My Little Pony LXXXI: All Of These Ponies Are Crazy!

[Aotrs Commander]

Lovecraft was basically all about "Man is essentially insignificant and against such things, everything is pretty pointless" whereas pony is "Friendship is so powerful it can shoot lasers."

The two are pretty much mutually exclusive concepts. You can bring in Lovecraftian-ish monsters (see: Do Not Serve These Ponies for example)... But you can't make MLP Lovecraftian horror and have it still true to the show's themes - because they are pretty much impossible to tie together. You can't have "you can never win" and "friendship always wins" because they're y'know, just not compatible.

[Silverraptor]

My Little Pony: Friendship is magic.

[SiuiS]

Oh no, Muse is responding logically to responses and isn't being an asshat about it.

this guy, everytime I pointed ut something from FiM canon that wouldn't allow for Lovecraft style Cosmic horror, he's complete ignore my argument by calling everything I said "Verses Thread Logic".

Ah. Yeah, those folks happen.

I'm throwing in my argument against this, because this annoys me.

Spoiler:

Show

It's actually hilariously easy to tie in the Cthulhu Mythos into the ponyverse, with the proper mindset, on multiple levels. Besides Discord being a genuine unnatural, reality-shaping being that toys with ponies because it can, the Everfree Forest is a unnatural deathtrap that operates on laws utterly unnatural to ponies and there's at least one mysteriously vanishing city-empire. Daring Doo actually opened up a nice big way for old civilizations to be explored, in a conveniently pulpy fashion.

Daring Doo and the Plateau of Peng? Daring Doo and the Soapstone Statue? Daring Doo and the Thing On The Doorstep?

Regardless, one could literally just go back to the older generations and match up names of various nastiest with old villains. The Smooze is basically a big ol' shoggoth, Midnight Castle's synopsis consists of a unnatural chimerical creature with a magical organ kidnapping innocent villagers and transforming them into squamous beasts. Grogar was a necromancer who dwelled within a city staffed with lizard-men, which got temporally shifted generations ago. The jokes about Seaponies and places called Hoofsmouth write themselves.

You are focusing primarily on the idea that the addition of some lovecraftian elements automatically requires the story to become a Cosmic Horror Story, which is a folly. One can't say that ponies are not important in the world, if one goes with this view; the exact opposite is perfectly applicable. With ponies controlling such fundamental aspects of the world, it's a matter of asking if the rest of the world is managed in a similar fashion or if other species, like donkeys and zebras and all the rest, are ultimately irrelevant to the state of the world.



On her gilded throne, in the lands where the natural order has long since died under the comforting hooves of her subjects, the Sun holds court with those who once moved the stars. Such it has been for a thousand years, and such it will be until the stars aid in her escape.

None of that is Lovecraftian. It's just vaguely surreal hints of ooh, spooky, and each can be beaten quite literally by laughter.

sigh..you try to raise them right and then they go so wrong.....

Ha!

[Kd7sov]

sigh..you try to raise them right and then they go so wrong.....

Hey, at least it's the same VA. If she'd gone for, say, Rarity or Pinkie instead...

(I find it interesting to note that while Fluttershy is my favorite pony, Ashleigh Ball is my favorite pony voice. Part of that may be because the gap between first and sixth is less than the gap between second-or-third (AJ and Twilight basically share those slots) and fourth.)

[DigoDragon]

Aren't those two a little young for romantic preening?

Don't read too deeply into it.
Sometimes an apple is just an apple. XD

My Little Pony: Friendship is magic.

That was pretty well done.

[Rater202]

Don't read too deeply into it.
Sometimes an apple is just an apple. XD.

Except that Picture was labeled Scootabelle, which is the (un)official portmanteau couple name for SweetiexScoots shipping.

Not saying anythings wrong with that, they're like 4 or five on my top ten ship list, but aren't they too young for anything other than cuddles and experimental kissing?

[DigoDragon]

The Grrreat and Muffinful Trixie!!

Spoiler

Show

"Now watch as Trixie's assistant will make these muffins... disappear!"

Not saying anythings wrong with that, they're like 4 or five on my top ten ship list, but aren't they too young for anything other than cuddles and experimental kissing?

