Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

[Brother Oni]

Clara is the wrong companion for this Doctor, I think--you need someone light to counterbalance the darkness, and Clara is far too serious herself for that to work. Someone like Donna would have worked much better.

Spoiler: Donna and Twelve

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Given what happened in this episode, Donna would have probably refused to travel with him. She would have called him out on his attitude after Saibra 'died' and unlike Ten, Twelve would have pushed back.

Big blazing argument and Donna leaves the TARDIS before Twelve can kick her off it.

[Pex]

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one more thing that doesn't make sense: he says there were given 6 of those vials.. but that means they're 2 short by the end of it... 6 at the start, 2 are used by the accomplices.. leaving 4.. except there's six of them at the end that need transporting (4 bank robbers and 2 tellers).
one more thing that was laughable: the sudden streak of heroism on the part of the hacker guy. he's a convicted fellon, a bank robber and a hacker.. but he knows a girl for about an hour and decides to sacrifice himself for the sake of her pretty face... a bit forced???

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The two who used them already still had theirs. The hacker even showed Clara his when he explained what they really were.

Some funnies:

The Doctor references his eyebrows again as the source of his superpower. They're really milking fantalk.

Funnier: When the Teller is accessing The Doctor's memories, he mentions the bowtie and how silly it was. I guess bowties aren't cool anymore.

[grolim]

NEW EPISODE!!

lots of things I liked in this episode, a few I really didn't.. or at least I found unnecessary.

Spoiler: because, new episode, seriously, read only if you've watched the episode already

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he said Shuttity up!!!!
muahahahahahahahah

ok, that done, I totally called it that he was the Architect as soon as they found the first briefcase. I still went along for the ride and had about a minute of doubt when it looked like the old lady could have been it. Kind of funny that the version of himself he hates has an american accent (yes, I know, he selfloathes so it makes no sense, but it's funny nonetheless).
it still remains unexplained how the Doctor initially could get all the right info and all the right stuff in the right places.. and if he could do that, why did he bother to "re-do" it in the first place? why not liberate the teller by himself?
Why is he taking Clara along for the ride? We're at a stage where she lives her own life and he comes get her when he needs her. So to come get her, he must have had a need for her... this episode however would have worked exactly fine if she had not come along at all... in fact all he did was to put her pointlessly in danger. For once we get an episode where Clara isn't the Mary Sue of the situation and they make her presence completely irrelevant other than for the moderate banter between them at the very end, which shows the Doctor being a little jealous of her date.
one more thing that doesn't make sense: he says there were given 6 of those vials.. but that means they're 2 short by the end of it... 6 at the start, 2 are used by the accomplices.. leaving 4.. except there's six of them at the end that need transporting (4 bank robbers and 2 tellers).
one more thing that was laughable: the sudden streak of heroism on the part of the hacker guy. he's a convicted fellon, a bank robber and a hacker.. but he knows a girl for about an hour and decides to sacrifice himself for the sake of her pretty face... a bit forced???

things I liked: the pacing, the acting (this is probably the best kind of plots and roles for Capaldi as a Doctor (other than the drammatic times at which I'm sure he'll excel), the general idea and the Teller creature. The plot was both predictable (him being the architect, the guards being the accomplices) and had a few unexpected twists... namely the clone thing and the actual nature of the mission.
good entertainment allround and the high pace of the episode makes partially up for the few plotholes. Still liking last episode better, but it's nowhere near Robots of Sherwood.

Spoiler: spoiler

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it still remains unexplained how the Doctor initially could get all the right info and all the right stuff in the right places.. and if he could do that, why did he bother to "re-do" it in the first place? why not liberate the teller by himself?

Because it had already happened. Remember they were robbing the bank in the past. And all the info he had he got from the old lady dying, from her memories. Kind of like him dying at the lake, the bank robbery was kind of a fixed event. It had already happened by the time he planned it. And since he planned it with the memories of what happened he was locked into it. Same for why Clara was there. I would not be surprised if he was also responsible for putting the two items the other thieves wanted there as well.

[factotum]

Why the Doctor couldn't just do it himself:

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It was explained in the episode that the solar storm would have made navigating the TARDIS into the bank impossible at that time, and he certainly couldn't have done it any earlier, because that would have changed the timeline--something the Doctor tries not to do where he can help it.

[dehro]

Spoiler: spoiler

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it still remains unexplained how the Doctor initially could get all the right info and all the right stuff in the right places.. and if he could do that, why did he bother to "re-do" it in the first place? why not liberate the teller by himself?

Because it had already happened. Remember they were robbing the bank in the past. And all the info he had he got from the old lady dying, from her memories. Kind of like him dying at the lake, the bank robbery was kind of a fixed event. It had already happened by the time he planned it. And since he planned it with the memories of what happened he was locked into it. Same for why Clara was there. I would not be surprised if he was also responsible for putting the two items the other thieves wanted there as well.

