Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin

[Rosstin]

Synopsis:

Spoiler

Show

A trio of suicidal mid-lifers rediscover love, angst, and hope in a world suddenly devoid of other humans.

But if you think you might like an 80s apocalypse movie, I recommend you just give it a shot. In my opinion, it's very intelligent and human. The first 30 minutes alone are just really great.

Spoiler

Show

The character Joanne has some really excellent quotes that stuck with me, too. She has one where she talks about how we justify people's actions that I hate to paraphrase, I'll have to rewatch it and get it exact.

[Metahuman1]

Potentially interesting, I might give it a swing next time I do an at home movie night by myself.

[Flickerdart]

I don't know about "upbeat" apocalypses, but Cozy catastrophes are a thing.

[Kato]

Holy crap, how come I never realized this first line is in German?

Me neither. And I'm German. And it is pretty good German, I just didn't expect it. and therefore totally missed it. Kind of a nice pun with the Jäger, too.

I thought it's a retelling of Roald Dahl's The BFG.

I don't think I ever heard of it but while from what wikipedia tells me there seem to be similarities it's much too different to be a retelling.

Also my main grip with the series is at how poorly organized the army is.

QFT. (Again. I really really hate that army.)

Still worth a watch out of curiosity + it's the only 'good' anime I've stumbled across this season.

It's up to personal preference of course but I'd argue there are other good and better shows this season. But that's a discussion for the General Thread.

[t209]

manga spoilers

Spoiler

Show

you are, sadly, right. dr jaegar may or may not be the cause, but the armored and collosal titan are people.

From TV Trope and Wiki (manga spoilers)

Spoiler

Show

I wonder how long will it take for humanity turn the tide of the hopeless conflict.
- Military Police are given a well needed discipline in the manga.
- Some shifting titans are on human side (i.e- Jaegar).

I wonder why I don't want to read this comic despite my witnesses to
- Mouth foaming, axe wielding, and chainmail smacking violence of Vinland Saga.
- Demon slaying, sword fighting, and blood bath gore of Berserk manga.
- Warhammer 40,000 wars that lasts for millennium and hopeless for all sides except Chaos (played as comedy in a story of Ciaphus Cain but played as tragedy in a story of Gaunt Ghost).
maybe my inner lust for grim dark stops here.

Also my main grip with the series is at how poorly organized the army is.

I knew that. (spoiler due to revelation of the "cool" army)

Spoiler

Show

- Royal Police are pretty much like real life personal guards army (highly trained but not in frontline and sometimes incompetent). Persian Immortals might be different though since their numbers can be brought back to originals (thus the reason for their "immortal" status) and used as shock troops often. But the king is giving them a good discipline action in recent manga.
- Scouting corps troops are made up of underskilled red shirts, even though the recruits in Royal Police could be put to good use (i.e- 3d armor). That might have changed since the main character can turn into a titan on human side (and many of them are titans).

[SoC175]

The Titans can only be killed with a deep cut to their weak spot (The back of the neck).

Yet somehow have no problem regnerating and getting back up after canons blew away their whole head and throat

Gross physical trauma is irrelevant unless it's in that exact place.

Like just vaproizing anything above their shoulders with a big canon? Yet the giant in the episode just got back on his feet

Couldn't stand watching it anymore after that.

[John Cribati]

Yet somehow have no problem regnerating and getting back up after canons blew away their whole head and throat
Like just vaproizing anything above their shoulders with a big canon? Yet the giant in the episode just got back on his feet

Couldn't stand watching it anymore after that.

There is a specific point that needs to be destroyed: the base of the neck, close to where it meets the shoulders. If that's intact, the Titan is still alive. This is likely to do with the fact that

Spoiler

Show

that's where the person would be in a human-controlled Titan.

[LOTRfan]

Just a theory (along with minor spoilers)

Spoiler

Show

I figured that all Titans have humans in the base of the neck, and what makes Eren and the rest of the shape-shifters so special is the fact that they are still alive when they're in the Titans' bodies.

So every Titan has (essentially brain-dead) humans inside who are in turn victims from previous Titan attacks. They really are just super-sized zombies in that regard. It adds an extra bit of disgust, too, especially when you consider just how many of the Titans are baby-faced.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't think I ever heard of it but while from what wikipedia tells me there seem to be similarities it's much too different to be a retelling.

But it's also about fighting man-eating giants. And <spoilers> is totally the BFG!

I wasn't being serious.

[Rosstin]

This was always my favorite Goya painting:


I am pleased that it has become relevant again.