I assumed Sweetie NOM'd Scoots' wing to get her attention. Innocent playing.

[MLai]

That's true, but it's not what makes it so anti-MLP. Despite all of the apocalypse stuff you mentioned, friendship (or love) has always been a solution to save the day. But in this case it isn't. It's a permanent sacrifice that's only a short term solution, and everypony knows it. Even Fallout Equestria understood that, as one of the bigger themes was the strength of friendship even in the Wasteland, or that one of the root causes of the disaster was the nation of Equestria turning away from friendship in a time of war. This situation we got the slow despair of watching ponies sacrificing themselves, until out of nowhere Celestia and Luna ascend and fix everything. Why? Because they are super special.

Couple of things:

(1) The sisters are super special. Watching the 1st 5 minutes of S01E01 immediately tells you that. Looking at them immediately tells you that. No way around it, that's the entrance fee.
(2) Yes Equestria is all about friendship being the ultimate power. Who made it that way? Celestia. The tree may exist, but it was Celestia who discovered it, had an inspiration, and then tirelessly molded ponydom to use the tree's metaphysical values as an intrinsic societal strength. That is all on her, not despite of her. She's the Founding Mother of the MLP values you love so much. Credit where it's due.
(3) Given the above, how can you say that Celestia didn't work hard to become "super special"? She's simply a different heroic archetype compared to Twilight, dealing with a different tier of problems existing on a completely different time scale. Problems that her physical asskicking powers aren't really relevant for. Celestia is one that adults can appreciate more; she's more of a Leto III/ Ender Wiggin.

[Forum Explorer]

Couple of things:

(1) The sisters are super special. Watching the 1st 5 minutes of S01E01 immediately tells you that. Looking at them immediately tells you that. No way around it, that's the entrance fee.
(2) Yes Equestria is all about friendship being the ultimate power. Who made it that way? Celestia. The tree may exist, but it was Celestia who discovered it, had an inspiration, and then tirelessly molded ponydom to use the tree's metaphysical values as an intrinsic societal strength. That is all on her, not despite of her. She's the Founding Mother of the MLP values you love so much. Credit where it's due.
(3) Given the above, how can you say that Celestia didn't work hard to become "super special"? She's simply a different heroic archetype compared to Twilight, dealing with a different tier of problems existing on a completely different time scale. Problems that her physical asskicking powers aren't really relevant for. Celestia is one that adults can appreciate more; she's more of a Leto III/ Ender Wiggin.

1. As my extended argument with Rater revealed, I'm not concerned so much about the specialness, but if she earned it or not. I'm fine with Celestia being a powerful alicorn in the future. I'm even fine with her being born an alicorn. But I'm not fine with her solving a major problem because she was born an alicorn. (Note: If there wasn't a major problem (IE, Celestia and Luna just freed up a lot of unicorns to do other work/have fun) then I'm fine with her solving it because she was born an alicorn)

2. That is completely incorrect. Friendships power wasn't discovered by her, but by Clover the Clever and Co when they defeated the windigos. At that point, ponies were already moving towards a friendship based society with the MLP values I love so much. Did she contribute to it? Oh yes, incredibly. But keep your facts straight, friendship was already a powerful value/force by the time she was born.

On a side note, even if she had been the one to discover friendship's power, that wouldn't change anything. It's like discovering gravity. Gravity's rules and laws didn't not exist before they were discovered, it acted the same way as it did now. In Equestria, the power of friendship always existed. Celestia and Luna were the ones to discover (and weaponize) the Elements of Harmony. Which also has nothing to do with how Equestria's society turned out. We know they were already on that path, and Celestia almost certainly supported them. But the level of her involvement is unknown.

On that note, it's worth noting that the set up of the three tribes as established in Hearth's Warming is a perfect example of Harmony. All three tribes have an important job, but if they aren't working in harmony everything starts to go wrong. No tribe can survive on it's own, and no tribe can do the other's job. If that's not proof of the settings fundamental basis in harmony and friendship from the very beginning, then I don't think I'll be able to prove it to you at all. Of course the new handbook completely ruins that set up by having the unicorns raising the sun require a permanent sacrifice of their magic. Which violates the three tribes being able to live in harmony. For long anyways.

