Simple Q&A D&D 3.5 (by RAW) XXVI

[OMG PONIES]

Q223: Would a dragonfire adept using the Humanoid Shape invocation keep their breath weapon?

In the rules about change shape that Humanoid Shape references, there is a bullet point that reads:

The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).

The breath weapon in question is (Su), so that bullet does not apply. There is a separate bullet point stating:

The creature retains all other special attacks and qualities of its original form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.

Because of that, I'm inclined to say that the breath weapon would be lost since only (Ex) class features are included in the first bullet's exemption and breath weapons are specifically called out in the second as being lost. However, a player of mine is trying to use the first bullet point to support the position that all class features are exempted (as they are a function of class chosen rather than as a function of "natural form." Regardless of the RAI, what is the RAW answer?

Q224: Would a medium dragonfire adept using the Humanoid Shape invocation be able to take the shape of a Huge humanoid--specifically a constrictor naga?

The Monster Manual had a clause under the rules for change shape that one could only change into a size category one smaller or larger than their natural form. This clause is not in the SRD or Rules Compendium passages on change shape. Has it been removed, or assumed to continue to exist?

[NoACWarrior]

Q220
Can objects animated by the Animate Objects spell be used for any purpose aside from combat?

A220 Yes.
They act exactly as animated objects the construct, albeit for a few rounds. They only attack when commanded by their master, and will do anything their master says as long as they can do it. If told to come and be seats for guests and dignitaries they will attempt to do so.

From the SRD - They follow orders without question and to the best of their abilities

[Curmudgeon]

A 221

This ability has been updated (slightly) in the Complete Scoundrel Errata file, without the designers seeing a necessity to change the word which is the source of your confusion: "appearance". "Form" is a synonym of "appearance" (reference here). Appearance meaning "semblance" is recorded from early 15c.; that of "visible state or form" from late 14c. (reference here); the more-inclusive definition (qualities of the form beyond mere semblance) is actually of slightly longer standing.

Because English treats "form" and "appearance" as synonyms, and I can find no D&D citation giving a more restricted meaning (equivalent to the difference between Disguise Self and Alter Self, say), there is no RAW basis for "only the appearance" to be treated differently than if it said "only the form" in the Mountebank's Alter Ego ability. Alter Ego works like Alter Self, but limited to only a single appearance/form at levels 3-5 of this PrC.

A 224

That restriction has been removed from Change Shape. From the Monster Manual Errata file:

Change Shape (Page 306–307)
Make the following changes.
Delete the second sentence of the entry.

However, a Constrictor Naga is not an available form for Humanoid Shape, as it's a Monstrous Humanoid rather than a Humanoid creature (3.5 update for Oriental Adventures in Dragon # 318, page 45).

[NoACWarrior]

Q223: Would a dragonfire adept using the Humanoid Shape invocation keep their breath weapon?

In the rules about change shape that Humanoid Shape references, there is a bullet point that reads:

The breath weapon in question is (Su), so that bullet does not apply. There is a separate bullet point stating:
Because of that, I'm inclined to say that the breath weapon would be lost since only (Ex) class features are included in the first bullet's exemption and breath weapons are specifically called out in the second as being lost. However, a player of mine is trying to use the first bullet point to support the position that all class features are exempted (as they are a function of class chosen rather than as a function of "natural form." Regardless of the RAI, what is the RAW answer?

A223 The Breath Weapon would be lost. if it was racially derived.

While the first bullet stated concerns lost attributes when Humanoid Shaped, it does not explicitly state in the same bullet or continuing clause that unaffected abilities MUST be kept.
The second bullet states explicitly that breath and gaze weapons from a natural form are lost, with the rest of the special abilities intact.

If the first bullet explicitly states that unaffected abilities are kept (or explicitly stating that supernatural breath weapons are kept) then it would be a RAW issue between both bullets.

[NoACWarrior]

Q222

Regarding Runescarred Berserker; As a level 10 RSB, am I understanding it right that it would take 7 hours to prepare your spells and you have to "re-scar" after each use of a spell?

A222 No, the RSB does not have the ability to prepare spells per day as a normal spell caster. The Runescars are simply magically crafted scars with a craft time of 1 hour, a sacrifice component of 1d6 HP, and charge count of 1. So long as the RSB spends 1 hour crafting, sacrifices 1d6 HP, and has an available scar slot available (with the scar limit of 7) the RSB can create a Runescar. Runescars last as long as scrolls do and are suppressed as normal when encountering magical suppression. There is no limit as to how many Runescars are used or crafted per day, save for the amount of hours per day and the maximum amount of Runescars which can exist at a time.

