El Goonish Shive

[Silva Stormrage]

Hm, not sure how I feel about adding a new character with more screen time. I mean Liz could be an interesting character but Justin, Ashley and Noah certainly need more character development. I would rather have them be more fleshed out than introducing a new character to clog the space.

I guess I will wait and see how much I like Liz's character, I haven't enjoyed her previous appearances too much.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I guess I will wait and see how much I like Liz's character, I haven't enjoyed her previous appearances too much.

Same. I had not even realised she was the same person.

Grey Wolf

[Silva Stormrage]

Same. I had not even realised she was the same person.

Grey Wolf

Ya I only realized it before because one of the previous commentaries outright states it.

I am wondering how personality wise she will stand out though, right now she is just kinda a snide snarker and plays into the whole anti conformity everyone is sheep type of cliche. Not sure how well that will work with more screen time.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Justin really needs to compare notes with Sarah - her active gaydar is extremely accurate, and Justin, poor old chap, needs all the help he can get.

GW

[Silva Stormrage]

Justin really needs to compare notes with Sarah - her active gaydar is extremely accurate, and Justin, poor old chap, needs all the help he can get.

GW

I know right? I was not expecting 5/6 of those guys turning out to be gay. Seemed a bit random to me to be honest. Still I suppose that knocks down Sarah's idea that they were all flirting with her

[Calemyr]

I know right? I was not expecting 5/6 of those guys turning out to be gay. Seemed a bit random to me to be honest. Still I suppose that knocks down Sarah's idea that they were all flirting with her

Either that or she's just the androgynous.

[Randomguy]

Either that or she's just the androgynous.

I couldn't decide.

Spoiler: Option 1

Show

The Androgynous would make a good name for a band.

Spoiler: Option 2

Show

The Androgynous would make a good name for a superhero.

Spoiler: Option 3

Show

the androgynous.

... dot tumblr dot com.

[The Mormegil]

I agree Justin is underdeveloped, but he had plenty of screentime already. We've seen Elliot / Susan, Elliot / Sarah, Elliot / Tedd, Tedd / Sarah, Tedd / Susan post-timeskip. We've seen Ellen and Nanase (not that they did much). I want to see how Grace / Justin developed during the summer - there's got to be something interesting to show.

As for Liz, she can be used to showcase more of Ashley (I'm shamelessly plugging Ashley as a major character again, but hey!). I'm ok with that. It makes sense Ashley has a friend or someone to talk to about stuff, so why not someone that we already kinda know? It's better than having someone else pop up to do the same thing...

As a side note, I just reached the conclusion that Tom is Elliot's lost childhood friend.

[The Mormegil]

As a side note, I just reached the conclusion that Tom is Elliot's lost childhood friend.

Aaaaaaand... wrecked.

[Silva Stormrage]

Aaaaaaand... wrecked.

Hm… I didn't see that coming to be honest. I would of thought Tedd would know about Tony/Elliot being friends. It does make sense now why Elliot can go into rage mode incredibly quickly when Tony does stupid stuff.

Also we found out who the commenter was! Good to know I guess, didn't see that one either.

Also I love Elliot/Ashley's interactions so far really want to see more of them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I agree Justin is underdeveloped,

Errr... no, I don't think Justin is underdeveloped. I was just referencing the fact that he has complained of not being able to find other gay guys (of his approximate age, unspoken but assumed).

GW

[Gez]

Aaaaaaand... wrecked.

Well, it never made sense. Which Tom would have been Elliot's former friend? Manipulative Tom Baldy, or Good Guy Tom?

In the former case, Ashley's exposition about him would have gone in a totally different way because Elliot would have been all "I know that guy, and I'm no longer friends with him because I know he's a jerk."

In the latter case, it wouldn't have made sense because how can you no longer be friends with Good Guy Tom?

[Silva Stormrage]

Errr... no, I don't think Justin is underdeveloped. I was just referencing the fact that he has complained of not being able to find other gay guys (of his approximate age, unspoken but assumed).

GW

I think he was referring to my comment at the top of the page.

And I wouldn't say underdeveloped. I would just say he is less developed then the rest of the main cast.

Also I was rereading some of the beginning parts of El Goonish Shive. And wow that is some drastic improvement by Dan. Like its not even recognizable as the same comic. I wonder if he will ever go back over and redo the first couple arcs to make them up to date with the new art style and writing skill. I doubt it but it would be interesting

[Qwertystop]

Yeah... I was thinking as far as whether he'd ever be able to sell print compilations of EGS, but... apart from the horrible art in the early parts, he's got so many references that can't be called parody (plus many that are parody, but still).