3. I have nothing against present day Celestia. Or even her defeat of Nightmare Moon, or Discord. My problem is if she solved the unicorn sacrifice problem, by it simply being her cutie mark moment and she raised the sun through sheer power. (Also it's worth noting that this criticism also applies to Luna. It's just easier to say only one of them) Not only does the problem not fit the sort of themes the show uses, but it's solution is equally as far away from said themes. It wasn't solved through an understanding of friendship or some other equally positive emotion like love or even an epic quest of discovery, but simply because Celestia was super special.

So overall I'm saying that the problem it created was 'unrealistic' and poorly handled. The solution to said problem was just as poorly written. Overall it was complete crap. I will be dismayed if the show confirms that that's how things were handled.

[Madcrafter]

Lovecraft was basically all about "Man is essentially insignificant and against such things, everything is pretty pointless" whereas pony is "Friendship is so powerful it can shoot lasers."

The two are pretty much mutually exclusive concepts. You can bring in Lovecraftian-ish monsters (see: Do Not Serve These Ponies for example)... But you can't make MLP Lovecraftian horror and have it still true to the show's themes - because they are pretty much impossible to tie together. You can't have "you can never win" and "friendship always wins" because they're y'know, just not compatible.

Not as the focus, but I think you could fit it into a pony story. It's a matter of scaling up and pushing it to the background, then charging a quarter for a peek. I think you're correct that as a direct "antagonistic" force, it doesn't really fit.

Although I do think it's also a matter of general attitude towards the show, how sugarbowl-ish one wants to see it. I'm reminded of the "The stars will aid in her escape" line; there is a wide range of ways to interpret that. Similarly with some of the 4th wall antics.

[Mystic Muse]

Okay, guys? My computer is going funky and ate the write-up I had all written down, and it's late and I'm tired, so I'll explain both villains tomorrow in proper detail.

The one I initially asked the question about: Basically, the incarnation of death itself. She would actually only be killing one person in the story, who is an original character anyway, who almost inarguably deserves it.

The villain being irredeemable I feel is a pretty important detail, because by the time Celestia would be confronting her, she wouldn't actually be under the impression anything she did was wrong. And, in my personal view, it's kind of impossible to get redemption for an action you don't regret/feel any remorse for.

Really, she's a hard character for me to properly sum up with what time I have available at the moment. Though, summed up for why she is the way she is

Her mom died, her one and only friend betrayed her and she hasn't made any since, and eldritch abominations (Nightmare Moon, Queen Chrysalis, and arguably Discord, just going by Season 2 baddies) keep trying to take over her home.


The one in the pony D&D campaign: The insane goddess of magic, who wants to basically erase magic from existence. PCs are working to restore her fractured mind so she realizes "Hey, this is a really damn stupid way to do what I want" which is get rid of certain types of magic (She despises non-consensual mind-control affects, among a few other things), and get rid of the goddess of evil. That latter goal really shouldn't require any explanation.

Now, to explain the power level of the latter: Not only did they basically have to seal her in the equivalent of Pandora's box (This was before the princesses ever started ruling. They don't even have a clue she exists, due to her basically being damned from Memory.), but the princesses are quasi-deities at best in this setting. The goddess of Magic is a greater deity. The ranking goes Quasi Deity<Demigod<Lesser Deity<Intermediate Deity<Greater Deity<Overdeity

So, it's really in the PCs' best interests to make sure they restore her sanity BEFORE she breaks out, not after.

If you're curious, overdeities basically ARE that thing in this setting. So, if she somehow made it up to Overdeity status, she'd get total control over magic (Friendship would be unaffected, since the villain is insane and not thinking right, not totally evil. Also, Magic and friendship are not QUITE the same thing in this setting. There's no way to get rid of friendship, ever.)


Yes, I know she's absurdly powerful. That was sort of the point. Trying to fight her directly would be like Pippin trying to fight Sauron one-on-one. Fighting her aspects and minions is however doable, and even her strongest minion isn't a match for the princesses working together.


That's the short, fatigue-heavy write up for both. I guarantee you, if either of those sound poorly thought out, I can make them sound at least slightly better thought out tomorrow. Or that I did actually put thought into them.

