Turf War - GAME ENDED

[Zjoot]

Ok, I'm going to go around the ever growing wall of text and just post my thoughts now. I apologize for redundancies.

First ( and again, sorry if somebody already mentioned this) you can edit new information into your posts, Doctor Whooves. So you don't need to continually double post.

Second, you seem to admit that your playstyle is completely based around confirmation bias. Do you not see any problem with this? I do. Namely it is unlikely to produce results. For someone who claims to be very good at this game, it is also odd that you've made a rather beginner-ish mistake in simply latching on to someone who voted for you and not letting go without regard to strategy. It is very unlikely for wolves to be found on day one. This may not be in keeping with your experiences, but it is a symptom of the more casual and easy-going playstyle, as well as the smaller number of wolves. That being the case, day one is a good time for pressuring multiple targets. You will start to see patterns emerging in the bandwagons and you can see how people react to some prodding. This is what Murska (and others) were trying to get stared before you came in and derailed the day, creating a considerable smokescreen for potential wolves to hide behind.

This being said, there is almost no way that Whooves is a wolf. Unless we are assuming he is playing very poorly and it is never a good idea in my experience to assume your opponents are playing poorly. The one goal of the wolves is to survive and not be found and his play today is directly against that goal.

For now, I'm going to switch my vote to The Fiery Tower. It's possible that he was voting for an intentionally bad reason, just because it's low stakes day one and it's kind of amusing, but I feel like this doesn't match the TFT I've seen as a villager (that is, very astute and a good logician)

[Disc Lorde]

Guys, do you think that Recaiden has done anything suspicious? I don't. If you're thinking it's a point against DoctorWhooves if he/she turns out town, it's not. Just means he/she made a mistake.

I know The Fiery Tower was being sarcastic, but that still makes it a no-reason vote on someone he/she knew was contributing to the discussion. Seems suspicious to me.

Also it could be that the wolves are trying to divert the wagon against Recaiden if he's one of them. So, point at Recaiden.

This applies just as well to The Fiery Tower.

[52.5 Lemons]

I don't actually like the FC bandwagon particularly, but being the accountant is pretty easy to test. I'd prefer we get another person like FT up in the votes. I'll check back in before day ends, but for now Fleeting Coward.

This. I know Legato already made some comments on this post but I want to reemphasize the major issue here. It's something that Zjoot has mentioned as well in other contexts. Meta starts out by saying he doesn't like the FC bandwagon without giving any reason why (meh, whatever) but then goes on to say that he won't vote for Whooves because of the claim (understandable) and so he votes for FC anyways (contradictory). If there is one thing I find to be suspicious, it's when players start to argue with themselves. Considering that it is day one and we usually just have a lot of randomness, why not just make a random point, or a point at someone you actually find suspicious?

I'm going to take back my vote on Whooves for several reasons:
1. He's new to the forum (didn't originally realize that) and I intend to uphold the new player pardon tradition.
2. He has provided some sound reasoning and has at least gotten more discussion out of day one than I've ever seen which is good.
3. I find nothing about his actions suspicious to begin with. My initial vote was of course sort of random and silly.
EDIT: 4. and also his claim.
EDIT2: 5. And I feel he may have gotten off the wrong foot. That's partly why we don't typically lynch players new to the forum early on because we want them to get accustomed to our style and culture.

I suppose I will throw my vote onto Meta for now because of reasons above and because FC is a valuable player and I don't find his posts suspicious at the moment.

This is turning into more walls of text.... deja vu.

[Skippy]

I don't believe Whooves is a bad guy, yet. I'd vote for him just to stop the multiposting but I understand there are other forums where editing your posts isn't allowed so, there's that.

That was my two cents

((That's ONE... TWO... TWO CENTS!))

[Zjoot]

Alright, in my catchup readthrough Zar Peter and the Meta post that Legato pointed out both have the same tell (which nabbed us a wolf on day one of Fears) of criticising a bandwagon while joining it.

Meta also falls into the demand tell, that is, quickly correcting/explaining a wolfish behaviour as soon as called on it.

Finger of Suspicion on both of them, though I don't believe this puts them above TFT. To reiterate, playing randomly on day one is different than playing destructively. Pointing at someone with the stated reason that they're trying to stir up discussion is anti-town.

EDIT: to address some points here:

I checked again Disc Lorde. Unless the post is outright invisible to me for some reason, Recaiden did nothing until after Whooves claimed he's valuable.

