General Mordheim Discussion: 1st Dagger is Free

[Blackhawk748]

Ok, so i noticed that there isnt a Mordheim discussion thread, so i felt the need to rectify this. Now since there is also a video game called Mordheim:City of the Damned, we can talk about the here too!

So to save our sanity (or whats left of it in the case of you Chaos worshipers, you know who you are ) the table top will just be called Mordheim (abbreviated MH) and the video game will be called City of the Damned (abbreviated MCotD), or you can just specify, your choice.

So to get things started im going to post my Undead Warband that i will be using shortly. My opponents are yet undetermined, but im 95% sure i will be fighting Ogre Maneaters and Woodelves, 60% sure on Sisters of Sigmar (thats gonna hurt) and our final player was gonna check out Bandits, but he could play anything. So, the list!!

The Hand of the King

Vampire w/ Sword and Axer-125
Necromancer w/ Dagger and shortbow-40
Dreg w/ bow, and Mace-33
Dreg w/ bow, and Mace-33
Dreg w/ Heavy Armor, Mace, Shield-78
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Dire Wolf-50
Dire Wolf-50

Total: 498 GC

Oh and the guy who is checking out Bandits wanted to play Samurai, but the only list i say looked incomplete and not put together the greatest, so if someone knows of a better one, or has used this one let me know so i can tell him.

Alright everyone, lets get to finding that Wyrdstone!

[Leon]

Have you played the PC version ~ i look at it but im wary of Early access games these days.

Used to play a lot and still have a couple of my Warbands about the place (best was the first one ~ Reiklanders ended a campaign with 5 Very Skilled and Equipped Heroes and 2 Henchmen).

Am looking forward to getting back into it at some point particularly when the Sisters of Eternal Mercy come out then i can do a SoS warband without paying through the nose for a limited selection of miniatures .

Have always wanted to do a Vampire Warband tho either as a Strigori or Blood Dragon basis but its hard to get the Minis for both those BLs now that are the ones i want.

[Blackhawk748]

Have you played the PC version ~ i look at it but im wary of Early access games these days.

Used to play a lot and still have a couple of my Warbands about the place (best was the first one ~ Reiklanders ended a campaign with 5 Very Skilled and Equipped Heroes and 2 Henchmen).

Am looking forward to getting back into it at some point particularly when the Sisters of Eternal Mercy come out then i can do a SoS warband without paying through the nose for a limited selection of miniatures .

Have always wanted to do a Vampire Warband tho either as a Strigori or Blood Dragon basis but its hard to get the Minis for both those BLs now that are the ones i want.

I have, and while it isnt a perfect copy of Mordheim (some people have called it Fantasy X-Com) its still pretty fun. The warriors gear is fully customizable (from a set list per warband, just like youd expect) and they have Active and Passive skills as they level up. How ever there is currently no level up system in place, when you make a warband you choose a Rating, either 0 or 10. If you pick 0 your using a brand new warband and if you pick 10 they are at max level and as such cant have a bunch of skills.

Wounds are now a HP bar (i think this is fine for a computer game) and you have Strategy points (these do mostly non combat stuff like movement, swapping weapons etc) and offense points (which use you to smack people) which vary based on the unit. Obviously heroes have more than henchmen.

All in all i say its good, its not Tabletop Mordheim but i think it does a decent job of being a spiritual successor.

Edit: Oh theres only 4 warbands as of now, Human Mercs (you cant pick the region they're from, but eh cant have everything) Skaven of Clan Eshin, Sisters of Sigmar, and Cult of the Possessed. They will most likely come out with more, as they only need Undead and Witch Hunters to finish off the base book Warbands, and they may come out with others, but i havent heard anything so this is just speculation.

[Wraith]

I haven't played tabletop Mordheim for many years, but when I left it was on top of an 11-game winning streak with my trusty Skaven, the Darkblade Assassins (who later went on to found their own Blood Bowl team, but that's a separate story.....) so I have a lot of fond memories.

Even back then, I never faced any Undead Warbands - a lot of players put off by their rather pathetic, unarmed Henchmen, compared to even a comparatively useful Skaven sling/dagger combination. I quite liked them though, because I think that Ghouls - while costing more than twice as much as a zombie - are really worth more than twice as much, too.

Is there a reason that you prefer one over the other, Blackhawk? Or are you just looking for a screen of expendable bodies for your Vampire to 'hide' behind until it's time for him to jump out and do all the heavy lifting?