[MLai]

(Note: If there wasn't a major problem (IE, Celestia and Luna just freed up a lot of unicorns to do other work/have fun) then I'm fine with her solving it because she was born an alicorn)

I just realized something... there's a timeline mixup somewhere. Did the sisters seal Discord before or after the HWE event?
Because a major headcanon is that the world's natural order is broken due to Discord. But that would mean the sisters sealed Discord before HWE? Otherwise why would the ponies need to magically control the celestial bodies if they aren't broken?
But if Discord wasn't the one to break astronomy, then that means the sun and moon had always been broken? Then who was around to move stuff before unicorns evolved?
Is that why they raised the flag of the sisters on the stage, because Discord was sealed before HWE????
*confused*

Friendships power wasn't discovered by her, but by Clover the Clever and Co when they defeated the windigos.

I'm talking about Friendship as Magic. Making peace after a near-extinction global war is praise-worthy, but that doesn't require FiM.
I'm of the firm opinion that the Windigos are allegory; the events are too absurd even for a magical setting. Otherwise, I'm required to believe that 6 ponies managed to repopulate all of Equestria. That's some genetic bottleneck right there.
And you can't say all the other ponies in the world magically thawed alive and well. Because the Elements weren't involved to magically reverse damage-and-death in that scenario.

But keep your facts straight, friendship was already a powerful value/force by the time she was born.

No it's not. It was peace after a long global war. Wonderful for ponies. But that doesn't suddenly make harmony/friendship the prevailing social ethos of all of ponykind. If that's how things worked, Earth would already be a Star Trek post-conflict federation by now. Ppl/ponies don't learn from history so perfectly.

It took a conglomeration of key factors for the history lesson to stick for longer than "Until the next war":
(1) A benevolent immortal who rose to the top of the hierarchy, thus able to exert social influence forever.
(2) Said immortal actively makes a mythified version of HWE a central thread of ponydom's moral fiber through education and propaganda, until it's thoroughly ingrained.
(3) Said immortal demonstrates to the populace a physical effect from the concept of friendship/harmony (at least while she had the EoH in her possession), akin to a prophet demonstrating divine miracles to show the populace that his beliefs are the true beliefs. No room for internet arguments when Celestia's opinion can form a rainbow laser while the other guy's is just words.

On a side note, even if she had been the one to discover friendship's power, that wouldn't change anything. It's like discovering gravity.

And yet what do we call Newton?
As I said, Celestia deserves the credit, even if she's not the power source. The tree is inanimate; it needs a prophet.

Which also has nothing to do with how Equestria's society turned out. We know they were already on that path, and Celestia almost certainly supported them. But the level of her involvement is unknown.

We can be pretty sure of her level of involvement just based on the setting and all the background events. Ponydom worships the ground she walks on, and she's been the Princess for 1000+ years, and she was the tree's 1st prophet. Whatever path ponydom was on, was because she wanted it.

Of course the new handbook completely ruins that set up by having the unicorns raising the sun require a permanent sacrifice of their magic. Which violates the three tribes being able to live in harmony. For long anyways.

The men letting the womenfolk onto the lifeboats on the Titanic were heroic precisely for their sacrifice, so I don't know what the problem is. I still think the problem is that you don't like the fact that it was essentially a doomed world before the sisters.
And it still is a doomed world. The natural clockwork of the universe continues to demand that this planet die... not now, but yesterday. Only the magic of societal cooperation and harmony is keeping it from immediately becoming a dark cold rogue planet floating through the void.

My problem is if she solved the unicorn sacrifice problem, by it simply being her cutie mark moment and she raised the sun through sheer power. (Also it's worth noting that this criticism also applies to Luna. It's just easier to say only one of them) Not only does the problem not fit the sort of themes the show uses, but it's solution is equally as far away from said themes. It wasn't solved through an understanding of friendship or some other equally positive emotion like love or even an epic quest of discovery, but simply because Celestia was super special..

What I'm saying is that Celestia coming on the scene and raising the sun is not the end of her special journey, but the beginning. She's not special for taking over sun-duty. She's special for staying put for the next 1000 years and slowly enacting her plan for keeping the world alive even if she's ever gone.

