Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

[Tim Proctor]

I've got 10% done, and I'm saddened... such awesomeness and then a simple mistake. The devil is in the details.

I do want to say that things and concepts are really great, and people did a good job from what I've seen so far. I think it'll be a tight competition.

[sakuuya]

Definitely surprised that there weren't a plethora of crusaders.

I thought of putting together a mother-themed entry in honor of sakuuya, but didn't end up with anything I was happy with. It was going to be a Mother Cyst build that channeled necrotic cysts into people to plant her babies. This was the best option I'd ended up with, but I wasn't really interested enough in the build to turn it into a full entry:

Spoiler

Show

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	Beguiler 1	+0	+0	+0	+2	Balance 4 ranks, bluff 4 ranks, concentration 4 ranks, diplomacy 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, sleight of hand 4 ranks, spellcraft 4 ranks, spot 4 ranks, tumble 4 ranks	Earth Sense, Mother Cyst	Armored mage, trapfinding
2nd	Beguiler 2	+1	+0	+0	+3	Balance 5 ranks, bluff 5 ranks, concentration 5 ranks, diplomacy 5 ranks, forgery 1 rank, knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, sleight of hand 5 ranks, spellcraft 5 ranks, spot 5 ranks, tumble 5 ranks		Cloaked casting (+1 DC), surprise casting
3rd	Beguiler 3	+1	+1	+1	+3	Bluff 6 ranks, concentration 6 ranks, diplomacy 6 ranks, disguise 2 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, sleight of hand 6 ranks, spellcraft 6 ranks, spot 6 ranks, tumble 6 ranks	Heighten Spell	Advanced learning (distract assailant)
4th	Beguiler 4	+2	+1	+1	+4	Bluff 7 ranks, concentration 7 ranks, diplomacy 7 ranks, disguise 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 7 ranks, sleight of hand 7 ranks, spellcraft 7 ranks, spot 7 ranks, tumble 7 ranks
5th	Beguiler 5	+2	+1	+1	+4	Bluff 8 ranks, concentration 8 ranks, diplomacy 8 ranks, disguise 6 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, sleight of hand 8 ranks, spellcraft 8 ranks, spot 8 ranks, tumble 8 ranks	Silent Spell
6th	Beguiler 6	+3	+2	+2	+5	Bluff 9 ranks, concentration 9 ranks, diplomacy 9 ranks, disguise 8 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, sleight of hand 9 ranks, spellcraft 9 ranks, spot 9 ranks, tumble 9 ranks	Practiced Spellcaster	Surprise casting (move action)
7th	Beguiler 7	+3	+2	+2	+6	Bluff 10 ranks, concentration 10 ranks, diplomacy 10 ranks, disguise 10 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks, sleight of hand 10 ranks, spellcraft 10 ranks, spot 10 ranks, tumble 10 ranks		Advanced learning (phantasmal strangler)
8th	Beguiler 8	+4	+2	+2	+6	Bluff 11 ranks, concentration 11 ranks, diplomacy 11 ranks, disguise 11 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 11 ranks, sleight of hand 11 ranks, spellcraft 11 ranks, spot 11 ranks, tumble 11 ranks, Conceal Spellcasting skill trick		Cloaked casting (+2 to overcome SR)
9th	Chaotician 1	+5	+2	+4	+6	Bluff 12 ranks, concentration 11.5 ranks, diplomacy 12 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 12 ranks, sleight of hand 12 ranks, spot 12 ranks, Mosquito's Bite skill trick	Eldritch Corruption	Chaotic contagion, scofflaw
10th	Spellsword 1	+6/+1	+4	+4	+8	Bluff 13 ranks, concentration 12.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 13 ranks, spellcraft 12 ranks		Ignore spell failure 10%
11th	Spellsword 2	+7/+2	+5	+4	+9	Bluff 14 ranks, concentration 13.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 14 ranks, spellcraft 14 ranks	Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)	Bonus feat
12th	Spellsword 3	+8/+3	+5	+5	+9	Bluff 15 ranks, concentration 14.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 15 ranks, spellcraft 15 ranks	Earth Spell	Ignore spell failure 15%
13th	Spellsword 4	+9/+4	+6	+5	+10	Bluff 16 ranks, concentration 15.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 16 ranks, spellcraft 16 ranks		Channel spell 3/day
14th	Spellsword 5	+10/+5	+6	+5	+10	Bluff 17 ranks, concentration 16.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 17 ranks, spellcraft 17 ranks		Ignore spell failure 20%
15th	Spellsword 6	+11/+6/+1	+7	+6	+11	Bluff 18 ranks, concentration 17.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 18 ranks, spellcraft 18 ranks	Extra Slot	Channel spell 4/day
16th	Spellsword 7	+12/+7/+2	+7	+6	+11	Bluff 19 ranks, concentration 18.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 19 ranks, spellcraft 19 ranks, tumble 11.5 ranks		Ignore spell failure 25%
17th	Spellsword 8	+13/+8/+3	+8	+6	+12	Bluff 20 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 20 ranks, spellcraft 20 ranks, Acrobatic Backstab skill trick		Channel spell 5/day
18th	Spellsword 9	+14/+9/+4	+8	+7	+12	Bluff 21 ranks, concentration 20.5 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 21 ranks, spellcraft 21 ranks	Extra Slot	Ignore spell failure 30%
19th	Spellsword 10	+15/+10/+5	+9	+7	+12	Bluff 22 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 22 ranks, spellcraft 22 ranks, Second Impression skill trick		Multiple channel spell
20th	Chaotician 2	+16/+11/+6/+1	+9	+8	+12	Bluff 23 ranks, concentration 23 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 23 ranks, spellcraft 23 ranks, Spot the Weak Point skill trick		Anarchic grace 1/day

