Naruto VII: I see your God and raise you 2 time traveling spirits

[Socratov]

Hello and Welcome to yet another instalment of the Naruto discussion thread. Naruto is a manga about Naruto: a ninja wearing an orange tracksuit who has a particular friendship-no-jutsu.

previous thread here

[Infernally Clay]

So what're the chances that the Sharingan was holding Kakashi back all these years and he just got a massive power up?

[ben-zayb]

Without the chakra drain, he'll start popping out some of the thousand obscure jutsus he copied, which coincidentally are especially potent on team battles. And just like Lee taking off his training weights, expect Kakashi to suddenly show how the Sharingan handicap massively improved his chakra reserve and control. (Does it even work like that?)

And then he'll release Nozarashi

[Traab]

Without the chakra drain, he'll start popping out some of the thousand obscure jutsus he copied, which coincidentally are especially potent on team battles. And just like Lee taking off his training weights, expect Kakashi to suddenly show how the Sharingan handicap massively improved his chakra reserve and control. (Does it even work like that?)

And then he'll release Nozarashi

That would be my guess. The sharingan is a constant drain on him even covered, just not a huge one. So like exercising a muscle, by his chakra supply constantly burning and refilling, his reserves are now kage level easily. I also wouldnt be surprised if he still fights like he has a sharingan, because his mind and body have learned how it works. In other words, his regular eyes now process information like an active sharingan, because his mind and body have been doing it so long its reflex.

[some_geek]

So what're the chances that the Sharingan was holding Kakashi back all these years and he just got a massive power up?

I think Naruto and Kakashi were fighting on the same level when Tobi had his mask on. Naruto had several massive power-ups since that time. If Kakashi becomes any weaker after losing his sharingan, he won't be of any use at all.

[Morph Bark]

Without the chakra drain, he'll start popping out some of the thousand obscure jutsus he copied, which coincidentally are especially potent on team battles. And just like Lee taking off his training weights, expect Kakashi to suddenly show how the Sharingan handicap massively improved his chakra reserve and control. (Does it even work like that?)

No doubt. If Kakashi starts doing stuff when Madara returns, I fully expect to see some great combos again like with Gai just before. The Third Hokage knew tons of jutsu and he gave us a great fight, so I bet Kakashi can give us something good to see too.

[LaZodiac]

No doubt. If Kakashi starts doing stuff when Madara returns, I fully expect to see some great combos again like with Gai just before. The Third Hokage knew tons of jutsu and he gave us a great fight, so I bet Kakashi can give us something good to see too.

Here's hoping. Fingers crossed.

[Thrawn183]

I wouldn't be surprised if they decided Kakashi had been held back by magic-emo-Uchiha-chakra this whole time. Because eyes are a mental illness.

[ryuplaneswalker]

No doubt. If Kakashi starts doing stuff when Madara returns, I fully expect to see some great combos again like with Gai just before. The Third Hokage knew tons of jutsu and he gave us a great fight, so I bet Kakashi can give us something good to see too.

If Kakashi hits Madara with the Water Prison jutsu I will totally Mark out.

[Lord Raziere]

ok, this has gone from awesome to ridiculous to ridiculously awesome. the title is what made me catch up.

the reincarnation thing actually makes the generation repeat thing make sense: its just one of those world where the same people keep popping up again and making similar things happen.

and yeah, I would actually like Kakashi to be powered up by getting rid of the Sharingan. The Haxingan is not only a ridiculous hax of a jutsu that makes you relying on one power for everything, but its also canonically a thing that slowly fills you with evil energy that makes you go murder-y and turn to the Dark Side of the Force.

[LaZodiac]

the reincarnation thing actually makes the generation repeat thing make sense: its just one of those world where the same people keep popping up again and making similar things happen.