In fact the greatest personal loss that she had ever suffered in her long life occurred precisely because she chose to stay put. She doesn't need to raise the sun, she doesn't need to be princess, and thus she never had to lose her sister. She did it all for the little ponies.

[SiuiS]

It is not very often that I fully and completely agree with teh comments of a tumblr post.

This is one of those times.

[Forum Explorer]

I just realized something... there's a timeline mixup somewhere. Did the sisters seal Discord before or after the HWE event?
Because a major headcanon is that the world's natural order is broken due to Discord. But that would mean the sisters sealed Discord before HWE? Otherwise why would the ponies need to magically control the celestial bodies if they aren't broken?
But if Discord wasn't the one to break astronomy, then that means the sun and moon had always been broken? Then who was around to move stuff before unicorns evolved?
Is that why they raised the flag of the sisters on the stage, because Discord was sealed before HWE????
*confused*


I'm talking about Friendship as Magic. Making peace after a near-extinction global war is praise-worthy, but that doesn't require FiM.
I'm of the firm opinion that the Windigos are allegory; the events are too absurd even for a magical setting. Otherwise, I'm required to believe that 6 ponies managed to repopulate all of Equestria. That's some genetic bottleneck right there.
And you can't say all the other ponies in the world magically thawed alive and well. Because the Elements weren't involved to magically reverse damage-and-death in that scenario.


No it's not. It was peace after a long global war. Wonderful for ponies. But that doesn't suddenly make harmony/friendship the prevailing social ethos of all of ponykind. If that's how things worked, Earth would already be a Star Trek post-conflict federation by now. Ppl/ponies don't learn from history so perfectly.

It took a conglomeration of key factors for the history lesson to stick for longer than "Until the next war":
(1) A benevolent immortal who rose to the top of the hierarchy, thus able to exert social influence forever.
(2) Said immortal actively makes a mythified version of HWE a central thread of ponydom's moral fiber through education and propaganda, until it's thoroughly ingrained.
(3) Said immortal demonstrates to the populace a physical effect from the concept of friendship/harmony (at least while she had the EoH in her possession), akin to a prophet demonstrating divine miracles to show the populace that his beliefs are the true beliefs. No room for internet arguments when Celestia's opinion can form a rainbow laser while the other guy's is just words.


And yet what do we call Newton?
As I said, Celestia deserves the credit, even if she's not the power source. The tree is inanimate; it needs a prophet.


We can be pretty sure of her level of involvement just based on the setting and all the background events. Ponydom worships the ground she walks on, and she's been the Princess for 1000+ years, and she was the tree's 1st prophet. Whatever path ponydom was on, was because she wanted it.


The men letting the womenfolk onto the lifeboats on the Titanic were heroic precisely for their sacrifice, so I don't know what the problem is. I still think the problem is that you don't like the fact that it was essentially a doomed world before the sisters.
And it still is a doomed world. The natural clockwork of the universe continues to demand that this planet die... not now, but yesterday. Only the magic of societal cooperation and harmony is keeping it from immediately becoming a dark cold rogue planet floating through the void.


What I'm saying is that Celestia coming on the scene and raising the sun is not the end of her special journey, but the beginning. She's not special for taking over sun-duty. She's special for staying put for the next 1000 years and slowly enacting her plan for keeping the world alive even if she's ever gone.

In fact the greatest personal loss that she had ever suffered in her long life occurred precisely because she chose to stay put. She doesn't need to raise the sun, she doesn't need to be princess, and thus she never had to lose her sister. She did it all for the little ponies.

Going by direct canon (IE literal interpretation of the show), the events of HWE happened before Discord. What we know of the timeline goes something like this: HWE > Discord's rule > Alicorn Sisters defeat Discord > Tirek's invasion of Equestria + Sombra > Nightmare Moon > Present day. And in that timeline there is some wackiness like when exactly was Starswirl alive?

My headcanon is that Discord messed with time the first time he took over. And so the early history of Equestria is a jumbled mess for that reason because the past present and future weren't synced up. After the Elements were activated things went back to normal but a lot of history was lost, and even more was simply displaced.