Spoiler: Spellcasting

Show

Spells per Day

Level	0lvl	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th
1st	5	3	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
2nd	6	4	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
3rd	6	5	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
4th	6	6	3	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
5th	6	6	4	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
6th	6	6	5	3	-	-	-	-	-	-
7th	6	6	6	4	-	-	-	-	-	-
8th	6	6	6	5	3	-	-	-	-	-
9th	6	6	6	5	3	-	-	-	-	-
10th	6	6	6	6	4	-	-	-	-	-
11th	6	6	6	6	4	-	-	-	-	-
12th	6	6	6	6	5	3	-	-	-	-
13th	6	6	6	6	5	3	-	-	-	-
14th	6	6	6	6	6	4	-	-	-	-
15th	6	6	6	6	6	4	-	1*	-	-
16th	6	6	6	6	6	5	3	1*	-	-
17th	6	6	6	6	6	5	3	1*	-	-
18th	6	6	6	6	6	6	4	1*	-	1*
19th	6	6	6	6	6	6	4	1*	-	1*
20th	6	6	6	6	6	6	4	1*	-	1*

*Bonus spell slot from Extra Slot.

Final build was Beguiler 8/Chaotician 2/Spellsword 10. Basically, it used Mosquito's Bite and various beguiler abilities to attack and channel a cyst into people without them even noticing, and Eldritch Corruption shenanigans to piggyback up to 9th-level spells. I mean, after all, what's the point of planting cysts in people if you can't make them erupt into undead cyst-babies one day?

(Um, I may have a weird idea of motherhood. Don't tell my wife.)

I may also have a weird idea of motherhood, because I am super-honored that you made this for me. I don't think I'm allowed to vote for an unfinished, unsubmitted build for Honorable Mention, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if I could. And best wishes for your upcoming child!

[Ingus]

I hope it doesn't come off as humiliating

It doesn't.
I was just trying to be funny in your line of puns, but I had not the time, and the wits, to be funny.
Sorry for the miunderstanding and best wishes for your baby.

[WhamBamSam]

Definitely surprised that there weren't a plethora of crusaders.

I thought of putting together a mother-themed entry in honor of sakuuya, but didn't end up with anything I was happy with. It was going to be a Mother Cyst build that channeled necrotic cysts into people to plant her babies. This was the best option I'd ended up with, but I wasn't really interested enough in the build to turn it into a full entry:

snip

Final build was Beguiler 8/Chaotician 2/Spellsword 10. Basically, it used Mosquito's Bite and various beguiler abilities to attack and channel a cyst into people without them even noticing, and Eldritch Corruption shenanigans to piggyback up to 9th-level spells. I mean, after all, what's the point of planting cysts in people if you can't make them erupt into undead cyst-babies one day?

