The "Tales of" Series

[Sylthia]

My list of the most Dynamic Protagonists of the Tales Series. Spoilers, obviously...

Listed most to least, in my opinion. I haven't played every Tales game, but I'll list all the ones I've played/remember to put down.

Just because I don't think a character is dynamic doesn't mean I don't like them.

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Category: Very Dynamic

Luke: I think he has the single most character growth of any main character in the series, maturing to a whiny, spoiled brat to a possible corpse.

Emil: The only other main character that could rival Luke, he gains courage, which turns his dreams into reality.

Category: Potential to be very Dynamic, but falls short

Asbel: Asbel's problem is that 90% of his character growth happens in the first few hours of the game. After the adult arc gets rolling, he's already matured from his brat adolescence.

Yuri: Yuri had the potential to be one of, if the most dynamic protagonist in the series, but the Act 3 fanfic quality story seems to abandon the vigilante vs justice theme the game had going for it.

Category: Somewhat Dynamic

Milla: I think her game could have benefited from more focus on her as the protagonist. The two main character option was a nice experiment, but it could be confusing at times. I put Milla at the border between Dynamic and Static. End-game Milla is noticably different than beginning game Milla. (Note: I haven't played ToX2.)

Category: Not all that Dynamic

Jude: I like Jude, but he seems to be a tag-along protagonist a la Tidus from FFX. He finally gets a bit of significant spotlight in the last act, which ironically requires the removal of Milla, the other protagonist.

Lloyd: Another one, where I like Lloyd, but end-game Lloyd, is pretty much the same guy that beginning game Lloyd is. He seems to prompt changes in others, rather than undergo much change himself, for good or for bad. ToS2, didn't do him much justice. It would have been interesting if he in fact was the one going around slaughtering people in the beginning and he had a reason, good or bad, for doing it.

Cress: It may not be fair to put him on this list. I haven't played ToP in the better part of a decade, but the fact that he didn't leave a Dynamic impression on me is justification enough for this place for now.

Senel: The only real character development Senel seems to have is finding out that he's willing to settle for the sister of the woman he really wanted initially.

[Airk]

I guess you rated Yuri based on sheer potential, because he doesn't really change AT ALL during the game?

[Ulm11]

I guess you rated Yuri based on sheer potential, because he doesn't really change AT ALL during the game?

I think he becomes a bit more responsible but yeah he barely changes during the game.

[Sylthia]

I guess you rated Yuri based on sheer potential, because he doesn't really change AT ALL during the game?

Primarily. Although

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The fact that he actually goes through with killing two at-the-time-posing-no-immediate-threat villains shows how far he is willing to go, whether it's something that he grew to, or was in him all along.

[Airk]

Primarily. Although

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The fact that he actually goes through with killing two at-the-time-posing-no-immediate-threat villains shows how far he is willing to go, whether it's something that he grew to, or was in him all along.

I don't really view that as being dynamic at all. That's like starting the game with a character whose defining trait is "generous" and then sometime during the game they give away all their money. Okay, so they might be more generous than we initially supposed, but nothing has CHANGED.

And I don't really agree that he becomes 'more responsible' either, since practically the very first thing that happens is him going to do a favor for people he feels 'responsible' for.

[Mewtarthio]

I don't really view that as being dynamic at all. That's like starting the game with a character whose defining trait is "generous" and then sometime during the game they give away all their money.

Which actually happens in the game. Freaking orphans...

Anyways, I'm not really sure you can blame Yuri's lack of dynamism on the final act. After all, everyone else in the party goes through dramatic changes over the course of the story, and they all had to suffer through that finale as well. I'd say the problem is that the story never really challenges him like it does the others. Rita has to deal with people who actually want to befriend her, Estelle leaves the palace grounds and enters the real world for once (and the real world promptly does its best to chew her into a fine pulp), Karol gets some real responsibility for once and needs to grow up to match it, Judith has to accept that she can't do everything alone and needs to trust others, Raven goes through all sorts of identity-based hell, and Yuri...

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Yuri basically gets his worldview justified: It turns out the Law really is controlled by an evil, exploitative bastard and he really does fix everything by killing said bastard. He never once questions his belief that vigilante justice is the answer to everything, because he never has to question that belief.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I think the best thing they could have done with Yuri is what they suggested in his fight with

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Flynn. That sometimes you need the vigilante batman and sometimes you need to do-Goode lawful paladin. But you need both, and you can't go far one way or the other, and they balance each other out, always watching each others' backs.

And they almost, almost did that. But they didn't.

[Sylthia]

I think the best thing they could have done with Yuri is what they suggested in his fight with

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Flynn. That sometimes you need the vigilante batman and sometimes you need to do-Goode lawful paladin. But you need both, and you can't go far one way or the other, and they balance each other out, always watching each others' backs.

And they almost, almost did that. But they didn't.

I'd say the PS3 version would have this potential, but...