A couple other thoughts occur to me, but after this I'm going to fall silent for a while and think things through some more.

Firstly, if Whooves is a wolf, his claim of accountant makes sense, in the short term at least. A claim of being someone that can be confirmed means people are more likely to turn away from him for the time being, as compared to a role that is much harder to confirm. And since the accountant isn't valued as highly, if we get in a scenario where his potential two votes doesn't swing things (and the wolves could pretty easily set this up), we can't confirm things one way or the other and the threads of the argument are already there for his survival if the wolves don't off him.

Secondly, claims that he's encouraging discussion and this is beneficial to villagers confuse me. I am new to this and I may well be missing something here, but this is very counter intuitive to me. Anyone can encourage discussion. And if they try and lead the group in the wrong direction and cause townfolk to get lynched, then all they've done by encouraging discussion is help the wolves to win. This argument seems...very weak to me, I really don't get it.

Finally, yes, I'm aware that as Whooves' arguments only work if one assumes he is a townie, mine are based on the initial assumption that he's a wolf and he's trying to mislead us.

Obviously, from my perspective I feel like his actions make more sense if he's a wolf. He's deliberately claimed a role immediately likely to redirect people since it's easily confirmable, and also a role for which the argument exists as to why he might survive the night. It seems like a very logical choice to me, and I maintain that there really isn't much reason to lynch Recaiden.

I'll check back in a while and see if I'm given reason to change my vote.

The main goal of a skilled wolf is to avoid being lynched. Ever. Secondary is finding the seer and the baner. Whooves's behaviour is counteractive to that. When he claimed, we hadn't yet reached the point where he was in serious unavoidable danger of being lynched. He and the wolves could have easily directed wagons elsewhere without drawing undue attention. Claiming a power role when not at risk is also unusual for a wolf, since it will be revealed sooner or later that you were lying and you will be lynched. It can be a way to get a seer kill out of an already inevitable wolf lynch, but that is obviously not the case here. Otherwise he would've claimed seer. That one's easily deniable as well because the fool is still around.

Leading discussion is also generally counteractive to wolves in this meta. One, the players leading discussion are more at risk, and two, it is almost impossible to control it. Once you get it started, others will keep it going and a high level of discussion will eventually lead back around to hit the wolves. Either it makes their lo-laying behaviour more suspicious, or it brings to light some other mistake.

[Murska]

As a side-note, someone pushing a lynch that ends up hitting a Town player is in fact a point against them. It's not strong evidence, but it is evidence. On the other hand, someone pushing a lynch that hits Scum is good evidence (but not extremely strong) that they are Town.

Yes, FoS on Meta on my part as well.

[TFT]

Yea, I apologize about my vote, it was rather half-assed. I honestly figured this would be a normal GITP day 1 where it's less active discussion and more jokes and random points, and I didn't actually check the number of votes people had when I placed my vote. So I'll treat this like a regular mafia day 1 and not just a GITP one.

I honestly don't think Whooves is a wolf, he's trying to generate discussion which is rather pro town, and he's brought a lot of good (If misguided) points about wolves. So get on his case about things like poor target choices or off logic, but not about the fact that he's posting frequently.

That said, I think a lot of Whooves' normal ways of finding wolves, while they would work in a lot of situations, aren't going to work on this forum, and that we shouldn't be following some of his ideas until people started realizing his playstyle and adjusted. I play WW on other forums, and I would never make a post like that, wolf or not, because on those forums day 1 matters. On this forum, day 1 doesn't, and I'd really like that post individually to not be held against me.

EDIT: Please ignore the first part of this paragraph, I misremembered while I was posting. Check my post 3 posts down for the correction.

However, meta calling whooves attempting to generate discussion antitown in particular bothered me, so I'm going to switch to him. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate by acting fairly protown. Now if you excuse me I'm going to take a nap because I've been doing schoolwork stuff for the last 36ish hours and I've only gotten an average of 4 hours of sleep for the past 4 nights. I'll try to get some reads after.

[Zjoot]

Alright, that explanation will suffice for now. I'd rather not lynch TFT too soon. I know he's a serious asset to the village when he gets going.

Though I'd rather lynch Zar than Meta. Both have made the same tell, but this is only Meta's second game on this forum and in his first he was also very vocal and generally a good player to have around.