[Blackhawk748]

I haven't played tabletop Mordheim for many years, but when I left it was on top of an 11-game winning streak with my trusty Skaven, the Darkblade Assassins (who later went on to found their own Blood Bowl team, but that's a separate story.....) so I have a lot of fond memories.

Even back then, I never faced any Undead Warbands - a lot of players put off by their rather pathetic, unarmed Henchmen, compared to even a comparatively useful Skaven sling/dagger combination. I quite liked them though, because I think that Ghouls - while costing more than twice as much as a zombie - are really worth more than twice as much, too.

Is there a reason that you prefer one over the other, Blackhawk? Or are you just looking for a screen of expendable bodies for your Vampire to 'hide' behind until it's time for him to jump out and do all the heavy lifting?

I have great respect for the ghouls, and i actually plan on hiring some after my Wolves die (which probably wont be many matches). The main reason i have so many zombies is because a) i have a ton of them from my VC army b) im a big fan of the Meat Wall tactic and c) they are much better in Mordheim than they are in WHFB because half the game isnt immune to Fear. But ya tactics wise im just gonna use them as a Meat Wall so my Vamp can get to the things i need killed and the Zombies will just drag down the enemy Henchmen while my Dregs support. I really hope my Necromancer gets Reanimation so i can reduce my casualties.

I figure after several matches ill swap out the Wolves (who will probably die fairly soon as im gonna use them like Undead cruise missiles) and get some ghouls, probably cap my warband out with them, so ill wind up with 4 at max, unless i drop a zombie for one, which i may. Depends largely on how things progress.

Also it buys me time to buy some ghouls as i dont own any

[Winterwind]

If your group allows using those, the Bordertown Burning supplement (an unofficial supplement that provides a great amount of rules, scenarios and warbands, all designed for having a campaign in the Dark Lands/Mountains of Morn/beyond, i.e., the borderlands of Cathay - I haven't played it yet, but it looks really, really well done) has the Restless Dead warband, which, I personally feel, is a far more interesting to play version of the Undead, with a whole bunch of fun options, special skills and what-have-you.


I absolutely love Mordheim, and it's played a ton at my local club - more than WHFB, I'd estimate, and pretty darn close as much as WH40k. Besides just regular games, currently we're having a great eight player campaign, with one player just acting as GM and setting up all sorts of scenarios - and he's pretty darn good at it. We're up to the final game (which, sadly, due to scheduling issues won't happen until September), and my Beastmen Raiders are currently tied for first place together with another player (but, while his warband is terribly beaten up and consists mostly of fresh recruits, my warband is in pristine condition and has very experienced veterans). This said, the GM said the finale would be something very special that might well turn the tables completely, so, I'm very much looking forward to it.

My biggest problem with Mordheim is that it keeps animating me to start new full WHFB armies. I only started this Beastmen warband for the campaign, and liked the conversions I did for it so much (my "Beastmen" are catfolk; the minotaur is, in fact, a meowtaur...) that I ended up turning it into a full fledged army (complete with a winged, three-headed Cheshire Cat for a Jabberslythe. Yes, I may have issues. ). Now, I'm going to be making a Warmonks of Cathay warband (from that supplement I linked above)... and I'm seriously pondering making it into an Empire army, but with completely Chinese-styled models, to represent a Cathayan army. And eventually, I also want a Restless Dead warband - and Vampire Counts were the army I had wanted to start for forever anyway! So... somebody save me, please?

[Blackhawk748]

If your group allows using those, the Bordertown Burning supplement (an unofficial supplement that provides a great amount of rules, scenarios and warbands, all designed for having a campaign in the Dark Lands/Mountains of Morn/beyond, i.e., the borderlands of Cathay - I haven't played it yet, but it looks really, really well done) has the Restless Dead warband, which, I personally feel, is a far more interesting to play version of the Undead, with a whole bunch of fun options, special skills and what-have-you.

Ive seen the Restless Dead list, and its the backup for my current list if i ever get wiped. Well that and Skaven.

Also Cat Beastmen? That is unexpected, but i bet they look really cool.

[Winterwind]

Also Cat Beastmen? That is unexpected, but i bet they look really cool.

They are the Children of the Horned Cat, you see.

I'll post pictures some time, when I get around to taking any. Which I've been kind of procrastinating on doing for forever. Maybe when I finally finish painting the Winged Three-Headed Cheshire Cat...