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That is most likely so, but still doesn't explain how. The only way to plant the goodies for the other two without the whole guilt detection thing would be to open an account at that very bank and deposit them, after a first memory wipe. Doing so renders the mutant's role completely redundant because the Doctor could just have used his own ID/access to get in instead of having her pretend to be a customer. He didn't need the safe cracker either since the old woman could just have given him the necessary codes.
So, once he gets told how it was done ( but remember, him getting his briefcases all the way to the vault without having customer access guilt detected or the hacker's help still remains unexplained, if nothing else because the old woman had no way of knowing this part of the plan) and what their roles were, it would take the Doctor half a second to realise that he has no need for Clara, most likely no need for the mutant (by opening his own account, again the only way for him to get their prizes in there without her assistance in the first place) and possibly no need for the hacker unless the old lady was unable to give him the codes... And decide not to involve them not to put them in danger and then simply undo/depart from the timeline going solo. The end result would be the same. The timeline would be rewritten in minimal part and if anything in a safer way than it was originally.

Why the Doctor couldn't just do it himself:

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It was explained in the episode that the solar storm would have made navigating the TARDIS into the bank impossible at that time, and he certainly couldn't have done it any earlier, because that would have changed the timeline--something the Doctor tries not to do where he can help it.

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The timeline had yet to happen at that stage. He couldn't have done it earlier but he could have done it then, without the assistance of others, since he never needed their assistance to get right up to the vault the first time around. If he DID need their help in that phase too it should have been shown onscreen during the recap of the missing memories

[Brother Oni]

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The timeline had yet to happen at that stage. He couldn't have done it earlier but he could have done it then, without the assistance of others, since he never needed their assistance to get right up to the vault the first time around. If he DID need their help in that phase too it should have been shown onscreen during the recap of the missing memories

Spoiler: Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey

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The timeline where the Doctor had robbed the bank had already happened, else how did an old, dying Karabaxos have the Doctor's telephone number? It just hadn't happened yet from the Doctor's perspective, which necessitated the Architect disguise since messing about with his own personal timeline can be extremely problematic.

He needed Psi's help to get past the vault door and Saibra's to get the group that far, rather than just himself. Clara's the only real dead weight.

[Ebon_Drake]

Spoiler: Time Heist

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On the whole, I liked it. Not a classic episode per se but solid enough and kept me entertained, even if it did make me wish I was watching an episode of Hustle instead. Or maybe the awesome Farscape bank job episode.

I guessed the Architect was the Doctor pretty much from the start, but the other twists worked for me. I'd have liked the heist to have involved a bit more work; there was a little too much "they crawl through a convenient air vent and are right where they need to be" (especially getting to the private vault) that made me dubious about how impregnable the bank was actually meant to be, but I guess they had to short-cut the robbery to fit in the rest of the plot. As others have said, Clara didn't have much reason to be there other than to be a liability.

No Missy/Promised Land stuff again as far as I could tell? I was expecting her to show up if the suicide button things had been genuine, but I guess nobody actually died by the Doctor's (in)actions this time?

So anyone got the time, knowledge and inclination to work out who all the criminals were that appeared in the montage sequence? The only one that really registered for me was a Slitheen, but I've been reliably informed that another was Abslom Daak, Dalek Killer which is a fantastically obscure reference.

Next episode looks kind of terrible, but I'll wait and see.

[dehro]

Spoiler: Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey

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The timeline where the Doctor had robbed the bank had already happened, else how did an old, dying Karabaxos have the Doctor's telephone number? It just hadn't happened yet from the Doctor's perspective, which necessitated the Architect disguise since messing about with his own personal timeline can be extremely problematic.

He needed Psi's help to get past the vault door and Saibra's to get the group that far, rather than just himself. Clara's the only real dead weight.

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Again, how did he himself get that far to plant the briefcases and prizes? The only way he could do that, with considerable handwaving of difficulties encountered, is by opening a bank account there. what Saibra did was to pretend to be someone who had an account there, and take some friends along. Something he could have done himself, once he had the clearance to access his own stuff there deposited. All having an extra person with him to do something redundant was to give the teller a bigger target to home in on... Which is exactly what ended up happening.

[Friv]

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one more thing that was laughable: the sudden streak of heroism on the part of the hacker guy. he's a convicted fellon, a bank robber and a hacker.. but he knows a girl for about an hour and decides to sacrifice himself for the sake of her pretty face... a bit forced???.

Spoiler: The Guy

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Ehn, it fit. We only really knew three things about that guy:
1) He was a cyborg hacker
2) His memories were swiss cheese and he was badly torn up about it
3) He had a self-sacrificing streak

I mean, he destroyed all of his memories while in jail to avoid incriminating others. The fact that he did it again, given his little speech about not having anyone, made his heroic sacrifice lie somewhere between heroism and depression.

