Diablo III - Loot 2.0

[HMS Invincible]

No, it was a smart decision. A lot of builds were relying on lifesteal. They would push damage as high as possible and go with as little defenses and life as possible. It was the most valuable stat by a very significant margin.

Oh, and Lifesteal was already nerfed to 80% effectiveness in Inferno difficulty a few months after release.


Lifesteal is already gone from the game. No new items have it, and no items at 70 will have it.

Let's clarify something. Are you talking about losing lifesteal as you're character levels, or as the difficulty level increases? lvl 70 Characters vs Torment 6-10?

[Psyren]

It's pretty amusing that they didn't learn their lesson from D2 - prior to Lord of Destruction, life leech was the most valuable stat in the game there as well, and the most valuable weapons (especially bows) were socketed Hell rares crammed to the brim with PSkulls.

[orrion]

Let's clarify something. Are you talking about losing lifesteal as you're character levels, or as the difficulty level increases? lvl 70 Characters vs Torment 6-10?

Right now at 60 on Torment, Lifesteal was nerfed by 90%, which is 10% more than what it used to be in Inferno difficulty.

I don't know what the percentages will be from 61 to 69, but at 70 Lifesteal will be completely ineffective. It really doesn't matter anyway because the weapons at 70 will be so much better than any level 60 weapon from before 2.0 with Lifesteal.

[Pendulous]

^ That. I don't know what your issue is Pendulous but things are so much better now.

Also I never play below Expert, maybe that has something to do with it too?

Below Torment, item drops are completely unaffected. So if you're playing at Master, you might as well be playing Normal because you can kill faster.

[The_Jackal]

Below Torment, item drops are completely unaffected. So if you're playing at Master, you might as well be playing Normal because you can kill faster.

Cite your source, please.

[huttj509]

Cite your source, please.

Difficulty descriptions when selecting them.

The only difficulty that mentions drop rates (other than gems at 61+) is Torment, along with the slider further increasing xp/gold/legendary drop rates.

The other difficulties all just affect XP and Gold %.


Now, as to what the torment increase IS, nobody knows. Blizzard deliberately isn't saying, and drop rates are low enough that practical data that's outside of "got a lucky streak" is nigh impossible for the community to get.

Even if Torment 6 doubled the normal legendary drop rate, it'd be really really tough to show.

[Drascin]

...so basically either you dive right into Torment with what you have or might as well just play Normal? That does seem rather silly.

[Ramza00]

...so basically either you dive right into Torment with what you have or might as well just play Normal? That does seem rather silly.

You get more xp for higher difficulties. For example normal vs torment a 100 hit point enemy would have 919 hit points under torment, but he would give you 400 xp instead of 100 xp. If you can kill the enemy still quickly on torment then it makes since to do higher difficulties for faster paragon leveling.

But if you are trying to farm items, it is better to kill a lot of creatures quickly. Kill normals with 1 attack, and elites in less than 10 seconds and then move to the next mob as soon as you can.

Here are the numbers for Normal vs Torment VI

Normal: +0% Health, +0% Damage, +0% Gold Find, +0% Experience
Hard: +200% Health, +130% Damage, +75% Gold Find, +75% Experience
Expert: +320% Health, +189% Damage, +100% Gold Find, +100% Experience
Master: +512% Health, +273% Damage, +200% Gold Find, +200% Experience
Torment I: +819% Health, +396% Damage, +300% Gold Find, +300% Experience
Torment II: +1311% Health, +575% Damage, +400% Gold Find, +400% Experience
Torment III: +2097% Health, +833% Damage, +550% Gold Find, +550% Experience
Torment IV: +3355% Health, +1208% Damage, +800% Gold Find, +800% Experience
Torment V: +5369% Health, +1752% Damage, +1150% Gold Find, +1150% Experience
Torment VI: +8590% Health, +2540% Damage, +1600% Gold Find, +1600% Experience

[NineThePuma]

You get more xp for higher difficulties. For example normal vs torment a 100 hit point enemy would have 919 hit points under torment, but he would give you 400 xp instead of 100 xp. If you can kill the enemy still quickly on torment then it makes since to do higher difficulties for faster paragon leveling.