[Blackhawk748]

They are the Children of the Horned Cat, you see.

I'll post pictures some time, when I get around to taking any. Which I've been kind of procrastinating on doing for forever. Maybe when I finally finish painting the Winged Three-Headed Cheshire Cat...

Im like that with painting my army, but i dont really wanna paint 120 zombies.... However my Warband will be painted, as its only 13 models, so i can do that and of course ill post pics whenever that gets done.

Edit: Ok this isnt specific to Mordheim, but its kinda related. While assembling one of my Dregs i stuck a magnet in his side backwards, so obviously it doesnt work now. So does anybody know how to break a super glue bond? FYI the magnet is in the model, as in i drilled a small hole and that is where it sits. Any help is appreciated.

[Blackhawk748]

This is what happens when i get bored at work, i think of Mordheim Scenarios (or are these events?)

Scenarios for Fun and Profit

1. Havoc on the High Ground
Special: When you roll this Scenario roll on the scenario table in the Mordheim core book to determine the scenario objective.
Warning: This Scenario works best on a map with a LOT of terrain.

Rules: Floodwaters: At the beginning of the second turn and every turn thereafter roll 1d6+the current turn number, if the total is 7 or higher the map floods. Any model not at least 1" off of ground level (this should be determined before the game) must make a Strength check or be swept 1d6 inches downstream (this should also be determined before the game). If the model would hit a piece of terrain its takes an automatic hit, with Str equal to the distance it would have continued to travel.

Also all movement at ground level is halved, rounded up.

2. Winds of Magic
Special: When you roll this Scenario roll on the scenario table in the Mordheim core book to determine the scenario objective.

Rules: Winds of Magic: All casters in this Scenario may receive a +1 on their casting rolls (choose when rolling to cast)

Winds of Chaos: If double 1s are rolled on a casting check while claiming the +1 from Winds of Magic, a Murder Daemon is summoned randomly on the board. Place a marker in the middle of the battlefield and roll a scatter die and 4d6 to determine where it comes in, measured from the marker

Murder Daemon

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	LD
2d6	4	0	4	4	3	4	3	9

Equipment: The Daemon has no equipment and suffers no penalties for striking unarmed.
Special Rules: Daemon, Frenzy, Chaotic Movement, Large Target
Daemon: The Murder Daemon has a special 5+ armor save, this is modified as normal by a high strength and various weapon types. Magic Weapons completely bypass this save. Daemons are also Immune to Posion and Psychology and cause Fear.
Chaotic Movement:The Murder Daemon takes its turn in between the two players turns, it moves by rolling a Scatter Die and 2d6. It ignores any intervening terrain, weather by jumping or flying short distances.
Frenzy: This is the normal rule from the core book with one addition, the Murder Daemon charges the first target it can see (it can see 8", twice its Initiative)

Winds of Fortune: If a warband slays the Murder Daemon they receive D3 Wyrdstone (or Treasures) and +1 Experience to allocate.

3. Rabble Rouser

Rules: Rabble Rabble Rabble!!:At the beginning of the game, after both players have deployed, roll 1d6+4. You and you opponent then take turns deploying that many Rabble. their deployment zone is anywhere within 12 inches of the table center.

Rabble

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	LD
4	3	3	3	3	1	3	1	7

Equipment: Torch and (roll 1d6) 1-2 Dagger, 3-4 Club, 5-6 Spear
Angry Mob!!: They're Angry! As such they are immune to Fear and must attack the nearest (non Rabble) model they can see, which thanks to the torch, is 7"
What are you angry about?: The rabble is unfocused, as such use a scatter die to determine what direction they move, Rabble cannot run.
The Rabble goes last in the turn order.

Objectives: The Warband who took the most models out of Action is the winner, obviously Rabble count for this.

Rewards: Survive: Each Surviving Hero or Henchmen group gains +1 Experience if it wasnt taken out of action.
Winner: The winning Warband's leader gains +1 Experience.
Kill Count:Heroes and Henchmen groups gain +1 Experience for each model they take out of action

[Blackhawk748]

Battle Report

Spoiler: Undead vs. Ogre Maneaters

Show

The Hand of the King
Vampire w/ Sword and Axer-125
Necromancer w/ Dagger and shortbow-40
Dreg w/ bow, and Mace-33
Dreg w/ bow, and Mace-33
Dreg w/ Heavy Armor, Mace, Shield-78
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Zombie-15
Dire Wolf-50
Dire Wolf-50

Maneaters
Captain w/ Sword and Iron Fist
Mountain Guide w/ Ogre Club and Sword
Youngblood w/ Spear and Iron Fist
Youngblood w/ Sword and Ogre Club

The Scenario
Street Fight: I was not happy about this as my Warband is slow, but whatever.

