Civ 5: GMR part 4 - Needs salt!

[OrcusMcP]

Spoiler: To Morocco

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Sorry for asking to chat and then leaving you hanging. The New India Empire is located above Rome, if you're interested in paying us a visit.

The reason I wanted to get in touch with you is because my forces are currently engaged with barbarians just north of the Roman capital. I noticed your concern with Roman passing nearby your lands and thought it might help if my troops leave the barbarians for Rome to deal with, to occupy their troops for a while.

Please let me know what you think.

Spoiler: India

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Greetings! I currently do not have any forces in place to come visit you at present, but I am to the south-west of Rome.

And while our dealings with Rome have been tense thus far, due to our proximity and their legendary prowess in battle, they have been fair. Your offer to leave the barbarians alone is acceptable, but I still fear that Rome will turn their legions and ballistas on one of us sooner or later. We should meet as soon as we are able and discuss more formal friendship.

Spoiler: Persia

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Salaam al-Laikum, mighty Darius! The people of Morocco greet you warmly!

[thirsting]

Spoiler: To Spectators - Turn 60

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Score! Oracle was the only early game wonder I really, really wanted, as I've spread my social policy points thin between Tradition and Piety. Everyone else I've met seems to have gone Liberty exclusively. (I just learned you can view everyone's policies and wonders and some other info in diplomacy panel.) Great Wall would be sweet too, but I think there's no way someone won't beat me to it.


Known world according to Byzantine cartographers. To get some sense of scale; there's six or seven tiles between my two cities (North-East corner). I'd estimate there's at least four times more land area yet to be found. Exploration is difficult though, so many barbarians everywhere. There'll be a third city slightly to the south next turn. I've managed to get them all by rivers, which later on means extra gold from trading.



Getting religion and my first wonder seems to have pushed my score all the way up to the top. This is not good, I was planning on being the unnoticeable small guy who no one finds threatening. Oh well..

[banthesun]

Spoiler: To Morocco

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My forces are currently needed to defend our city state allies from barbarians, but we'll send scouts to meet up with you as soon as possible.

[OrcusMcP]

The unveiling of the Consular Pyramids was a joyous event, both for al-Mansur and all the peoples of Morocco. The wealth and prosperity of Marrakesh along with the natural adventurous spirit of the Moroccans had led to the founding of the frontier cities of Fez, Casablanca, and Rabat, but now more of the citizens were preparing for an explosion of infrastructure. If the Consul could commission a Wonder of this magnitude, what else might be in store?

[thirsting]

Spoiler: To Roman scouting party / Rome

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Why are you people lurking in and around our lands? Who are you, and where do you come from? Know that the Byzantine Empire has nothing but Warmth to offer to outsiders, but it is up to you whether this Warmth is of the friendly, inspiring or the searing variety.

~ Byzantine Representative

Spoiler: To Carthago

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Dear neighbours! We have a bold offer, just for you, and we wish you carefully consider our proposal before outright rejecting it with a kneejerk reaction. Think of all the trading opportunities that would rise if we traded the ownership of two of our lesser cities! We are willing to offer Citrushills in exchange for one of your cities around the great Carthagean Sea.

Citrushills, as the name implies, offers a great bounty of fruit, both oranges and bananas, as well as quite a promising spot for an iron mine. It also is located conveniently right along the long Citrusriver, making trading that much easier and profitable.

And yes, this is a serious proposal. This agreement, if realized, would most profoundly affect our relationships, strengthening the friendship between our two empires and perhaps better shield us against the agressive forces of this dangerous world.

Empress eagerly awaits your response.

~ On behalf of the Byzantine Empire and our dear Warmth radiating Empress

Spoiler: Artist's impression of Citrushill and illustration of all it's natural resources embedded into the map

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[The_Snark]

Spoiler: To Byzantium

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Your offer is intriguing! Queen Dido the Radical would like to make it clear that she totally approves of strong friendships and trade opportunities.

