Erfworld 30 The Shark Has Been Jumped

[archon_huskie]

in any ase, the next strip erfworld has not jumped the shark at all.

[pylonhead]

I like the concept. I like the artwork. I'm even titillated by the s&m.

I just wish they would keep the action moving. I find the pacing to be glacial. Two episodes a week require less posing, more plot movement!

Look at todays "What makes you think we're the bad guys" comic. We got the message after the first three panels, but then we have to sit thought 6 special effect panels that don't advance the story at all.

Give us the meat. What observations will Parson make that are key to the defense? What is Wanda's hidden agenda? How will Sizemore's liberal arts education save the day?

[averagejoe]

While I do wish that I could read the entire comic today, the pacing is fine. It gives the comic style, and it's a good storytelling technique.

[Caractacus]

True, it IS slow, but these are the penalties for being in on the Next Big Thing while it is still only a Relatively Small Thing (with apologies to Pratchett).

I like the artistic elements A LOT. I am not a seasoned traveller of Web-comics by any stretch of the imagination, but this strikes me as being really quite special, almost cinematographic.

I can handle a slow plot in exchange for this unusual bonus feature - I assume it woud be lost if we had to pack in more action. Or get the creators chained to a slave boat and forced to draw, draw, draw...

[SteveMB]

Look at todays "What makes you think we're the bad guys" comic. We got the message after the first three panels, but then we have to sit thought 6 special effect panels that don't advance the story at all.

I disagree. The first three panels take Stanley from "annoying buffoon" to "annoying and angry buffoon making some vague threat". By the end, he's gotten to "OMG, pissing him off was a really bad idea" in a way that never came across before.

[pylonhead]

Edit to note that I didn't see this post before I responded here.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36815
I'm glad to see that the authors are thinking about this. I think the comic has the potential to be amazing.

I like the artistic elements A LOT.

[...]

I can handle a slow plot in exchange for this unusual bonus feature - I assume it woud be lost if we had to pack in more action. Or get the creators chained to a slave boat and forced to draw, draw, draw...

That would be true if I thought we needed more panels. I think we need more efficient story telling. A director of a film would ask themselves, "If I need to establish this thread of the story, and I need to hit that emotional beat, what's the quickest way of visually accomplishing that to keep the film moving?"

I disagree. The first three panels take Stanley from "annoying buffoon" to "annoying and angry buffoon making some vague threat". By the end, he's gotten to "OMG, pissing him off was a really bad idea" in a way that never came across before.

Except that it's already been established that Parson is magically impelled to do his every bidding. Now the entire threat scene is completely off base. When you can order someone to lick your boots, and they have to comply, you don't need an army of dragons to keep them in line.

[averagejoe]

It's not about keeping him in line. It's about being darned impressive. It means that Stanely could do worse things to you even if you don't directly disobey them. Heck, if I owned the arkenhammer, I'd be hellishly abusive of that particular feature. I'd be like, *ka-DWAGON* "As a matter of fact, I don't really want a subscription to your magazine!"

Plus Stanely is totally obsessed with himself. Mere obedience isn't enough. He needs awe and respect as well. It's a short guy thing.

[Wardog]

Jumping the shark is a metaphor that was originally used to denote the tipping point at which a TV series is deemed to have passed its peak, or has introduced plot twists that are illogical in terms of everything that has preceded them. Once a show has "jumped the shark," fans sense a noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm. The term has also evolved to describe other areas of pop culture, including movie series, music, acting celebrities, or authors for whom a drastic change was seen as the beginning of the end. These changes are often attempts to attract their fans' waning attention with over-the-top statements or increasingly overt appeals to sex or violence. Some have broadened its use to simply describe any decline in appeal for the subject in question, without requiring a significant "jump the shark" moment.

Jump-the-shark moments are typically scenes that finally convince viewers that the show has fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise. In these cases, they are viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of a decline in ratings. In other cases, the departure or replacement of a main cast member or character or a significant change in setting changes a critical dynamic of the show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

I don't really see how this description could apply to Erfworld.

I don't see anything that could be described as illogical plot twists, or evidence that the series has "fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise". (And given the sureal nature of Erfwold, I would imagine that would be quite hard to do).

And Seeing that we are only on episode 31, I don't see how you can say that episode 30 was the point at which of a "noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm".

[RecklessFable]

Even nitpickier . . . the shark jumping occurred during a special "Cunninghams and Hangers-on Go to Hawaii" episode of the show. So it happened in Hawaii. ;D

They were in Hawaii?!?!? Damn, my childhood memory is fading fast... *sniff*

But I'll never forget the Fonz in the air with the "Aaaaaaaaaayeeeee" cut to commercial cliffhanger :p

And now to totally threadjack, did anyone have to argue with their parents to be able to watch the final MASH episode because it was past their bedtime?