[Silva Stormrage]

Looks like we get to see Susan's inner thoughts now. Also maybe Justin's reaction, not sure if he will have much of reaction to Elliot getting a date though. Other than maybe "Good for him".

[The Mormegil]

I was thinking Tom Manipulative would be Elliot's friend. There are a LOT of Toms, and Tom could easily not have been manipulative back in "what, third grade?"

Tony makes much more sense, however. I just forgot he even existed. The Ronin comes out of the blue, but oh well, it works.

As for Justin being underdeveloped, well... Of course this is in comparison to other people in this comic, and that have had similar amounts of screen time. But. Many of his appearances are just an excuse to make nerdy references (which I like, but don't give much space for growth). Back in Sleepy Times after the Darien arc, he had the hobbit dream. That's supposed to be a major character trait for him. Compare to the other dream sequences: Nanase dreaming of being happy just being herself with Ellen, Ellen's dreams, Grace letting go of her past, Tedd's glove, Sarah's desire for magic, Susan's dream about her father and her past... (Then you compare it to Elliot's and you figure out why I don't like Elliot. Seriously.)
There's been one reference to that dream or personality trait that I can think of. And that's more a Checkov's Gun for Pandora than something Justin knows or cares about.
His relationship with Elliot. Tested at the party, and that's ok, but everybody had something interesting and character-revealing to do at that party (except for Sarah and Elliot I guess; oh wait Sarah finally explained that cat girl episode thing).
Duel of the Discs and Nepotism told us more about Grace than they did about Justin. He sometimes does this "insightful gay friend" part, but that's always about Susan and never about him.
The only story arc that featured Justin and told us something new about him was New and Old Flames. Which was pretty much strictly about him (and Elliot). And even then, it 100% closed the only interesting part of his past and blocked further non-forced interactions. Now, I absolutely loved Melissa and how things went between them, I found it original and interesting. But it did leave poor Justin in the corner a bit, and the following arcs aren't helpful.
You can probably see why I say "underdeveloped" if you compare Justin to, I don't know, Susan. Or Ellen. Or Nanase. Or even Sarah and Tedd.


I advocate for more Justin-Grace interactions for this reason. As a side note, I also think Grace is a bit underdeveloped, but she was a bit too... present at the start of the comic, and we got Death Sentence, so that works.
(As for Elliot I have high hopes for Ashley. Which are most likely going to be disappointed heavily. :( )

[Calemyr]

Spoiler

Show

I was thinking Tom Manipulative would be Elliot's friend. There are a LOT of Toms, and Tom could easily not have been manipulative back in "what, third grade?"

Tony makes much more sense, however. I just forgot he even existed. The Ronin comes out of the blue, but oh well, it works.

As for Justin being underdeveloped, well... Of course this is in comparison to other people in this comic, and that have had similar amounts of screen time. But. Many of his appearances are just an excuse to make nerdy references (which I like, but don't give much space for growth). Back in Sleepy Times after the Darien arc, he had the hobbit dream. That's supposed to be a major character trait for him. Compare to the other dream sequences: Nanase dreaming of being happy just being herself with Ellen, Ellen's dreams, Grace letting go of her past, Tedd's glove, Sarah's desire for magic, Susan's dream about her father and her past... (Then you compare it to Elliot's and you figure out why I don't like Elliot. Seriously.)
There's been one reference to that dream or personality trait that I can think of. And that's more a Checkov's Gun for Pandora than something Justin knows or cares about.
His relationship with Elliot. Tested at the party, and that's ok, but everybody had something interesting and character-revealing to do at that party (except for Sarah and Elliot I guess; oh wait Sarah finally explained that cat girl episode thing).
Duel of the Discs and Nepotism told us more about Grace than they did about Justin. He sometimes does this "insightful gay friend" part, but that's always about Susan and never about him.
The only story arc that featured Justin and told us something new about him was New and Old Flames. Which was pretty much strictly about him (and Elliot). And even then, it 100% closed the only interesting part of his past and blocked further non-forced interactions. Now, I absolutely loved Melissa and how things went between them, I found it original and interesting. But it did leave poor Justin in the corner a bit, and the following arcs aren't helpful.
You can probably see why I say "underdeveloped" if you compare Justin to, I don't know, Susan. Or Ellen. Or Nanase. Or even Sarah and Tedd.

