Crusader Kings 2 Thread II: Sparkly Vampire Invasion

[Guancyto]

Your sample size is small but your conclusions are accurate because that's exactly what happens.

Educate your child yourself and then fob them off on your courtiers for their bar mitzvah (a few years late but it's to be expected) and you'll rule the world in no time!

[Cristo Meyers]

So playing Crusader Kings 2, I've realized something about the 2.0 patch. Is it just me or are uprisings (specifically successor revolts, rebel attacks, and decadence wars) absolutely terrifying if they happen to someone? I've dealt with three successor revolts and each of them have had around 10k troops when I can muster 7k at most in Mali. (with a ruler at 7/7 demease and 18 Martial) All of them were pretty much game-ending without having to assassinate the successor in question.

Decadence wars seem even worse. I saw the Abbasids, who held the Arabian Empire and Spain, get completely floored by a 180k doomstack of rebels due to the Abbasid ruler's 100% decadence. I was completely terrified when I saw how bad it got.

Yeah they forgot to change the number of event troops with the levy change. So now you can get rebellions in single counties that field more men than entire empires.

No kidding.

...I think I'll wait for that to get fixed before starting up again. Rebellions were irritating enough.

[wiimanclassic]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

[IthilanorStPete]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

All of the above. More seriously speaking, I'd rank them from most to least as follows:
1. The Old Gods. Opens up the pagans + 200 more years of game time.
2. Sword of Islam. There are a lot of Muslims. Decadence is kind of broken* at the moment, but there's a rework coming soon.
3. Legacy of Rome, mainly because retinues are universally applicable and ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't add much in the way of events and decisions, and Orthodox characters are playable without it, but mending the Great Schism and restoring the Roman Empire are pretty cool.
4. The Republic. The merchant republics don't have a lot of variety, and their gameplay is pretty straightforward.
5. Sunset Invasion. Extremely non-serious, ahistorical, and generally ridiculous. It can be fun, but it's easily the least necessary of the DLCs.

*Broken as in non-functional. You give your family lands to stave off decadence buildup, but that will inevitably lead to decadence spiraling out of control and doomstacks of Decadence Revolts getting spawned. The only way to keep decadence under control is abusing the free imprisonment/execution of male family members.

[Driderman]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

The Old Gods is mandatory, everything else is optional

[Starsign]

The Old Gods is mandatory, everything else is optional

I agree with this, though Legacy of Rome is my second choice because Retinues are great (by which I mean broken if you know how to use them ) and very helpful for the more struggling areas (such as Mali)

[Avaris]

Where would people put Sons of Abraham in the DLC pile?

[Flickerdart]

Where would people put Sons of Abraham in the DLC pile?

It's around Legacy of Rome level, possibly even below. Spices up playing Catholics and adds Jews, but doesn't add that much to others. I think it's still discounted right now, though, so there's that.

[IthilanorStPete]

It's around Legacy of Rome level, possibly even below. Spices up playing Catholics and adds Jews, but doesn't add that much to others. I think it's still discounted right now, though, so there's that.

It's not discounted at the moment - hasn't been since it came out.

[Starsign]

I need some advice for CK2. I'm playing as Mali and I've managed to get the North African territories that have Mountain terrain. (so I finally have some sort of defense) However I've come across a problem; I need Marrakech to reform West African Pagan (I'm using the VIET mod, so I need 4 holy sites to reform) but taking it allows Jihads to form, which I'm pretty sure will completely destroy me by 1035.

So my question is, how do I handle Jihads as a pagan? I'd wish I could reform other pagans but I don't know how to do that when they are all over the place. So what alternatives do I have?

[Sanguine]

Well I'm not entirely sure what VIET has done with the West Africans but I'll give you my two cents.

Once you reform the religion you should get a Holy Order, this will be very helpful as Holy Order have no upkeep when you are defending against Infidels. If VIET adds any mercenaries for the region it would be a good idea to wait and save up money for mercs before you take Marrakech. But this is the most important thing, if you can't win it's not the end of the world, you will lose your lands in Mauritania but that's it, Mali will be untouched and you'll have a 30 year grace period before they can call another Jihad, during which time you can build up your nation to the point where you can defend against a Jihad.

[Starsign]

Well I'm not entirely sure what VIET has done with the West Africans but I'll give you my two cents.

Once you reform the religion you should get a Holy Order, this will be very helpful as Holy Order have no upkeep when you are defending against Infidels. If VIET adds any mercenaries for the region it would be a good idea to wait and save up money for mercs before you take Marrakech. But this is the most important thing, if you can't win it's not the end of the world, you will lose your lands in Mauritania but that's it, Mali will be untouched and you'll have a 30 year grace period before they can call another Jihad, during which time you can build up your nation to the point where you can defend against a Jihad.