[grolim]

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Again, how did he himself get that far to plant the briefcases and prizes? The only way he could do that, with considerable handwaving of difficulties encountered, is by opening a bank account there. what Saibra did was to pretend to be someone who had an account there, and take some friends along. Something he could have done himself, once he had the clearance to access his own stuff there deposited. All having an extra person with him to do something redundant was to give the teller a bigger target to home in on... Which is exactly what ended up happening.

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Easy. It was the FUTURE bank lady that hired him. She could easily have given him the access he needed. Since her access was simply by breathing into the detectors that could easily be faked with a tank of her breath. The primary problem is still that he did not get the job or plan it until AFTER he was a part of it. He had to do it the way he did because it had already happened. Kind of like how he had to go to the beach for River to shoot him since he had already seen it happen. As far as getting the teller onto him, that was part of the plan. For them to turn it loose so it would be where it needed to be when.

[dehro]

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Could have happened that way, yes. It should have been shown in the recap though, as was any other relevant part of the heist. Also, his first incursion should have been detected by the teller too (or by simple alarm, after all the team was busted and almost caught even with the teller still tucked away, what made his first incursion undetected and made the second one stand out?)

[theNater]

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Could have happened that way, yes. It should have been shown in the recap though, as was any other relevant part of the heist. Also, his first incursion should have been detected by the teller too (or by simple alarm, after all the team was busted and almost caught even with the teller still tucked away, what made his first incursion undetected and made the second one stand out?)

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The TARDIS. He flies in with the TARDIS, drops off a case, then flies away. He's in and out before anybody can figure out what the teller is reacting to.

[dehro]

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The TARDIS. He flies in with the TARDIS, drops off a case, then flies away. He's in and out before anybody can figure out what the teller is reacting to.

very good.. but.. again, since they showed every other bit of plot relevant to how things went down, they should have shown that too...

[huttj509]

very good.. but.. again, since they showed every other bit of plot relevant to how things went down, they should have shown that too...

"Robbing a bank is easy when you have a TARDIS."

Spoiler: Goals

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The goal wasn't getting into the bank. The goal was getting the teller(s) out, without them being missed.

Tellers get stolen (and they wouldn't trust to go with anyway), and all the finds of the richest woman ever are turned to their recapture. Had to get her out, then get the tellers out.

[theNater]

very good.. but.. again, since they showed every other bit of plot relevant to how things went down, they should have shown that too...

I can think of at least one other bit they didn't show:

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The escape ship, in orbit. They don't show it at any time, exterior or interior. Note that it is almost certainly not the TARDIS, because it has a big blue box inside it, and I can't imagine the Doctor leaving it parked inside itself(he could do it, I just don't believe he'd leave it parked that way).

I suspect the they felt showing the first break-in wasn't necessary, given that they explicitly tell us that breaking into a bank is easy when you have a TARDIS.

[MrConsideration]

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I liked the idea of this episode, and its cyberpunk trappings, more than the actual execution. The premise was great, but 'hacking into the most secure bank in the universe' apparently consists of 'walk through all the really large air-vents' which required a pretty hefty suspension of disbelief.

Looking past the plot-holes which require watcher interpretation to cover up, I really wish they'd advance the plot more - the maguffin in the bank could have easily been another portrait of Gallifrey, or a relic of some kind that could move us a step closer to freeing the Time Lords.

Freeing the Teller seemed a bit silly, too. It literally devours the thoughts of sapient life for sustenance. You set it loose on a planet and either local sapients get to enjoy becoming 'soup'or the Teller and Tellerette starve. Neither of these are brilliant conclusions. Why not prevent the Teller's species extinction using the time-machine?*

Something that's always bothered me: when I call the TARDIS, or use Rose's phone to call another point in time, what decides what actual time the call occurs? Why did the bank-owners phone call happen them and not at any other arbitrary time in the TARDIS' existence?


*For a show featuring a time-machine and about a Time Lord, the solution 'use the time machine' is pretty seldom invoked.

[theNater]

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Freeing the Teller seemed a bit silly, too. It literally devours the thoughts of sapient life for sustenance. You set it loose on a planet and either local sapients get to enjoy becoming 'soup'or the Teller and Tellerette starve. Neither of these are brilliant conclusions.

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Presumably, the tellers can gain nourishment some other way; otherwise the female would have starved down in the vault.

Something that's always bothered me: when I call the TARDIS, or use Rose's phone to call another point in time, what decides what actual time the call occurs?

The TARDIS does. It has an extra-temporal awareness and simply routes the calls to the appropriate time.

For a show featuring a time-machine and about a Time Lord, the solution 'use the time machine' is pretty seldom invoked.

People occasionally bring that up with the Doctor, and he usually says something along the lines of not changing events he's already a part of. You'll note that when he does do so, he takes great pains to disguise his future involvement.

[Eldan]

So, just saw Listen myself. Probably would have been better if I hadn't been spoiled on the end, but I was anyway, this thread or not.