(Um, I may have a weird idea of motherhood. Don't tell my wife.)

That's awesome, though making stealth impregnations then slipping away strikes me as more of a "deadbeat dad" build than a "creepy mother" build.

Anyway, even if that one didn't pan out to your satisfaction, if I'm right about which build is yours, you got something else to work very nicely.

Just didn't get the write up done in time ><

Spoiler: Meepo, Mystra's Hunter

Show

Kobold, LN, Ranger 7/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Spellsword

snip

I don't think SotAO is enough to make Ranger an arcane spellcasting class. It's somewhat unclear if the spells it grants are even arcane (though that's the less cheesy interpretation, what with DMM being a thing and all).

[KrimsonNekros]

I don't think SotAO is enough to make Ranger an arcane spellcasting class. It's somewhat unclear if the spells it grants are even arcane (though that's the less cheesy interpretation, what with DMM being a thing and all).

I actually cleared it with the chair since I wasn't sure. He said that since it wasn't specified, they defaulted to being arcane.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Depending on the SI, that might be very generous.

Stop, you're making me blush

I actually cleared it with the chair since I wasn't sure. He said that since it wasn't specified, they defaulted to being arcane.

Indeed, I read through the and looked up Curmudgeon's musings on the feat and came to the same conclusion as he did - that the prepped wizard spells still count as arcane.

[OMG PONIES]

I may also have a weird idea of motherhood, because I am super-honored that you made this for me. I don't think I'm allowed to vote for an unfinished, unsubmitted build for Honorable Mention, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if I could. And best wishes for your upcoming child!

Well, if your muse appreciates your art, it means you're a success! Also, I too buck tradition and vote Piggy's build for Honorable Mention. Too delightfully bizarre not to.

That's awesome, though making stealth impregnations then slipping away strikes me as more of a "deadbeat dad" build than a "creepy mother" build.

Forsooth!

Anyway, even if that one didn't pan out to your satisfaction, if I'm right about which build is yours, you got something else to work very nicely.

Yeah, I think I've picked out Piggy's as well and I'm impressed as always.

[Kazudo]

I have apparently, despite reading and meditating upon the mysteries of the First Fifty, never picked up the notion behind making an "interesting, original, powerful, elegant" build.

I feel like I'm not as creative as I give myself credit for. Maybe I just need to judge from now on and leave the building to the rockstars.

[KrimsonNekros]

I have apparently, despite reading and meditating upon the mysteries of the First Fifty, never picked up the notion behind making an "interesting, original, powerful, elegant" build.

I feel like I'm not as creative as I give myself credit for. Maybe I just need to judge from now on and leave the building to the rockstars.

Don't get discouraged! I've got issues with power normally, but I still haven't given up on getting a placing build!

[Ikeren]

8 builds done, scores ranging from 9.5 to 15.5 thus far. Finding this very interesting.

[Tim Proctor]

8 builds done, scores ranging from 9.5 to 15.5 thus far. Finding this very interesting.

I'm 1/2 way behind you with 5 done. I don't score until I have them all done, but I have a good idea on where they're going to end up.

Is the judging deadline pushed back to accommodate the late reveal?

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm 1/2 way behind you with 5 done. I don't score until I have them all done, but I have a good idea on where they're going to end up.

Is the judging deadline pushed back to accommodate the late reveal?

That's... a valid point, actually. I think that I only got 2 (maybe 3) "bonus" entries due to the late reveal, but do the honorable judges feel as if they need more time?

[WhamBamSam]

That's... a valid point, actually. I think that I only got 2 (maybe 3) "bonus" entries due to the late reveal, but do the honorable judges feel as if they need more time?

I think he meant that the judging deadline is currently listed as this Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks after the reveal as normal.

[Tim Proctor]

That's... a valid point, actually. I think that I only got 2 (maybe 3) "bonus" entries due to the late reveal, but do the honorable judges feel as if they need more time?

I think he meant that the judging deadline is currently listed as this Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks after the reveal as normal.