However, by direct canon, the unicorns have always been the ones to move the sun (prior to Celestia). As such there is actually evidence against evolution in the pony universe.

Except the windigos were literally defeated by the 'Fire of Friendship', which we know exists because they showed it hovering over Canterlot after the play. There was also the howling which sounded like the windigos in the play.

I do agree however, that the play was an allegory. But to a lesser extent that you do. The windigos existed, and the cave scene (more or less) did happen, but that wasn't the only thing that happened. There were many other ponies taking shelter elsewhere, more or less praying to be saved. History has instead focused on the critical events that lead to Equestria, not what was happening to literally everypony at the time. Presumably the leaders met one final time to figure out the storm after the tribes all migrated, and as a result of the leaders hatred for each other their cave froze first. Of course that's just my headcanon on what actually happened.

However their is basis for the windigos actually existing. After all we already have another emotion eating species (Changlings), one artifact powered by emotion (Crystal Heart (Two if you count friendship as an emotion)), another species who are effected by emotions (Crystal ponies are shiny when happy, dim when sad). So Windigos do fit the setting on a thematic level, as does their defeat.

Long global war is your headcanon, and is unsupported by the canon of the show in any way. Ponies are also not human. And from canon we see that after a 'war' (more of a battle but hey) with the buffalo, they happily except the deal and there are no lingering hostilities. As far as I know that has never happened on Earth. Also I don't know of any 'hot' wars where there was a peace without one side 'winning' the war. Finally unlike humans who can survive without another human nation, ponies cannot. The three tribes must work together or all three nations will die out. That means from a purely practical note there is no reason to wage war, and lots of reason to work together. Which removes a lot of reasons for wars to break out (though not all)


Again all of that is unsupported headcanon. As there is no evidence presented the only thing I can say is that it likely didn't happen that way. Considering you have to throw out evidence (IE declaring the HWE as fictional) you actually have evidence going against you. Actually there is one piece I can argue. We've seen both times we know that Celestia activated the Elements of Harmony. In both times there were zero background ponies witnessing the event. So you are proposing a hypothetical third scenario where the Elements were used and witnessed by a crowd of ponies. However we have evidence that using the Elements was not SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) as both Tirek and Sombra were fought and defeated with zero evidence that the Elements were used at all. Indeed there is evidence against it. (The brief scene of Sombra's defeat does not show the Elements distinctive use, and Tirek's defeat explicitly states his brother was responsible). So while a fifth villain that the Elements were used on is possible it's also unsupported.


That's not my point. Nobody claims Newton created gravity and that gravity's power wasn't active before he discovered it. Friendship is a literal power in the MLP universe. Claiming that it was never activated before Celestia is kinda absurd to take when there is contrary evidence.


She's a beautiful, kind, immortal Princess. She could have done literally nothing in government and gotten that result from the common pony. However, it is very likely that she did everything she could to support friendship and harmony in Equestria. However we also have evidence that ponykind had already made some progress on that subject. And not just in HWE this time. Starswirl's book had a spell that harnessed friendship in order to transform the caster into an alicorn. His understanding of friendship was flawed (which messed up the spell, leaving it incomplete) but we know that Starswirl existed before Celestia and Luna ruled Equestria. This provides evidence that the ponies of Equestria had already taken steps to further their understanding of Friendship's power, flawed as it may have been.

Basically this means the ponies of Equestria were already on the path to becoming modern Equestria. Celestia may have helped them along, and kept them on the path but she doesn't deserve full credit.


Heroic does not equal Harmonious. In fact Heroic kinda implies things aren't Harmonious in the first place. On that note Heroism has not been seen as a literal force like Friendship, Love, and Harmony have.

Now that's not true, there is no evidence that the world is doomed at all. Unlike our world where the Laws of Conservation limit us, and there is direct evidence of entropy, we've seen evidence that those Laws can be broken in Equestria. Twilight has literally created matter with some spells, as did the mirror pool. We've also seen her violate time, and seen evidence of anti-age spells. Celestia and Luna are also presumably immortal. There is also enough evidence to support the idea that MLP is not running on a normal universal model. (IE, space might not exist or it might be something different)

You are correct that the world does require the ponies to be acting in Harmony. That's kinda my point. Everything we've seen in the show points to Friendship being a literal force in the MLP universe. So how does it make sense that the world was set up in a way where Friendship and Harmony didn't matter and it required a Deus Ex Machina in the form of Celestia to keep things running? In fact if we accept this as true it makes Celestia and Luna (and perhaps Twilight and Cadence) the most important ponies in the world as the planet will literally die out without them. Which means Chrysalis' invasion was literally suicidal.