I advocate for more Justin-Grace interactions for this reason. As a side note, I also think Grace is a bit underdeveloped, but she was a bit too... present at the start of the comic, and we got Death Sentence, so that works.
(As for Elliot I have high hopes for Ashley. Which are most likely going to be disappointed heavily. :( )

As I recall, the commentary from earlier in the arc (when they were talking about Catalina's kissing Elliot) that the next arc will "probably" have Justin "more at the center of the story".

[Silva Stormrage]

I swear I agree with the commentary. What is with all this open communication The next arc better be about Pandora trying to expose magic (Maybe Magus will come back? Hopefully?) so we can see the main cast trying to keep convoluted secrets


Also talking about Magus and open communication, was it ever really explained why he didn't just talk to the immortals guarding Elliot instead of the aberration that he did end up talking to? I mean frankly it seems like just talking to them seems like it might work… I mean they seem pretty stupid and last time they saw Magus they seemed to want to talk first rather than attack him. The only explanation I can think of is that Magus's resurrection will do something bad to Elliot/Ellen and the immortals would be against that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also talking about Magus and open communication, was it ever really explained why he didn't just talk to the immortals guarding Elliot instead of the aberration that he did end up talking to? I mean frankly it seems like just talking to them seems like it might work… I mean they seem pretty stupid and last time they saw Magus they seemed to want to talk first rather than attack him. The only explanation I can think of is that Magus's resurrection will do something bad to Elliot/Ellen and the immortals would be against that.

I'm assuming that the resurrection is by means of taking over Elliot's body, which is only possible when at heightened emotion. Not sure if I have canon support for that, though.

GW

[Silva Stormrage]

I'm assuming that the resurrection is by means of taking over Elliot's body, which is only possible when at heightened emotion. Not sure if I have canon support for that, though.

GW

Wait I thought the only reason he kept using his amplify emotions was that, 1: It seems to be his only ability atm in the spirit realm. 2: He needed Ellen to hit Elliot with the beam and was using it to manipulate her.

When he nearly succeeds at resurrecting himself (Before Grace's party) he only amplifies Ellen's emotions not Elliot's.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wait I thought the only reason he kept using his amplify emotions was that, 1: It seems to be his only ability atm in the spirit realm. 2: He needed Ellen to hit Elliot with the beam and was using it to manipulate her.

Yes, you are right. Thinking about it, I now remember that whatever he needs requires a person cured by the dewitchery diamond. I still think that whatever he intends, it will not end well for another being, though, which is why he keeps going to the spirit world's underworld, and not to the elves.

GW

[Qwertystop]

Best guess, it requires re-cursing someone cured by the diamond. If he had been around the werewolf situation mentioned as the diamond's backstory, he might not have had to do much of anything.

[Silva Stormrage]

Best guess, it requires re-cursing someone cured by the diamond. If he had been around the werewolf situation mentioned as the diamond's backstory, he might not have had to do much of anything.

Good point, Pandora did say that it would play a role in his resurrection not that it had played a role or something along those lines.

Still if I was him I would probably try to trick the immortals some how. I mean if he wants to run from them he apparently can do it at will and they really don't seem to be that smart.

[Felius]

Susan and Diane start talking:
Dun dun DUUUNNNN!

[Liliet]

da feels oh my god DA FEELS

Why do I keep getting surprised that this is not a soap opera and Diane is not a moron? We've had enough evidence of this by this moment, and yet I keep getting caught unawares. Will this wound ever heal? Will I ever be ready to mature people having mature relationships?

Have Nanase and Ellen not talked to Susan's mom yet? Or have they talked and got "no" for an answer?...

[The Mormegil]

Have Nanase and Ellen not talked to Susan's mom yet? Or have they talked and got "no" for an answer?...

I think they're likely putting it off for a while.

Random idea:
Diane talks with Susan about this. [Sidenote: it'd be cool if she mentioned that one film with the two girls who are twins and meet each other at a summer camp and... stuff happens I don't really recall it or its title but it'd be cool]

Then Susan does the smart thing and confronts her mother. Likely to happen two storylines from now or so. And we find out stuff about her father and the woman he had over. I'm half-expecting something like he's the real father of both, she's the real mother, they had crazy economic problems or stuff, and Susan's adoptive mother is filthy rich.