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I've heard Flynn joining in PS3 version of ToV doesn't make much difference, but has anyone played it?

[Shekinah]

Since you brought up Senel, Rezzy, I'm tempted to rant about him, as he's my least favorite protagonist in the Tales games. Glad to see he's on the bottom of the list.

Don't know what to add to the Yuri conversation, since everyone has made good points all around... um. Disregard the constabulary?

[Sylthia]

Once I get home, I'm going to see if I can upload some of my Tales saves onto my Cloud storage.

Not that I'm OCD or anything.

[Airk]

I'd say the PS3 version would have this potential, but...

I haven't played it, but opinions of people who have good heads on their shoulders (and, for that matter, opinions in general) are that nothing really fundamentally changes in the PS3 Vesperia; You get some more sidequests, and a couple more playable characters who do nothing in the plot, and some other bells and whistles, but no effort was made to change the fundamental failures of the game.

And yes Coffee, I think that was the original intent of the game, but the sad truth is that Flynn comes out looking like a stooge and that very little to nothing of what he accomplishes actually does anything to support the idea that, you know, sometimes, laws work. As a result, Yuri comes off like a self entitled Mary Sue, in spite of being, IMHO, kindof an *******. (My personal opinion is that Yuri doesn't actually divide the world into 'good and evil' or 'right and wrong', but rather, into 'us and them'. Things that are done by 'us' warrant, at the worst, a stern talking to, whereas things which are done by 'them', even when they are the same things that are sometimes done by 'us' are often grounds for death. Similarly, all negative consequences should be shifted onto 'them' - Entelexeia are allowed to sacrifice themselves to save the world, Estelle is not.)

[Demolator]

I got Xillia! Gotta' say this game's pretty good besides Milla's voice acting. The leveling system is awesome, though I still miss the way arts were learned in Symphonia. I'm amazed at how playable the characters are. Alvin and I are destroying! Also where do I find napples?

[Airk]

I got Xillia! Gotta' say this game's pretty good besides Milla's voice acting. The leveling system is awesome, though I still miss the way arts were learned in Symphonia. I'm amazed at how playable the characters are. Alvin and I are destroying! Also where do I find napples?

Once again, I feel the need to step up and point out that there is nothing wrong with Milla's voice acting. There is a lot wrong with the directing of Milla's voice work. None of her deliveries are bad. Many of them are incorrect. This is the fault of the director for not providing the actress with the proper context for the lines, and the fault of the nonsensical style of American voiceover recording where actors read lines in a vacuum.

The Napple is a key item found somewhere in Hamil.

How were artes learned in Symphonia? Please tell me it wasn't the idiotic "use other artes that you might not even like 4000 times" method. -_-

[Sylthia]

Xillia's was okay, but I think I prefer Graces leveling system the best of all the ones I've played.

It's hard to explain, but Xillia's way of scaling levels seems a bit off. You get a snail's pace of SP at the beginning and end, then a poop ton in the middle. I wish it had saled a bit more evenly, or had the bulk at the end. I hear Xillia 2's is even better, but we'll see.

I actually didn't think Milla's voice acting was that bad.

[Zevox]

How were artes learned in Symphonia? Please tell me it wasn't the idiotic "use other artes that you might not even like 4000 times" method. -_-

I think it was primarily just leveling up, and some artes that were combinations of others were learned after using those two artes a certain number of times. Haven't played Symphonia in years though, so I may be misremembering.

[Sylthia]

I think it was primarily just leveling up, and some artes that were combinations of others were learned after using those two artes a certain number of times. Haven't played Symphonia in years though, so I may be misremembering.

That was the gist of it, but I also think whether you went for the S side or T side influenced which moves you learned, like Sword Rain: Alpha vs Sonic Sword Rain.

[Airk]

I think it was primarily just leveling up, and some artes that were combinations of others were learned after using those two artes a certain number of times. Haven't played Symphonia in years though, so I may be misremembering.

So basically the same as Abyss then?

I'm not really sure which my favorite level up system was - I agree that the pacing on Xillia's level ups was screwy, but I'm not sure I liked Graces all that much better because I felt it was a little too fiddly. (Yeah, you COULD use auto title assignment, but usually you wouldn't want to.)

The Abyss system with capacity cores was a bit too arbitrary, because you had no idea what stat combinations would lead to what. Vesperia skill system of tying skills to weapons and, basically, a whole additional type of XP was probably my least favorite though.

[Sylthia]

So basically the same as Abyss then?

I'm not really sure which my favorite level up system was - I agree that the pacing on Xillia's level ups was screwy, but I'm not sure I liked Graces all that much better because I felt it was a little too fiddly. (Yeah, you COULD use auto title assignment, but usually you wouldn't want to.)

The Abyss system with capacity cores was a bit too arbitrary, because you had no idea what stat combinations would lead to what. Vesperia skill system of tying skills to weapons and, basically, a whole additional type of XP was probably my least favorite though.