[RecklessFable]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

I don't really see how this description could apply to Erfworld.

I don't see anything that could be described as illogical plot twists, or evidence that the series has "fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise". (And given the sureal nature of Erfwold, I would imagine that would be quite hard to do).

And Seeing that we are only on episode 31, I don't see how you can say that episode 30 was the point at which of a "noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm".

Well, to play Devil's Advocate, one might easily say that now that Jumped the Shark is part of the vernacular, the meaning has expanded beyond the original meaning. "The Beginning of the End" seems to be closer to where the usage is settling.

To play another side of the arguement, one might argue that it Jumped when it went from a comic containing childish themes and childlike, big-eyed characters to having a Lesbian BDSM edge WAS a fundamental change.

The easiest arguement to make that it never Jumped is because it was never good or massively successful, and therefore doesn't have far enough to decline.

I guess the final arguement is that is actually a good comic or something, but I can't really argue that point effectively.

Personally, I don't like that it is no longer "Safe for Work", but then again, I only click on it when there is no new OOTS up and I've got 3 minutes to peruse a new comic.

[Scientivore]

I guess maybe in Erfworld, sharks jump you?

Woohoo! I have a sig now! *happydance*

[TinSoldier]

And now to totally threadjack, did anyone have to argue with their parents to be able to watch the final MASH episode because it was past their bedtime?

Nope. We had watched MASH so long and had been fans for so long that it was a given to be able to watch the whole thing.

Of course, I was a teenager at the time as well.

[pclips]

See, you stole our thunder. We've been considering a T-shirt that says:

In Erfworld, Peep Eats You!

[Scientivore]

If there's a cool enough picture then I think that it wouldn't matter how stale the meme is. Like, have a couple of marauding gwiffons attacking a village. I see one in the center-left foreground chasing a fleeing villager (screaming and flailing his or her arms) diagonally into the bottom left corner with the gwiffon stretching its neck forward in eagerness as it runs. The other gwiffon is in the middle-right of the background, facing left, swallowing someone whole, head tilted back so that its neck is straight and its food can slide straight down, the villager in to his or her waist, legs still outside and kicking. The image could be balanced out as necessary with a few huts and some stereotyped fantasy village clutter, like a central well and some farming implements. I see it all on a clear background with no border, so that the entire t-shirt is the canvas. Then put that tagline beneath it and I think that would work!

[SmartAlec]

Except that it's already been established that Parson is magically impelled to do his every bidding. Now the entire threat scene is completely off base. When you can order someone to lick your boots, and they have to comply, you don't need an army of dragons to keep them in line.

The comic tells us what the Arkenhammer does.

Sure, it was mentioned before, but now we know EXACTLY what it does and how.

I bet that'll be important for the reader to know at some point.

[Erk]

Also, the comic establishes an aspect of Stanley's character we hadn't seen, namely some strength and conviction. I don't think a pixel of it is wasted.

And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous, but gratuity != shark jumping. Wanda's fanservice is fast becoming one of her hallmarks. It is cute.

[Luvlein]

And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous.

I disagree. I consider Erf 30 to be very important, plot-wise as well as in developing two of the main characters. People complaining about the pace of 31 probably do so because it is in contrast with the very fast and complex 30.

[Scientivore]

Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping: making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.

[SteveMB]

And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous, but gratuity != shark jumping. Wanda's fanservice is fast becoming one of her hallmarks. It is cute.

There's a lot more to it than fanservice (not that there's anything wrong with that).

What's behind Jillian's proposal? Did she realize the risk that Wanda would react that way? If so, she must have been pretty highly motivated -- by what? If not, is she now taking this situation a lot more seriously than her previous cavalier attitude about being captured?

As for Wanda, the "Call me Mistress" line seems a bit odd, really -- an island of fanservicable BDSM play in the middle of a genuinely brutal torture session. (My guess is that she simply doesn't want Jillian addressing her by name, as a preemptive dismissal of any more friendly overtures.)

[Erk]

I didn't mean that the scene was superfluous. I meant that it was a gratuity: pages 29 and 30 were clearly designed to be fanservice. That doesn't mean they do not serve a purpose and advance the plot. Gratuitous and superfluous are not synonyms. "Given or received without cost or obligation; free" in this case.

I loved the torture comic and I find fanservice annoying, so that should say plenty.

[TinSoldier]

Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping: making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.

Heh. That was great!