[Secosera]

A222 No, the RSB does not have the ability to prepare spells per day as a normal spell caster. The Runescars are simply magically crafted scars with a craft time of 1 hour, a sacrifice component of 1d6 HP, and charge count of 1. So long as the RSB spends 1 hour crafting, sacrifices 1d6 HP, and has an available scar slot available (with the scar limit of 7) the RSB can create a Runescar. Runescars last as long as scrolls do and are suppressed as normal when encountering magical suppression. There is no limit as to how many Runescars are used or crafted per day, save for the amount of hours per day and the maximum amount of Runescars which can exist at a time.

Hmm, I think I understand...

Just to clarify though:

Q225 Does that mean that each rune has 1d3-1d6 casts of the stored spell?

[NoACWarrior]

Q225 Does that mean that each rune has 1d3-1d6 casts of the stored spell?

A225 No. Each Runescar, when activated, emulates 1 spell total and the magic is discharged from the Runescar.

Additional information to add, for each level of the spell which is crafted into a Runescar the RSB takes 1d6 damage when crafting.

[CyberThread]

Q16

IF something cost a standard action, what other options do you have left to do, on that turn once you expend that action?

[Tarlek Flamehai]

A223 Disputed Reviewing the definition of Change Shape from WoTC website, it seems clear to me that "form" applies to physical shape. I believe that they use form instead of race because you can Change Shape into a different sex, or even a specific individual. There is no indication that you would lose Class abilities by doing so. The breath weapon would be retained.

A223 The Breath Weapon would be lost.

While the first bullet stated concerns lost attributes when Humanoid Shaped, it does not explicitly state in the same bullet or continuing clause that unaffected abilities MUST be kept.
The second bullet states explicitly that breath and gaze weapons are lost, with the rest of the special abilities intact.

If the first bullet explicitly states that unaffected abilities are kept (or explicitly stating that supernatural breath weapons are kept) then it would be a RAW issue between both bullets.

[Andezzar]

Q16Q 226

IF something cost a standard action, what other options do you have left to do, on that turn once you expend that action?

A 226

You still have a move action and a swift action and as many free actions as your DM allows.

[Mongrel]

Q16

IF something cost a standard action, what other options do you have left to do, on that turn once you expend that action?

From the SRD:

In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.

You also get one Swift action each round, usable any time you could use a free action

Edit: Ninja'd!

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Q227 Bloodlines levels do not add Hit Dice and only stack with class levels for mathematically derived results. Does this mean that bloodlines levels are not stacked with class levels to determine ECL?
Note the definition of ECL varies slightly from PHD to SRD.

[NoACWarrior]

A223 Disputed Reviewing the definition of Change Shape from WoTC website, it seems clear to me that "form" applies to physical shape. I believe that they use form instead of race because you can Change Shape into a different sex, or even a specific individual. There is no indication that you would lose Class abilities by doing so. The breath weapon would be retained.

A223 Revisited and Now Resolved The Breath Weapon provided by the Dragonfire Adept Class is not lost during a Change Shape Invocation. is still lost even if it is a class derived supernatural ability. If it was Extraordinary, Spell like, or even based on a spell then it would be kept. For change shape, the class based protection against the loss of a particular ability only covers extraordinary special attacks derived from the class levels. Furthermore, while other special qualities and supernatural attack options would also be kept according to the 2nd listed description from shape change, the 2nd listed description has a special exception for breath weapons and gaze attacks which state they are lost.

IF the change shape listed description also included on the same line on the class derived exception that special qualities were also kept, then I would be inclined to agree with your argument, however change shape has no added language that alter self has to address this.


An argument could be made about form. But that may be out of scope. Also consider the following snippet held in WoTC's Polymorphing Revisited Part Two which addresses a change in natural form:

Gaze attacks and breath weapons are special cases. A gaze attack depends on how the creature's face (or what serves as a face) is configured. Likewise, a breath weapon requires a specific configuration of lungs (or other internal organs) plus the throat, windpipe, mouth, and other breathing apparatus. For example, a cat's body just can't support a dragon's breath weapon, even when the cat is really a dragon that has assumed a cat's form.

If you read the rules strictly, the loss of gaze attacks and breath weapons applies only when a creature changes form through the alternate form power. The alter self spell description, for example, implies that any form that has eyes can support a gaze attack and any form with a mouth can support a breath weapon.

Skip never talks about those derived from a class feature or class dependent, his input was regarding natural form changes and breath weapons and gaze attacks derived from a natural form.

So if the change shape invocation explicitly stated that so long as the new form has a mouth the new form also supports a breath weapon then my answer would change.

Shapechange from the Glossery:

The creature loses the natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its original form. The creature retains all other special attacks and qualities of its original form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.

Shapechange from Rules Compendium page 24:

The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its natural form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its natural form not derived from class levels. The creature retains all other attacks and special qualities of its natural form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.