I don't know if enough people will switch in time, but I'll vote for Zar. Yes I risk wasting my vote, but I think I'm alright with that at this point.

[Meta]

Alright, that explanation will suffice for now. I'd rather not lynch TFT too soon. I know he's a serious asset to the village when he gets going.

Though I'd rather lynch Zar than Meta. Both have made the same tell, but this is only Meta's second game on this forum and in his first he was also very vocal and generally a good player to have around.

I don't know if enough people will switch in time, but I'll vote for Zar. Yes I risk wasting my vote, but I think I'm alright with that at this point.

I actually am more suspicious of TFT now. Perhaps I'm misreading what he said, but I don't believe I once called Whooves discussion anti-town. If it came across that way, I apologize for being unclear, but one of my major reasons for evening the bandwagons on FC and Whooves was that I believed Whooves to be town, and I know him outside of the game.

I consider his skills and value to be above my own, and I don't think he would pull such an easily called role-bluff on day 1. Once I was convinced, the temporary vote to even he and FC (hoping I could stop the landslide of popular opinion that his... directness spawned) seemed like a good decision. I'd gladly take some suspicion to keep him in the game.

[TFT]

I'm really sorry meta, you're right. I had remembered reading someone who had a post that was antitown enough to post and I was going to do it after I took my nap (By the way guys: Sleep is amazing. Just so you know.)

It was Gnrlshrimp.

DoctorWhooves

Sorry Doctor, but you've already got everyone running in circles, trying to redirect blame at other people. It almost seems like you've made such a bold statement to bait people into targeting you so you can use some rather flimsy reasoning to turn suspicion back onto them.

Either you're a wolf, or you're more trouble than you're worth as a streetman.

That's a rather antitown statement, and it's either faulty reasoning or a wolf trying to use poor logic, but it's still something to call out. I haven't really gotten any other leads to note at the moment.

[Meta]

I'm really sorry meta, you're right. I had remembered reading someone who had a post that was antitown enough to post and I was going to do it after I took my nap (By the way guys: Sleep is amazing. Just so you know.)

It was Gnrlshrimp.

Understood. I'm a bit more satisfied with your reasoning then. Gnrl was pretty vehement in his/her denouncing of Whooves' methods. I'm not changing my vote until a a few more people have time to weigh your input, as I'd like to see their opinions as well (plus I think your suspicion has merit and I don't want to set it off on the wrong foot by looking like I'm grasping at straws to redirect my own fingers of suspicion if you do turn out to be a wolf.)

I believe day ends in ~19 hours from this post, so plenty of time for me to re-evaluate after sleep and work.

[EmeraldRose]

((Found it! ))

A tall man dressed in a black suit walked down the street with a purpose. He completely ignored everyone around him as he walked towards his target. He had traveled through many strange worlds on his mission but this one had to take the cake. He tried not to dwell on it too much as he scanned the street.

He checked the watch on his left hand. It was a strange device with several hands and three sets of symbols set in a circular pattern around the rim. Some of the hands seemed completely stationary whilst others moved apparently at random, jumping from one symbol to another. The man could make sense of it however, as he realized he had arrived a few days too early.

It seemed he had to find a way to kill some time. He saw the strange shop that didn't quite seem to fit with the rest of the street and felt drawn to it for some reason. As he approached it he saw the books inside and his curiosity peaked. He opened the door and walked towards the counter.

"Excuse me miss, is this some kind of bookstore?"

The Lady looks up from her book when the bell above the door chimes.

This is, indeed, a book store. It is also a place where people and other entities come for warmth, respite, and coffee. It is expected.

The Lady gestures to the many stacks of books and to the coffee service.

Please, help yourself.

[Gnrlshrimp]

Is it particularly antitown to question the actions of someone so quick to point the finger?

Considering Doctor Whooves said he was casting the net wide to see what he caught and has then claimed that Recaiden is a wolf for little more reason than him being the first to bite, if he really is a townie, then he'd have us jumping at shadows any time anyone says anything that can even remotely be interpreted as anti-town.

Something that you're now doing too, Fiery Tower, by pointing at me.

Honestly I'm surprised I haven't received more flak for hounding after Whooves so much. By Whooves' own logic, it'd make sense for a wolf to try and help gain traction against someone already kind of in line for lynching.

So I'm a little perplexed as to why you'd accuse me for something seeming antitown instead of my actions against Whooves.

