Werewolf Central IX: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Saposhiente]

EDIT: nevermind.

psst... the forum has a delete post function in the edit menu...

[Logic]

I just started in my first Werewolf game, and during play, have come up with two new (to me at least) roles for such a game. I would like feedback from you guys on how you think they would work or if they are even feasible.

Spoiler

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The "Lone Wolf" - This wolf starts out not knowing who any of his teammates are and his wolf allies don't know who he is either. Scrying him yields the result of wolf.

The "tinfoil hat" villager - This villager receives notice on who was scried or baned, but not the results, or who did the scrying/baning. Scrying him yields the result of regular villager.

EDIT: Clarifying

[Internet Flea]

The Lone Wolf is not a fun role to play. They have no way to contact their team or help them in any meaningful way. Maybe if he had his own kill, it would add some complexity to things, but without anything it's just not good.

I like the tinfoil hat; I like "other people's information" roles in general.

[Logic]

The Lone Wolf is not a fun role to play. They have no way to contact their team or help them in any meaningful way. Maybe if he had his own kill, it would add some complexity to things, but without anything it's just not good.

I like the tinfoil hat; I like "other people's information" roles in general.

What other ways might the "Lone Wolf" role work?
What if the Lone wolf also had a scry ability that only showed allegiance? (neutrals, wolves, town, etc)

[Shadow]

What other ways might the "Lone Wolf" role work?
What if the Lone wolf also had a scry ability that only showed allegiance? (neutrals, wolves, town, etc)

Things like that have been done before, but IMO the scry should simply answer wolf / not wolf.
It's still not a fun role. You get all of the risk of a bad guy, but none of the benefits.

There have even been Blind games where the wolves don't start knowing each other and end up forming cells as they find their brethren.

[Internet Flea]

What other ways might the "Lone Wolf" role work?
What if the Lone wolf also had a scry ability that only showed allegiance? (neutrals, wolves, town, etc)

Well, the standard way the Lone Wolf works is starting the Devil out of contact with the wolves. So there's the wolf team, and then there's the wolf with the scry.

Or you could make his votes count for more, or give him a kill, or protection from a lynch, or anything that would let him actually help his team by himself.

[Haruki-kun]

There have even been Blind games where the wolves don't start knowing each other and end up forming cells as they find their brethren.

This is usually added to de-power the wolves in games where they have several power roles or extra abilities, like LLD/Smash Bros, Fears, or (to set a personal example) Alchemists.

[Logic]

The Lone Wolf is not a fun role to play. They have no way to contact their team or help them in any meaningful way. Maybe if he had his own kill, it would add some complexity to things, but without anything it's just not good.

I was thinking on this: with this addition, it is possible the Lone wolf could mistakenly kill a wolf, an alpha or the devil all on his own.

[Count Dingdong]

Oftentimes, if there is a lone wolf with a kill, it is a "safe" kill. That is, there is no friendly fire. They cannot kill teammates. If they are blind, it may connect them to the wolf they tried to kill, though this is more often the case when all wolves are blind than when only the killer is. If the kill fails in this situation, it normally does not reveal why or who was targeted; the baner may assume that they protected successfully, or they may fear that wolves are starting to connect with each other.

[Internet Flea]

I was thinking on this: with this addition, it is possible the Lone wolf could mistakenly kill a wolf, an alpha or the devil all on his own.

That's where the complexity comes from; the Lone Wolf will have to read everyone and try to decide who the wolves are, as well as the Masons and the other power roles.

Or it could leave the other wolves alive, but then it's a scry that kills anyone not allied with you, which is a very powerful ability on either side.

[Count Dingdong]

Or it could leave the other wolves alive, but then it's a scry that kills anyone not allied with you, which is a very powerful ability on either side.

Normally, if a Lone Wolf has a kill, they have the Wolf kill. That way, it's fine that it discerns friends from foe (connected wolves basically have that), but it doesn't give wolves another kill. If they are in addition to the Wolf kill, they are essentially a wolf vigilante and should have limited kills and have to beware friendly fire.

[Logic]

That's where the complexity comes from; the Lone Wolf will have to read everyone and try to decide who the wolves are, as well as the Masons and the other power roles.

Or it could leave the other wolves alive, but then it's a scry that kills anyone not allied with you, which is a very powerful ability on either side.

Normally, if a Lone Wolf has a kill, they have the Wolf kill. That way, it's fine that it discerns friends from foe (connected wolves basically have that), but it doesn't give wolves another kill. If they are in addition to the Wolf kill, they are essentially a wolf vigilante and should have limited kills and have to beware friendly fire.

In that vein, if there was a Lone Wolf with an extra night kill, there could be a "huntsman/vigilante" villager role with a night kill. Friendly fire would apply to BOTH roles. What do you guys think of that?

[Shadow]

In that vein, if there was a Lone Wolf with an extra night kill, there could be a "huntsman/vigilante" villager role with a night kill. Friendly fire would apply to BOTH roles. What do you guys think of that?

That role can either be a blessnig or a curse, as has been proven time and again.
If the Hunter gets trigger happy, he's essentially doing the wolves' work for them. If he's careful, he can be a game changer. But it's a dangerous role to have unless you are amazing at finding baddies.

[Tris]

In that vein, if there was a Lone Wolf with an extra night kill, there could be a "huntsman/vigilante" villager role with a night kill. Friendly fire would apply to BOTH roles. What do you guys think of that?

That role does exist in some games. Another third option is a Serial Killer who is a third-party killing role.