That said, we have doubts about this particular offer. Our people traditionally live by the sea, and we are hesitant about the prospect of moving so far inland. (Rivers are nice, but it's just not the same.) Furthermore, we aren't sure that a fair exchange is possible at this time - our newest city is located in a position of strategic importance to our empire, and our other two lesser cities are at present somewhat larger and more promising than Citrushill appears to be.

We appreciate the logic of your offer in a general sense, however. An ideal trading city (from our point of view) would be placed along the coast, not too close to the others' cities, but within cargo ship distance. The northern shores of the Carthaginian Inner Sea are not yet completely settled, and while the Queen does have plans to build cities there eventually, we are open to the possibility of foreign settlement there - somewhat closer than ideal, perhaps, but a possibility nonetheless. Our navy is currently scouting the nearby coastland and will report if we discover other suitable locations. Regrettably, our scouts have yet to reach your lands, so we cannot search for favorable spots near your borders - please let us know if you find a suitable location you would be willing to cede to us.

We look forward to future collaboration and co-planning.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Byzantium:

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You are from Constantinople, then? The grand capital of the East, the lost city of the Empire? Hail brothers, we come from Rome, far to your south. We would like to send a diplomat to your city, to better rekindle the bonds once held between our kingdoms.

[thirsting]

Spoiler: To Carthago

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Empress... she ... just kept staring, face void of any expression, when told you did not immeditialy accept her plan as is. I dare not quess her emotions about the situation.

But otherwise, on behalf of the Byzantine Empire, let me assure that your friendly, co-operational intentions are encouraging. Let us indeed see where this friendship between our nations leads to in the future.

- Byzantine Representative

Spoiler: To Rome

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We do not understand where these rumours of our two nations' shared past come from. Those same rumours have been circulating for some time now, repeated by representatives of some other states as well. We deny any such connection though. Byzantines have always been their own people.

If you are here to initiate trade connections, we can talk, but otherwise... no lollygagging around our borders.

- Byzantine Representative

[OrcusMcP]

Spoiler: To India

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I am building a new scout to meet you officially. Rome has been quiet to me, and I have seen no troops. He may be continuing to have barbarian trouble to his south, because I am having trouble to my east.

Spoiler: To Carthage

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I see you have built a city on the coast, and I will be happy to have new trading partners. Should we possibly set up military checkpoints(like, we each send a warrior/archer) along the coast to ensure no pirates spawn?

[banthesun]

Spoiler: To Morocco

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I've cleared up the barbarians in my territory, and I'm sending my archers down towards the encampment Belgrade has targeted. Perhaps Belgrade should be the meeting point for our two empires.

A few turns prior, Ceasar approached us wishing to sell his salt surplus to help pay for his army. We reached an agreement to trade truffles for his salt, but the last I'd seen his army upkeep was still crippling his civilization. As it is, I think there's little to fear from his military, for at this rate it wont be long before they're woefully ill equiped.

Spoiler: To Byzantium

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Greetings Queen Theodora, the New Indian Empire sends its regards. We are interested in a trade of maps and the possibility of opening discussions of territory, religion, and history.

[thirsting]

Spoiler: To New Indians

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The Byzantine Empire is not interested in trading information with New Indians at this point. The lands around our empire are our greatest asset and wealth, and we are wary of revealing too much to those we do not yet trust.

That said, however, we have already put in motion the plans to initiate trading with your people. The Empress herself expressed her sincere wish you do not oppose these plans. If you prove to be a reliable and at least somewhat valuable trading partner, we might consider other forms of co-operation in the future.

~ Byzantine representative

Spoiler: To Spectators

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I has flamethrower boat (It's a Dromon, which replaces Tireme and is the earliest ranged attack ship in game. Not that useful on Pangaea map, but it's good at keeping my trading vessels safe, as well as frying an occasional barbarian unit near shore)

[Luzahn]

By the decree of Augustus Caesar, Rome wishes to announce its invasion of Moroccan lands. Despite our previous requests, the Moroccan leaders have insisted on settling in Roman territory.

Moroccan citizens are encouraged to cooperate with Roman authorities; those who comply with the laws of Rome shall be granted full and immediate citizenship in the Empire.