Random thought:
House Lungbarrow - The Amish of Gallifrey?

[Kato]

Just my 2 cents on Time Heist:

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It was decent. Yeah, there was a bunch of stuff that worked because it had to work but it wasn't utterly terrible. The "architect" twist wasn't that surprising but I won't hold it against them. Maybe a slightly larger cast would have worked but then I was also afraid this would be "Doctor's X" (not that I've seen any of the "Ocean's" movies, or at least recently enough to have any recollection apart from the basic idea behind them)

Still, a few questions: Did I miss it or why did they keep the Teller's victim's around? Also, so the Teller just kind of... shambles around... can't you just run from it? I mean, yeah, I know it's a horror cliche but it ALWAYS annoys me. Something that moves as 5km/h and you can run about twice as fast if not continuously but you can't get away? What? (Also applies to many zombies...) btw, could Saira have copied the Doctor, since, you know, he's not human?
And... so, did the female Teller starve in that room? Or did she feed her(?) a clone once in a while? And while I can see how it is nicer to live out your live with another being of your species, aren't they still kind of screwed? I mean, in a "revive our species" kind of way? I guess I see why the Doctor wouldn't just drop them off back in time before their mass extinction but still.. (Wouldn't it have also worked if they were just "two aliens" and not the last of their race"?) btw, so they are just one of these species where the TARDIS fails to translate, because plot, huh?

[Brother Oni]

Just my 2 cents on Time Heist:

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Still, a few questions: Did I miss it or why did they keep the Teller's victim's around? Also, so the Teller just kind of... shambles around... can't you just run from it? I mean, yeah, I know it's a horror cliche but it ALWAYS annoys me. Something that moves as 5km/h and you can run about twice as fast if not continuously but you can't get away? What? (Also applies to many zombies...) btw, could Saira have copied the Doctor, since, you know, he's not human?
And... so, did the female Teller starve in that room? Or did she feed her(?) a clone once in a while? And while I can see how it is nicer to live out your live with another being of your species, aren't they still kind of screwed? I mean, in a "revive our species" kind of way? I guess I see why the Doctor wouldn't just drop them off back in time before their mass extinction but still.. (Wouldn't it have also worked if they were just "two aliens" and not the last of their race"?) btw, so they are just one of these species where the TARDIS fails to translate, because plot, huh?

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The Teller's victims were kept around as a warning to other not to mess about with the bank (note the constant video feed of the victims), much like the heads of traitors mounted on spikes at gates and bridges.

The Teller is much like a zombie in the sense that it's relentless. Once it's got hold of you, the psychic pressure immobilises you though (see Saira and Clara).

I think both Tellers are intelligent enough to be happy with just each other rather than worry about the extinction of the species. With regard to the earlier comment of their now preying on the local sapient population, the Doctor may have brought them back to the home planet where they have an ecological niche.

With regard to the TARDIS translation circuits failing, the Teller would have to make an attempt at saying something, right? A telepathic species probably wouldn't have any need for verbal forms of communication thus a threatening roar is untranslatable as it's not actually saying anything.

[BWR]

Time Heist was the best of the season so far. Yes, lots of idiocy and handwaving and having to invent reasons for stuff to work and things which could have been easily done other ways - since the sun was already acting up and the Doctor knew this in advance, why not just pick up the Teller and Tellerette when everybody's bugging out normally? Why go to such lengths? Why not just TARDIS in and pick up the Tellerette, then the Teller and leave them some place? Like ST, they love to make bull**** reasons to not use the TARDIS even if it has been used for similar things in other circumstances. The supposedly impregnable bank looked astoundingly pregnable. That dimension shift bomb should have worked on all other doors and walls too, shouldn't it? Why not just uas that or more of them to waltz through things? Why not just use the 'last resort' on the Teller instead of themselves?
Ridiculous set-ups and all are not new to DW, so I'm not really upset, I just like picking things to pieces. Most importantly, and why this was the best episode so far, we didn't have any Clara being the Impossible Girl or solving everything with the Doctor just being around, no stupid stuff tying into future or past events in the Doctor's life outside of this story, This one had the Doctor plan and carry out and figure out everything on his own, just like the show generally should.

[Thufir]

Regarding the identity of the Architect, it was pretty much inevitable from a meta point of view.

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The Doctor's role in the show is to be basically the most intelligent person in the universe. Planning a bank heist, particularly on supposedly the most secure bank in the universe, is something which clearly requires a high level of intelligence, so to have the heist planned by anyone other than the Doctor would be a waste, in narrative terms. The only other possibility I considered was Karabraxos, since owning the bank would obviously provide some relevant specialist knowledge which would be helpful in robbing it.

[Kato]

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The Teller's victims were kept around as a warning to other not to mess about with the bank (note the constant video feed of the victims), much like the heads of traitors mounted on spikes at gates and bridges.