[Terraoblivion]

My opinion on the show can pretty much be summed up as "yeah, it's alright." It's pretty stupid, has the subtlety of a sledgehammer with a police siren installed on it and the characters probably don't have three dimensions between them, but it's entertaining so I don't really mind, even if I probably won't remember much about it a few months after it's done.

Also, despite that, it's still the show I've enjoyed the second most this season and there is only one I've ever had any interest in that I haven't seen.

[Darklord Bright]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

Spoiler

Show

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.

[t209]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

Spoiler

Show

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.

Just like how the captain from Sins of the Solar Empire intro said about the military,

Spoiler

Show

We do not know how long they were fighting the titans but one hundred years of peace can make the army soft and inflexible enough to send best recruits to frontline. If you think royal guards are not on frontline, look at Roman Praetorian guards, Jannisaries, and British Royal Guards (though they have high level training but it still applies for ceremonial purposes). 20% are actually refugees and the leaders feel that it's hopeless to reclaim some areas.

[Darklord Bright]

Just like how the captain from Sins of the Solar Empire intro said about the military,

Spoiler

Show

We do not know how long they were fighting the titans but one hundred years of peace can make the army soft and inflexible enough to send best recruits to frontline. If you think royal guards are not on frontline, look at Roman Praetorian guards, Jannisaries, and British Royal Guards (though they have high level training but it still applies for ceremonial purposes). 20% are actually refugees and the leaders feel that it's hopeless to reclaim some areas.

Spoiler

Show

The thing is, the royal guards of real life weren't/aren't protecting the entirety of humanity from a very present external extinction event. They should be somewhere they can readily protect the outer walls, rather than protecting the tiny inner wall that isn't protecting any farms that produce the human's food.

[t209]

Spoiler

Show

The thing is, the royal guards of real life weren't/aren't protecting the entirety of humanity from a very present external extinction event. They should be somewhere they can readily protect the outer walls, rather than protecting the tiny inner wall that isn't protecting any farms that produce the human's food.

Remember what I state earlier,

Spoiler

Show

100 years of peace unless the war with titans is going on for decades. (spoiler from manga)

Spoiler

Show

Plus in the manga, Eren Jaegar (the main character) said that humankind are still bickering amongst themselves and short sighted, even in face of extinction. Plus the royal police are getting a good discipline by the king after the second wall collapsed. However, there are no signs of collapsed building and too empty that it looked like evacuation.

but why didn't they build fortresses on islands, especially the ones surrounded by deep sea and ocean trench unless titans can swim? Or the setting is on earth like but with more land and less sea.

[thubby]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

Spoiler

Show

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.

in order

Spoiler

Show

if being the best meant getting the most dangerous job you encourage failure and breed incompetence.

the gap between training and reality has long been a problem and remains one today. look at real world elite units. they are composed entirely of seasoned soldiers because the gap between training and combat is cavernous.

they didn't send soldiers (not exclusively anyway), they sent 20% of the people out to die under the guise of a military effort after conscripting a huge number of them.
humanity can't gain ground on the titans because they have no way to hold positions without the walls. retaking wall maria would depend on getting to it with supplies and actually killing every titan in the area long enough for the gap to be patched.

ignoring the fact that humanity does stupid things like building on breaks and in flood zones anyway, titans are attracted to massed humanity. the titans wouldn't be attracted to the ridges if there wasnt a lot of people in them.
realize that the cities have 2 gates. a break in the wall elsewhere means a loss of the entire wall. a breach at a ridge means the loss of 1 city. the only reason it didn't work is because the armored titan broke through the second gate.

[Rising Phoenix]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

[Eric Tolle]

It is indeed a massively flawed series. To point out some of three problems, where is the martial arts tournament? And the magical girls defeating the Titans with the power off friendship? They don't even have the cute animal mascot, for Pete's sake!

Honestly, the creators of AoT obnoxiously don't know how to make a good anime.

[nyarlathotep]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.

[t209]

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.

Why am I wondering that (spoiler from Manga)

Spoiler

Show

the Titans were actually created to assimilate human.
step 1: eat and turn all human into titan.
step 2: after they're all gone, activate some possible eldritch thingy that involves shifter titan.
step 3: We have ant hive caste system of titans.

[Rising Phoenix]

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.

Welp that information is not available to me as I do not read manga...

As for the current episode. Hurray?

[t209]

I think I may have greatly differing tastes compared to many anime fans, and most of the shows I've been recommended were terrible enough that I stuck to watching HBO/Showtime series and later seasons of Supernatural for my television intake. Though I've recently given Madoka a second chance and enjoyed it far more than during my first attempt to watch it.