Zjoot, you make a pretty solid argument, though one thing I'd point out is that Whooves is someone used to a different environment seemingly with a different, less passive playstyle. And if everyone played things safe every time then, well, I imagine it'd get a little boring. I am looking at all this from the perspective of someone new to it all, but it seems almost like a wolf could hide in plain sight by doing something unusual if the majority of players are too used to the meta and dismiss anything that doesn't fit.

[Murska]

I'm against lynching Whooves for the simple reason that I believe that even though I do not know whether he is Town or Scum at this point, his actions so far are pro-Town. He can't mislead us if we don't allow ourselves to be misled, and if he brings up good points then they're good points whether or not he's on our side. Of course it isn't that clear cut, people can twist the facts if they have extra information to work with, but I feel confident in our ability to detect that sort of tampering with a large enough sample, and meanwhile, he seems useful until proven otherwise.

[Disc Lorde]

I'm keeping my vote. My suspicions have grown, if anything, the more I think about it.

I mean, he jumped on a bandwagon for a flimsy reason. That's wolf behavior right there.

He claimed it was a joke, but another veteran claimed it's not his style to joke as town. (As a side note, I don't think it was very funny.)

Alright, that explanation will suffice for now. I'd rather not lynch TFT too soon. I know he's a serious asset to the village when he gets going.

What part of that explanation sufficed to take suspicion off him? He basically said "oops, my bad" when called on wolfish actions, which is a common wolf response. I used it in the last mafia game I played.

If he's town, it's a tragedy, but he seems suspicious. I guess in the future he'll know better than to make such a poor vote without explanation.

I checked again Disc Lorde. Unless the post is outright invisible to me for some reason, Recaiden did nothing until after Whooves claimed he's valuable.

DoctorWhooves pointed at Recaiden about 3/4ths down page 7. The post that drew his suspicion was exactly 3 above that.

Firstly, if Whooves is a wolf, his claim of accountant makes sense, in the short term at least.

No it doesn't. He'd be counter-claimed and get a 1 to 1 wolf-to-villager trade at best, which is bad. This has been pointed out before.

[BitterMelonFarm]

Well I'm just going to pick the perseon with my favorite name. Count Dingdong I'm sorry

[Disc Lorde]

Btw, Zjoot, you forgot to cross out your previous vote.

[DoctorWhooves]

This will be a big post. At the end of it I will try and do a TL;DR. Also putting it in spoilers.

First, a forethought: I want to apologize if I've come off as snooty or elitist, brash or overly ambitious. I'm used to an eclectic array of personalities within my mafia games and mine wouldn't even tip the scale as far as arrogance goes. I want to demonstrate I have a respect for the culture and playerbase you've built, while at the same time bring to the table unique ideas or approaches I think would be beneficial to us as a town in our hunt. If you think I've stepped over the line, question me, and keep me humble, but try and understand the merit my ideas may possess, even if they may not be traditional.

Onto the game:

Spoiler

Show

Murska, as I'm told he's pretty consistently evil.

As an update to the Count's post, the following people haven't voted today as far as I can tell:

C'nor, Penguinator, Yumori123, EmeraldRose, Diva De, bladescape, BitterMelonFarm, Gray Mage, DarkLightDragon.

First person to respond to my inquisition regarding who they would lynch tomorrow if I flipped town. And the only one, I think. Anyway, his answer is basically "I have no idea, but probably this guy because he tends to be a wolf." That's a fair answer. He also provided a list of inactives. This is a good post to remember for the future. If he turns out to be a wolf, it's unlikely that many of these names are as well, since why would he draw attention to his fellow wolves? It's also improves his standings as Town in my eyes for the moment.

Secondly, claims that he's encouraging discussion and this is beneficial to villagers confuse me. I am new to this and I may well be missing something here, but this is very counter intuitive to me. Anyone can encourage discussion. And if they try and lead the group in the wrong direction and cause townfolk to get lynched, then all they've done by encouraging discussion is help the wolves to win. This argument seems...very weak to me, I really don't get it.

Finally, yes, I'm aware that as Whooves' arguments only work if one assumes he is a townie, mine are based on the initial assumption that he's a wolf and he's trying to mislead us.