I'll add some information about West Africa in VIET. First there are new coastal provinces (though the ports don't exactly work yet) and starts out fragmented in most bookmarks. Secondly now there are three mercenaries rather than one. Thirdly certain areas now have an increased tax, so they're more worthwhile to take. Just benefits all around, which is how I've managed to head north in the first place.

That is good advice too, thanks. Considering that I can call Great Holy Wars once Jihads are in place, I think I'll definitely have some land from them that I can have. (such as Andalusia and Portugal) Thanks for the advice. I'm sure I'll take use of it.

Now how can I convert pagans across the map? I'd like to convert the dying Norse, the huge Finnish, the numerous Slavics, the Tengri Golden Horde when they come, and the VIET-added East African Pagans, but I don't know how to do that. (and I don't think that I can do it with my court chaplain) Any advice?

[JeminiZero]

How much time do you have to prepare? If you know that the Muslims are going to launch Jihad by a certain date, then the best way to prepare for it is to:
a) Weaken the Muslims
b) Strengthen yourself.

To this end, if you holy war and expand aggressively, and subjugate most Muslim territories, they will be less able to launch Jihad come 1035.

[Starsign]

How much time do you have to prepare? If you know that the Muslims are going to launch Jihad by a certain date, then the best way to prepare for it is to:
a) Weaken the Muslims
b) Strengthen yourself.

To this end, if you holy war and expand aggressively, and subjugate most Muslim territories, they will be less able to launch Jihad come 1035.

Well they'll get it, at latest, around 1187. Plenty of time, but there are other ways for Jihads to start. (for example, Catholics taking Jerusalem)

As a Defensive Pagan, I have a couple problems with conquering. First of all I use the Conquest CB to gain territories, so that's pretty much one province at a time. Secondly Many of VIET's unique West African traits apply to the culture group of West Africa, not the religion. Since I'm expanding north, I could end up with a ruler/heir that is Berber culture, meaning I lose these features. This includes the succession laws not Gavelkind. (I really don't want to have Seniority) Now it is much easier to reform culture to that of my province, but it's really a toss-up and last 10 years if I can do that before my heir is killed.

BTW, anyone know how to get a lot of Piety? Reforming is more difficult in VIET, I need 4 holy sites, 60% Moral Authority (which I think is easily doable) and 2000 piety. Anyone know how in the world I'm gonna get that much?

[Sanguine]

Well based on my own experience with Reformed Norse you can't send your priest to convert other pagans like a christian can, which is annoying. But you do still have two options.

The first is holy war: A non-zealous pagan*, or Zoroastrian, who is being holy warred has the option to convert to his attackers religion. They don't always do it, but sometimes they do. Unfortunately due to the West Africans being so isolated this probably won't be viable for quite some time.

The second is marriage: An unreformed pagan with a wife or concubine of a different religion can convert to said religion by event. Now in vanilla this doesn't allow you to convert to a different kind of paganism, but I believe VIET changed that. Even if it doesn't though marriage is still a viable option. You simply use strategic marriages and assassination to ensure that a member of your religion inherits the realm. Also there is always the off chance the the foreign rulers will let the West Africans you marry into their courts educate their children, though you can't control this.

As for piety. Fighting heretic and infidels is always a good way to rack some up. Also if your priest converts a province that will get you a little, but it has to be your priest or you don't get it. Other then that there is just having the right traits and picking the right options for events, plus anything VIET might have added for the West African religion.

Edit: Also Temples! Temple vassals give you piety. Build up your temples and you get even more.


*They might have to be unreformed for regular holy wars, but I know at least with Crusades reformed pagans will sometimes convert.

[JeminiZero]

So reading around, it seems that legitimizing a bastard child only occurs during a specific event.

Does anybody know what causes/encourages it to trigger?

[IthilanorStPete]

So reading around, it seems that legitimizing a bastard child only occurs during a specific event.

Does anybody know what causes/encourages it to trigger?

If you have a bastard child, legitimizing them should be available as a decision in the Intrigue panel. According to ckiiwiki, the only requirements are being the liege or above of your bastard and 20 piety.

[Artanis]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world

I somehow eked out a win due to some ridiculously good generals and the AI's tendency to split up and start assaulting everything, but it still cost me half my military.

[Grif]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world

I somehow eked out a win due to some ridiculously good generals and the AI's tendency to split up and start assaulting everything, but it still cost me half my military.

Ew. Does that mean the game is broken (again) for the time being?

