How do dragons move their hoard?

[Cikomyr]

Has is ever been explained how a dragon who wants to change his lair's location can move his hoard? I mean.. if you think about it, there's usually quite a number of hard currency, gems and fragile treasures involved, and while I have no difficulty believing a dragon is quite agile, there's no way he would not drop a few if he tries to transport a thousand gold pieces in his claws.

Plus, he'd need to make multiple journeys.

Do dragons also happen to have hidden stocks of burlap sacks?

[EmeraldRose]

That's why I keep lots of human and demi-human slaves. Having them move my stuff is much easier on my back.

[Zaydos]

The three big dragon hoards that pop to my mind in media are Fafnir, the firedrake of Beowulf, and Smaug.

Of these three only Fafnir ever moved his hoard, the other two found it and laired there. Fafnir was a human originally, whose miserly greed transformed him into a dragon after which he did not move his hoard. So the answer is typically that they don't.

Looking at Fafnir, and Smaug, my guess is that if they wanted to move it, they'd carry much of it in their mouths like crocodiles moving their young, more embedded in their chest, and a few select large pieces in their claws and it would take many, many trips.

[Axiomatic]

Why would give you move the Hoard? You deposit your hoard with a banker, who issues you a piece of paper that says "Vermithrax owns 13x10^9 GP in assorted jewelry, magic items, and gold coins."

Then you fly off to your new lair, and find ANOTHER banker, and he deposits the same amount of loot in your new place of choice, minus a small transaction fee.

[Cikomyr]

Why would give you move the Hoard? You deposit your hoard with a banker, who issues you a piece of paper that says "Vermithrax owns 13x10^9 GP in assorted jewelry, magic items, and gold coins."

Then you fly off to your new lair, and find ANOTHER banker, and he deposits the same amount of loot in your new place of choice, minus a small transaction fee.

Now I need to have an organization named "The Dragon Bank" in one of my fantasy world

[JDMSJR]

Now I need to have an organization named "The Dragon Bank" in one of my fantasy world

I can just see it...the hero of your fantasy world busts into the dragon's lair to find him laying on a pile of bank statements

[Cikomyr]

I can just see it...the hero of your fantasy world busts into the dragon's lair to find him laying on a pile of bank statements

"Let's get out to fight, or we'll burn the notes!"
"Why do you want to fight me? The treasures? You need to have me backsign those to cash them, plus I need to present myself with my Draconic ID"

[Forum Explorer]

Eat it and then vomit it all up at the location of their choice.

[Mando Knight]

Alternatively, some dragons start using magic. Some Bags of Holding and a Teleport will move quite a lot of gold. Especially given older dragons' carrying capacity.

(Depending on the kind of dragon, of course)

[TheThan]

A dragon’s lair is not just a place to rest his head, it’s his home. A dragon’s home is his cave, to but a spin on an old saying. He’s going to spend a lot of time and resources making it as secure as possible, but still leave a bolt hole (he can always bushwhack the adventurer’s when they leave the lair). So a proper dragon’s lair will have the following characteristics:

• Disguised locations, making them hard to detect
• Hard to get to entrances /exits
• Defended with death traps, minions, time wasters (mazes, puzzles, riddles etc),
• Locked and barred exits
• Security alarms, such as guards and wards and other spells/ tricks
• Choke points and other such terrain features that allow for the dragon to fight on HIS terms
• a secure (and hard to get to) vault where his treasure is safe from fire damage and adventurers/thieves
• A lookout point so the dragon/ his minions can detect approaching food/prey/enemies (sorta all the same thing to a dragon).

So yeah, going into a dragon’s lair uninvited should be REALLY dangerous. A dragon should be the most dangerous foe a group of adventurer’s face. They ought to be take-able, but it should NEVER be easy, take a lot of preparation, and generally should be a high risk/high reward scenario. a dragon’s not going to give up his hoard without a fight (after all it took centuries to acquire all that loot, would you just hand it over to the first punk that came along with a sword? I think not!).