To use a dramatic example, what would happen if people could only post votes, and no discussion was allowed beyond that? The winrate for wolves would rise dramatically. By encouraging discussion, I do two things: 1) I am forced to interact, giving people a chance to catch me in a lie, follow my train of thought which would be clearly available ideally, and see my perspective and reasoning behind my votes. And 2) I force others to do the same. For every post I make that contains a lie or a forced persona, my chances of slipping rise. Unless I'm very good, I will inevitably slip up. For this reason, creating discussion is almost always beneficial, no matter what the subject.

In addition, your argument is akin to my own, except your target is different. I am convinced Reccy is a wolf, you are convinced I am a wolf. Do you see how we're starting similarly? However, I am looking for evidence that contradicts my view actively, while you are passively sitting on your voting hoping someone else will convince you otherwise.

Second, you seem to admit that your playstyle is completely based around confirmation bias. Do you not see any problem with this? I do. Namely it is unlikely to produce results. For someone who claims to be very good at this game, it is also odd that you've made a rather beginner-ish mistake in simply latching on to someone who voted for you and not letting go without regard to strategy. It is very unlikely for wolves to be found on day one. This may not be in keeping with your experiences, but it is a symptom of the more casual and easy-going playstyle, as well as the smaller number of wolves. That being the case, day one is a good time for pressuring multiple targets. You will start to see patterns emerging in the bandwagons and you can see how people react to some prodding. This is what Murska (and others) were trying to get stared before you came in and derailed the day, creating a considerable smokescreen for potential wolves to hide behind.

I don't think that's the case at all, I'm afraid. Confirmation bias will only be an issue if I ignore conflicting evidence. As of yet there is none. I'm practicing a very Socratic style of mafia at the moment, and as soon as I find evidence that casts either 1) reasonable doubt on Reccy or 2) unreasonable suspicion on someone else my vote will swing wildly and nearly impromptu. I'm famous for last-minute swings on lynches completely altering the outcome of the day elsewhere, though that may not be as viable here with the more easygoing player-base. That being said I appreciate your concerns and they cast you in a positive light.

Alright, in my catchup readthrough Zar Peter and the Meta post that Legato pointed out both have the same tell (which nabbed us a wolf on day one of Fears) of criticising a bandwagon while joining it.

Meta also falls into the demand tell, that is, quickly correcting/explaining a wolfish behaviour as soon as called on it.

Finger of Suspicion on both of them, though I don't believe this puts them above TFT. To reiterate, playing randomly on day one is different than playing destructively. Pointing at someone with the stated reason that they're trying to stir up discussion is anti-town.

At the moment I am not of the opinion that anything Meta did is suspicious. If he's a wolf, why intercede in my benefit when I appeared an easy day 1 lynch?

Yea, I apologize about my vote, it was rather half-assed. I honestly figured this would be a normal GITP day 1 where it's less active discussion and more jokes and random points, and I didn't actually check the number of votes people had when I placed my vote. So I'll treat this like a regular mafia day 1 and not just a GITP one.

I honestly don't think Whooves is a wolf, he's trying to generate discussion which is rather pro town, and he's brought a lot of good (If misguided) points about wolves. So get on his case about things like poor target choices or off logic, but not about the fact that he's posting frequently.

That said, I think a lot of Whooves' normal ways of finding wolves, while they would work in a lot of situations, aren't going to work on this forum, and that we shouldn't be following some of his ideas until people started realizing his playstyle and adjusted. I play WW on other forums, and I would never make a post like that, wolf or not, because on those forums day 1 matters. On this forum, day 1 doesn't, and I'd really like that post individually to not be held against me.

You see? Context. Utterly important. The man is used to the atmosphere of day 1s here lacking seriousness, so it was a joke vote afterall. Fiery is off my short list for the time.

I actually am more suspicious of TFT now. Perhaps I'm misreading what he said, but I don't believe I once called Whooves discussion anti-town. If it came across that way, I apologize for being unclear, but one of my major reasons for evening the bandwagons on FC and Whooves was that I believed Whooves to be town, and I know him outside of the game.

I consider his skills and value to be above my own, and I don't think he would pull such an easily called role-bluff on day 1. Once I was convinced, the temporary vote to even he and FC (hoping I could stop the landslide of popular opinion that his... directness spawned) seemed like a good decision. I'd gladly take some suspicion to keep him in the game.

This post is one of two things: 1) An honest attempt by a townie to explain himself, which I buy, or 2) An attempt to butter me up for later. I don't have a reputation here, so I would dismiss the second option outright. It's too self-sacrificing too early in the game to be an end-game strategic post. Meta's likely town. Besides I doubt he'd ever placate my ego, even with strategic implications in mind.