But if you are trying to farm items, it is better to kill a lot of creatures quickly. Kill normals with 1 attack, and elites in less than 10 seconds and then move to the next mob as soon as you can.

good to know

[Traab]

Man I forgot how much of a rollicking good time playing as a wizard is on lower difficulties. Chain lightning is a lot of fun for clearing large swarms of creatures and destroying entire rooms full of barrels and other assorted breakables for bonus exp and loot. Arcane barrage (I think thats the name) is just sweet for burning down bosses and champs. Pop out a hydra or a meteor if I feel bored and want to play and kaboom.

[Elfsoans]

I'm loving Loot 2.0 but still on the fence about the whole expansion, there is a good list of new features though that do interest me, still got some time to decide if I want to pre-order.

[Rodin]

...so basically either you dive right into Torment with what you have or might as well just play Normal? That does seem rather silly.

The difficulty level also increases the difficulty.

I know that sounds really obvious, but it makes a huge difference for someone who finds Normal to be easy and boring. If you're not purely farming for loot but playing for the challenge of it, those difficulty levels are great. I've been playing on mostly Expert/Master starting with fresh level 1 toons, and it makes the feel of the game much better than the "mindlessly kill stuff until you hit Hell difficulty" that the game was suffering from before.

[NineThePuma]

It's very mindlessly kill stuff for most of the game, imo. I like it anyway, but there's no real puzzle bosses most of the time, which is good, but if your DPS and Life On Hit is high enough you can literally sit there shooting things to death until they're dead.

[orrion]

It's very mindlessly kill stuff for most of the game, imo. I like it anyway, but there's no real puzzle bosses most of the time, which is good, but if your DPS and Life On Hit is high enough you can literally sit there shooting things to death until they're dead.

Then you raise the difficulty so you can't do that anymore.

[Dhavaer]

I got a triple unique drop from Diablo last night. One of them was Hammer Jammers. Dammit game, stop giving me golden pants!

[thirsting]

I just noticed you can dye legendaries too now. Snow-white Hammer Jammers!

[Psyren]

It's very mindlessly kill stuff for most of the game, imo. I like it anyway, but there's no real puzzle bosses most of the time, which is good, but if your DPS and Life On Hit is high enough you can literally sit there shooting things to death until they're dead.

Did any of the games have a "puzzle boss?" It always was about nuking them with overwhelming force (preferably in a large group) or whittling them down with attrition by having massive resistances and HP. (For most builds, both of these were desirable.)

Then you raise the difficulty so you can't do that anymore.

This, though I must admit even Expert stops being challenging very quickly. Then it basically becomes a slog to beat the game and unlock the higher difficulties in order to get the challenge back.

[Dhavaer]

So, having gotten all of my characters to 60, I decided to take my Wizard for a spin on Torment. At first, it was absolutely gruelling. She was the only character I'd had at 60 before, so she was the only one I hadn't played in 2.0 and thus had only old gear. Even trash monsters were like fighting D2 Izual.

Then I salvaged another set of Hammer Jammers and built Griswold's Masterpiece. It gave me something like a +42% damage boost and I started tearing through things again, right up until I had to retrieve the goatmen's staff from the wagon. The unique there spawned with frozen, and when I ran away from that I aggroed a group of champion javelin goats. Then I aggroed an elite horned beast and its pack of scavengers. Then I aggroed three wood wraiths.

I didn't die, somehow.

[NineThePuma]

Did any of the games have a "puzzle boss?" It always was about nuking them with overwhelming force (preferably in a large group) or whittling them down with attrition by having massive resistances and HP. (For most builds, both of these were desirable.)

Not really. Some bosses had tricks you had to deal with and complicated things to work around, but for the most part they were late game optionals in D1.