[Green Bean]

It's not about keeping him in line. It's about being darned impressive. It means that Stanely could do worse things to you even if you don't directly disobey them. Heck, if I owned the arkenhammer, I'd be hellishly abusive of that particular feature. I'd be like, *ka-DWAGON* "As a matter of fact, I don't really want a subscription to your magazine!"

Plus Stanely is totally obsessed with himself. Mere obedience isn't enough. He needs awe and respect as well. It's a short guy thing.

Agreed. Stanley doesn't want to order people to obey him: he wants them to do it anyway out of fear.

Besides, I think that this comic made me move him from 'idiotic, incompetant overlord' to 'idiotic, incompetant overlord, that you don't want to mess with'

[Daedalus73]

Turn-based sapphic domination, catch it now at giantitp.com!

I really liked Erfworld when it came out ... it was intriguing, and different. As the story evolved it began to interest me more & more. I've posted here before (which btw isn't necessary to have a valid opinion, despite what some prolific posters like to think), sometimes with praise and glee and one time with a "ho-hum". I've never been an Erf-basher.

The OP's opinion seems to strike true to me. It seems like excessive fan-service to Wanda and Jillian to me, and it's really begun to turn me off to the comic. Which is a shame, because I've really enjoyed it until recently.

--an Erfworld fan

[JonathanC]

You know, I honestly think that a lot of this "outrage" over so-called "fan service" in episode 30 is just a smokescreen. I think people are just mad that their favorite character, who we already know is *supposed* to be (nominally) a villain, is finally ACTING LIKE ONE. That's right! Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent, then raises their dead bodies as enslaved mockeries of life, has finally done something "bad" on screen.

Oooh! Somebody call the police!

If you're going to root for the bad guy, fine. She's a fairly sympathetic "bad guy". But don't cry and whine whenever they finally start behaving in something less than a heroic manner. If you want heroes, go cheer for Prince Ansom's forces.

[SteveMB]

Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent

Huh? That's Stanley's doing -- Wanda clearly understands that it's a bad idea (though we don't know how hard she tried to dissuade him before it finally came down to their last chance to avoid total defeat, and she implies that her ability to do so before it came down to this was limited).

[JonathanC]

Huh? That's Stanley's doing -- Wanda clearly understands that it's a bad idea (though we don't know how hard she tried to dissuade him before it finally came down to their last chance to avoid total defeat, and she implies that her ability to do so before it came down to this was limited).

Irregardless, she did it. In fact, she studied how to do it for quite some time, and apparently doing so is her main interest, as far as magic goes. She takes dead bodies and animates them, and not for any particularly nice purpose.

She's not the "big bad guy" in the strip, and may or may not be considered a monster, but she is certainly villainous. One of the main problems I have with a lot of fans (of a variety of comics) is that they can't stand a real villain. They want to root for the bad guys, have the good guys be bland and easily ignored, and look forward to when the bad guys thrash them.

Well, there's nothing wrong with liking a villain. But I prefer for my villains to have an edge; I don't care about Darth Vader as an innocent little boy. I want the Darth Vader who's executing children in the Jedi Temple. Because when he gets tossed into lava and burnt to a crisp, I'm glad to see him go. That's what a villain is for.

It was stated from several strips ago that Wanda's "hobby" is torturing people. Acting surprised when she appears to enjoy torturing people (most people enjoy their hobbies, you know) just strikes me as disingenuous.

[spite48]

I really don't understand why people post on forums for free webcomics that they don't like. Some of us are really really enjoying erfworld. There's plenty of internet for everyone, go find a part that you like. I hear OOTS is really good.

[Silver]

I really don't understand why people post on forums for free webcomics that they don't like. Some of us are really really enjoying erfworld. There's plenty of internet for everyone, go find a part that you like. I hear OOTS is really good.

I imagine that most people who just flat don't like Erfworld *don't* post here. I'm seeing people (including the one in the mirror) who do like it, but don't like the turn it took, and care enough to give the creators feedback.

[JonathanC]

Wanda finally doing something evil is a turn that was long overdue.

[Daedalus73]

You know, I honestly think that a lot of this "outrage" over so-called "fan service" in episode 30 is just a smokescreen. I think people are just mad that their favorite character, who we already know is *supposed* to be (nominally) a villain, is finally ACTING LIKE ONE. That's right! Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent, then raises their dead bodies as enslaved mockeries of life, has finally done something "bad" on screen.

Oooh! Somebody call the police!

If you're going to root for the bad guy, fine. She's a fairly sympathetic "bad guy". But don't cry and whine whenever they finally start behaving in something less than a heroic manner. If you want heroes, go cheer for Prince Ansom's forces.

Sorry, you missed the mark. At least with me. I have no problem liking fictional villians who do bad bad things. It's the excessive and blatant fanservice that I don't like.