigger warnings" are a meme that needs to die.

People need to get over something that happened more than half century ago . . . still?!

Also stop bringing up you're personally involved in that tragedy, a lot of people are, and they're not whning about every reference to that.

I am glad I live in a culture that still honors the concept of free speech. No topic should be off limits for jokes or even serious debate. Don't like it? Grow up.

[Lvl45DM!]

That is what they are saying. Quoted below.

You realize that its equally valid to be offended by people being offended at the strip as it is to be offended by the strip itself?
I don't see you listing the fact that those offended condemned an artist as a 'hack' and all the other negative things said about Rich for authoring what they thought was offensive. If thats ok then telling people who offend me to grow up is, while not productive, allowable.

[Nimrod's Son]

That's a mistake on my part, not an intentional transgression.

I don't believe it was either of those. At any rate, I hope you don't consider it enough of a mistake to change it in print, just for the sake of pleasing a couple of people with thinner-than-average skins.

I said that people should stop telling other people that they shouldn't be offended by something.

People can be offended all they want. Nothing happens when you get offended; you're just offended. It's up to you how a big a deal you make of it... and most of us here would prefer if it were kept to a minimum, cheers.

[rewinn]

Why are we starting a new argument?

I believe the question has been "asked and answered".

If the discussion were to continue, I would point out that there are numerous references to major historical atrocities in literature, including fantasy literature; for example, the opening scene of the first X-Men movie that establishes Magneto's character in a heart-rending way; Life Is Beautiful; The Producers; even OOTS uses "kiloNazis" as a mildly humorous unit of measure. It is simply unreasonable to exclude so major an historical event from the language when used not for humor but to establish character. If the line in question had been an actual punch line, it would be in exceedingly poor taste or worse, but it was not and it is difficult to see how it could have been construed as intended to be funny ... especially when there is ample prior evidence that this author in particular is quite sensitive and aware of the evil of racism.

Consider: what is the motivation behind the entire narrative arc of the series? What set the events in motion even before our heroes came on the scene? Roy's quest is a reaction to Xykon's quest which has been set in motion by Redcloak's quest which is a reaction to ... what?

It is not reasonable to assume that this author in particular is numb to such issues.

But the question has been asked and answered, so I should stop.

---

EDITTED:

I don't think this has been a bad conversation. Just because I disagree with the premise, still I think it has been worthwhile and also conducted mostly well.

[Tengu_temp]

You realize that its equally valid to be offended by people being offended at the strip as it is to be offended by the strip itself?
I don't see you listing the fact that those offended condemned an artist as a 'hack' and all the other negative things said about Rich for authoring what they thought was offensive. If thats ok then telling people who offend me to grow up is, while not productive, allowable.

I'd like to point out that I never called Rich a hack, and pretty much everything Chambers said was directed at me, so yeah, he has a point. As I said before: stay classy, GitP subforum!

[B. Dandelion]

The thing about the "you can't tell other people what they can feel is offensive" argument is that if someone is going to complain that "your comic made me feel bad," that complaint should probably hinge on it having done so via means that could have prevented had there been consideration beforehand, and a following of common courtesy. If anything and everything is potentially upsetting, then while other people may retain their right to the full legitimacy of their own upset, they have to own it themselves if it isn't from an entirely rational source that someone else shouldn't be held accountable for not knowing about.

I mean don't get me wrong I don't think we should say things like "you're a baby for getting upset", which tends to happen a lot in arguments such as these. But "don't ever make reference to anything which could hurt my feelings which are totally legitimate no matter why I have them" is an undue burden to put on other people.

[Nimrod's Son]

Not to mention an unrealistic one.

[Lvl45DM!]

I'd like to point out that I never called Rich a hack, and pretty much everything Chambers said was directed at me, so yeah, he has a point. As I said before: stay classy, GitP subforum!

...Which part of Chambers' speech is directed at you?
And i didnt mean to imply that you did call him a hack. You DID however say negative things about him specifically. I have no problem with this, just pointing out that by Chamber's logic he should. Tengu you have been very classy and held together, I'm not trying to come down on you, or anyone who was offended.