And that changes nothing. I have no problems with what happened later in her life. I only have problems with this singular event in the beginning of her life. What happens later being good and well written does not justify this event, or invalidate my negative emotions to said event.

[Aotrs Commander]

Woah, woah woah!

Sequel to Earth & Sky! Sequel to Earth & Sky!

[MLai]

And in that timeline there is some wackiness like when exactly was Starswirl alive?

Starswirl became a time traveler. Makes sense right? It's in the Journal. We don't know where/when he is, now.
HWE doesn't fit well in the canon timeline because it's not an actual single historical event. And it has many inconsistencies within itself because it's not an actual single historical event. It's a fable. Likely loosely based on multiple events in history.
Again, wth was that flag about? Animation error, sure. But in-setting, how do you explain it? Fact is, it's not actual history therefore nopony cares.

However their is basis for the windigos actually existing. After all we already have another emotion eating species (Changlings), one artifact powered by emotion (Crystal Heart (Two if you count friendship as an emotion)), another species who are effected by emotions (Crystal ponies are shiny when happy, dim when sad). So Windigos do fit the setting on a thematic level, as does their defeat.

The unbelievability of the play as actual history is not because of the presence of fantastical creatures. Rather, it's because the world is coming to an end and there are depleting resources... and yet there is no war? Why aren't the tribes fighting each other for food and work slaves? Because it's a whitewashed allegory for children's consumption.
All of MLP adventure episodes deal with rampant magic and creatures, but they play out like actual events. The HWE play felt like a fable from head to hoof, and the characters in them felt like characters playing their roles.

Again all of that is unsupported headcanon. As there is no evidence presented the only thing I can say is that it likely didn't happen that way. Considering you have to throw out evidence (IE declaring the HWE as fictional) you actually have evidence going against you.

It was presented as a play with many internal inconsistencies that the pony audience didn't care about. Because they all know it's a fable not a documentary. I can declare it as fictional and there is no weight of evidence against that declaration.

The EOH, otoh, are accepted as real and historical fact by ponydom. It's in the storybook introduction in S01E01.

Friendship is a literal power in the MLP universe. Claiming that it was never activated before Celestia is kinda absurd to take when there is contrary evidence.

What evidence is there that the EOH were ever used before the Sisters???
According to the Journal, Starswirl became a time traveling wizard. He could have learned about the EOH from future-Celestia.

Now that's not true, there is no evidence that the world is doomed at all.

I mean doomed in that if the world is allowed to progress naturally, i.e. without conscious and noble interference, it will immediately become a rogue planet devoid of life. In that manner, it's analogous to Camelot of legend. Hey that sounds like the capital! I seriously just noticed that.
THERE'S NO WAY Lauren Faust was thinking the same thing I just said...!

So how does it make sense that the world was set up in a way where Friendship and Harmony didn't matter and it required a Deus Ex Machina in the form of Celestia to keep things running? In fact if we accept this as true it makes Celestia and Luna the most important ponies in the world as the planet will literally die out without them.

That's the whole point. Camelot died with Arthur.
You look at it and think "Well that's just un-pony! That's not why I watch this show!"
I'm saying like it or not, this is the world of Equestria. It is exactly like Camelot of Arthurian legend, the ephemeral beacon that shone against the black void of barbarity. It's the Hopeless Courage that is the theme of LOTR, beautiful in its tragic nobility. The show is the show, but Equestria is Equestria. It's unsuitable for the primary demographic, but there's nothing un-pony about it.
And the above is what Celestia is fighting to change; she's fighting against the fate of her world. That's where she's special, not because she upstages a few unicorns.