The Teller is much like a zombie in the sense that it's relentless. Once it's got hold of you, the psychic pressure immobilises you though (see Saira and Clara).

I think both Tellers are intelligent enough to be happy with just each other rather than worry about the extinction of the species. With regard to the earlier comment of their now preying on the local sapient population, the Doctor may have brought them back to the home planet where they have an ecological niche.

With regard to the TARDIS translation circuits failing, the Teller would have to make an attempt at saying something, right? A telepathic species probably wouldn't have any need for verbal forms of communication thus a threatening roar is untranslatable as it's not actually saying anything.

Short answers in order:
Ah, must have missed that completely. Or forgotten.
Yes, but only in a narrow-ish range. can't be too hard to keep it running in circles it seemed to me. But narrative, bla.
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Didn't the TARDIS translate psychic communication at some point earlier? Maybe that's my imagination, or some non-canon instance.

The Doctor's role in the show is to be basically the most intelligent person in the universe.

I'm sorry but I always feel this is such a poor take on the story. Why does he need to be the most intelligent being in the story? That's like saying any hero in another medium also needs to be the strongest or whatever. Is pure superiority the defining trait of a main character now? I don't see why he would need to be the most intelligent, even if you could define such a thing easily.

The only other possibility I considered [...]

Yeah, thought about that, too.

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Like a security test or something

[Thufir]

I'm sorry but I always feel this is such a poor take on the story. Why does he need to be the most intelligent being in the story? That's like saying any hero in another medium also needs to be the strongest or whatever. Is pure superiority the defining trait of a main character now? I don't see why he would need to be the most intelligent, even if you could define such a thing easily.

Pure superiority is not the defining trait of main characters in general. It's all specific to particular stories. But the Doctor is (probably) the most intelligent being in his own universe. That's the way the show has been written for decades. It's not his only defining trait (another would be his aversion to classic weaponry, which handily forces him to make more use of that massive brain of his), but it is one of his defining traits. He's a genius with a couple of millennia's experience of travelling through time solving problems using his wits and his intellect; and the show is telling the stories of him doing that, so yes, that is his role on the show.

[Calemyr]

Pure superiority is not the defining trait of main characters in general. It's all specific to particular stories. But the Doctor is (probably) the most intelligent being in his own universe. That's the way the show has been written for decades. It's not his only defining trait (another would be his aversion to classic weaponry, which handily forces him to make more use of that massive brain of his), but it is one of his defining traits. He's a genius with a couple of millennia's experience of travelling through time solving problems using his wits and his intellect; and the show is telling the stories of him doing that, so yes, that is his role on the show.

Spoiler: My favorite line of Time Heist

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How do you like my new look? I was going "Minimalist" but I think it came out "Magician".

[jedipotter]

My Review:

Spoiler: Time Heist

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This was a pretty bad episode. Sure the name ''Time Heist'' sounds cool, and it sounds like a great idea to have brake into a bank(maybe someone over there in England watched The Bank Job)....but then it just goes down hill from there.

So what was the basic plot? Did the Doctor want to save the two rip off Gran slaves? For no reason! Did the Doctor want to give Ms. Karabraxos a chance at some redemption? For no reason! Or did the Doctor really want to help the two folks that got booted out of the Almost Human House?

Spoiler: Slavery/Save the Race RANT

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Really? for no reason the Doctor wanted to save the two discount Gran slaves? Why, oh, Why? At any point, all over the universe plus all over time, there are one thousand zillion zillion or so slaves. And the Doctor does not care about any of them? If he is so against slavery, well why not save some of the other trillion slaves?

And, ok, so if he wanted to save Adam Gran and Eve Gran as they were the last of their race...well, again, why just them. With billions of races dying across time and space...what makes them so special?

It's just so pointless to show the Doctor caring about slavery and races becoming extinct when he does nothing about the other trillion trillion ones. Like how many people were enslaved while the Doctor wrote ''listen'' like an idiot on his board? How many races died while he ran around like an idiot looking for his ''perfect hider''.

Spoiler: Redemption RANT

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Why, why, why does the Doctor care about the dumb banker lady? If he was just ''randomly picking people from time and space'', why could he not pick a better person? What makes her so special? She is an evil, mass murderer...so why does she get a chance? How about the other Zillion people who could really use the chance. Why do they get ignored.

And sure, you can make a claim that even the Evil Banker Lady ''deserves'' a chance at redemption, if you kinda want to say ''everyone should get a chance''. But...really? She only destroys countless lives and does countless evil acts....and can still lay on her death bed and say ''oh sorry, forgive me''. Like the week before she foreclosed on a couple planets and killed countless people...but, oh, no, this week she is dying, lets feel pity for her. Really?

Ok, so the Doctor decides not to just use the TARDIS and will break into the bank another, harder way.
And, yet again, Where and When was the bank? It was not in 2014, right?