Granted, I kinda wish the story was "just" that he's a cheating bastard. That's not something that's shown often, and there's plenty of people like that. But I'm just gonna say that's a possible way the story will develop, just so that I can say I called it later

[Liliet]

I think they're likely putting it off for a while.

Random idea:
Diane talks with Susan about this. [Sidenote: it'd be cool if she mentioned that one film with the two girls who are twins and meet each other at a summer camp and... stuff happens I don't really recall it or its title but it'd be cool]

Then Susan does the smart thing and confronts her mother. Likely to happen two storylines from now or so. And we find out stuff about her father and the woman he had over. I'm half-expecting something like he's the real father of both, she's the real mother, they had crazy economic problems or stuff, and Susan's adoptive mother is filthy rich.

Granted, I kinda wish the story was "just" that he's a cheating bastard. That's not something that's shown often, and there's plenty of people like that. But I'm just gonna say that's a possible way the story will develop, just so that I can say I called it later

The most interesting thing about Diane's and Susan's story is that they know the precise time they were born. They both had someone to note the time and remember it, and more interestingly, to pass on information to them / their guardians. This means their story is more personal than "two infants abandoned by their family, adopted into different ones", or Oliver Twist-style "mother died at childbirth, infants adopted"...

Doesn't necessarily mean that Susan's dad is anything more than he appears, though.

[Sir_Leorik]

I agree Justin is underdeveloped, but he had plenty of screentime already. We've seen Elliot / Susan, Elliot / Sarah, Elliot / Tedd, Tedd / Sarah, Tedd / Susan post-timeskip. We've seen Ellen and Nanase (not that they did much). I want to see how Grace / Justin developed during the summer - there's got to be something interesting to show.

I think he was referring to my comment at the top of the page.

And I wouldn't say underdeveloped. I would just say he is less developed then the rest of the main cast.

These comments are leaving me scratching my head. Justin has gotten a lot of backstory and screentime devoted to his character development. This includes his confrontation with Melissa, as well as his conversation with the Demonic Duck at Grace's birthday party. While he's been absent or only had small appearances in the last few months' worth of story, that can be chocked up to the cast expanding rapidly. Diane, Rhoda and Catalina are getting expanded roles, and Ashley and Tom have been introduced. Given that this story arc is about to end and another begins (hopefully with a Q&A starring Amanda and Lisa in between ) and that might turn the spotlight back to Justin.

Also I was rereading some of the beginning parts of El Goonish Shive. And wow that is some drastic improvement by Dan. Like its not even recognizable as the same comic. I wonder if he will ever go back over and redo the first couple arcs to make them up to date with the new art style and writing skill. I doubt it but it would be interesting

I don't think Dan will, and frankly I don't think he needs to. If anything, leaving the archives intact is a perfect way to show how his storytelling skills, as an artist and as a writer, have blossomed over the years. EGS's art wasn't that bad in January 2002, but the writing was pretty atrocious. That improved quickly, with the "Shade" storyline, and by the time he wrote "Sister", just a few months later, he was showing signs of marked improvement.

The only times Dan has done an art upgrade for his old work is when he's drawing a flashback panel.

[Sir_Leorik]

Random idea:
Diane talks with Susan about this. [Sidenote: it'd be cool if she mentioned that one film with the two girls who are twins and meet each other at a summer camp and... stuff happens I don't really recall it or its title but it'd be cool]

Do you mean "The Parent Trap" starring Hayley Mills? Or do you mean "The Parent Trap" starring Lindsey Lohan?

Of course we should remember that as a general rule Susan is opposed to high-jinks, wacky or otherwise.

[Mina Kobold]

The most interesting thing about Diane's and Susan's story is that they know the precise time they were born. They both had someone to note the time and remember it, and more interestingly, to pass on information to them / their guardians. This means their story is more personal than "two infants abandoned by their family, adopted into different ones", or Oliver Twist-style "mother died at childbirth, infants adopted"...

Doesn't necessarily mean that Susan's dad is anything more than he appears, though.

Not necessarily. Most hospitals will keep track of these things and pass them on when someone is adopted, whether it is because the original parent(s) did not want the children, where unable to keep them or are dead. I suppose if they had been left at a doorstep, it would be more unlikely that both celebrated on the same day, but that is actually pretty illegal in the states (you can abandon a child in the care of the state, but only at specific places)

Which I guess just means that Oliver Twist stories (I don't actually know what the story of Twist is other than that it's pretty grounded in the society of 1800s Britain) tend to be implausible these days due to record-keeping, but that everything else is pretty much open. ^_^'