Spoiler: Turn 1

Show

The Ogres got first go,so they set up taking up the whole street and they just walked.
Then i went, My zombies where split in two groups of 3 on each side of my vamp and puppies in the middle of the street, with bow dregs behind and melee Dreg on the left and Necro on the right (he rolled Spell of Awakening ) and i walked and took a pot shot with my two bow Dregs. They missed.

Spoiler: Turn 2

Show

Captain and Pig Sticker (youngblood with spear) charge my Dire Wolves (who were ranging in front like good doggies) Captain wacks one good and Knocks him down. The youngblood knocks the other over.

I go. My zombies advance menacingly, my Dregs and Necro shoot and score one wound between them on the other Youngblood, and my vamp charges the Mountain guide, He parries my only hit and then wallops me with a crit and takes me out of action (that was disturbingly quick.)

Spoiler: Turn 3

Show

Ogre Captain nails my wolf, knocking him over again, an the other Youngblood charges and takes him out. Pigsticker misses and my wold takes a chunk out of his leg (go wolf!) Mountain guide charges Melee Dreg and stuns him.

Zombies charge!! Three zombies on the left charge the mountain guide and two make it to the Youngblood who took out my wolf. The three against the Guide manage to take out a wound (good lord ) while the other two flail wildly. The Dregs and the Necro shoot the captain and manage a Wound!

Spoiler: Turn 4

Show

Captain charges a Zombie and promptly takes him out. Pigsticker knocks over the wolf again (im sensing a trend here...) Mountain Guide takes out Melee Dreg and knocks over a Zombie.

Zombies go and Flail Ineffectually and my Dregs and Necro make a run for the other side of the board.

At this point we needed to call it as the Game store was closing, so we called it a Draw as this fight was all over. So the ogres end with the Youngbloods both at one wound, the Mountain Guide at full, and the Captain at 2. I am down 1 Zombie, a Dire Wolf, my Vamp and my Melee Dreg, but my three remaining heroes where making a B-line for the other street edge, so i could have gotten first off and maybe even dropped the two Youngbloods. All in all it was a good game and it was wacky as hell (as it should be) i just got stuck with a bad scenario for my warband.

And i just triple posted, bad me!

[Wraith]

Street Fight is hilarious when two of your Skaven Heroes have the Infiltrate skill. I only did it once - just to prove that it was possible, and then we scrubbed the game to do it "properly" - but turn 2 wins with no casualties are like sweet, sweet warpstone in my paws just for turning up.

What races did your fellow campaigners choose in the end, Blackhawk? You said that the Ogres and Wood Elves were almost certain, are Sisters and bandits still on the agenda too? (I have to admit, in a new campaign I always think of the person who wants to bring Ogres as 'That Guy' but I'll try to hold my reservations in... reserve. )

[Blackhawk748]

Street Fight is hilarious when two of your Skaven Heroes have the Infiltrate skill. I only did it once - just to prove that it was possible, and then we scrubbed the game to do it "properly" - but turn 2 wins with no casualties are like sweet, sweet warpstone in my paws just for turning up.

What races did your fellow campaigners choose in the end, Blackhawk? You said that the Ogres and Wood Elves were almost certain, are Sisters and bandits still on the agenda too? (I have to admit, in a new campaign I always think of the person who wants to bring Ogres as 'That Guy' but I'll try to hold my reservations in... reserve. )

Well our Woodelves player had to pull out and the Sisters of Sigmar player changed his mind. Hes looking at Cult of the Possessed now, he felt mean picking Sisters as they are really good against me, but only ok against everyone else. The Bandit player is still thinking, Bretonian Knights are a maybe (i think this would be a good choice).

Honestly i didnt find the Ogres all that bad. I mean theres only 4 of them. I kill one and he needs to do a Rout test. I just need to work on my tactics, and not get street fight lol

[Eldan]

I write scenarios too, mostly for an aborted campaign we once had. I had a similar one to yours with the flooding, except there was no current, the streets just got unpassable after a while. (Strength check to move). Also, we had rats coming out of the sewers. Skaven giant rats randomly spawing in the street and climbing up the walls to attack the nearest target.