The big problem with this is that a large point of the series is that there shouldn't be destiny. This isn't SUPPOSED to be a world where the same people just keep popping up to make similar things happen

[Infernally Clay]

The big problem with this is that a large point of the series is that there shouldn't be destiny. This isn't SUPPOSED to be a world where the same people just keep popping up to make similar things happen

It's not that there "shouldn't be destiny", but that it is within our power to screw destiny and do what we want.

[Socratov]

ok, this has gone from awesome to ridiculous to ridiculously awesome. the title is what made me catch up.

the reincarnation thing actually makes the generation repeat thing make sense: its just one of those world where the same people keep popping up again and making similar things happen.

and yeah, I would actually like Kakashi to be powered up by getting rid of the Sharingan. The Haxingan is not only a ridiculous hax of a jutsu that makes you relying on one power for everything, but its also canonically a thing that slowly fills you with evil energy that makes you go murder-y and turn to the Dark Side of the Force.

Happy to lure you back in again

[Lord Raziere]

well. here is the thing.

I think the point of Naruto is that it acknowledges that history keeps making the same stupid screw ups all the time, but that it doesn't mean it has to always be that way. its sort of like how Wheel of Time ended:

Spoiler: Wheel of Time Spoilers

Show

Rand Al'Thor, like, wants to break the cycle of ages by killing Shai'tan, because y'know, screw destiny and all that right? but he like, found that to kill Shai'tan would be to create a world that is just as bad as what Shai'tan would do, where there would be no freedom and such, and therefore doesn't kill him and instead kicks him out of the world so that everyone would be free, because that is the only moral option, even though the cycle of ages keeps on weaving.

now think of what Madara is doing as trying to kill Shai'tan. sure the cycle of ninja wars thing sucks, but that doesn't mean we aren't free to choose our own destiny, but if we try Madara's plan it just leads to no freedom at all. history goes on, with people free to choose as they like, it just so happens that people can be notoriously bad at learning from past mistakes. if you don't learn from history....

or maybe thats all wrong, I dunno, but they do have similar themes of freedom despite cyclical ages thing.

on another note:
does anyone get the feeling that Naruto is some sort of weird shinto-buddhist super-powered ninja version of the Bible or something? because the whole backstory with the sage of six paths, his mother eating a fruit and his sons duking it out all sounds like Eve eating from the tree of knowledge, followed by Cain and Abel's conflict with one another.....and then of course, years later we get a messianic ninja who just came back from the dead and wants to change the ninja world for the better so yeah....weird.....or maybe I'm reading too much into this....

[ben-zayb]

Pretty sure all possible RL religion references have already been pointed out, with the Naruto = Jesus being the most famous one.

Re: Kakashi: I'm not sure if directly offensive jutsus would affect Madara, but what I suspect is Kakashi using Battlefield Control type of jutsus instead used on the terrain or the team itself for tactical positioning.

[LaZodiac]

Pretty sure all possible RL religion references have already been pointed out, with the Naruto = Jesus being the most famous one.

Re: Kakashi: I'm not sure if directly offensive jutsus would affect Madara, but what I suspect is Kakashi using Battlefield Control type of jutsus instead used on the terrain or the team itself for tactical positioning.

They explicitly won't unless they have sage chakra in them. Though Naruto could just lend some to Kakashi since he can do that and stuff.

[Grytorm]

I have not read Naruto for a while but I randomly read this thread. But the reincarnation thing sounds awesome.

[Ramza00]

well. here is the thing.
on another note:
does anyone get the feeling that Naruto is some sort of weird shinto-buddhist super-powered ninja version of the Bible or something? because the whole backstory with the sage of six paths, his mother eating a fruit and his sons duking it out all sounds like Eve eating from the tree of knowledge, followed by Cain and Abel's conflict with one another.....and then of course, years later we get a messianic ninja who just came back from the dead and wants to change the ninja world for the better so yeah....weird.....or maybe I'm reading too much into this....