[Flickerdart]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world

Maybe there were a lot of repressed peasants and landless hopefuls sitting around at the time?

[Narkis]

Ew. Does that mean the game is broken (again) for the time being?

Indeed it is. Woe betide you should a rebel faction get reinforced by event.

[Flickerdart]

To be fair, this is a pretty good anti-blobbing measure that makes it harder for the player to win everything forever and can break up AI blobs. It's just frustrating.

[pffh]

And with the levy change republics are back as overpowered since mercenaries and retinues are just as strong as before.

[Starsign]

And with the levy change republics are back as overpowered since mercenaries and retinues are just as strong as before.

Well to be fair, mercenaries generally become underpowered later on in CK2 back in 1.111 due to the amount of troops you get. I find that they become more valuable in 2.0 because they make a bigger difference.

And retinues were always unbalanced. Money should never be a factor in the upkeep for them. Being able to raid with them is hilariously wonderful.

[Artanis]

Well to be fair, mercenaries generally become underpowered later on in CK2 back in 1.111 due to the amount of troops you get. I find that they become more valuable in 2.0 because they make a bigger difference.

And retinues were always unbalanced. Money should never be a factor in the upkeep for them. Being able to raid with them is hilariously wonderful.

My favorite retinue trick was to tell them to move into an enemy's territory, then declare war the day before they arrive

[JeminiZero]

If you have a bastard child, legitimizing them should be available as a decision in the Intrigue panel. According to ckiiwiki, the only requirements are being the liege or above of your bastard and 20 piety.

Can't seem to find it there though... maybe it is blocked by one of my ruler's traits?

[VonFenris]

You can either legitimize a bastard at birth or later by event if you've acknowledged him, as far as I knwo there's no way back from denouncing the child.

[Talderas]

All of the above. More seriously speaking, I'd rank them from most to least as follows:
1. The Old Gods. Opens up the pagans + 200 more years of game time.
2. Sword of Islam. There are a lot of Muslims. Decadence is kind of broken* at the moment, but there's a rework coming soon.
3. Legacy of Rome, mainly because retinues are universally applicable and ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't add much in the way of events and decisions, and Orthodox characters are playable without it, but mending the Great Schism and restoring the Roman Empire are pretty cool.
4. The Republic. The merchant republics don't have a lot of variety, and their gameplay is pretty straightforward.
5. Sunset Invasion. Extremely non-serious, ahistorical, and generally ridiculous. It can be fun, but it's easily the least necessary of the DLCs.

How I would rate them....

1. The Old Gods - Opens up the Pagans for play extends the time that you can play by going forward. Buck for buck, Old Gods provides the single largest boost to the game.
2a. Legacy of Rome - Retinues.
2b. Sword of Islam - Opens up the Muslims for play, decadence helps keep the AI Muslims in check.
3. Sword of Abraham - Significantly expands play for Catholic nations. Enables Judaism.
4. Republic - Opens up Republics for play.
5. Sunset Invasion - Provides the Aztec invasion in the west to provide a challenge similar to what the Mongols provide in the east.

--

My favorite retinue trick was to tell them to move into an enemy's territory, then declare war the day before they arrive

That's a trick to make mercenaries more useful in later game. Hire them in preparation for the declaration of war and order them into the opponent's territory. Declare war sometime after they've started for the province. It doesn't need to be the day before, it just needs to sometime after the start but before the arrive. This lets the mercs act as a force that prevents the AI from raising levies in that province because the merc stack is likely larger than what the AI could raise in the province and even if it's smaller, the moral of the AI is going to be so low the mercs should be able to trounce a larger force. That reduces the overall stack the AI gets and your retinue stack may or may not be large enough to eradicate anything else the AI could muster.

[Artanis]

That's a trick to make mercenaries more useful in later game. Hire them in preparation for the declaration of war and order them into the opponent's territory. Declare war sometime after they've started for the province. It doesn't need to be the day before, it just needs to sometime after the start but before the arrive. This lets the mercs act as a force that prevents the AI from raising levies in that province because the merc stack is likely larger than what the AI could raise in the province and even if it's smaller, the moral of the AI is going to be so low the mercs should be able to trounce a larger force. That reduces the overall stack the AI gets and your retinue stack may or may not be large enough to eradicate anything else the AI could muster.

Huh. I always figured that Mercenaries counted as levies when it came to being allowed to declare war, so I never thought to try that.

[Talderas]

Huh. I always figured that Mercenaries counted as levies when it came to being allowed to declare war, so I never thought to try that.

Only raised levies prevent you from declaring war. You used to be able to declare war with mercenaries in provinces you didn't own.