[OrcusMcP]

Let it be known to all the lands of the world that the Great Consul, Ahmad al-Mansur, unequivocally denounces this Roman aggression. He calls on all true defenders of liberty, honesty and truth to sever ties with Rome.

We have only ever been honest and fair in our dealings. That Rome sees land that is rightfully and naturally a part of Morocco as their own speaks to their intentions to all of their neighbours.

All is as God wills it, and Inshallah, we shall be victorious.

Spoiler: Spectators

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Curses. I had a feeling this would happen. It happened later than I expected, so I may have gotten complacent. I'm not completely defenceless, and have a few archers to defend my land, but this will not be a fun war. Legions and Ballistas are mean.

[banthesun]

The New Indian Empire urges, with the strongest possible terms, for Caesar to find a diplomatic solution to the current situation. While it is clear that the lands around the Roman Empire are densely populated, it is the sincere wish of the NIE that Rome uses its military might to support the sovereignty of its neighbours, rather than to impose its will upon them.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Persian people have no comment on events far outside of the immediate civilised world. They are far too concerned with the current war against the barbarian hordes.

[OrcusMcP]

Ceasar, you have taken Casablanca uncontested with overwhelming force. This city was to be the meeting place for our empires, but not like this. I can only hope your lust has been sated and that no further blood need be spilt.

[Driderman]

To Morocco:
We've never heard of these "Romans" or this "Caesar", are you sure you simply did not misplace your city?

Or perhaps it is The Doom That Comes To All Men which have begun.

[banthesun]

Spoiler: To Everyone

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On the 30th of the previous month, a holy man decended from the lands around Uluru, and through his songs taught us a new creedo. Today, a new religion is born in New Old Dehli, founded on the three principals of Peace, Love, and Understanding. The New Indian Empire has decided to celebrate by declaring this event Year Zero, and we hope the rest of the world will adopt our new calendar and join us in the celebration of our new religion. (Spoiler, you're adopting the new calendar whether you like it or not. )

Spoiler: To Spectators

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Just a turn prior, our data recovery experts announced that we were now officially in the medieval era, so I feel this is the perfect time for an update on how the Surface Reclamation Project is performing. So, glorious backers, relax, try the truffles and wine, and enjoy our demonstration.

Spoiler: The NIE

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Here we see the current extent of the New Indian Empire, containing three major settlements, and our permanant allies M'banza-Kongo.

Spoiler: NIE Cities

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While our two newer settlements, Mumbai and Vijayangara are still in the process of basic development, we can see that New Old Dehli has only continued to grow and improve, and to mark our entry into the medieval era, we have begun the development of the New Old Dehli Party Pyramid, which we hope will improve citizen morale by roughly 50%, with equivelant increases to productivity.

Spoiler: The Borderlands

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Here you can see a map of the borders of NIE territory, occupied by barbarians, primitive settlements, and contested by a nearby empire. Soldiers have been dispatched to clear the barbarian infestations and bring the small settlements into the NIE, but the incursions of the neighbouring empire may require a different tact.

Spoiler: The Byzantine Empire

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Here we see the currently known extent of the land-grabbing Byzantine Empire. Despite our attempts to negotiate mutually benefitial settlements, they have decided to go ahead and settle in lands within our sphere. While presently, no military action is being taken, if they continue to advance towards NIE territory we will be left with no choice but to engage them in battle.

Spoiler: The Southern Lands

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Here we see the southern extent of the territory our scouts have mapped, an unruly land home to warring empires. The highlighted horse plains is where our reports indicate the Morrocan Empire is settled. We have been engaged in unofficial diplomatic comminique with them and have so far developed good relations, so their current engagement with the Roman Empire is of great concern to us. However, we have been prevented from taking any direct action so far.

Spoiler: The Catch

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Our response has been hamstrung by previous back channel communications, however. We had hoped to push the Roman Empire towards a path of peace, but instead it seems they have treated this as a show of weakness, allowing them to invade their neighbour. Our best diplomatic minds are currently working to resolve the situation, but we fear our southern neighbours might have to be considered a write off. (Also, I just noticed Luzahn apparently doesn't have Honor 1 for his Zeus Statue. What's up with that?)