[Neon Knight]

I've never played, but have been interested in TT Mordheim for a while now. My only real experience with Games Workshop products has been a very brief and abortive attempt to get into 40k and a lovely and lasting relationship with the also officially unsupported Bloodbowl. How does Mordheim play compared to those? Where can I find resources for it?

[Eldan]

The rules are free, but GW has restructured their site so often (and thrown out all the articles repeatedly) that I have no idea where they are now.

It's a basic skirmish system, and a good one. Compared to Blood Bowl... more complicated, I'd say. There's magic and shooting happening on the table. Though still much, much simpler than WHF.

[Wraith]

Honestly i didnt find the Ogres all that bad. I mean theres only 4 of them. I kill one and he needs to do a Rout test. I just need to work on my tactics, and not get street fight lol

Eh, I guess it depends. Only taking down 1 guy sounds fine, but if you have only s3 guys then it can be a nightmare to do any damage to a T5 multi-wound Fear-causing character.
Vampires and Possessed don't worry too much about it, but everyone else who isn't prepared will struggle.

I'm not screaming "OP!" or anything, but Ogres are very, very different to play against than other Warbands, so in any scenario that doesn't have an instant-win condition (like Street Fight) can easily turn into an unpleasant grind of hoping to roll 6's before your opponent rolls 4's.

[Blackhawk748]

I've never played, but have been interested in TT Mordheim for a while now. My only real experience with Games Workshop products has been a very brief and abortive attempt to get into 40k and a lovely and lasting relationship with the also officially unsupported Bloodbowl. How does Mordheim play compared to those? Where can I find resources for it?

Enjoy!

Also i recommend watching this. Guerrilla Games does Throwback Thursdays and the past several have all been Mordheim. I recommend watching all of them as they are fairly entertaining and do a good job of showing what Mordheim is.

Eh, I guess it depends. Only taking down 1 guy sounds fine, but if you have only s3 guys then it can be a nightmare to do any damage to a T5 multi-wound Fear-causing character.
Vampires and Possessed don't worry too much about it, but everyone else who isn't prepared will struggle.

I'm not screaming "OP!" or anything, but Ogres are very, very different to play against than other Warbands, so in any scenario that doesn't have an instant-win condition (like Street Fight) can easily turn into an unpleasant grind of hoping to roll 6's before your opponent rolls 4's.

Oh ya i cant totally see that. I just really hope he doesnt get Toughness on his advancement chart. Or i hope i get Spell of Awakening again and then the goal becomes "kill an Ogre"

[Killer Angel]

As suggested, I should post my questions here, rather than in the general warhammer fantasy thread (), so...


I'm starting to think to a warband for my first Mordheim's experience, entering a campaing already on the run.
The current warbands are:
Skaven (heavy magic and a cople of rat-ogres)
Carnival of chaos with plague cart and a tainted one full of blessings
Ogres... after the death of a leadbelcher and some poor performances, probably the player will skip to vampires
Humans (gunnery school of Nuln): Warband with many snipers, crazy skills and range. Actually the strongest one.

I'm planning to play dwarfs, with a mix of ranged and melee...
First doubts: quality or quantity? offence or defence?

what I'm thinking 'til now,:
HEROES:
Noble dwarf (Gromril armor, shield, helmet, dwarf axe). S3 it's not great, but the shield gives me a better defence than 2hWeap, and with the dwarf axe I get a parry. Should i lose the parry and the shield, in favor of a 2hW? (Note: For a starting warband, i pay gromril armor "only" 75).
Engineer (crossbow, light armor).
Troll Slayer (2 dwarf axes)
HENCHMEN
Thunderer (light armor, crossbow).

Tnx to the engineer, I'll have extra range on my xbows, so I should have some long-range cover, and my Lord should be hard to kill.
The Slayer is there because to have one extra hero is good, He can parry (and re-roll a failed one), and will have 4 attacks if he charges, but he's slow, and I don't know if he can reliably survive.
I've got another 50 to spend. More / better equipment for those 4 dwarfs, or should I add a half-naked Beardling?

[Wraith]

I played Dwarfs a little bit, a long, long time ago, but a few lessons still come to mind.

Your guys and equipment tends to be on the expensive side, so it's very important to have all of your heroes for the purposes of gathering gold and wyrdstone after a game. If I recall correctly, Trollslayers refuse to go scrounging but still count as a body for the purposes of working out your income (at least, in the version of rules that I was using) so with that in mind I'd say it's a good idea to get that Beardling early on.