With wording changed from Original to Natural with Rules compendium, there is no clear mention that class derived and dependent Supernatural Breath Weapons and Gaze Attacks so long as a creature can breath (with a mouth that can open) and have normal eyes (which can be opened). Change Shape will remove racial / natural derived Supernatural Breath Weapons and Gaze Attacks as normal. Due to Change Shape not explicitly mentioning supernatural abilities class derived as being removed, and also make no mention of class derived Supernatural Breath Weapons in the racial / natural removal clause, the Supernatural Breath Weapon provided as a class derived feature from the Dragonfire Adept is not removed.

Edit: changes in Red. Original RAW without update from Rules Compendium stricken out.

Thanks to HunterOfJello and Zweisteine who pointed out the rule changes and the strict RAW interpretations.
Thanks to Tarlek Flamehai for persuing the mater further so we could find out the truth.

[kkplx]

Q 228

The power inertial armor does not provide any defense against touch attacks in general, correct? Only against those of incorporeal foes?

[NoACWarrior]

Q227 Bloodlines levels do not add Hit Dice and only stack with class levels for mathematically derived results. Does this mean that bloodlines levels are not stacked with class levels to determine ECL?
Note the definition of ECL varies slightly from PHD to SRD.

A227 That is correct, Bloodlines do not add into ECL. Bloodline levels only affect level-based abilities, and since ECL is not a level-based ability then it is not affected. Further more, a Bloodline Class Level does not count as a Character Class Level, as it is not a valid Character Class. Additionally, according to the Glossary, ECL is calculated from level adjustment and Hit dice (which can be derived from Racial HD or Class Levels).

This number represents a creature's overall power relative to that of a character from the Player's Handbook. A creature with an effective character level (ECL) of 10 is roughly equivalent to a 10th-level character. A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment. For instance, a splinterwaif has 2 HD and a +4 level adjustment. It is the equivalent of a 6th-level character.

[NoACWarrior]

Q 228

The power inertial armor does not provide any defense against touch attacks in general, correct? Only against those of incorporeal foes?

A228 Correct.

Unless otherwise stated in the description for the armor bonus, or further modified via a spell or ability, all armor bonuses by default are bypassed by touch attacks. Armor bonuses as a result of a force effect or ability are retained against an incorporeal foe.

(I haven't explored if armor bonuses modified via a spell or ability to apply to touch attacks also are effective versus incorporeal foes)

[zlefin]

Q229

Are unarmed strikes and natural attacks weapons for the purposes of
fine swarms' immunity to weapon damage?


Swarm type says it's immune to weapon damage,
but unarmed strikes don't seem to count as weapons in general, only for specific purposes. Not sure at all about natural attacks.

[Curmudgeon]

A 229

Excerpted from the definition:

natural weapon

Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach.

unarmed strike

A successful blow, typically dealing nonlethal damage, from a character attacking without weapons. A monk can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, but others deal nonlethal damage.

Though unarmed strikes are categorized as natural weapon attacks, they are explicitly weaponless.

Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage.

An unarmed strike does not use a weapon, nor is it slashing or piercing. Unarmed strikes deal normal damage to swarms.

[Qc Storm]

Some grapple-related questions.

Q230

When can you rake? The definition for Rake in the SRD states that you can rake "whenever you begin a turn while grappling". However, looking at my favorite MMoF form's description, the Cave Troll states it can "rake when it gets a hold". Which seems to imply it can do so upon first grappling a creature.

Q231

The very same creature's Improved Grab states that you can start a grapple as a free action after hitting a claw attack. Does this mean I can only grapple, or can I still grab the creature? Am I limited by the size of my target? Such things usually specify one size smaller.

Q232

Can you use several natural attacks while grappled? I was under the impression that you could, but I am currently reconsidering my stance.

What if you have someone Grabbed? Can you attack it with the limb currently holding it? (e.g crushing it with your claw). Can you use your other natural attacks against other enemies? Or even the grabbed victim?

Q233

Constrict, how? Does it activate when initiating a grapple? When the target attempts to flee? Does it bypass DR?

Q234

When you "make a grapple check for damage". You use unarmed damage (and not natural attack damage), correct? With constrict, if any?

[Cardea]

Q 235

Outside of Enlightened Fist, is there any way to turn Ranged Touch Spells to count or become Touch spells?

[NoACWarrior]

Q 235

Outside of Enlightened Fist, is there any way to turn Ranged Touch Spells to count or become Touch spells?