So the Doctor will pretend he needs help...and hires...two criminals? Psi and Saibra were criminals, right? They sure readily agreed to rob a bank. Guess this makes the Doctor and Clara criminals too...right?


The whole memory worms were pointless, and made no sense. The ''Architect'' was silly and pointless....even if you though that he might be a cool character, the show simply did not have enough time for him to come in anyway....

And the story just falls apart....just way too many pointless plot holes. And it is hard to get into a story for no reason. ''The Doctor is robbing a Bank because....because...it's episode 5!'' just does not work. It works so much better when characters have a reason and motivation behind them.

And then they break in...and oh, no they are going to get caught and killed. Not that we care about nobody hacker and the shapeshifter anyway. They were such Red Shirts. And, lucky, they find the....atomic distengrators. Better to die that way, then go down the 'soup' way.....I guess. And oh no, red shirts one and two die...boo hoo...not that I remembered their names anyway. But they had quick deaths...and when you don't see a body, you need to suspect they will come back somehow. So the ''distingratiors are teleporters'' was not a shock...just a yawn.

And then everything works out....hooray! Two people we don't know and don't care about get their wishes granted. Hooray! The Gran are free...um...hooray! The Doctor robbed a bank...but not really...hooray!

This could have been so better.....just give the Doctor a reason to rob the bank. Like the back had The Gallifraian Hope White Star Diamond. Or the Tea Cup of Rassilion. Or a TARDIS key....

No Missy. Wonder if the Gran were going to the Promised Land?


Things That Don't Make Sense:

Ok.....so...for no real reason the Doctor wants to steal two things from this bank and free the Garn. So...why does he just not do it? Sure on Monday at 3pm there was a solar storm...but, er, what about you know...the rest of time?

So why the memory wipe? What good did it do? The Doctor got everyone together and they all siad they would rob the bank...and then everyone touched a memory worm? Why? When they went to the bank they still knew they were going to rob it.

And if the Doctor was the architect of the whole scam....they why did he erase his memory? Or was he just pretending not to know....

So where is Psi from? The same time frame as the bank? Why does all his technology look so 1990's? Why does he have a USB cable plug......USB really?

So why does the greatest bank in the galaxy...in the future? have like Earth 2000 type security? Like them little video camera balls? The same ones you see at the mall(but not banks)....or do banks in the UK use the mall camera security?

Is there some reason why the greatest bank in the galaxy does not have intruder alert sensors? Or even motion sensors? Heat sensors? Eye beams? Tripwires? Bells on strings? Guard patrols? How about just locking things like the air vent covers....or even welding them shut?

So the ''Teller'' can detect crime? So...er..why does it eat the little guy in the suit? Was he doing a crime? They kinda made it sound like the Teller was picking up the bank robbing group. Was he? So why did he pick the little suit guy to eat? Did he see the plan to free him and his mate and then cover for it?

So why the fake bomb? Why did everyone except the Doctor think it was a bomb? Did not anyone think the bank might notice the huge ''KA-BooM'' that would like destroy walls and floors and people and such?

Why did the Architect leave things around to find? Why not just give them everything at the meeting?
And how did the Doctoras the Architect get all that stuff into the bank...with his TARDIS, right?

So dozens of levels in the bank maze...and they have to go past the Tellers Cage?

Were the memory doo dad and the bottle of goo for Psi and Saibra like really super rare? Or super expensive? Kinda convenient the Bank had them...

So the plan was to rob the bank just as the solar storm hit...to open the vault the Doctor could have just TARDIS passed any time he felt like it?

The bank vault is far underground? But the storm still hits and effects it? Wonder why it was not shielded?

So why does the Doctor hate himself? That story along would have made a better episode...

So how does the Doctor give Ms. Karabraxos the TARDIS phone number so that she would call right before Carla's date in 2014? Did the number have a time code too? So like you dial the number and it will always call ''right before the Carla's date''?

And exactly what phone does Ms. Karabraxos call on? Is the TARDIS on the Verizion net work? Can you dial the TARDIS number into any phone? Does the number..um...call the TARDIS across time and space? If so, how? So Ms. Karabraxos called from like the year 3000 back to 2014, to tell the Doctor to go back/forward to 2940 and rob the bank? What?

So...did Ms. Karabraxos survive the first solar storm....the one where there was no bank heist? Is this a Time Loop?


Did not Bank-World have any astronomers?

Was just the bank destroyed, or was it the whole planet? Do, yet again, hundreds and maybe thousands die, as the Doctor does nothing? Or was all the mass Death ''meant to be''?

So Adam and Eve Garn get to live happily ever after? On an empty planet? Don't they eat thoughts? What will they eat, each others thoughts?

And so....Adam and Eve Garn will live for a while and have a kid or two or three? then the kids will marry each other and have more kids and more and more and repopulate the race? Er....

Or did the Doctor take them back to 100,000 BC when more of their kind existed?