Princess Kaguya Ōtsutsuki who in the manga consumes the fruit of the Ten Tails, this character is probably based off the Japanese story of The Tale of The Bamboo Cutter. In the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter there is a character called Princess Kaguya, she is an alien sent from heaven/the moon, Kaguya was desired by many men on earth, she rejected them, and in the end returns to her people. Now the story of the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter is from the tenth century AD, The Japanese Princess Kaguya story has some roots that stem from the Chinese Creation Myth of Chang'e which tells the creation of the Sun and Moon (we are talking very old myth as in BC times, thousands of years separate Kaguya and Chang'e). There are several versions of this creation myth but in all in the end Chang'e eats a magical pill, a pill connected make one Immortal. After eating the pill and (re)becoming immortal Chang'e floats into the sky until she becomes the moon.

[Morph Bark]

and yeah, I would actually like Kakashi to be powered up by getting rid of the Sharingan. The Haxingan is not only a ridiculous hax of a jutsu that makes you relying on one power for everything, but its also canonically a thing that slowly fills you with evil energy that makes you go murder-y and turn to the Dark Side of the Force.

Considering the Dark Side makes getting power easy and is fueled most by uninhibited emotion, the Sharingan is the Dark Side. Literally.

[Ramza00]

Considering the Dark Side makes getting power easy and is fueled most by uninhibited emotion, the Sharingan is the Dark Side. Literally.

And white zetsu are stormtroopers

[Aotrs Commander]

It appears here is a possibility I may be spared having to make the decision as whether to have an end point to the DVDs, as the decision may have been taken out of my hands... For the first time since I can remember, the latest volume has come out and the next one isn't available for pre-order (nor can I see it on the producer's website and they haven't responded to my email query.) So unless I want to pay considerably more for the US release, my Naruto DVDs may have come to the end of the line. I guess we'll see...

[Lord Raziere]

Considering the Dark Side makes getting power easy and is fueled most by uninhibited emotion, the Sharingan is the Dark Side. Literally.

yeah.....that there is a reason why the only Uchiha concept I have in mind for a roleplaying game is a guy that decides tear out and destroy his own eyes before they can go Sharingan, then decides to become a great ninja despite being blind. because its far more badass to get rid of the Sithgan and then learned how to use power properly, all because you made a moral choice not to let such power corrupt you.

also, Obito is Vader, but Madara isn't Sidious, that role is filled by either Kabuto or Orochimaru since they can make zombies....

[ryuplaneswalker]

I have not read Naruto for a while but I randomly read this thread. But the reincarnation thing sounds awesome.

It would have been better had it been in another manga...or not have been another addon to the backstory that was stupid and made no sense in the first place.

[Morph Bark]

yeah.....that there is a reason why the only Uchiha concept I have in mind for a roleplaying game is a guy that decides tear out and destroy his own eyes before they can go Sharingan, then decides to become a great ninja despite being blind. because its far more badass to get rid of the Sithgan and then learned how to use power properly, all because you made a moral choice not to let such power corrupt you.

also, Obito is Vader, but Madara isn't Sidious, that role is filled by either Kabuto or Orochimaru since they can make zombies....

It's a good concept.

And while Obito-Madara isn't really Vader-Sidious, the Uchiha pairings are very much in line with the Rule of Two.

Madara-Obito
Obito-Nagato
Obito-Sasuke
Itachi-Sasuke

Nagato may not be Uchiha, but he has the eyes.

Orochimaru-Kabuto and Orochimaru-Sasuke or Orochimaru-Kimimaro are also some that fit the bill. Heck, Kimimaro is well in line in role with Darth Maul.

[Rater202]

I have not read Naruto for a while but I randomly read this thread. But the reincarnation thing sounds awesome.

Thank you. someone else get's it.

And I'm not certain, but I think it's been foreshadowed since the begining

It appears here is a possibility I may be spared having to make the decision as whether to have an end point to the DVDs, as the decision may have been taken out of my hands... For the first time since I can remember, the latest volume has come out and the next one isn't available for pre-order (nor can I see it on the producer's website and they haven't responded to my email query.) So unless I want to pay considerably more for the US release, my Naruto DVDs may have come to the end of the line. I guess we'll see...