A235 No, Enlightened Fist is the only way to turn a Ray Spell (Requiring a Ranged Touch Attack Roll) into a Touch Spell (Requiring a Melee Touch Attack Roll).
It may however become possible in the future to change Ranged Touch Spells (which require a Ranged Touch Attack) into Touch Spells (which require a Melee Touch attack). Also, Enlightened Fist's ability is only applied to Ray Spells.

[Necroticplague]

Some grapple-related questions.

Q230

When can you rake? The definition for Rake in the SRD states that you can rake "whenever you begin a turn while grappling". However, looking at my favorite MMoF form's description, the Cave Troll states it can "rake when it gets a hold". Which seems to imply it can do so upon first grappling a creature.

Q231

The very same creature's Improved Grab states that you can start a grapple as a free action after hitting a claw attack. Does this mean I can only grapple, or can I still grab the creature? Am I limited by the size of my target? Such things usually specify one size smaller.

Q232

Can you use several natural attacks while grappled? I was under the impression that you could, but I am currently reconsidering my stance.

What if you have someone Grabbed? Can you attack it with the limb currently holding it? (e.g crushing it with your claw). Can you use your other natural attacks against other enemies? Or even the grabbed victim?

Q233

Constrict, how? Does it activate when initiating a grapple? When the target attempts to flee? Does it bypass DR?

Q234

When you "make a grapple check for damage". You use unarmed damage (and not natural attack damage), correct? With constrict, if any?

A230:As long as it suceeds the grapple check to actually get a hold, then specific trumps general, and it can rake.

A231:Grabbing a creature is starting a grapple with it, it's just skipping the melee touch attack roll and going straight to "roll opposed grapple to see if you grab hold".

A232:No, as taking a full-attack is not under the options available when grappling.

If you have improved grab, though, you aren't considered to be grappling, so your free to use whatever natural attacks you want on whomever."Crushing it with your claw" is specifically stated to be an available option as part of Improved grab, but not if you have constrict.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

A233:
Whenever you manage to succeed on a grapple check. So on your first grapple check to get a hold, your grapple check to do damage, grapple check to oppose him escaping, all of it triggers constrict.

A234:Yes to both of them, though there is a feat to allow claw or slam damage instead.

[DarkSonic1337]

Q 235


When casting a spell with Shadow Evocation does the new spell share shadow evocation's school and descriptor?

Is a Shadow Evocation Fireball a Illusion/Evocation [Fire] (Shadow) spell?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Q236
I remember reading somewhere that Natural Weapons are considered light weapons, is that stated in any rulebook?

[Necroticplague]

Q236
I remember reading somewhere that Natural Weapons are considered light weapons, is that stated in any rulebook?

A236
This is simply false. Light weapons are a category of manufactured weapons (along with 1handed and 2 handed), thus do not apply to natural weapons. The closest equivalence is primary vs. secondary, which has rules of its own. Power Attack implies they are light weapons, but the rules for attacking while in a grapple differentiate natural weapons and light weapons from each other.

[Andezzar]

A 236 Contention

Power Attack and Weapon Finesse consider them Light Weapons:

You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies.

Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.

The rules for attacking in a grapple make no distinction between natural weapons and light weapons, even though they needlessly list them separately:

Attack Your Opponent
You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

The only natural weapon that has separate rules is (as always) the unarmed strike:

Damage Your Opponent
While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.

Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual -4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

[Curmudgeon]

A 235 No.

A Shadow Evocation is always just an Illusion (Shadow) spell. It does not pick up any attribute (school, subschool, or descriptor) of the quasi-real Evocation it's creating. Only those parts of that spell which Shadow Evocation specifies are adopted. Making a Spellcraft check when Shadow Evocation is cast is one way to recognize the spell as an Illusion and thereby not need to make the Will save to disbelieve it.

[lytokk]

Q237

When a spell-like-ability, or any other ability call for example, a charisma based will save, does that mean the save DC is set by the creature's charisma score, or does the saving creature remove their wisdom modifier from their will save and instead substitute their charisma modifier when rolling the save. I'm starting to think I've been playing this one wrong.

[Qc Storm]

Q237

Since you can't take a full attack in a grapple, how do you make your rake attacks?

Additionally, isn't there a rule that allows you to make a light weapon attack at -4? Couldn't you make an iterative grapple checks using those? I know it is possible to make several grapple checks if your BAB is higher enough (for example, using Grapple for Damage and constrict). That one isn't a grapple check though.

[Andezzar]

A 237

It is the Attribute used to calculate the DC. Usually spell-like abilities have a DC of 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier and Supernaturals get 10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma). If the creature's Attribute modifier changes the DC for the ability changes accordingly.

A 238

Nothing in the Grapple rules prohibits you from making a full attack, but you are limited to light weapons (including unarmed strikes and other natural weapons)

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

The bit about the -4 to attacks with light weapons is quoted in A 236 already.