I also found that if you can hit your opponent reliably, it's better to hit them hard and make sure that they go down rather than to hit them several times with lower odds of success. This is especially true if you have a fairly small warband, as you need to finish fights quickly before your opponent can bring their superior numbers to bare. With that in mind, I liked to give my Noble a 2Handed Axe - he's got decent Weapon Skill so use him to thin out the enemy ranks, trusting in your armour to ensure that they take rout tests before you do!

Arguably, same for the Trollslayer. Perhaps more so because he doesn't have armour, so he needs to be able to finish a fight quickly and then run for cover rather than stand around while archers line up good shots on him for a turn or two.

I think that covers most of what I remember.... I know that I always liked pistols more than crossbows, but then I deliberately kept my warband small in order to offset the 15+ models that I wielded in my Eshin warband, so feel free to ignore that particular recommendation.

[VexingFool]

I think you have too much invested in armor for a starting warband. Dwarves are pretty tough with their toughness-4 and 'Hard to Kill'. As Wraith said you want to max out your heroes so you have a better chance at scrounging wyrdstone post battle. Then you can use that gold to buy better equipment. I'd go with something like this:

Spoiler: Dwarf Warband

Show

Dwarf Noble 85
- Dwarf Axe 15
- Hammer 3
- Light Armor 20
- Shield 5

Dwarf Engineer 50
- Crossbow 25
- Extra Dagger 2

Troll Slayer x2 100
- 4x Dwarf Axes 60

Thunderers x2 80
- Crossbow x2 50
- Extra Dagger x2 4

This gives you 4 heroes and 6 models total. You will probably have 2-3 heroes not be knocked out by the end of game which will generally put you on the 6-11 roll for 2 pieces of wyrdstone. Add +1 for the Dwarf Treasure hunter bonus and that means 3 pieces of wyrdstone which will net you 70 gold which you can upgrade your equipment with. If you manage to win and have all your heroes not get knocked out you are probably looking at 5 shards for 95 gold.

[Killer Angel]

First of all, tnx to y'all

I also found that if you can hit your opponent reliably, it's better to hit them hard and make sure that they go down rather than to hit them several times with lower odds of success. This is especially true if you have a fairly small warband, as you need to finish fights quickly before your opponent can bring their superior numbers to bare. With that in mind, I liked to give my Noble a 2Handed Axe - he's got decent Weapon Skill so use him to thin out the enemy ranks, trusting in your armour to ensure that they take rout tests before you do!

I think you have too much invested in armor for a starting warband. Dwarves are pretty tough with their toughness-4 and 'Hard to Kill'. As Wraith said you want to max out your heroes so you have a better chance at scrounging wyrdstone post battle. Then you can use that gold to buy better equipment.

OK, I can cut some armor and see what I can get. In the same way, I can give my lord a 2 handed axe and go for "hit hard".
The only issue about the "better equipment later", is that I really want to give my lord a gromril armor, because now I can have it at 75 gold as starting equipment, while later I'll have to roll for the rarity, and it will cost 150.
So I'll cut some equipment, while keeping the gromril armor; I'll post the new list.


EDIT:

(staying with "first: defence" for my Lord), here's a probable list:

HEROES:
Noble dwarf (Gromril armor, shield, helmet, dwarf axe). 190. (the anvil?)
Engineer (crossbow). 75
Troll Slayer (2 dwarf axes) 80
Troll Slayer (2 dwarf axes) 80

HENCHMEN
Thunderer (crossbow). 65

...and I'm even saving 10 golds.

[Blackhawk748]

EDIT:

(staying with "first: defence" for my Lord), here's a probable list:

HEROES:
Noble dwarf (Gromril armor, shield, helmet, dwarf axe). 190. (the anvil?)
Engineer (crossbow). 75
Troll Slayer (2 dwarf axes) 80
Troll Slayer (2 dwarf axes) 80

HENCHMEN
Thunderer (crossbow). 65

...and I'm even saving 10 golds.

Seems solid, i mean that Noble will be nigh on unkillable against most opponents, just watch out for hordes and you should be ok. Oh and Axes and Vampires with Axes, they will ruin your day

[VexingFool]

Looks good. Having 5 models will also prevent you from having to make a panic check after your first casualty. I'd use the extra 10 gold to give your engineer and thunderer an extra hand weapon for when they are inevitably involved in hand to hand. More attacks are always good and Dwarfs have good weapon skills.