That sucks.

[Lord Raziere]

It's a good concept.

And while Obito-Madara isn't really Vader-Sidious, the Uchiha pairings are very much in line with the Rule of Two.

Madara-Obito
Obito-Nagato
Obito-Sasuke
Itachi-Sasuke

Nagato may not be Uchiha, but he has the eyes.

Orochimaru-Kabuto and Orochimaru-Sasuke or Orochimaru-Kimimaro are also some that fit the bill. Heck, Kimimaro is well in line in role with Darth Maul.

and don't forget Sasuke's colors are red and black, his eyes and hair. while Naruto's colors include blue chakra, and senjutsu, green chakra. so they even got the Lightsaber colors down (yes I know the Kyuubi's chakra is red and Sasuke's lightning is blue, its not perfect) that ninja are supposed to be calm and collected, and that the fact that Sasuke wields lightning at all puts gives him Sith parallels, as well the fact that he wields a freaking chokuto. and that Rasengan if you don't put any power into it, slams people back much like force push....

really, by now, all we need is Naruto finding a katana or something to channel senjutsu chakra through and the parallels will be complete. then we can have Naruto and Sasuke duel each other and then Sasuke suddenly reveals:
"No Naruto....I am your nephew....and Sakura.....is your AUNT!"
"NOOOOOOOO!!!!! THATS NOT PLAUSIBLE!"
"Search your feelings, you know it to be dramatically true."

[LaZodiac]

New Chapter:

Spoiler

Show

Madara wins. Also he has four shadows now. But yeah, Madara wins.

Also Sakura gets taken out in a single attack. Because...useless.

[ben-zayb]

New Chapter:

Spoiler

Show

Madara wins. Also he has four shadows now. But yeah, Madara wins.

Also Sakura gets taken out in a single attack. Because...useless.

Spoiler

Show

Shadows are weaksauce... being subdued with god bunshin and ****. Apparently they're made of the same stuff as black zetsu, too.

The "let's jump ahead without forethought" plan is really not the type of teamwork that I expected. Madara got me on that one.

[Traab]

New Chapter:

Spoiler

Show

Madara wins. Also he has four shadows now. But yeah, Madara wins.

Also Sakura gets taken out in a single attack. Because...useless.

Meh, just following in her masters footsteps.

Spoiler

Show

Didnt tsunade land maybe a decent hit or two then get stomped repeatedly? At least she did better than the mizukage and her CONSTANT whining about how doomed they are. Sorry, just watched the fights on youtube. Some badass stuff, but man was the 5 kage versus madera amusing. Every crowning moment of awesome was roflstomped into the ground by madera. Tuschikage erases an area the size of 4 olympic stadiums to get rid of the trees and poison blooms? Madera doesnt give a damn. Raikage and tsunade sandwich punch through his susanoo? Madera stabs her with a 2 foot wide blade and pimp slaps her into a rock face. They rally and get ready to fight because naruto is counting on them? Madera sighs and lets some freaking clones beat their asses like rented drums. Reanimation jutsu breaks and madera starts to fade? Lol nope. "Sorry, now im invulnerable, have unlimited chakra, am 20x better than you in every way AND I have full free will. Here, I wont even kick your ass on screen, they get to see your beaten bloody carcasses as a flashback, thats how much you suck compared to me."

[Kato]

Spoiler

Show

So, instead of "we need to use teamwork" we get Sakura showing intelligence even lower than Naruto (and thus getting stabbed and then rescued, because ovaries etc), Sasuke assuming he can make giant falling rocks less deadly by cutting them into more, smaller rocks, and finally... the eyegina. Okay, it's probably not Kishi's fault but Evangelion (so, I guess Anno is to blame?) but whenever I see a third eye, especially in manga I can't help thinking of it...

Chapter disappointment: 9/10