So, having gotten all of my characters to 60, I decided to take my Wizard for a spin on Torment. At first, it was absolutely gruelling. She was the only character I'd had at 60 before, so she was the only one I hadn't played in 2.0 and thus had only old gear. Even trash monsters were like fighting D2 Izual.

Then I salvaged another set of Hammer Jammers and built Griswold's Masterpiece. It gave me something like a +42% damage boost and I started tearing through things again, right up until I had to retrieve the goatmen's staff from the wagon. The unique there spawned with frozen, and when I ran away from that I aggroed a group of champion javelin goats. Then I aggroed an elite horned beast and its pack of scavengers. Then I aggroed three wood wraiths.

I didn't die, somehow.

Ah yes, the 'aggro everything in the zone that might be able to injure me' strategy. It usually goes much the same way for me.

[Traab]

You know, I cant help it, I just love my arcane torrent and electrocute combo. No matter what new spells, or new additions I get to them, I keep going right back to these. I cant find any spammable spells I would rather use. Im not sure why i dont enjoy using disintegrate, but I dont. I have hydra and meteor of course, but I rarely use them for anything but bosses, or at most, large clumps of champs or other big stuff. Im sure that will change of course, as I go up in difficulty. But for now im feeling no pain. Storm shield is a handy way to wear down stuff from a distance so I always have that up, it also makes for a handy warning system as it frequently blasts stuff offscreen coming for me.

[lord_khaine]

Im personally playing by the rule, that each time i level up i have to selec the new skills or runes i gained, and use them for at least one entire level.

That does make levering a new character a lot more exiting.

[Koury]

I made this chart recently and would like to share it with anyone whose interested. I'm also looking for people to help me spot any errors I may have made, or even entire affixes I may have missed.

And to head off the obvious, yes I know the specific numbers will be obsolete in a few days, but this chart being correct will speed the process of making one for 70 greatly.

Also, this chart only includes Rares, to keep its scale sane.

[Chen]

I've literally done nothing but upgrade mine when the very rare Str item drops and it's an upgrade. Occasionally I'll feel charitable and buy him something but for the most part he kicks arse just fine without bleeding edge gear. Honestly I prefer the challenge of not having them around, but I enjoy the banter so much that I bring them along anyway. Reminds me of Jade Empire where I would always put my teammate in passive mode so they wouldn't get in the way of my combat, but I liked it when they chimed in randomly.

You certainly could roll with someone who is the same as you to maximize the chances of him being well-geared but personally, I think the synergy of having different roles outweighs the advantage you'd get from better gear. For example, having the templar's taunt and heals are a big help to a wizard I find.

I ran with the Enchantress using that sword that summons a demon and it worked well on my Wizard. But I gave my Templar a Thunrderfuy I found and it worked MUCH better (even though it was an Int Thunderfury). One good thing about running Wizard/Templar combo is that your drops have a lot of Int which give the templar a big boost in Toughness. Since he's mainly used as a tank it works pretty well (clearly strength is better, but int isn't completely useless). This does seem to be a problem once the AH is gone. I geared my templar out with Strength rings/amulet but I get very few strength drops as my Wizard. I suppose I could switch to a Barb and just craft stuff for him. Still seems a bit awkward.

I bet I get more legendaries blowing through the game in a few hours on Torment II than you would doing Normal mode for Diablo's legendary.

My record is 93 minutes to clear from start to end and I got 5 legendaries (including Diablo's) in that run. Average for those runs I'd say is around 100 minutes and I get anywhere from 3-7 Legendaries from them. Basically running through everything throwing frozen orbs at big packs and taking a second or two to kill any elite pack I run into. It seems FAR more efficient for finding Legendaries than my normal farming in Torment (doing the full runs on hard).

[Psyren]

Im personally playing by the rule, that each time i level up i have to selec the new skills or runes i gained, and use them for at least one entire level.

That does make levering a new character a lot more exiting.

I would lose my mind if I tried that. Aside from the handful of builds I actively tweak/rotate among on a given character, there is just so much jank that doesn't fit my playstyle or that doesn't synergize with the passives I currently have open at all.