[t209]

That's the whole point. Camelot died with Arthur.
You look at it and think "Well that's just un-pony! That's not why I watch this show!"
I'm saying like it or not, this is the world of Equestria. It is exactly like Camelot of Arthurian legend, the ephemeral beacon that shone against the black void of barbarity. It's the Hopeless Courage that is the theme of LOTR, beautiful in its tragic nobility. The show is the show, but Equestria is Equestria. It's unsuitable for the primary demographic, but there's nothing un-pony about it.
And the above is what Celestia is fighting to change; she's fighting against the fate of her world. That's where she's special, not because she upstages a few unicorns.

Well, Lauren Faust used to work on the terrible WB's Quest for Camelot. It was supposed to be good but they decided to go Disney.

[MLai]

Well, Lauren Faust used to work on the terrible WB's Quest for Camelot. It was supposed to be good but they decided to go Disney.

Googles Quest For Camelot......
Oh wow, a 2D animated feature I don't know about?! I'll watch any available 2D animated feature these days! Besides, I'm a huge Arthurian enthusiast! This can't possibly disappoint--

**Watches Nostalgia Critic's review of QFC.**

Oh.

[Kd7sov]

I'm talking about Friendship as Magic. Making peace after a near-extinction global war is praise-worthy, but that doesn't require FiM.

Well, you know. Except for the part with the magic "Fire of Friendship" heart.

[DigoDragon]

Pegasus on Powerlines

Spoiler

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Trixie Ponders Alternate Class Features

Spoiler

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Waiting for Inspiration

Spoiler

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Fluttershy's Prank...?

Spoiler

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It is not very often that I fully and completely agree with teh comments of a tumblr post.
This is one of those times.

Bwahahaha, that is priceless!

Oh.

Yeah. I watched part of it on cable and was bored into turning it off.

[TheAmishPirate]

Googles Quest For Camelot......
Oh wow, a 2D animated feature I don't know about?! I'll watch any available 2D animated feature these days! Besides, I'm a huge Arthurian enthusiast! This can't possibly disappoint--

**Watches Nostalgia Critic's review of QFC.**

Oh.

I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.

I'm hoping you at least at the good fortune to watch the review before you actually sat down to watch that mess.

[t209]

So to all Ponies on the long forgotten subject on Twilight MGS references.
She's not supposed to be Snake, she's actually Big Boss.

Spoiler: Here's the comparison

Show

Well, Snake doesn't have eyepatch but Big Boss does.
edit: Since we're talking about Celestia,

Spoiler: MGS3: Snake Eater spoiler

Show

it would sound creepier if Twi have to fighter Princess Celestia.

[Tectonic Robot]

MLai; that's a nice headcanon you got there, but a headcanon nonetheless. I, personally, see no reason to assume that there was a massive, near genocidal war in Equestria's past.

[DigoDragon]

In between mopping floors I've helped my daughter with her MLP/Pokemon crossover playtime. Currently I'm Team Rocket, consisting of Big Mac and Cheerilee. I wanted Scootaloo as Meowth, but motion was denied for now.

Our heroes right currently are Non-princess Twilight (a clone?) with Pikachu and Pinkamena with Bulbasaur.

[otakuryoga]

It is not very often that I fully and completely agree with teh comments of a tumblr post.

This is one of those times.

Luna is NOT AMUSED!

Woah, woah woah!

Sequel to Earth & Sky! Sequel to Earth & Sky!

wow..i will have to read that..and i have not read any fanfic in a while(as in 539 chapters in my queue a while)

[Silverraptor]

Meet DRWolf

[HamHam]

Woah, woah woah!

Sequel to Earth & Sky! Sequel to Earth & Sky!

Looking pretty good so far.

[Rater202]

In between mopping floors I've helped my daughter with her MLP/Pokemon crossover playtime. Currently I'm Team Rocket, consisting of Big Mac and Cheerilee. I wanted Scootaloo as Meowth, but motion was denied for now.

Our heroes right currently are Non-princess Twilight (a clone?) with Pikachu and Pinkamena with Bulbasaur.

This is either the cutest thing ever or the craziest thing ever.

[Rater202]

There are two Pony references hidden in this video I found.

I will give 1,000,000 useless internet dollars to anypony who finds both.

[DigoDragon]

This is either the cutest thing ever or the craziest thing ever.

Spoiler

Show