Spoiler: What Lies Ahead

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Currently our researchers are working on developing a way to clear the dense jungles around New Old Dehli, but we are certain that will soon be resolved, leaving us to focus on our next project, the development of a proper education system. Politically, the NIE is focused on the development of the arts. So far, we have not required any of our population pacifation measures, but we feel that implementing the infrastructure to support that now will lead to the best results into the future.

Thank you for your attention, ladies and gentlemen. The New Indian Empire remains strong, and we are certain the Surface Reclamation Project is only going to grow from here.

Glory, Loyalty, Diligence

Spoiler: Bonus

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[Closet_Skeleton]

AD 40, a middle aged scholar walked down the steps of the Great Library. He declared that his name was Charles Dickens and that the birth of a new Persian literature was upon us. His work will be enshrined in the Great Library until the end of time.

[Illven]

Ha. As a spectator let me say that Banthesun's religion founding date is hilarious.

[OrcusMcP]

Spoiler: To Rome

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Congrats, you got me with my pants down. Are there any terms we can come to before I lose more cities?

I truly apologize that my meager resources forced me to encroach on your lands, but you have SO MUCH SALT to your south that what I have can't possibly be worth much to you.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler: To Morocco:

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(OOC) Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much we can use from your resources. Mostly, I was feeling pressured by your rapid expansion.

Of course, now that I've proven willing to go to war, I can't really leave you with many cities left, or else I'll constantly have to worry about an enemy at my back. (OOC)

*Ahem* Of course, Rome is always in need of capable leaders. We would be perfectly willing to keep you on as a governor of Mauretania. Do keep the offer in mind, your advice would be invaluable.

[OrcusMcP]

Spoiler: To Morocco:

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(OOC) Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much we can use from your resources. Mostly, I was feeling pressured by your rapid expansion.

Of course, now that I've proven willing to go to war, I can't really leave you with many cities left, or else I'll constantly have to worry about an enemy at my back. (OOC)

*Ahem* Of course, Rome is always in need of capable leaders. We would be perfectly willing to keep you on as a governor of Mauretania. Do keep the offer in mind, your advice would be invaluable.

Spoiler: To Rome

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OOC: Morocco is fundamentally a defensive trader, but only once I have kasbahs. I'm still at my precarious build-up phase. And I really don't have much in the way of resources. You have permission to look around my tour a few posts ago if you like./OOC

Al-Mansur does not seek war. That so many have suffered already is a travesty. The Great Consul is willing to make any deal that will prevent further loss of life and territory. The Berber peoples are not strangers to overlords, so if we must sacrifice our sovereignty to save our lives, that is a price we are willing to pay.

[The_Snark]

Spoiler: To everyone

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At the urging of her people, Queen Dido the Immortal would like to announce the foundation of the Carthaginian state church!

Sadly, our queen received no divine visitation, nor have any prophets or sages come forth to dispense wisdom; in point of fact, nobody in Carthage has ever witnessed any sign of a higher power's existence, leaving the state frankly rather puzzled as to why her people insist upon bothering with religion. Nonetheless, the people have spoken, and she answers. The faith will focus wholly on worldly affairs, neglecting so-called ‘spiritual’ matters in favor of cold hard cash reality.



The newly-appointed High Executive would like to urge all followers to celebrate this historic event with a day of industriousness and productivity, followed by a day of lavish spending. For further details, consult your local representative to discuss probationary membership (for a very modest fee)!

Spoiler: To spectators

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State of the empire update! I really need to remember to do this more often. To start with, let's revisit the capital:



Nothing really new here; the Colossus is complete, the borders have spread, the population continues to grow.

Here's a look at the new cities...