I ran with the Enchantress using that sword that summons a demon and it worked well on my Wizard. But I gave my Templar a Thunrderfuy I found and it worked MUCH better (even though it was an Int Thunderfury). One good thing about running Wizard/Templar combo is that your drops have a lot of Int which give the templar a big boost in Toughness. Since he's mainly used as a tank it works pretty well (clearly strength is better, but int isn't completely useless). This does seem to be a problem once the AH is gone. I geared my templar out with Strength rings/amulet but I get very few strength drops as my Wizard. I suppose I could switch to a Barb and just craft stuff for him. Still seems a bit awkward.

Actually I thought about it and there are ways to get playstyle synergy without losing stat synergy. A Witch Doctor/Enchantress combo is great at keeping her geared and protected for instance, and Monk/Scoundrel works well also since he will routinely peel attackers onto you and debuff your targets from afar. The Templar is the only odd duck dps-wise (in that there is no real ranged strength) but given that he's more about tanking than dps anyway you can just pile vitality gear onto him and that will work just as well; any class can keep him geared.

[orrion]

I run with the Enchantress on my Wizard, with a Maximum (demon summon sword). The demon is a pretty good tank and the Enchantress' charm and chicken abilities are awesome. She'll turn a group of elites into chickens for me on Torment II or III when I'm farming and that pack is dead or nearly dead by the time it wears off.

[The_Jackal]

I run with the Enchantress on my Wizard, with a Maximum (demon summon sword). The demon is a pretty good tank and the Enchantress' charm and chicken abilities are awesome. She'll turn a group of elites into chickens for me on Torment II or III when I'm farming and that pack is dead or nearly dead by the time it wears off.

Yes, the chicken ability is borderline broken, it's that good.

I bet I get more legendaries blowing through the game in a few hours on Torment II than you would doing Normal mode for Diablo's legendary.

If that's true, then you don't NEED those legendaries, because you're blowing through mobs with thirteen times the health in more or less the same timeframe. At day's end, the optimal course is the difficulty level where the majority of monsters can be one shot, while piling on the most bonuses to gold/xp. Now whether you find the optimal course interesting is a completely separate issue.

[Traab]

Question. Im a wizard, does the dps on my weapon add to my spell damage? Or should I ignore the big shiny dps numbers and only give a damn about the int/vit and such? Because I just got this gorgeous 1h weapon that has like 4x the raw dps of my current item, but it has no real int/vit on it. (Instead its +life per hit and per kill)

[Dhavaer]

Question. Im a wizard, does the dps on my weapon add to my spell damage? Or should I ignore the big shiny dps numbers and only give a damn about the int/vit and such? Because I just got this gorgeous 1h weapon that has like 4x the raw dps of my current item, but it has no real int/vit on it. (Instead its +life per hit and per kill)

Yes, your spell damage is a % of your weapon damage.

[Traab]

Sweet thanks. Heh, im trying to do some last second shopping and selling on the auction house before it goes bye bye forever. Funny thing is, im making my profit from volume, not high end items. I get so many yellows with useable stats per session that sometimes I have all 10 auctions up, a full stash of random items waiting their turn, and then whatever I got from the latest run. And because I sell them cheap (like 40-50k or so) instead of asking for outrageous amounts, I tend to sell a solid 30 items a day.

[orrion]

If that's true, then you don't NEED those legendaries, because you're blowing through mobs with thirteen times the health in more or less the same timeframe. At day's end, the optimal course is the difficulty level where the majority of monsters can be one shot, while piling on the most bonuses to gold/xp. Now whether you find the optimal course interesting is a completely separate issue.

Of course I don't need them.

However, legendary items enable or enhance builds. I'd love to find a Wand of Woh, Gesture of Orpheus, or Slorak's Madness with a socket. Or even the double hydra wand. I'd also like more Stones of Jordan (only one I have rolled cold damage), a Magefist, and a Tal Rasha Belt and a Tal Rasha Amulet that didn't roll like absolute garbage.