So when you think about it, it ought to be a very rare occurrence for a dragon to relocate, even unwillingly. So what’s driving that dragon out of his lair? He chose that spot for good reasons, he’s not going to abandon it on a whim (regardless of how chaotic a dragon happens to be). So whatever it is that’s making him want to relocate and place his treasure (the most valuable thing he has next to his life) at risk, is probably not a good thing. In fact, it might make for a good adventure for higher level characters; particularly those that have already dealt with a dragon before.

[cobaltstarfire]

I've really thought about it, but my initial thought is that they're probably consume whatever they couldn't easily transport and start building a new one from scratch in their new location.

The mental image of a dragon on a mound of bank related papers is quite amusing though..

[Traab]

They murder a herd of cows, then enslave a nearby town and make them turn it into a gigantic bag which he then gets enchanted to hold ludicrous weight. At which point he starts hauling loot.

In all seriousness, they dont. They dont move. If they are strong enough to HAVE a hoard that would be hard to transport, there is very very little in the world that can make them move. As someone mentioned smaug I will use him. He came in there 100 years ago and wiped out an entire nation of dwarves on their home turf and took all their loot for his own. It took a deus ex machina to kill him 100 years later. Without that bald patch on his chest, he could have soloed the battle of 7 armies. Thats how unbelievably deadly these guys are.

So yeah, in conclusion, if he is strong enough to have a hoard larger than he can easily carry, he is so strong he doesnt have to move. Even in D&D terms the dragons with the big hoards are so powerful, there probably arent more than a handful of people COUNTING YOUR PARTY that are high level enough to threaten him, and most of the others wouldnt care to risk their lives when there are easier ways to get treasure.

[Thrawn183]

Now I need to have an organization named "The Dragon Bank" in one of my fantasy world

When I DM, dragons are the bankers. How do you think they get so rich?

[Grinner]

Why would give you move the Hoard? You deposit your hoard with a banker, who issues you a piece of paper that says "Vermithrax owns 13x10^9 GP in assorted jewelry, magic items, and gold coins."

Then you fly off to your new lair, and find ANOTHER banker, and he deposits the same amount of loot in your new place of choice, minus a small transaction fee.

Clever as this is (I might have to steal this), you are suggesting that a dragon would willing part with even a fraction of his hoard. This assertion stands in stark contrast with the exercise in mammonism that is draconic psychology.

[EmeraldRose]

Like I said earlier, other than admitting to having servants to help, I am loathe to say more on the subject of how I move my hoard. You realize this is akin to me asking you how much you make in your paycheck?

[Zaydos]

When I've had a dragon move a hoard in a D&D setting it involved teleportation and bags of hoarding. He did not even let his servants touch it. That would require trusting them with his hoard.

[nightwyrm]

Clever as this is (I might have to steal this), you are suggesting that a dragon would willing part with even a fraction of his hoard. This assertion stands in stark contrast with the exercise in mammonism that is draconic psychology.

But it's earning interest for him while at the bank.

He's not parting with it, he's investing it. lol.

I wonder what dragons do to combat inflation.

[Math_Mage]

When I've had a dragon move a hoard in a D&D setting it involved teleportation and bags of hoarding. He did not even let his servants touch it. That would require trusting them with his hoard.

It's like a Bag of Holding, but dragon scale.

[Mando Knight]

I wonder what dragons do to combat inflation.

The Goldfinger route: what you can't sequester, you destroy.

(Inflation isn't much of a problem with pure metal coinage, actually, since even alchemists and the like creating gold from nothing are generally likely to be strictly small-time)

[nightwyrm]

The Goldfinger route: what you can't sequester, you destroy.

(Inflation isn't much of a problem with pure metal coinage, actually, since even alchemists and the like creating gold from nothing are generally likely to be strictly small-time)

They'll be pissed when paper money gets invented.

Dragons are the original goldbugs.

[Mando Knight]

They'll be pissed when paper money gets invented.