Where and when does he drop of the other bank robbers?

So was the mind link between Adam Garn and Ms. Karabraxos disconnected? Or would she still know that Adam is still alive?

[theNater]

My Review:

Big response to jedipotter. Whole thing is in spoilers for reasons of both spoilers and size.

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This was a pretty bad episode. Sure the name ''Time Heist'' sounds cool, and it sounds like a great idea to have brake into a bank(maybe someone over there in England watched The Bank Job)....but then it just goes down hill from there.

So what was the basic plot? Did the Doctor want to save the two rip off Gran slaves? For no reason! Did the Doctor want to give Ms. Karabraxos a chance at some redemption? For no reason! Or did the Doctor really want to help the two folks that got booted out of the Almost Human House?

Spoiler: Slavery/Save the Race RANT

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Really? for no reason the Doctor wanted to save the two discount Gran slaves? Why, oh, Why? At any point, all over the universe plus all over time, there are one thousand zillion zillion or so slaves. And the Doctor does not care about any of them? If he is so against slavery, well why not save some of the other trillion slaves?

And, ok, so if he wanted to save Adam Gran and Eve Gran as they were the last of their race...well, again, why just them. With billions of races dying across time and space...what makes them so special?

It's just so pointless to show the Doctor caring about slavery and races becoming extinct when he does nothing about the other trillion trillion ones. Like how many people were enslaved while the Doctor wrote ''listen'' like an idiot on his board? How many races died while he ran around like an idiot looking for his ''perfect hider''.

Spoiler: Redemption RANT

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Why, why, why does the Doctor care about the dumb banker lady? If he was just ''randomly picking people from time and space'', why could he not pick a better person? What makes her so special? She is an evil, mass murderer...so why does she get a chance? How about the other Zillion people who could really use the chance. Why do they get ignored.

And sure, you can make a claim that even the Evil Banker Lady ''deserves'' a chance at redemption, if you kinda want to say ''everyone should get a chance''. But...really? She only destroys countless lives and does countless evil acts....and can still lay on her death bed and say ''oh sorry, forgive me''. Like the week before she foreclosed on a couple planets and killed countless people...but, oh, no, this week she is dying, lets feel pity for her. Really?

The episode entitled "The Beast Below" answers all these questions pretty well. The Doctor, on some level, thinks of himself as just an observer. So he's wandering around randomly. He is emphatically not looking for people to save. But he's a huge softy. When he sees someone who needs help, he feels compelled to help them. Regardless of who they are. It is painful for him when he can't(see "Fires of Pompeii" and "Waters of Mars"). It is never anything more or less than "this person needs my help, and I can help them". He bumped into five people who needed his help one way or another, and he tried to help them all. Note also that he's happy to give Davros and the Master shots at redemption, and Karabraxos is really small fry compared to them.

Guess this makes the Doctor and Clara criminals too...right?

I'm really not sure why this surprises you. The Doctor has probably trespassed more times than most people have breathed, just for starters.

Ok.....so...for no real reason the Doctor wants to steal two things from this bank and free the Garn. So...why does he just not do it? Sure on Monday at 3pm there was a solar storm...but, er, what about you know...the rest of time?

So the plan was to rob the bank just as the solar storm hit...to open the vault the Doctor could have just TARDIS passed any time he felt like it?

Karabraxos was living in the vault. He needed to be there when she was leaving, so she wouldn't stop him. Her fleeing the solar storm was the best opening.

So why the memory wipe? What good did it do? The Doctor got everyone together and they all siad they would rob the bank...and then everyone touched a memory worm? Why? When they went to the bank they still knew they were going to rob it.

And if the Doctor was the architect of the whole scam....they why did he erase his memory? Or was he just pretending not to know....

He needed not to know it was him doing it until it was over. Crossing one's own time stream is dangerous; keeping himself out of the loop makes it far less so.

So where is Psi from? The same time frame as the bank? Why does all his technology look so 1990's? Why does he have a USB cable plug......USB really?

So why does the greatest bank in the galaxy...in the future? have like Earth 2000 type security? Like them little video camera balls? The same ones you see at the mall(but not banks)....or do banks in the UK use the mall camera security?

Styles cycle. 1990's stuff is retro in the distant future.

Is there some reason why the greatest bank in the galaxy does not have intruder alert sensors? Or even motion sensors? Heat sensors? Eye beams? Tripwires? Bells on strings? Guard patrols? How about just locking things like the air vent covers....or even welding them shut?

So the ''Teller'' can detect crime? So...er..why does it eat the little guy in the suit? Was he doing a crime? They kinda made it sound like the Teller was picking up the bank robbing group. Was he? So why did he pick the little suit guy to eat? Did he see the plan to free him and his mate and then cover for it?

The Teller can detect guilt. It renders other types of security redundant(and it's not efficient to maintain those things when you don't need to). The suit guy felt guilty about something, but we never find out what.