I'm really sorry meta, you're right. I had remembered reading someone who had a post that was antitown enough to post and I was going to do it after I took my nap (By the way guys: Sleep is amazing. Just so you know.)

It was Gnrlshrimp.




That's a rather antitown statement, and it's either faulty reasoning or a wolf trying to use poor logic, but it's still something to call out. I haven't really gotten any other leads to note at the moment.

I agree with Fiery regarding the post Gnrlshrimp made. The vote is fine, the post behind it is selfish at the least. Malicious, maybe not. But enough to warrant further considerations.

Is it particularly antitown to question the actions of someone so quick to point the finger?

There's nothing pro- or anti- town about changing your mind or being aggressive, as long as those actions are based in cohesive thought that clearly sprung from a logical place.

Honestly I'm surprised I haven't received more flak for hounding after Whooves so much. By Whooves' own logic, it'd make sense for a wolf to try and help gain traction against someone already kind of in line for lynching.

The fact you're so vehemently hounding me is the only reason I don't have you leaning wolf at the moment, to be honest. Scum would probably have backed off once the winds of change so clearly shifted. So to me it seems genuine enough, and as far as day-one contributions go, adequate.

Zjoot, you make a pretty solid argument, though one thing I'd point out is that Whooves is someone used to a different environment seemingly with a different, less passive playstyle. And if everyone played things safe every time then, well, I imagine it'd get a little boring. I am looking at all this from the perspective of someone new to it all, but it seems almost like a wolf could hide in plain sight by doing something unusual if the majority of players are too used to the meta and dismiss anything that doesn't fit.

For awhile, sure. But in the end just doing something unexpected or unusual isn't enough. Gambits rarely pan out profitably for wolves. Consistent, smart plays fair better.

TL;DR

Town:
Bunny of Faith
Zjoot
Meta

Neutral:
Fiery
Gnrlshrimp

Wolf:
Reccy
A bunch of the inactives. Just throw a dart at them really.
Anyone who I posed the question, "If I flip town tomorrow, who do you suspect next?" that failed to get back to me.

[Murska]

A sidenote: Gambits for wolves do pay off, if they're well thought-out and smart. /Much Experience Speaking

I don't really feel like the inactives crowd has a higher than average chance of being wolves. Possibly even slightly lower. However, I still advocate pressuring them, because of a couple reasons.

1: Hitting an inactive villager is not that big a loss. Hitting an active villager is.
2: With pressure, we might be able to turn some of the inactive people into active people, which drastically increases our chances.

[DoctorWhooves]

Haha...yeah. End game scum gambits are great fun. My favorite was when I was in an unwinnable game. Town had a few confirmed townies, making them basically unlynchable, and the only person we could possibly get lynched was a bulletproof townie. We had earlier janitored the town doctor, so for end-game my scum partner and I claimed I was the doctor, and I had saved the person that the bulletproof townie was trying to get lynched. The town believed us over the BP, lynched him, and we won in endgame.

Most fun endgame I've ever experienced.

[Lex-Kat]

Meh. Murska knows me well enough (I think) to know by now that I don't respond to walls-O-text. I also don't do much at the start of the game anymore, except possibly RP.

So, what would I do if DoctorWhooves flips Town? Shrug and continue pointing at Fleeing Coward.

[Disc Lorde]

Doctor, I noticed that you didn't give any thoughts about my points. Care to do so?

[Penguinator]

Doctor Whooves. I don't care for your attitude.

Also, as for the insistence that there are inactives: It's the middle of the week in the middle of the school year. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's been one in-game day, and I have midterms this week. I'm not exactly near my laptop.

[Legato Endless]

Rough Estimation of Current Voting:

DoctorWhooves – 6 (Recaiden, Bunny of Faith, Gnrlshrimp, Reinholdt, Lord Herman, penguinator)

Fleeing Coward – 5 (Grue Bait, Cuthalion, Lex-Kat, Count Ding Dong, abhorsen)

Recaiden- 4 (Dr Whooves, Zar Peter, Murska, Legato)

Count Dingdong - 3 (Chessgeek, Fan, BitterMelonFarm)

Meta – 2 (reaverb, Lemons)

Zjoot - 2 (ThePhantom, Thadria)

Fiery Tower- 2 (Disc Lord, Meta)