As for the latter part, the humans under siege story is only ever really shown nowadays as zombies, but I'd put it story content wise with zombie stories like dawn of the dead and non-zombie movies like Dog Soldiers. Zulu and 300 are kind of in the same boat, but it makes me feel really racist to compare them, or at least makes me think the film-makers are racist.

How about Gears of War? It's kinda hopeless siege story since they resorted to human breeding program and mass conscription against horde of monsters armed with guns.
P.S- Scouting Legion, X-Com agents, Imperial Guards, RTS game infantry, anyone in Song of Ice and Fire (who has the highest death rate).
P.P.S- Anyone who is complaining that highly trained characters being a angsty at facing a titan, there are cases where training and reality has high discrepancy (Plus we have many playgrounders who fought in war and see the reality after their training who will back you up).

[Scowling Dragon]

This seems interesting and has potential, but the mystery is either

A: Non existant and just made as to put the humans in a certain situation.
or
B: Going to be a gigantic letdown.

I donno. This does have the feel of a "Zombie Outbreak" story, even if there is no infection-esque thing. Its even been mentioned that Titans vomit up the humans they eat so no chances of them turning into Titans.

Also the "Only killed by targeting the neck first" is lazy and doesn't make sense and still seems easy to exploit. Tell me that in a hundred years (Even with not as much pressure for development...OK thats a lie. ALLOT of pressure for development) Humans couldn't develop a Cannon bullet that would exploit the weakness quite easily.

Seems to have potential, but I just don't think its likely it will rise up too its potential.

[LaZodiac]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

The reveal is that

Spoiler

Show

the walls are full of titans who used their skin hardening ability to create a gigantic wall.

Also the "Only killed by targeting the neck first" is lazy and doesn't make sense and still seems easy to exploit. Tell me that in a hundred years (Even with not as much pressure for development...OK thats a lie. ALLOT of pressure for development) Humans couldn't develop a Cannon bullet that would exploit the weakness quite easily.

Seems to have potential, but I just don't think its likely it will rise up too its potential.

How is it lazy? Just curious. Because there IS a really good reason for it.

Also, the idea is that humanity has been pushed back so far that we're going BACKWARDS down the tech tree. It's why we're using cannons instead of surface to air missiles and horses instead of tanks.

[Scowling Dragon]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

[thubby]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

since when is exploiting anatomy contrived? any big game hunters will tell you that you that shooting a bear in all but a few places is a good way to waste bullets (and get eaten by a bear). that's a comparatively small thing to a titan and it's not in a fantasy setting.

as mentioned, the canons actually can and do kill titans. they're just woefully inefficient at it which is a big deal to a civilization living in a box.

[LaZodiac]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

It makes perfect sense, though.

Spoiler

Show

The titans are essentially mech suits. The nape of the neck is where the pilot is. Destroying the head doesn't do anything since it's just meat and bone and air, that can just be "rebuilt" as it where. Yes, you can immobilize a Titan by causing lots of damage to it, but the only way to kill it is to excise the pilot from the nape of the neck.

As for why front attacks aren't as effective as back attacks, it's because there is so much flesh in the way if you attack from the front. Now, clearly the smaller titans are exempted from this, but they're small and thus don't matter as much.

[Scowling Dragon]

It makes perfect sense, though.

No it doesn't. I KNOW all the stuff you mentioned. Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK. Even from the fron't a cannon that could blow off a head could blow off a neck.

they're just woefully inefficient

And I guess making "Magic Super ninja gear" is easier to make then a cannon that just rotates faster.

Would have actually made the anime more interesting and unique if its fight scenes focused on Large arms combat.

[LaZodiac]

No it doesn't. I KNOW all the stuff you mentioned. Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK. Even from the fron't a cannon that could blow off a head could blow off a neck.

And I guess making "Magic Super ninja gear" is easier to make then a cannon that just rotates faster.

Would have actually made the anime more interesting and unique if its fight scenes focused on Large arms combat.

Yes, and sometimes their cannons DO succeed in killing one. But not always.

The implication is that it is, yes. It's silly, but it does fit the setting. They've been so pushed back people don't even know how to make faster cannons, but this one thing, this one stupid piece of exploration equipment, we managed to keep hold of that. It's our one main advantage.

And I disagree on that point.

[Flickerdart]

Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK.

They're using smoothbore cannons. You can't really aim with those things, so much as fire and hope for the best.