So why the fake bomb? Why did everyone except the Doctor think it was a bomb? Did not anyone think the bank might notice the huge ''KA-BooM'' that would like destroy walls and floors and people and such?

Everyone including the Doctor thought it was a bomb. Either they believed that the soundproofing on the room they were in would obscure the noise, or that they'd be in a big, big hurry after it went off. Note that they had good reason to believe it wouldn't destroy the entire room, much less multiple walls and floors, because that would kill all of them, rendering the heist unsuccessful.

Why did the Architect leave things around to find? Why not just give them everything at the meeting?

Because they wouldn't know when to use what. And telling them that would leave too many clues, resulting in the Doctor figuring things out too soon.

And how did the Doctoras the Architect get all that stuff into the bank...with his TARDIS, right?

Were the memory doo dad and the bottle of goo for Psi and Saibra like really super rare? Or super expensive? Kinda convenient the Bank had them...

Given all the things the Doctor was dropping off with the TARDIS, it's plausible he dropped those off too.

So dozens of levels in the bank maze...and they have to go past the Tellers Cage?

Apparently.

The bank vault is far underground? But the storm still hits and effects it? Wonder why it was not shielded?

Sometimes stellar events are big enough that there is no practical shielding. Apparently this storm was one such event.

So why does the Doctor hate himself? That story along would have made a better episode...

For all the people he couldn't save. For all the people he's had to kill. For all the people he's turned into killers. "A Good Man Goes to War" makes a few points along these lines, if you're interested.

So how does the Doctor give Ms. Karabraxos the TARDIS phone number so that she would call right before Carla's date in 2014? Did the number have a time code too? So like you dial the number and it will always call ''right before the Carla's date''?

And exactly what phone does Ms. Karabraxos call on? Is the TARDIS on the Verizion net work? Can you dial the TARDIS number into any phone? Does the number..um...call the TARDIS across time and space? If so, how? So Ms. Karabraxos called from like the year 3000 back to 2014, to tell the Doctor to go back/forward to 2940 and rob the bank? What?

The TARDIS can detect phone calls from anywhere and anywhen(there may be some maximum range, but she's been in range of pretty much every location in spacetime at some point or another), and direct them to the Doctor at the point she judges most appropriate.

So...did Ms. Karabraxos survive the first solar storm....the one where there was no bank heist? Is this a Time Loop?

Sure looked like a Time Loop to me.

Did not Bank-World have any astronomers?

Was just the bank destroyed, or was it the whole planet? Do, yet again, hundreds and maybe thousands die, as the Doctor does nothing? Or was all the mass Death ''meant to be''?

No evidence, but I'm going to assume the astronomers caught on to it just in time to evacuate everybody. I'm happiest that way.

So Adam and Eve Garn get to live happily ever after? On an empty planet? Don't they eat thoughts? What will they eat, each others thoughts?

And so....Adam and Eve Garn will live for a while and have a kid or two or three? then the kids will marry each other and have more kids and more and more and repopulate the race? Er....

Or did the Doctor take them back to 100,000 BC when more of their kind existed?

He dropped them off on an empty planet, where there is some kind of alternate food source(note that the bank was probably not smuggling a supply of criminals into the Vault to feed the female, presumably she was getting nutrition some other way). They get to live the remainder of their lifespan together, and that's the end of the species. Melancholy, a bit, but not the worst way for a species to go out.

Where and when does he drop of the other bank robbers?

He probably didn't let them into the TARDIS; but he could drop them off anywhere the escape ship he had in orbit could reach. Heck, he might give it to them. He's not likely to need it again any time soon.
Thufir made a good point, which requires updating this. My new answer is: Pretty much whenever and wherever they wanted, so long as they weren't overlapping their own timelines.

So was the mind link between Adam Garn and Ms. Karabraxos disconnected? Or would she still know that Adam is still alive?

It was disconnected. The Doctor mentions this as one factor that lets the Teller restore his memory instead of gooping his brain.

[Eldan]

There was also one Bond Villain mistake, but I can forgive that one.

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Karabraxos has everyone guilty finished off by the Teller. But once she has the Doctor and Clara caught, she just shrugs, takes the Teller with her and tells the guards to do it, then leaves. If she had been consistent, they'd be braindead at that point.

[turkishproverb]

So far this and Robot of Sherwood are by far the best episodes of the season. And frankly, I enjoyed not being "shown" the first heist. The story didn't need it.

[Thufir]

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He probably didn't let them into the TARDIS;

Just one point:

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Without actually going back and checking on iplayer, I'm 95% certain we actually saw them on the TARDIS, chatting. The Doctor told a joke, everybody laughed, and then we moved onto the goodbyes, with Psi's "If you ever need to rob another bank..." and Saibra hugging the Doctor and pointing out that she didn't turn into him. And he said he kind of missed it. Scratch what I said before, 99% certain.