Zar Peter - 2 (Skippy, Zjoot)

Murska - 1 (BasketOfPuppies)

Grnlshrimp - 1 (The Fiery Tower)

Grue Bait – 1 (Ramsus)

52.5 Lemons - 1 (LoP)

Dallas-Dakota - 1 (Duck999)

Legato Endless - 1 (Fleeing Coward)

BasketOfPuppies - 1 (Nonayer)

Lord Herman - 1 (banjo1985)

banjo1985 - 1 (Dallas-Dakota)

(this was tallied by memory off my phone, so I apologize if there's any errors)

First person to respond to my inquisition regarding who they would lynch tomorrow if I flipped town. And the only one, I think. Anyway, his answer is basically "I have no idea, but probably this guy because he tends to be a wolf." That's a fair answer.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm uncertain how. This person was ____ in whatever previous game isn't a rational, it's an anecdote. Unless there's some bias on the part of the Narraters for who gets what roles, that's not actually meant to be taken seriously. Or rather, it's casual fun. Which is valid as its own thing, but it doesn't really engender trust for me as a reasonable answer. Besides which, voting for someone based on past history is a decent rational as a wolf, because you can't actually be called on it because the reasoning is inherently emotional.

I'll throw a vote towards Recaiden, who pings higher than either of the two front runners to me in terms of suspicion, though is by no means iron clad on my part. Having a few candidates also lends itself well to being able to test Whooves role claim at the end of the day.

[Disc Lorde]

D'ooh. Well Meta seems to be the only one following my logic on The Fiery Tower, and 6 are still voting for DoctorWhooves despite him being pretty clearly town. (Accountant roleclaim and no counterclaim so far.) So, unless people start picking up TFT, I'm going to switch my vote to Recaiden. I find it suspicious that he haven't switched his vote yet, and while he could just be a misguided townie, he's higher up on my list than The Fleeing Coward.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'll move my vote to Recaiden as well.
I would like to point out that no counterclaim yet does not always mean Whooves is actually who he claims to be. This is one of the more inactive WW forums so there always is a chance that the real Accountant is just paying no attention to the game. I would know since I got away with pretending to be role claim seer in red in Parallel WW because the actual role claim seer disappeared (Only saying this since I consider that game dead now)

[DoctorWhooves]

Doctor, I noticed that you didn't give any thoughts about my points. Care to do so?

Could you redirect me to which points in particular? I thought I hit everything that was germane to the current topics.

Doctor Whooves. I don't care for your attitude.

Also, as for the insistence that there are inactives: It's the middle of the week in the middle of the school year. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's been one in-game day, and I have midterms this week. I'm not exactly near my laptop.

Wrong. Sorry, not good enough. Read the topic please, all of it, and then come back with a vote based on something that isn't personal. I will wait.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm uncertain how. This person was ____ in whatever previous game isn't a rational, it's an anecdote. Unless there's some bias on the part of the Narraters for who gets what roles, that's not actually meant to be taken seriously. Or rather, it's casual fun. Which is valid as its own thing, but it doesn't really engender trust for me as a reasonable answer. Besides which, voting for someone based on past history is a decent rational as a wolf, because you can't actually be called on it because the reasoning is inherently emotional.
.

Oh it was a terrible vote. But it was very genuine and that's enough for me today.

I'll move my vote to Recaiden as well.
I would like to point out that no counterclaim yet does not always mean Whooves is actually who he claims to be. This is one of the more inactive WW forums so there always is a chance that the real Accountant is just paying no attention to the game. I would know since I got away with pretending to be role claim seer in red in Parallel WW because the actual role claim seer disappeared (Only saying this since I consider that game dead now)

I would love a counter-claim to be honest. I'll trade one-for-one with wolves all day.

[Legato Endless]

I would know since I got away with pretending to be role claim seer in red in Parallel WW because the actual role claim seer disappeared (Only saying this since I consider that game dead now)

Nice play by the way. The red world was pretty much gutted when things came to a halt.

[Penguinator]

Wrong. Sorry, not good enough. Read the topic please, all of it, and then come back with a vote based on something that isn't personal. I will wait.

No. All I see when I look through the thread is you insulting people.

[DoctorWhooves]

No. All I see when I look through the thread is you insulting people.

And THAT'S not a good enough reason to vote for me. While I admit I came into this game hot and heavy, I've since cooled down and would appreciate you working with not only me, but also the rest of town here.