WhamBamSam is right, I mean it would be a real ball-buster for me to finish in 2-days and leave time for disputes.

[Rama]

I think he meant that the judging deadline is currently listed as this Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks after the reveal as normal.

Agreed, as long as the deadline is updated for the updated reveal it should be fine for me.

[The Viscount]

I have apparently, despite reading and meditating upon the mysteries of the First Fifty, never picked up the notion behind making an "interesting, original, powerful, elegant" build.

I feel like I'm not as creative as I give myself credit for. Maybe I just need to judge from now on and leave the building to the rockstars.

As a relatively new competitor I think I've only ever built builds with usually about 2 of these. Even my medaling builds probably had 3 at best, so while these are certainly the goals we strive for our reach will always exceed our grasp, with the exception of those rare builds that score perfect 20s. It takes several rounds of cooking to get a real grasp of how it all works, and the best learning is by doing.

[Kuulvheysoon]

WhamBamSam is right, I mean it would be a real ball-buster for me to finish in 2-days and leave time for disputes.

Jeez, you can't finish in that amount of time? What kind of judge are you?

I think he meant that the judging deadline is currently listed as this Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks after the reveal as normal.

Yeah, for some reason I just assumed that it was two weeks after, without really thinking about the implications of that. Two weeks, as normal, folks.

[Ingus]

I have apparently, despite reading and meditating upon the mysteries of the First Fifty, never picked up the notion behind making an "interesting, original, powerful, elegant" build.

There is no secret in it, at least of my knowledge.
I had my best builds out without thinking to judges. I usually try to have fun.

Besides, being judge is not a bad idea: I did once and I realized how complicate it is and what can impress a judge - or the small extra work that don't force a judge to go roaming from handbook to handbook or figuring out obscure PrC qualifications and so on.
It may be indeed a good idea to give a shot as judge.
But not because you give up contest

[Piggy Knowles]

I may also have a weird idea of motherhood, because I am super-honored that you made this for me. I don't think I'm allowed to vote for an unfinished, unsubmitted build for Honorable Mention, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if I could. And best wishes for your upcoming child!

Thanks, you too! And I'm glad you liked the build. I had a lot of fun making it, even if I didn't quite have it in me to submit a second entry.

Well, if your muse appreciates your art, it means you're a success! Also, I too buck tradition and vote Piggy's build for Honorable Mention. Too delightfully bizarre not to.

I appreciate the compliment, but I'd prefer if any HM votes you cast go to a build that actually was able to enter on time. There are a lot of cool builds this round that did some neat things, and I'd hate to see one of them miss out on HM because of an incomplete, unentered entry.

[WhamBamSam]

As a relatively new competitor I think I've only ever built builds with usually about 2 of these. Even my medaling builds probably had 3 at best, so while these are certainly the goals we strive for our reach will always exceed our grasp, with the exception of those rare builds that score perfect 20s. It takes several rounds of cooking to get a real grasp of how it all works, and the best learning is by doing.

Shenanigans. Ponies' spreadsheet tells me that your gold medal entry from the Geomancer round has the second highest average score of any entry ever. It looks like scores were pretty high across the board that round, but still. I see through your feigned modesty. You're trying to lure the rest of us into a false sense of security.

There is no secret in it, at least of my knowledge.
I had my best builds out without thinking to judges. I usually try to have fun.

Besides, being judge is not a bad idea: I did once and I realized how complicate it is and what can impress a judge - or the small extra work that don't force a judge to go roaming from handbook to handbook or figuring out obscure PrC qualifications and so on.
It may be indeed a good idea to give a shot as judge.
But not because you give up contest

I'd agree with this. I didn't think my first medaling entry would do that well when I submitted it, but I liked it pretty well so I submitted it. It outperformed my expectations considerably.

Formatting certainly helps. I've looked at entries as a judge that were just a table and no explanation. Making the judge guess where you're going with something is a good way to lose points.

My best advice is to try to use every part of the buffalo. I usually look at the ingredient, try to design an ininteresting combo with one of its abilities, then see if a build supporting that combo can also work in the other things the class offers in interesting ways until I come up with a complete stub. It's easier with something like Spellsword which really only has one signature ability to optimize around.