[Internet Flea]

Every Killer role can have a big effect on game balance, usually in favor of the wolves. The more killers you have, the harder the game will be to balance; you have to plan for all of the killers to still be alive after five days, but also for all of them to die early.

And a wolf killer is stronger than a village killer just because both of them are always a lot more likely to hit a villager.

[Count Dingdong]

...and that's why it's a lot of work to balance my game... So many killers and no clue when they'll be in the game.

[Nonayer]

I was thinking of running a Science Fiction themed werewolf game with a somewhat different set of roles and rules. I've already planned most of the details and I'd estimate a minimum number of 20 players to make it work. Although I don't expect it to be terribly unbalanced... I don't expect it to be well balanced either.

My game will basically "borrow" a lot of ideas from games I've read and played on these forums and others and hopefully I learned something from the mistakes I saw.

There will be the classical power roles and perhaps a few others but depending on the number of players there won't be any masons. I also intend to add some items. Some of those items will be distributed among those that don't have any powers and some will be earned or found through events. (basically everyone will have the opportunity to pull a surprise out of their hat even if they're not a role). There will be certain events every few day/night cycles. (again depending on the number of players)

Is anyone interested in participating in something like this? (Not like there are a lot of games about to start at the moment )

[BasketOfPuppies]

I'd do it.

[Andre Fairchilde]

Announcement -
Coming soon - Werewolf in Feudal Japan
Secrets
Shogun's Samurai vs. cowardly Ninjas
Everyone has a role
Blind Wolves
24 hour days and 48 Hour nights
Assassinations, Spying, Fake Deaths, and Blackmail
No electricity or running water. Hot baths and Geishas cost extra.

You'll have to trust us.

Balanced game play
Fast

[EmeraldRose]

Good to see you on here again, even if you are a big meanie and won't let me play.

[Haruki-kun]

So I was thinking about a way to make Neutral roles work, and I came up with one in particular. The classic Neutral role that has no abilities and is just Neutral, and has to do nothing but survive until the end of the game.

Take that role, but add a twist.

The role still has "survive" as a victory condition, but has a night kill ability that can be activated every second or third night (details to be ironed out later). The thing is, though, that he HAS to activate it, or else he, himself, dies. Think of it as an auto-lynch but for night actions. This means that the role becomes an asset that both factions in the game would be interested in controlling, essentially forcing the Neutral to pick a side. It removes the Neutral's ability to sit quietly and draw no attention to himself.

This is not for any specific game I'm planning. It's just something I came up with. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Count Dingdong]

The reason that the Neutral role sits quietly and doesn't draw attention to itself is because the best way to survive is to have no enemies. Once you pick a side, bam, the other side is your enemy. Admittedly, if you're skilled enough, you can play both sides, but that's difficult. Now, let's say you add a kill. The Neutral is now a potential asset, sure, but he's also a threat. To both sides. Add on the fact that he MUST use his power, and he's a loose cannon. Probability-wise, it's likely to help wolves more than town, so town will be out to lynch him. But it's also a kill that can kill wolves, so wolves are perfectly fine with finding and killing him. Simply put, a kill is more of a threat than an asset.

[Internet Flea]

It's definitely going to make their life harder, but I like it. Would the kill be blockable?

[Nonayer]

Maybe giving the neutral roles some other goals aside from surviving in general is a good idea. But giving a neutral a kill and then telling everyone he has it would mean claiming neutral is a death sentence.

Though to be honest most people will always be suspicious of neutral roles because you can never know what they will do.

[aspi]

I'd love to give this a shot when a new game opens up.

What other ways might the "Lone Wolf" role work?

You could say that he was driven from the pack by the current alpha which forced him to live among the villagers for far longer and he adapted. This would give him a kind of passive role, where he is peaceful until provoked. He starts not knowing the wolves and counts as a villager for the win condition, but he scries as a wolf. If he's lynched, he takes one of those that voted against him to the grave with him (his choice or random). If the wolves attempt to nightkill him, he instead kills the alpha and becomes the new alpha (thus losing his abilities and gaining those of the alpha and counting as a wolf). The same happens if the alpha is lynched by the villagers.

Should be fairly complex, as he can try to goad the wolves into killing him to improve his own standing. Villagers will clearly want to avoid lynching him, as they would lose two villagers - so even if someone scries as wolf, there will be some doubt. Wolves don't win much by killing him as they take out a villager but lose a possible replacement alpha.

Of course, with the possible team switch no villager can trust him, so he'll be a lone wolf indeed.

[Saposhiente]

There are lots of unsolvable inherent problems with any role that changes alignment, such as the feeling that all your efforts before your alignment switch were pointless, even counterproductive.

[Nonayer]

The Wolf Game - Stranded in space - has been submitted for approval!

I'm hopping for 30 players in order to introduce all roles/items but it can run with a minimum of 20.

[Haruki-kun]

Okay, thanks for the responses guys. Going to go back and re-analyze it.

It's definitely going to make their life harder, but I like it. Would the kill be blockable?

Always. Baner can block any kill.

[Internet Flea]

Okay, thanks for the responses guys. Going to go back and re-analyze it.



Always. Baner can block any kill.

Well, that might lead to a situation where the Neutral reveals on Day 1 and tells the village who he's targeting so the Baner will protect the target.

[Halae]

Hey guys, so I'm new to werewolf games. Had Ruki explain to me the rules and decided to join one of the ones that are recruiting.

Try not to kill me too fast