Dragons are the original goldbugs.

What kind of dragon hoards paper money anyway? When you're a dragon, you can outlive empires of those little pink-skins. The paper you hoard when they switch to fiat currency will be worthless if you decide to cash in when they're on the verge of collapse, but the gold will be valuable long after their towers and fortifications have crumbled to dust.

...Assuming that they don't back their currency with a portal to a solid gold planet in a money-verse. Or develop large-scale gold creation/transmutation industries.

[Cikomyr]

What kind of dragon hoards paper money anyway? When you're a dragon, you can outlive empires of those little pink-skins. The paper you hoard when they switch to fiat currency will be worthless if you decide to cash in when they're on the verge of collapse, but the gold will be valuable long after their towers and fortifications have crumbled to dust.

...Assuming that they don't back their currency with a portal to a solid gold planet in a money-verse. Or develop large-scale gold creation/transmutation industries.

So the dragons are effectively the Central Banks?!?!

[Closet_Skeleton]

Fafnir was a human originally, whose miserly greed transformed him into a dragon after which he did not move his hoard.

Fafnier was a dwarf, not a human and is transformed thanks to a curse on his gold. In the 19th century Wagner version he's a giant (combined with the separate ice giants who build Asgard in norse mythology) and becomes a dragon using the shape-shifting powers of the Tarnhelm.

In the British children's series, Noggin the Nog, the horde of the ice dragon Groliffe is the treasury of the Dragon's Friendly Society. If any of the gold is removed, it is enchanted to allow dragons to track it down and take revenge. So there's a dragon 'banking' for other dragons.

[Creed]

Well, first, there's the cumbersome task of converting your hoard into large, non-consecutive gold coins. Magic items, pieces of art, potions, and assorted furniture make for great treasure density and sprawl, but whenever you move it's a good idea to liquidate all those assets into the currency of the country you're moving to. You never know whose family heirloom or lich's phylactery you've got sitting around, you're better off cycling all that out into currency.

Next is moving the treasure. I know what you're thinking, the volume of all that gold? Very difficult to move. I say no. You see, when you sold all your magic items, you held on to all your bags on holding, which you just load up with gold, then fly to your destination.

[Kato]

Like I said earlier, other than admitting to having servants to help, I am loathe to say more on the subject of how I move my hoard. You realize this is akin to me asking you how much you make in your paycheck?

Wouldn't it be more be akin to asking a woman their shoe size or on hygiene matters?


On topic... human slaves (or maybe adventurers) seems to be the most reasonable assumption for such who are unable to use magic. Or find a magic user and make him an offer s/he can't refuse. (Teleportation and bags of holding seem a reasonable idea)

[Mando Knight]

Well, first, there's the cumbersome task of converting your hoard into large, non-consecutive gold coins. Magic items, pieces of art, potions, and assorted furniture make for great treasure density and sprawl, but whenever you move it's a good idea to liquidate all those assets into the currency of the country you're moving to. You never know whose family heirloom or lich's phylactery you've got sitting around, you're better off cycling all that out into currency.

I disagree. Magic items can be worth thousands of gold coins depending on their rarity, so your hoard fits in the bags better if you have a couple holy swords or unbreakable shields in the mix.

As for artwork, if it's in your hoard, it's one-of-a-kind! What are you doing selling that kind of treasure off? ...That, or it's worthless, and you've been keeping it around as a reminder of the problems with youthful indiscretion.

[Cyrion]

Dragons are the ultimate ego-maniacs. They more their hoards the same way they change light bulbs: hold on tight and let their new lair move to them.

[Coidzor]

A dragon that was acting as a bank would not have a typical hoard to begin with, no?

Nor would a dragon typically need to move its entire hoard anyway for most transactions if it were to act as a bank.

[Giggling Ghast]

With great difficulty.

[Axiomatic]

Draconic bankers make a lot of sense, until you consider that at some point, your clients might wish to withdraw their money.