You should have enough money to purchase an extra thunderer after each battle. I'd pick them up after the first few battles before the thunderer's XP level gets too high.

[Science Officer]

Fantasy player somewhat curious.
How possible would it be to create a Mordheim team? band? out of stuff from my skaven army.
Would there be lots of converting needed, or strange units (don't have any Eshin stuff).

[Janwin]

So, I can still see some potential issues with what you have, and improvements.

With Dwarves for Mordheim, there's a few things to keep in mind, some of which you already have.

1. always take max heroes. Always. Period. You need them in order to scavenge, and even with the Dwarf bonus of +1 Wyrdstone, you still need more heroes. Most other warbands start with 5 heroes, Dwarves start with 4.

2. armor isn't worth its cost. Due to there being so many different ways to bypass armor, it's not worth the cost at all. 75 gc seems cheap, until you realize that you can get a kitted clansman and beardling for the same cost. Axes and high strength reduce armor saves, and criticals can simply ignore armor saves. You're better off with the extra bodies early game, until you have nothing else to buy and can then put money into overcosted armor. Especially since everyone gets Toughness 4, so you're already more resilient than most.

3. Dwarves need lots of henchmen units. Remember that you start with 4 heroes, but have 6 hero slots. You're still allowed to have 6 heroes just like everyone else, which means you need to roll some "That Lad's Got Talent"s. The more henchmen you have, specifically in as many single henchman units as you can get, the more chances you have to upgrade one to a hero and increase your gold production with more scavenge rolls.

The list that I'm currently considering for a campaign is:

Spoiler: Dwarf Warband

Show

Heroes:

Noble; Dagger, Dwarf Axe, Hammer - 103

Engineer; Dagger, Crossbow, Hammer - 78

Troll Slayer; Dagger, Dwarf Axe, Dwarf Axe - 80

Troll Slayer; Dagger, Double-handed Weapon - 65

Henchmen:

1x Clansman; Dagger, Hammer, Axe - 48

1x Thunderer; Dagger, Crossbow, Hammer - 68

1x Beardling; Dagger, Hammer - 28

1x Beardling; Dagger, Hammer - 28

Warband Rating: 86

This list gives you 8 bodies, which is a lot for Dwarves. More attacks and more wounds is better. You can voluntarily route after losing your two Beardlings, who are simply there as meat shields for your better Dwarves (if you face an opponent who would likely wreck you, send the beardlings forward to die, and then route your more valuable Dwarves without a chance of losing them). With 4 henchmen, each time they rank up, that's 4 chances of getting another hero.

If you absolutely wanted to stick with the armor at the start, I'd suggest some minor changes:

Spoiler: Armor Dwarves

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Heroes:

Noble; Dagger, Gromril Armor, Dwarf Axe, Hammer - 178
I really dislike having 1 guy be over 35% of your total starting gc. Additionally, he costs as much as a fully kitted (to the nines) Vampire Lord, but isn't as good. You don't need the helmet since Dwarves already have a racial bonus that helps (helmets are nice, but buy it later), and you're better off with more attacks than one more armor from the shield.

Engineer; Dagger, Crossbow, Hammer - 78

Troll Slayer; Dagger, Dwarf Axe, Dwarf Axe - 80

Troll Slayer; Dagger, Double-handed Weapon - 65

At this point, you have 401 gc in heroes, leaving you with 99 for your henchmen.

Henchmen:

1x Thunderer; Dagger, Crossbow, Hammer - 68
Give the hammer so he's dual-wielding in melee. 2 attacks is very nice, and hammers are great and cheap.

1x Beardling; Dagger, Hammer - 28
Meat shield

Total GC: 497

Warband Rating: 76

In this list, you get 6 bodies. The problem is that you can't voluntarily route without losing (in the best case scenario) your beardling and your thunderer. Losing heroes sucks since they could end up crippled or dead, plus they don't get to loot if they're out of action, so it's best to try and avoid it however you can. However, in your 5 man list you're even worse off because you absolutely must lose a hero before you route.

[Janwin]

Fantasy player somewhat curious.
How possible would it be to create a Mordheim team? band? out of stuff from my skaven army.
Would there be lots of converting needed, or strange units (don't have any Eshin stuff).