I'm quite pleased with Hippo Regius; it turns out that two sources of fish (and a Lighthouse) plus two sources of sheep (and a Stable) plus marble (and a Stoneworks), plus a cargo ship to boost early growth, makes for an impressive city - it's nearly as productive as the capital despite being half its size, and it's not small. Its only luxury resource would have eventually fallen within the capital's sphere of influence, but it would've taken a while, and the city itself is worth it. I've just started work on Petra - this is sometimes a contested wonder, but on the other hand the estimated construction time is pretty brief.



My newest city is less impressive, partly because it's new, and partly because the location is unexceptional - there's one iron deposit, which is nice, plus cattle and fish nearby, and not a lot else. The important part is that it gives my other cities access to the ocean - definitely worthwhile. I'll probably see about getting a cargo ship there to try and boost its growth, there are enough hill and forest tiles there that it has some potential once it can work those squares.

And now let's pull back for an overview...



As you can see, I've spread out to cover most of the inland sea I started on. Thanks to Malacca my happiness is doing very well despite the expansion (I just got out of a double-length golden age thanks to finishing Liberty just as I hit my first one) - I plan on settling another city soon, either on the northern edge of the Carthaginian Sea or down on the coast south of that mountain.

Bit of barbarian trouble in the south, but it's under control at the moment. I also founded a religion - I wasn't really planning to, but I had a couple of friendly religious city-states and the map size is slightly bigger than the number of players offered, so it just sort of happened. I have at least one evangelical neighbor, possibly two if the Mayans are close (I haven't seen them in-game but they've sent one message, apparently their scouts visited the place where Utique was before I founded it?), and given that I've founded one of the last religions I don't expect to make a lot of headway converting people, so I picked beliefs with an eye towards short-term benefits. Neither of the beliefs I picked scales well, but I'll get a bit of bonus production off my Markets, and because my founder belief gives a one-time boost for converting rather than maintaining lots of worshipers, I won't really mind if Byzantium or somebody else decides to start proselytizing.

[Driderman]

To spectators:

Spoiler

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Excited for my next turn. Got a Great Engineer from the Calendar just after I get Currency and my capital has a fair amount of desert so I used him to rush Petra. Hopefully I'll get it, I'm going to assume Morocco (being an obvious rival for having a desert city) is otherwise occupied what with his war with Rome. It'll really help me, I may have overextended a bit in my initial rush to settle a lot of cities (and I'm going to settle my 6th soon) so my capital is only a population 6 city but with the bonuses from Petra (and the caravan sending food to my capital from another of my cities) it should really flourish.

[thirsting]

Ehm.. India is showing up as an AI player in game, I even could talk to Gandhi. I wonder if this is a self sorting kind of visual glitch and nothing to worry about? I could revert the turn back to you, banthesun, if you are available now? (India got turn timer -skipped, but it was only little while ago, so..)

[banthesun]

Ah, sorry, sorry! I went away for a day and a half, but didn't set it to vacation mode because I thought I'd be back in time to take my turn. I don't know what the deal with AI India is though...

Edit: I'm gonna be away for about about an hour now, so don't bother reverting unless you think there's a problem

[thirsting]

Alright, leaving it as is.

Spoiler: To Rome

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Byzantine traders have expressed their interest in Roman salts (rumoured to be of extraordinary purity and quality). We have delicious oranges your people would surely find desirable in exchange.

Our dear Empress has expressed concerns though. She has heard rumours of Roman armies conquering smaller nations. She strictly forbids trading of any kind with warmongers.

We do not really care who it is you are warring against or why, but trading can not initiate if hostilities of any kind persist between you and your neighbours. It would be a shame if our peoples were denied this opportunity to expand their dietary variety.

~ Byzantine representative.

[Driderman]

I think I've consistenly observed a "bug" (more like a limitation of the system) where a player Civ who had it's turn taken by the AI will show up as an AI in negotiations etc. until the player has taken a turn himself again. That's probably what you guys are experiencing.

[OrcusMcP]

Spoiler: Spectators

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Things are not looking good for Morocco.

Lost Casablanca, about to lose Fes. Got beat to Petra. I have no realistic way to halt the Roman advance.

I think I may have lost the game.