Vesperia's leveling system sort of reminded me of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance's leveling system.

[Zevox]

That was the gist of it, but I also think whether you went for the S side or T side influenced which moves you learned, like Sword Rain: Alpha vs Sonic Sword Rain.

Ah, yes, I forgot about that. Those mostly influenced whether the move would be more focused on high damage or wider area though, so I typically just made physical combatants all S-type and magic users all T-type.

[Mewtarthio]

Vesperia skill system of tying skills to weapons and, basically, a whole additional type of XP was probably my least favorite though.

I didn't mind the FF9-style ability system. The Secret Artes were pretty ridiculous, though. I mean, really, "Equip some unhelpfully-named abilities and spam every Arte in your moveset consult an online Secret Artes guide to figure out which Arte has been transformed into an entirely different Arte, then spam that Arte fifty times to learn it"? Who thought that was a good idea?
Actually, I kind of suspect the devs had some sort of arrangement with GameFAQs. There was a lot of obscure stuff in that game. At least the Secret Artes weren't missable forever...

I haven't played Xillia. What's the level-up system there like?

[Zevox]

I haven't played Xillia. What's the level-up system there like?

A grid-style system, somewhat similar to FF 10 or 13, if you've played those. Better than those I'd say, but ultimately similar to those in that the overall effect is relatively little different from just a level-up system.

The odd part about it is the rate at which you get points to spend on activating nodes on the grid. Starts out slow, at just 2 or so per level if memory serves, then speeds up in middling levels, reaching 5 per level for a short time, before slowing down again as you approach high levels, until it's as slow as 1 per level. I don't know that anyone could tell you the logic behind that.

[Sylthia]

A grid-style system, somewhat similar to FF 10 or 13, if you've played those. Better than those I'd say, but ultimately similar to those in that the overall effect is relatively little different from just a level-up system.

The odd part about it is the rate at which you get points to spend on activating nodes on the grid. Starts out slow, at just 2 or so per level if memory serves, then speeds up in middling levels, reaching 5 per level for a short time, before slowing down again as you approach high levels, until it's as slow as 1 per level. I don't know that anyone could tell you the logic behind that.

I dunno, maybe they wanted most everybody to be able to optimize pretty well, but make you really grind for the last bit of power?

[Airk]

I dunno, maybe they wanted most everybody to be able to optimize pretty well, but make you really grind for the last bit of power?

I suspect the low rate of points at the first few levels is because of the way the 'orb' is structured - there are relatively few 'buy points' in the early levels of the orb, which means that even though you are getting fewer points, you are getting artes/skills just as fast if not faster as you do later when it costs like 8 points instead of 4 to get a completely unpurchased skill.

OTOH, this is also true in the middle when you switch orbs, and the diminishing rate of returns at high levels is exacerbated by the high number of points required to get anything meaningful, so... prolly coulda used more tuning.

[Demolator]

What stats matter most for Rowan? I might use him if I get tired of Alvin. Also I would just like to state how much I love the fashion accessories. I've got my whole party walking around with sunglasses and bunny ears just kickin' butt wherever they go. It's actually pretty awesome. Even Jude seems tough (Not that Jude isn't tough but he sure doesn't act like it)!

[Sylthia]

What stats matter most for Rowan? I might use him if I get tired of Alvin. Also I would just like to state how much I love the fashion accessories. I've got my whole party walking around with sunglasses and bunny ears just kickin' butt wherever they go. It's actually pretty awesome. Even Jude seems tough (Not that Jude isn't tough but he sure doesn't act like it)!

You can focus mostly on Int for Rowen, and look for skills that you're looking to grab and assign your points accordingly. There's not really a wrong way to do it, and Xillia's one of the easier Tales games in my opinion.

[Airk]

What stats matter most for Rowan? I might use him if I get tired of Alvin. Also I would just like to state how much I love the fashion accessories. I've got my whole party walking around with sunglasses and bunny ears just kickin' butt wherever they go. It's actually pretty awesome. Even Jude seems tough (Not that Jude isn't tough but he sure doesn't act like it)!

To double down on what Rez said - to heck with stats. Stats are what you buy because there's something good in that part of the grid, and should never dictate your purchases by themselves.

Int is absolutely his primary stat, but nobody ever went wrong with Agility, Vitality, or Psy either.

[Sylthia]

I think I was able to upload my game saves to my cloud by zipping the folders. Unfortunately, it's hard to readily identify them now. At least I know they're safe, though.

[Shekinah]

I think I was able to upload my game saves to my cloud by zipping the folders. Unfortunately, it's hard to readily identify them now. At least I know they're safe, though.

Can you rename them?

[Sylthia]

Can you rename them?

I don't want to risk messing up the data.

[CoffeeIncluded]

A new Tales game was announced, and they immediately said it's coming stateside! Say hello to Tales of Zestiria!