Very possible. And very little converting. Skaven are pretty convenient in that they're all just rats holding different weapons.

[Eldan]

Unless you want an ogre, just buy a box of night runners. 20 plastic models, pretty cheap. And apparently made for Mordheim: the box contains several weapon options they can't have in fantasy, such as shields and spears. It also has swords, daggers, thrown weapons, climbing claws and slings. So the only things that need a bit of converting are pistols, magic and clubs, which are easy.

[Killer Angel]

2. armor isn't worth its cost. Due to there being so many different ways to bypass armor, it's not worth the cost at all. 75 gc seems cheap, until you realize that you can get a kitted clansman and beardling for the same cost. Axes and high strength reduce armor saves, and criticals can simply ignore armor saves. You're better off with the extra bodies early game, until you have nothing else to buy and can then put money into overcosted armor. Especially since everyone gets Toughness 4, so you're already more resilient than most.

My reasoning for that gromril + shield.
(leaving aside the fact that i like to imagine my lord with THE most iconic dwarven armor), in my meta I will probably face at most enemies with S5 or S4 with -1 to armor saves. So, we're talking about -2 to saves. This means that i should go for no armor at all, hoping in my toughness,, or go heavy... and gromril +shield, against those enemies, means a save at 5+. Not exceptional, but not bad.

3. Dwarves need lots of henchmen units. Remember that you start with 4 heroes, but have 6 hero slots. You're still allowed to have 6 heroes just like everyone else, which means you need to roll some "That Lad's Got Talent"s. The more henchmen you have, specifically in as many single henchman units as you can get, the more chances you have to upgrade one to a hero and increase your gold production with more scavenge rolls.

Good point with "got talent". I'll think on it, and see if I can squeeze in the list a beardling.

Tnx.

[Janwin]

The problem is that you're paying 80gc for that gromril + shield in order to get a 5+ save (unless they crit, and it's no save). That's 80gc that could buy you another 2 wounds and 4 attacks. Sure, if you make that 1/3 chance to save, great, but you're far better off with the extra bodies.

Let's do some math, because math is fun, right?

Your Dwarf Noble vs a Vampire Lord. We'll equip them with how they'd likely be set up.

Dwarf Noble: Gromril Armor, Shield, Dwarf Axe - 180 gc
Vampire Lord: Great Weapon, Helmet - 135 gc (wow, that means he can actually afford, in addition, 3 zombies too, but we'll discount them for now)

Dwarf swings:
Fear test! LD 10 means you have a pretty good chance to pass. 91.66% chance to pass. We'll say you pass for this example.
1 Attack at WS 5 vs WS 4. 3+ to hit.
S3 vs T4. 5+ to wound.
11% chance to cause a wound. 11% chance to cause a critical.
Ok, not bad.

Let's say you failed your fear test (9% chance of that happening).
1 Attack needing 6 to hit.
S3 vs T4. 5+ to wound.
2.7% chance to cause a wound. 2.7% chance to cause a critical.
Whoa, game over man.

Vampire swings:
2 Attacks at WS4 vs WS 5. 4+ to hit.
S6 vs T4 = 2+ to wound.
66% chance to cause a wound. 17% chance to cause a critical.
Against the normal hit, you get a 6+ armor save (fat lot of good that armor did you), meaning there's still a 55.5% chance that you take a wound when the Vampire swings.
Against the critical, there's a 33% chance that you even get a save, which again needs a 6+. So 17% of the time, the Vampire will crit you. 5% of the time you'll get a save against the hit. Which means that every time the Vampire swings, 12% of time your 80 points in armor is completely worthless.
Ouch!

So yeah, being able to say "well, they're only going to be S5 or S4, so armor still has use" is great, but once you add in critical hits to the mix, armor very rapidly loses value. Simply because it will get negated any time someone rolls a 6 to wound. Even that S3 zombie over there, rolling a 6 to wound, has a 66% chance that you don't get ANY armor against his S3 attack. So that 3+ armor save is lost completely against that S3 swing.

Crits are why armor isn't worth initial investment in Mordheim. Anyone can get lucky with a crit and gouge your eyes out through the slits in your impenetrable armor's visor.

The above scenario would have gone even worse for Mr. Dwarf Lord if the Vampire Lord had brought along his 3 Zombie friends that he got for the same cost. But it would have been less bad for Mr. Dwarf Lord if it was him and a beardling vs the Vampire Lord (which you'd have for 135gc if you didn't buy the armor).