[Kazudo]

At any rate, my entry hiatus is going to have to persist until next episode. Starting up a new E6 game, having to decide whether to run a game at a weekly church ministry as well, being management at a store, three kids, and for some reason I thought about starting a webcomic.

But next time for sure.

[The Viscount]

Shenanigans. Ponies' spreadsheet tells me that your gold medal entry from the Geomancer round has the second highest average score of any entry ever. It looks like scores were pretty high across the board that round, but still. I see through your feigned modesty. You're trying to lure the rest of us into a false sense of security.

While this is true, Geomancer had only 1 judge, and I still wouldn't say it's particularly original. It's also quite different in scoring from my other builds. But I shall rise again in full glory!

[sideswipe]

It's easier with something like Spellsword which really only has one signature ability to optimize around.

yep, this is why i chose this round (after wondering about entering for the last couple) to submit a build. as my first build i would be happy with a reasonable score that keeps up with the rest of the builds. not coming last and getting a "participant" ribbon would be great.

[Biotroll]

Wish I had more time to read through the builds. They seem nice. My first idea was dread necromancer/spellsword/bone knight using southern magician to enter bone knight for proficiencies and some more nice undead themed abilities. Unfortunately I thought dread necro had 3/4 bab instead of 1/2 so most of my plans failed when I get LM back home to check on it. I could do dread necro 8/bone knight 2 (3)/spellsword 10 (9) but decided against it in the end, so my arcane bone knight idea failed. My second idea was kind of hasty and it was goliath barbarian 1/battle sorceror 4/rage mage 5/spellsword 9 (10 with LA buyoff). Didn't have enough time to think it through but the goal was to make it comparable to suel arcanamach but with more flavor and getting spells earlier. I had little time to make it as it seemed fine, but spells known seemed like a big part of the build as he had only so few of them and I just couldn't go through them to pick the best for him.

[Ingus]

@Kazudo: playing and performing the fine art of storytelling are pretty good reasons, though :)

@Bioware: uhm... Southern Magician... I think the weak part of your build resides on this Trick. Else, it would have been a truly unexpected one, and with power sauce too!

[Biotroll]

I expected a hit for souther magician, but otherwise thought it would be good. Using the ASF reducers to actualy use the bone armor and be able to channel harm and such. I just wanted to get 16 bab, which I was not able to do.

[Tim Proctor]

I have 16 done, should have them up today.

I will say that from the ones I've gone through, I am surprised that no one went the Whirlwind Attack, or War Hulk, Hulking Hurler route. I really expected to see a lot more of the 'get channel spell to effect a lot of people' mechanics.

[OMG PONIES]

I have 16 done, should have them up today.

I will say that from the ones I've gone through, I am surprised that no one went the Whirlwind Attack, or War Hulk, Hulking Hurler route. I really expected to see a lot more of the 'get channel spell to effect a lot of people' mechanics.

Whirlwind Attack takes up a full attack (making channeling in the same round tricky), and even then you're making separate attacks against each opponent so your channeled spell would only go off on the first hit. War Hulk's mighty swing is also a full-round action until 4th level, but the bigger problem with that route is that their "No Time to Think" automatically disqualifies them from Spellsword. Hulking Hurler (or honestly just taking the Throw Anything feat) was an interesting path, though.

[Sian]

I considered twisting a War Mind 5 into it (for sweeping strike) but it felt rather unelegant

[Tim Proctor]

Whirlwind Attack takes up a full attack (making channeling in the same round tricky), and even then you're making separate attacks against each opponent so your channeled spell would only go off on the first hit. War Hulk's mighty swing is also a full-round action until 4th level, but the bigger problem with that route is that their "No Time to Think" automatically disqualifies them from Spellsword. Hulking Hurler (or honestly just taking the Throw Anything feat) was an interesting path, though.

When I read Whirlwind attack I read " instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach", roll once hit all that apply, since it hits them simultaneously. Being able to store the spell in the weapon for hours makes it work with full-attack actions without much issue. As far as no-time to think I imagined it being the Hulk mode, you polymorph large take War Hulk and when the spell wears out you can cast again. I'm just surprised that no one did it, I'd still dock them for questionable rule.